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Pet Forum / Birds / Birds / October 2003



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XXXXgizzieXXXX - 25 Oct 2003 04:53 GMT
    Some of you may remember I posted that my mom's 26 year old
Yellow Naped Amazon was operated on in June to remove a  mass on his
wing, and the biopsy showed a type of cancer. Well, we took him back
today and there is no sign of
regrowth, in fact, the vet questioned me "It was THIS side, wasn't
it?"  We will check every four months or so, but she seemed to think
there would be signs at the surgery site if it was going to regrow.

   She also showed me how to hold the bird by the neck, with the
fingers wrapped around the back of the neck and the thumb  up high,
under the beak.  I've handled big birds for years, but have always
confined them with a towel and held them by the bony part of the back
skull.  I was surprised by how strong the birds neck felt, although I
do not  buy into her comment of "you can't break a parrots neck".  The
bird DID stop struggling once I had a firm hold on him, though, and
I've seen other birds do the same-- maybe they sense that that is a
vulnerable   position.  It certainly felt diffrent than the head-hold,
but I'm not sure I'll trust myself to do it on my own--she held the
bird while I wrapped my hand into position, I'm kinda thinking the
bird would not be so cooperative on his own :)  Still, it was an
interesting lesson.

         XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
Joanne - 25 Oct 2003 06:08 GMT
>      Some of you may remember I posted that my mom's 26 year old
> Yellow Naped Amazon was operated on in June to remove a  mass on his
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
>           XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX

That was a great report.  Now the bird has a chance at a long and healthy
life because you and your mom care so much about him.

My groomers use the hold you are describing.  It looks so effortless and the
bird seems to have complete head freedom, yet they have him firmly under
control.  They always use a sacrificial towel for the bird to wreck, but the
fingers encircling the neck very loosely really works.

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Joanne

If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!

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XXXXgizzieXXXX - 25 Oct 2003 17:26 GMT
> That was a great report.  Now the bird has a chance at a long and healthy
> life because you and your mom care so much about him.

 Thi si the same vet the rea us the rio tact about his diet--she
started again, as he'd dropped some weight "but not enough", and my
mom started to argue with her about what the bird will (fruit) and
will not (vegetables) eat. 'till I gently nudged her with my foot, as
I nodded my head like a good little patient. We also got a lecture on
perches and
foot sores, to which I also nod, nod, nodded and  tapped my mom's foot
when she went
"Yeah, but--"  Our cages are ALL equipped with one Pastel Polly, one
square Comfort Perch and  two natural gnarled branches tnat I roptate
on a monthly basis.  Foot problems, my a.s.  I will take the bird
again for a close incision-site exam in a year or so, but not to this
vet, I just did not like her "I Am The AAAAAAYYYYvian  Vet" attitude.
I think it was the obviously canned "You must convert to our pellets"
speil that got me right off the bat.

> My groomers use the hold you are describing.  It looks so effortless

  "looks" being the key word, there.

>They always use a sacrificial towel for the bird to wreck, but the
> fingers encircling the neck very loosely really works.

  Actually, the fingers are not loose, I think that it is just that
the fingers  are out-of-sight to us not doing the holding, because
they are under the feathers, so it does not look like what it actually
is--you have the bird BY THE NECK--it is the position under the chin
that gives you the control and leverage, and again, I wa amazed at how
STRONG and muscular  his neck felt. She had me move my fingers up and
**tighten** twice before she let go, and I was still, as an expeienced
"handler", terrified.  This great and  personable pet bird is NOT,
however, **tame**, and took a goodly chunk out of my index finger in
June, when I first saw the lump on his wing and opened the cage door
to investigate--he actually *attacked** me.  It was interesting
getting him out of the cage yesterday, I just let him grab a towel and
dragged him out onto the floor, trrying to direct him into the
carrier.  I was able to "shoo" him in, but in the meantime, he rolled
over on his back once, and was laughing and excite-screaming and doing
his loud "NYYEEH-NYEHHH-NYEH-NYEH  NYEHHH!!!" He was NOT pissed or
scared when I shut the door, his eyes were dilating like crazy and he
screamed "bye BYE Aaron!!!" and laughed and laughed.  I think  it was
great fun for him (of course, he WON)  He also never shtu up all the
way to the vet's in the car and   entertained the waiting room,
especially when this
woman let her un-confined cat walk over and look in the carrier, Aaron
went "uh-Uh-UHHH, no BITE!!!"and I told the lady, "You better grab
that cat fast, he's going to bite her", just as the bird struck and
LAUGHED and laughed.   This guy waiting thought I was throwing my
voice.  When we got home, I just opened the carrier door and put it on
the door of the cage, by then, he was more than glad to be going
home--but I think he gave me the finger on the way past....

            XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
gcarr - 25 Oct 2003 21:26 GMT
> > That was a great report.  Now the bird has a chance at a long and
> healthy
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> I think it was the obviously canned "You must convert to our pellets"
> speil that got me right off the bat.

On foot problems:

While *most* foot problems are caused by bad perches or Vit. A defiency, not
all are. I have a old (mid 20s) male cockatiel who has a constant case of
grade 2 bumble foot (thin skin). When I got him he had grade 3 (open sore)
bumble foot. I strongly suspect his foot problems are age-related rather
then environmental or dietary. Aloe vera applied topically and flax seed oil
in his fresh foods seems to help a bit, but at this point I suspect this
problem will never actually go away. 26 might be a bit young for an Amazon
to have this problem, but it is something to consider.

And that is good news about the tumor. I've had a bad experience with a dog
and cancer, so its good to hear about an animal that made it.

Gloria
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 26 Oct 2003 02:19 GMT
> And that is good news about the tumor. I've had a bad experience with a dog
> and cancer, so its good to hear about an animal that made it.

  I've already  lost one Yellow Nape to cancer, and my Cockatoo had
part of one wing amputated in '83 because of it.  I think three cases
of avian cancer in one persons life time is enough, thank you.

        XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 26 Oct 2003 02:22 GMT
> Grasp the medicine syringe. Try to stop trembling in fear and pain.

  BWAHAHAHAHAA!!!!

> http://www.nd.edu/~kkiessel/toweling.html

  Hey, check out that perch.  Anyone have experience with that type
of wood product?  I saw a toy made out of it in Pet Supplies Plus, but
it looked so soft, I thought I may as well hand the bird a $20 bill to
chew up  and save the labor.  In the same vein, anyone try those
**rubber**  hide-a-peanut toys??   I'm thinking as easily  as my SC2
chewed through the leather thong I hung wooden blocks on, that rubber
would be no contest.  I did, however, buy the  heavy plastic block
withthe holes in it and rope pieces inside, he's been worrying at that
for two days now.   I sat the other night and watched him **weave** a
piece of the thong in and out the  door frame--he is so smart, he
scares me.

           XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
gcarr - 26 Oct 2003 18:35 GMT
> > Grasp the medicine syringe. Try to stop trembling in fear and pain.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>    Hey, check out that perch.  Anyone have experience with that type
> of wood product?

Its cactus, sometimes called Cholla. And yes, it is pretty soft. There's a
grooming perch out there called a Nature Zone, that pours the mineral
supplement in to the cactus. The pads of the bird's feet stand on the wood,
while the mineral wears down their nails. The mineral core makes it harder
for the bird to distroy. Personally I prefer the Nature Zone perch to the
concret ones as it is better on the feet.

Gloria

I saw a toy made out of it in Pet Supplies Plus, but
> it looked so soft, I thought I may as well hand the bird a $20 bill to
> chew up  and save the labor.  In the same vein, anyone try those
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> piece of the thong in and out the  door frame--he is so smart, he
> scares me.

LOL, cockatoos are that way aren't they? I used to work in a pet bird store
so I'm pretty familiar with all these products. IMO the rubber-hid-a-treat
toys are mostly for the African Grey sized birds. If you wanted to get one
for your SC2 then you might want to check out a dog Kong. I think it is
cheaper. The Kongs also come in a tougher rubber for dogs that *really*
chew, so that might hold up longer against your SC2. Other then that,
hidding treats in a paper bag or rolled up newspaper twisted through the
bars of the cage is a cheap way to enrich them.

Gloria
Wheeler - 26 Oct 2003 19:13 GMT
The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too.

Bob W

--
Check out our web site,
A few new features and new pictures.
http://www.onemorebird.com/

> If you wanted to get one
> for your SC2 then you might want to check out a dog Kong. I think it is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Gloria
Joanne - 26 Oct 2003 19:43 GMT
> The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> A few new features and new pictures.
> http://www.onemorebird.com/

Bob, try "Bowling Ball on a Chain".

Signature

Sincerely,
Joanne

If it's right for you, then it's right, . . . . . for you!!!

Play - http://www.jobird.com
Pay for Play - http://www.jobird.com/refund.htm
Looking for Love? - http://www.jobird.com/hearts.htm

Alex Clayton - 26 Oct 2003 20:51 GMT
> > The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Bob, try "Bowling Ball on a Chain".

Anvil might be better.
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 27 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT
"Joanne" <Joanne@jobirdnest.com> wrote in message news:gBUmb.3020
> Bob, try "Bowling Ball on a Chain".

  Is that rubber??

   I'm afraid of chains, too--I usually rethread toys on a link-free
dog chain.  I did not transfeer this preenign toy yet, and I'm just
wsaiting to come home and find Willie hanging by his foot with a toe
caught in a link.

Signature

  XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX

Alex Clayton - 26 Oct 2003 20:51 GMT
LOL, you should send it back with a note saying "look what my pet did in
:30. What kind of crap do you people make"? I could just see the people
there passing it around and saying "DAMN, wonder what kind of dog this guy
has"?

> The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> A few new features and new pictures.
> http://www.onemorebird.com/
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 27 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT
> The super Kong lasted under thirty minutes with my M-Too.

  As I suspedcted.

  This new toy I have is called "Power Preen", by "Smart Toys" and is
not [lastic, but "bird-tuff nylon".  He's really worrying at it and in
a few days,has managed to shred some of the rope inserts out, but not
destroy it.  It is refillable, too. I'm hopoing this will be The Magic
Toy.

Signature

  XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX

XXXXgizzieXXXX - 27 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT
"gcarr" <gcarr@cybcon.com> wrote in message
> Its cactus, sometimes called Cholla. And yes, it is pretty soft. There's a
> grooming perch out there called a Nature Zone, that pours the mineral
> supplement in to the cactus.

  I saw that--I also saw a toy that looked like a large circle with a
soft-core center, that is the one tha looked like it would be sawdust
in ten minutes.

Signature

  XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX

Mamabird - 25 Oct 2003 16:13 GMT
>      Some of you may remember I posted that my mom's 26 year old
> Yellow Naped Amazon was operated on in June to remove a  mass on his
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> bird would not be so cooperative on his own :)  Still, it was an
> interesting lesson.

Thanks for the update, gizzie ... I'm so glad things are looking good for
your mom's birdie!
I'm trying to picture the technique for restraining a bird that your vet
showed you but I don't quite "get it."
I'm about to embark on yet another 10 day Flagyl treatment for my birds'
Giardia and I'd sure like to use an easier method than the towel method
I've always used. It's so stressful for them... and for me. Not looking
forward to it!

Anyway, I hope you continue to keep us informed about your mom's bird's
progress....
Signature

 Mama
~^~^~^~   Visit Mamabird's Nest: <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> And My
Photo Albums at: <http://photos.yahoo.com/iluvbirdz>
~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~

Toucanldy - 25 Oct 2003 17:21 GMT
>From: "Mamabird" spam_@goaway.com

>I'm trying to picture the technique for restraining a bird that your vet
>showed you but I don't quite "get it."
>I'm about to embark on yet another 10 day Flagyl treatment for my birds'
>Giardia and I'd sure like to use an easier method than the towel method
>I've always used. It's so stressful for them... and for me. Not looking
>forward to it!

I'm sure that this has been posted before, but here it is again.
MEDICATING PARROTS (Humor)
by Garry J. Wallan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------

Occasionally, we find it necessary to medicate our feathered friends. Here are
some pointers to help you with this task.

FIRST APPLICATION:

Retrieve the bird from the cage.
Set the bird on a table and hold its head by carefully grasping the neck where
it joins the lower jaw, or mandible.
With your other hand, grasp the medicine syringe and place the tip into the
left side of the bird's mouth.
Depress the plunger and squirt the medicine toward the back of the bird's
throat.
Wipe excess medicine from the bird's beak.
Place the bird back in the cage.

SUBSEQUENT APPLICATIONS:

Attempt to retrieve the bird from the cage.
Apply bandages as necessary to wounds on your hands and arms.
Retrieve the bird from its new hiding place under the coffee table.
Carefully immobilize the bird's head to prevent further tissue damage to your
body.
Attempt to break the "Vulcan Death Grip" and remove the bird's feet from your
hand.
Apply more bandages and a strong analgesic cream to the new wounds on your
hands and arms.
Immobilize the bird by carefully wrapping it in a bath towel.
Watch in amazement as the bird "morphs." Its head and tail will probably swap
position, putting your tender flesh in mortal danger again.
Hold the bird snugly in its terrycloth prison.
Grasp the medicine syringe. Try to stop trembling in fear and pain. Place the
tip of the syringe into the left side of the bird's mouth.
Ignore the crushed tip. Depress the plunger and squirt the medicine toward the
back of the bird's throat.
Wipe excess medicine out of your eyes and off the drapes.
Release the bird and squirt medicine in the general vicinity of its face. Some
medicine may actually go into the mouth. The rest will be absorbed by osmosis.
Shoo the bird back to the cage.
Spend the rest of the day attempting to regain the bird's affection with yummy
snacks and new toys.

A more serious site.
TOWELING
by Bill Kiesselbach
http://www.nd.edu/~kkiessel/toweling.html

Regards
Mamabird - 26 Oct 2003 01:36 GMT
> Occasionally, we find it necessary to medicate our feathered friends. Here are
> some pointers to help you with this task.
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> Spend the rest of the day attempting to regain the bird's affection with yummy
> snacks and new toys.

Hilarious!! But I guarantee I won't be laughing while I'm going through
it!!  :-/
It took me a few days, but I finally worked out a system that cut
"medication time" from an hour twice a day to about 20 minutes. Still not
easy though.... I hope this time will be the *last* time...
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 Mama
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Cruisetech - 26 Oct 2003 01:53 GMT
Sounded like you had seen my most recent episode of MToo vs "The Evil
Medicine Syringe of Death", lucky to get away with all ten fingers, until
the little twirp figured out he LIKED the taste of the antibiotic!!!

> > Occasionally, we find it necessary to medicate our feathered friends.
> Here are
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> "medication time" from an hour twice a day to about 20 minutes. Still not
> easy though.... I hope this time will be the *last* time...
thehouse@pooh.corner - 28 Oct 2003 02:18 GMT
"Toucanldy" <toucanldy@aol.com> wrote in message
><(((*> news:20031025122109.28298.00000048@mb-m27.aol.com...
><(((*> >
><(((*> > Occasionally, we find it necessary to medicate our feathered friends.
><(((*> Here are
><(((*> > some pointers to help you with this task.

Sure wish I'd read this *before* I spent 4 weeks giving Jester
his meds! Maybe then I would have known what I was getting into.

These pointers are hilarious, mostly because they're so true.

Tara J. Ballance
Montreal, Canada
XXXXgizzieXXXX - 25 Oct 2003 17:26 GMT
> Thanks for the update, gizzie ... I'm so glad things are looking good for
> your mom's birdie!
> I'm trying to picture the technique for restraining a bird that your vet
> showed you but I don't quite "get it."

     Practice on a tame bird--I was doing it to Katie, my CAG, last
ngiht and she thought it was great fun.  You literally wrap your
fingers around the neck , with the thumb "on top"
(I'm holding my hand up--see??), under the chin.  The vet said "If
they still  struggle, push up and back"--you literally lift the chin
**up** with your thumb. I wish I could show you, it was not nearly as
hard as it looked--and it would have been easier  yet if my knees
weren't  knocking at the time... :)

> I'm about to embark on yet another 10 day Flagyl treatment for my birds'
> Giardia and I'd sure like to use an easier method than the towel method
> I've always used. It's so stressful for them... and for me.

  It's still stressful for them.  Aaron was WAY more wuiet afte the
appoimtment than before, like he had the starch knocked out of him.
I'm  thinking  the neck wrap is  "easier" , once you can do it,
because you do not have allll that towel material getting in the
way--although I still think the towel is better for confinement,
especailly if you have to do stuff by yourself, as it keep their body
from flopping around--you only have two hands and if one is around the
bird's  throat and one is holding the legs....

> Anyway, I hope you continue to keep us informed about your mom's bird's
> progress....

  Will do.  Meantime, I am curious about this "Flagal treatment" and
how you diagnosed Giardia.  As this has no doubt been covered here,
feel free to write me off-list.

  XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX
Mamabird - 26 Oct 2003 04:01 GMT
> > Thanks for the update, gizzie ... I'm so glad things are looking
> good for
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> from flopping around--you only have two hands and if one is around the
> bird's  throat and one is holding the legs....

Thanks for the lesson, but I don't have anyone to help me so I'm better off
with the tried and true towel method. Once I have them wrapped 'papoose
style' I wedge them tight against my chest to keep the towel in place, hold
their head with left hand and (hopefully) squirt the meds into the beak
with my right hand.
The little birds are a piece of cake. The big birds are a challenge!

> > Anyway, I hope you continue to keep us informed about your mom's
> bird's
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> how you diagnosed Giardia.  As this has no doubt been covered here,
> feel free to write me off-list.

I became very ill and was diagnosed with Giardia the end of July. The
emergency room Dr. and my family Dr. both suspected the birds and/or house
dogs were the source of my infection. My vet agreed and we started a
regimen of flagyl.
The dogs were cured with their first 10 day treatment. Me and the birds
haven't been so lucky.
I treated the birds for 10 days in Aug. Unfortunately it didn't get rid of
it completely (still had symptoms). Their second treatment in Sept. had to
be aborted halfway through because I got sick again and wasn't able to
medicate them.
I finished my third Flagyl treatment Oct. 8th and am feeling good so
hopefully this time I'm cured. The birds have to be treated again because
of the unfinished second treatment and because the Dr. is concerned if we
don't get them cleared up I'll just keep getting it back from them. The
cycle has to end somewhere.
I have the Flagyl to treat them but my digital scale quit working and the
vet wants me to weigh them again in case their dosage needs adjusting. So I
ordered a new scale, should be here this coming week, then the fun
starts.... 16 birds, twice a day, for 10 days. Yay.
Our so-called "avian" vet told us the birds had PDD (we lost 3 of them).
Had he bothered to do proper tests we might have been able to save the
birds that died. In researching Giardia and talking to my vet that's
treating the birds now, the symptoms of PDD and Giardia are nearly
identical. I had just accepted the first vet's PDD diagnosis because we DID
have 3 birds die of PDD about 10 years ago and, like I said, the symptoms
are very much alike. I've also read that PDD can stay in the environment
and infect birds months or years later.
But at least now we know what we're REALLY dealing with and hopefully can
restore all 16 to good health (Not all of them have symptoms but all have
to be treated as they might be asymptomatic and/or carriers).
Signature

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XXXXgizzieXXXX - 27 Oct 2003 01:54 GMT
> I became very ill and was diagnosed with Giardia the end of July. The
> emergency room Dr. and my family Dr. both suspected the birds and/or house
> dogs were the source of my infection.

  My mom had Giardia a few years back, and they never did ascertain
how she got it.
Sheomly has the one bird and no dogs, and wa workign in a Day Care
center at the time.  No one else was infected.

  What's PDD?

Signature

  XXXXXXgizzieXXXXXX

Mamabird - 27 Oct 2003 03:53 GMT
> > I became very ill and was diagnosed with Giardia the end of July.
> The
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>    What's PDD?

There's TONS of info online. Do a google search on PDD (proventricular
dilatation disease.) EVERY bird owner should be informed about this deadly
disease and all bird diseases as they need to be aware of the symptoms.
Signature

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~^~^~^~   Visit Mamabird's Nest: <http://iluvbirds.tripod.com/> And My
Photo Albums at: <http://photos.yahoo.com/iluvbirdz>
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