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XXXXgizzieXXXX - 25 Oct 2003 04:53 GMT Some of you may remember I posted that my mom's 26 year old Yellow Naped Amazon was operated on in June to remove a mass on his wing, and the biopsy showed a type of cancer. Well, we took him back today and there is no sign of regrowth, in fact, the vet questioned me "It was THIS side, wasn't it?" We will check every four months or so, but she seemed to think there would be signs at the surgery site if it was going to regrow.
She also showed me how to hold the bird by the neck, with the fingers wrapped around the back of the neck and the thumb up high, under the beak. I've handled big birds for years, but have always confined them with a towel and held them by the bony part of the back skull. I was surprised by how strong the birds neck felt, although I do not buy into her comment of "you can't break a parrots neck". The bird DID stop struggling once I had a firm hold on him, though, and I've seen other birds do the same-- maybe they sense that that is a vulnerable position. It certainly felt diffrent than the head-hold, but I'm not sure I'll trust myself to do it on my own--she held the bird while I wrapped my hand into position, I'm kinda thinking the bird would not be so cooperative on his own :) Still, it was an interesting lesson.
XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
Joanne - 25 Oct 2003 06:08 GMT > Some of you may remember I posted that my mom's 26 year old > Yellow Naped Amazon was operated on in June to remove a mass on his [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX That was a great report. Now the bird has a chance at a long and healthy life because you and your mom care so much about him.
My groomers use the hold you are describing. It looks so effortless and the bird seems to have complete head freedom, yet they have him firmly under control. They always use a sacrificial towel for the bird to wreck, but the fingers encircling the neck very loosely really works.
 Signature Sincerely, Joanne
If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!
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XXXXgizzieXXXX - 25 Oct 2003 17:26 GMT > That was a great report. Now the bird has a chance at a long and healthy > life because you and your mom care so much about him. Thi si the same vet the rea us the rio tact about his diet--she started again, as he'd dropped some weight "but not enough", and my mom started to argue with her about what the bird will (fruit) and will not (vegetables) eat. 'till I gently nudged her with my foot, as I nodded my head like a good little patient. We also got a lecture on perches and foot sores, to which I also nod, nod, nodded and tapped my mom's foot when she went "Yeah, but--" Our cages are ALL equipped with one Pastel Polly, one square Comfort Perch and two natural gnarled branches tnat I roptate on a monthly basis. Foot problems, my a.s. I will take the bird again for a close incision-site exam in a year or so, but not to this vet, I just did not like her "I Am The AAAAAAYYYYvian Vet" attitude. I think it was the obviously canned "You must convert to our pellets" speil that got me right off the bat.
> My groomers use the hold you are describing. It looks so effortless "looks" being the key word, there.
>They always use a sacrificial towel for the bird to wreck, but the > fingers encircling the neck very loosely really works. Actually, the fingers are not loose, I think that it is just that the fingers are out-of-sight to us not doing the holding, because they are under the feathers, so it does not look like what it actually is--you have the bird BY THE NECK--it is the position under the chin that gives you the control and leverage, and again, I wa amazed at how STRONG and muscular his neck felt. She had me move my fingers up and **tighten** twice before she let go, and I was still, as an expeienced "handler", terrified. This great and personable pet bird is NOT, however, **tame**, and took a goodly chunk out of my index finger in June, when I first saw the lump on his wing and opened the cage door to investigate--he actually *attacked** me. It was interesting getting him out of the cage yesterday, I just let him grab a towel and dragged him out onto the floor, trrying to direct him into the carrier. I was able to "shoo" him in, but in the meantime, he rolled over on his back once, and was laughing and excite-screaming and doing his loud "NYYEEH-NYEHHH-NYEH-NYEH NYEHHH!!!" He was NOT pissed or scared when I shut the door, his eyes were dilating like crazy and he screamed "bye BYE Aaron!!!" and laughed and laughed. I think it was great fun for him (of course, he WON) He also never shtu up all the way to the vet's in the car and entertained the waiting room, especially when this woman let her un-confined cat walk over and look in the carrier, Aaron went "uh-Uh-UHHH, no BITE!!!"and I told the lady, "You better grab that cat fast, he's going to bite her", just as the bird struck and LAUGHED and laughed. This guy waiting thought I was throwing my voice. When we got home, I just opened the carrier door and put it on the door of the cage, by then, he was more than glad to be going home--but I think he gave me the finger on the way past....
XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
gcarr - 25 Oct 2003 21:26 GMT > > That was a great report. Now the bird has a chance at a long and > healthy [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > I think it was the obviously canned "You must convert to our pellets" > speil that got me right off the bat. On foot problems:
While *most* foot problems are caused by bad perches or Vit. A defiency, not all are. I have a old (mid 20s) male cockatiel who has a constant case of grade 2 bumble foot (thin skin). When I got him he had grade 3 (open sore) bumble foot. I strongly suspect his foot problems are age-related rather then environmental or dietary. Aloe vera applied topically and flax seed oil in his fresh foods seems to help a bit, but at this point I suspect this problem will never actually go away. 26 might be a bit young for an Amazon to have this problem, but it is something to consider.
And that is good news about the tumor. I've had a bad experience with a dog and cancer, so its good to hear about an animal that made it.
Gloria
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 26 Oct 2003 02:19 GMT > And that is good news about the tumor. I've had a bad experience with a dog > and cancer, so its good to hear about an animal that made it. I've already lost one Yellow Nape to cancer, and my Cockatoo had part of one wing amputated in '83 because of it. I think three cases of avian cancer in one persons life time is enough, thank you.
XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 26 Oct 2003 02:22 GMT > Grasp the medicine syringe. Try to stop trembling in fear and pain. BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!!
> http://www.nd.edu/~kkiessel/toweling.html Hey, check out that perch. Anyone have experience with that type of wood product? I saw a toy made out of it in Pet Supplies Plus, but it looked so soft, I thought I may as well hand the bird a $20 bill to chew up and save the labor. In the same vein, anyone try those **rubber** hide-a-peanut toys?? I'm thinking as easily as my SC2 chewed through the leather thong I hung wooden blocks on, that rubber would be no contest. I did, however, buy the heavy plastic block withthe holes in it and rope pieces inside, he's been worrying at that for two days now. I sat the other night and watched him **weave** a piece of the thong in and out the door frame--he is so smart, he scares me.
XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
gcarr - 26 Oct 2003 18:35 GMT > > Grasp the medicine syringe. Try to stop trembling in fear and pain. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Hey, check out that perch. Anyone have experience with that type > of wood product? Its cactus, sometimes called Cholla. And yes, it is pretty soft. There's a grooming perch out there called a Nature Zone, that pours the mineral supplement in to the cactus. The pads of the bird's feet stand on the wood, while the mineral wears down their nails. The mineral core makes it harder for the bird to distroy. Personally I prefer the Nature Zone perch to the concret ones as it is better on the feet.
Gloria
I saw a toy made out of it in Pet Supplies Plus, but
> it looked so soft, I thought I may as well hand the bird a $20 bill to > chew up and save the labor. In the same vein, anyone try those [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > piece of the thong in and out the door frame--he is so smart, he > scares me. LOL, cockatoos are that way aren't they? I used to work in a pet bird store so I'm pretty familiar with all these products. IMO the rubber-hid-a-treat toys are mostly for the African Grey sized birds. If you wanted to get one for your SC2 then you might want to check out a dog Kong. I think it is cheaper. The Kongs also come in a tougher rubber for dogs that *really* chew, so that might hold up longer against your SC2. Other then that, hidding treats in a paper bag or rolled up newspaper twisted through the bars of the cage is a cheap way to enrich them.
Gloria
Wheeler - 26 Oct 2003 19:13 GMT The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too.
Bob W
-- Check out our web site, A few new features and new pictures. http://www.onemorebird.com/
> If you wanted to get one > for your SC2 then you might want to check out a dog Kong. I think it is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Gloria Joanne - 26 Oct 2003 19:43 GMT > The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > A few new features and new pictures. > http://www.onemorebird.com/ Bob, try "Bowling Ball on a Chain".
 Signature Sincerely, Joanne
If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!
Play - http://www.jobird.com Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm Looking for Love? - http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm
Alex Clayton - 26 Oct 2003 20:51 GMT > > The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too. > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Bob, try "Bowling Ball on a Chain". Anvil might be better.
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 27 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT "Joanne" <Joanne@jobirdnest.com> wrote in message news:gBUmb.3020
> Bob, try "Bowling Ball on a Chain". Is that rubber??
I'm afraid of chains, too--I usually rethread toys on a link-free dog chain. I did not transfeer this preenign toy yet, and I'm just wsaiting to come home and find Willie hanging by his foot with a toe caught in a link.
 Signature XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
Alex Clayton - 26 Oct 2003 20:51 GMT LOL, you should send it back with a note saying "look what my pet did in
:30. What kind of crap do you people make"? I could just see the people there passing it around and saying "DAMN, wonder what kind of dog this guy has"?
> The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > A few new features and new pictures. > http://www.onemorebird.com/ XXXXgizzieXXXX - 27 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT > The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too. As I suspedcted.
This new toy I have is called "Power Preen", by "Smart Toys" and is not [lastic, but "bird-tuff nylon". He's really worrying at it and in a few days,has managed to shred some of the rope inserts out, but not destroy it. It is refillable, too. I'm hopoing this will be The Magic Toy.
 Signature XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 27 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT "gcarr" <gcarr@cybcon.com> wrote in message
> Its cactus, sometimes called Cholla. And yes, it is pretty soft. There's a > grooming perch out there called a Nature Zone, that pours the mineral > supplement in to the cactus. I saw that--I also saw a toy that looked like a large circle with a soft-core center, that is the one tha looked like it would be sawdust in ten minutes.
 Signature XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
Mamabird - 25 Oct 2003 16:13 GMT > Some of you may remember I posted that my mom's 26 year old > Yellow Naped Amazon was operated on in June to remove a mass on his [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > bird would not be so cooperative on his own :) Still, it was an > interesting lesson. Thanks for the update, gizzie ... I'm so glad things are looking good for your mom's birdie! I'm trying to picture the technique for restraining a bird that your vet showed you but I don't quite "get it." I'm about to embark on yet another 10 day Flagyl treatment for my birds' Giardia and I'd sure like to use an easier method than the towel method I've always used. It's so stressful for them... and for me. Not looking forward to it!
Anyway, I hope you continue to keep us informed about your mom's bird's progress....
 Signature Mama ~^~^~^~ Visit Mamabird's Nest: <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> And My Photo Albums at: <http://photos.yahoo.com/iluvbirdz> ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
Toucanldy - 25 Oct 2003 17:21 GMT >From: "Mamabird" spam_@goaway.com
>I'm trying to picture the technique for restraining a bird that your vet >showed you but I don't quite "get it." >I'm about to embark on yet another 10 day Flagyl treatment for my birds' >Giardia and I'd sure like to use an easier method than the towel method >I've always used. It's so stressful for them... and for me. Not looking >forward to it! I'm sure that this has been posted before, but here it is again. MEDICATING PARROTS (Humor) by Garry J. Wallan
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Occasionally, we find it necessary to medicate our feathered friends. Here are some pointers to help you with this task.
FIRST APPLICATION:
Retrieve the bird from the cage. Set the bird on a table and hold its head by carefully grasping the neck where it joins the lower jaw, or mandible. With your other hand, grasp the medicine syringe and place the tip into the left side of the bird's mouth. Depress the plunger and squirt the medicine toward the back of the bird's throat. Wipe excess medicine from the bird's beak. Place the bird back in the cage.
SUBSEQUENT APPLICATIONS:
Attempt to retrieve the bird from the cage. Apply bandages as necessary to wounds on your hands and arms. Retrieve the bird from its new hiding place under the coffee table. Carefully immobilize the bird's head to prevent further tissue damage to your body. Attempt to break the "Vulcan Death Grip" and remove the bird's feet from your hand. Apply more bandages and a strong analgesic cream to the new wounds on your hands and arms. Immobilize the bird by carefully wrapping it in a bath towel. Watch in amazement as the bird "morphs." Its head and tail will probably swap position, putting your tender flesh in mortal danger again. Hold the bird snugly in its terrycloth prison. Grasp the medicine syringe. Try to stop trembling in fear and pain. Place the tip of the syringe into the left side of the bird's mouth. Ignore the crushed tip. Depress the plunger and squirt the medicine toward the back of the bird's throat. Wipe excess medicine out of your eyes and off the drapes. Release the bird and squirt medicine in the general vicinity of its face. Some medicine may actually go into the mouth. The rest will be absorbed by osmosis. Shoo the bird back to the cage. Spend the rest of the day attempting to regain the bird's affection with yummy snacks and new toys.
A more serious site. TOWELING by Bill Kiesselbach http://www.nd.edu/~kkiessel/toweling.html
Regards
Mamabird - 26 Oct 2003 01:36 GMT > Occasionally, we find it necessary to medicate our feathered friends. Here are > some pointers to help you with this task. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Spend the rest of the day attempting to regain the bird's affection with yummy > snacks and new toys. Hilarious!! But I guarantee I won't be laughing while I'm going through it!! :-/ It took me a few days, but I finally worked out a system that cut "medication time" from an hour twice a day to about 20 minutes. Still not easy though.... I hope this time will be the *last* time...
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Cruisetech - 26 Oct 2003 01:53 GMT Sounded like you had seen my most recent episode of MToo vs "The Evil Medicine Syringe of Death", lucky to get away with all ten fingers, until the little twirp figured out he LIKED the taste of the antibiotic!!!
> > Occasionally, we find it necessary to medicate our feathered friends. > Here are [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > "medication time" from an hour twice a day to about 20 minutes. Still not > easy though.... I hope this time will be the *last* time... thehouse@pooh.corner - 28 Oct 2003 02:18 GMT "Toucanldy" <toucanldy@aol.com> wrote in message
><(((*> news:20031025122109.28298.00000048@mb-m27.aol.com... ><(((*> > ><(((*> > Occasionally, we find it necessary to medicate our feathered friends. ><(((*> Here are ><(((*> > some pointers to help you with this task. Sure wish I'd read this *before* I spent 4 weeks giving Jester his meds! Maybe then I would have known what I was getting into.
These pointers are hilarious, mostly because they're so true.
Tara J. Ballance Montreal, Canada
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 25 Oct 2003 17:26 GMT > Thanks for the update, gizzie ... I'm so glad things are looking good for > your mom's birdie! > I'm trying to picture the technique for restraining a bird that your vet > showed you but I don't quite "get it." Practice on a tame bird--I was doing it to Katie, my CAG, last ngiht and she thought it was great fun. You literally wrap your fingers around the neck , with the thumb "on top" (I'm holding my hand up--see??), under the chin. The vet said "If they still struggle, push up and back"--you literally lift the chin **up** with your thumb. I wish I could show you, it was not nearly as hard as it looked--and it would have been easier yet if my knees weren't knocking at the time... :)
> I'm about to embark on yet another 10 day Flagyl treatment for my birds' > Giardia and I'd sure like to use an easier method than the towel method > I've always used. It's so stressful for them... and for me. It's still stressful for them. Aaron was WAY more wuiet afte the appoimtment than before, like he had the starch knocked out of him. I'm thinking the neck wrap is "easier" , once you can do it, because you do not have allll that towel material getting in the way--although I still think the towel is better for confinement, especailly if you have to do stuff by yourself, as it keep their body from flopping around--you only have two hands and if one is around the bird's throat and one is holding the legs....
> Anyway, I hope you continue to keep us informed about your mom's bird's > progress.... Will do. Meantime, I am curious about this "Flagal treatment" and how you diagnosed Giardia. As this has no doubt been covered here, feel free to write me off-list.
XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
Mamabird - 26 Oct 2003 04:01 GMT > > Thanks for the update, gizzie ... I'm so glad things are looking > good for [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > from flopping around--you only have two hands and if one is around the > bird's throat and one is holding the legs.... Thanks for the lesson, but I don't have anyone to help me so I'm better off with the tried and true towel method. Once I have them wrapped 'papoose style' I wedge them tight against my chest to keep the towel in place, hold their head with left hand and (hopefully) squirt the meds into the beak with my right hand. The little birds are a piece of cake. The big birds are a challenge!
> > Anyway, I hope you continue to keep us informed about your mom's > bird's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > how you diagnosed Giardia. As this has no doubt been covered here, > feel free to write me off-list. I became very ill and was diagnosed with Giardia the end of July. The emergency room Dr. and my family Dr. both suspected the birds and/or house dogs were the source of my infection. My vet agreed and we started a regimen of flagyl. The dogs were cured with their first 10 day treatment. Me and the birds haven't been so lucky. I treated the birds for 10 days in Aug. Unfortunately it didn't get rid of it completely (still had symptoms). Their second treatment in Sept. had to be aborted halfway through because I got sick again and wasn't able to medicate them. I finished my third Flagyl treatment Oct. 8th and am feeling good so hopefully this time I'm cured. The birds have to be treated again because of the unfinished second treatment and because the Dr. is concerned if we don't get them cleared up I'll just keep getting it back from them. The cycle has to end somewhere. I have the Flagyl to treat them but my digital scale quit working and the vet wants me to weigh them again in case their dosage needs adjusting. So I ordered a new scale, should be here this coming week, then the fun starts.... 16 birds, twice a day, for 10 days. Yay. Our so-called "avian" vet told us the birds had PDD (we lost 3 of them). Had he bothered to do proper tests we might have been able to save the birds that died. In researching Giardia and talking to my vet that's treating the birds now, the symptoms of PDD and Giardia are nearly identical. I had just accepted the first vet's PDD diagnosis because we DID have 3 birds die of PDD about 10 years ago and, like I said, the symptoms are very much alike. I've also read that PDD can stay in the environment and infect birds months or years later. But at least now we know what we're REALLY dealing with and hopefully can restore all 16 to good health (Not all of them have symptoms but all have to be treated as they might be asymptomatic and/or carriers).
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XXXXgizzieXXXX - 27 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT > I became very ill and was diagnosed with Giardia the end of July. The > emergency room Dr. and my family Dr. both suspected the birds and/or house > dogs were the source of my infection. My mom had Giardia a few years back, and they never did ascertain how she got it. Sheomly has the one bird and no dogs, and wa workign in a Day Care center at the time. No one else was infected.
What's PDD?
 Signature XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
Mamabird - 27 Oct 2003 03:53 GMT > > I became very ill and was diagnosed with Giardia the end of July. > The [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > What's PDD? There's TONS of info online. Do a google search on PDD (proventricular dilatation disease.) EVERY bird owner should be informed about this deadly disease and all bird diseases as they need to be aware of the symptoms.
 Signature Mama ~^~^~^~ Visit Mamabird's Nest: <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> And My Photo Albums at: <http://photos.yahoo.com/iluvbirdz> ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~
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