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Pet Forum / Birds / Birds / March 2004Legal qustion about keeping a parrot
We brought a Nanday Conure small parrot (weight 150 grams) some 6 months ago, legally into Canada. The bird flew through the window into our apartment while staying in Miami. Today, we are very much, attached to this lovely intelligent bird, and it adopted us perfectly. We live in a condominium building in Toronto for the last 13 years and never had any quarrel with neighbours, on the contrary we have here lots of good friends. A few days ago I received from the management a printed matter i.e. "Condominium Bylaws & Rule" in which the following sentence appears: "No animal shall be allowed or kept in or about any unit or common element." Could anyone in this esteemed group enlighten me if I can get successfully around this law with or without judicial help? Thanks you very much for any help! Kurt > We brought a Nanday Conure small parrot (weight 150 grams) some 6 months ago, > legally into Canada. The bird flew through the window into our apartment while [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Could anyone in this esteemed group enlighten me if I can get successfully > around this law with or without judicial help? Did the management give you this list of bylaws and rules because of your bird, or was just a routine distribution? In other words, do they know you're keeping a pet? If the management doesn't know about your bird, the best thing to do is nothing. If they do know about it and are asking you to remove it, then do so. Find a friend or relative to take care of it for a few days (or maybe just one day, if the management wants to schedule a specific day to come in and verify it's been removed). Then bring it back home the following day. At least from my experience, most managers won't hassle residents about pets, even if pets aren't allowed in a complex, unless they're receiving complaints. Conures can be loud, and it's possible one of your neighbors is complaining to management without your knowlege. Rick Dear Rick, Thank you so much indeed, I can feel a heavy stone starts rolling off my chest! I will follow exactly what you suggest. With the very hope that it will work, it might sound silly, but the bond between our conure and us is rather unbelievably strong. I would have never believed that before we before we brought the bird home. All the best to you, Kurt > > We brought a Nanday Conure small parrot (weight 150 grams) some 6 months ago, > > legally into Canada. The bird flew through the window into our apartment while [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Rick Actually, landlords can and do evict tenants that have pets when it is not allowed. It happened to me with my cat. Turned out the cat was much better company than my room mates were, so it worked out for me. Laurie > > At least from my experience, most managers won't hassle > > residents about pets, even if pets aren't allowed in a complex, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > allowed. It happened to me with my cat. Turned out the cat was much better > company than my room mates were, so it worked out for me. :-) If anything good has come from the horrible economy here in my part of CA, it's that some property managers and owners are easing up on these stupid no-pet policies. In the place we're in now, they said it was ok to keep birds, even though it's still written in the lease that no pets are allowed. They even took an extra $200 deposit for our birds before we moved in. Rick > > > At least from my experience, most managers won't hassle > > > residents about pets, even if pets aren't allowed in a complex, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Rick Yeah, they're trying to attract those potential home buyers to start renting again. That's a good thing for us bird nuts, eh? L >>>> At least from my experience, most managers won't hassle >>>> residents about pets, even if pets aren't allowed in a complex, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > L Aye... I rent and have for years. I paid a $150 pet fee when I moved in 7 years ago and $10 a month. This includes my cat and whether or not I have multiple birds. That would be, as long as I'm not turning a room into an aviary, I suppose, although they haven't checked LOL Plus, the management takes care of everything including trash pickup, replacing broken appliances, the carpet when the water heater leaked last year and when the dishwasher crapped out they replaced the disposal, too. I have a full sized washer and dryer in a nice 1100 sq. ft. apartment with a huge fenced patio... but, unfortunately, no flocks of wild parrots at my feeders. (sigh) Jill > Aye... I rent and have for years. I paid a $150 pet fee when I moved in 7 > years ago and $10 a month. This includes my cat and whether or not I have [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Jill Well, you can always move to FL and move in with Marco, Chuck and I. Yikes! 3 cats, a dog, and all those birds?!?!?! What a gas! > > Aye... I rent and have for years. I paid a $150 pet fee when I moved in 7 > > years ago and $10 a month. This includes my cat and whether or not I have [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Well, you can always move to FL and move in with Marco, Chuck and I. Yikes! > 3 cats, a dog, and all those birds?!?!?! What a gas! I just hope there will be enough room for when *I* move over with my menagerie :0) Folks, I don't live in California - but I've always been advised that small caged animals and birds are not "pets". Only dogs and cats are - and often not cats. A bird isn't even an animal. Animals are mammalian. I wouldn't hurt to consult a tenants' rights group or service in your city. -- Yours, Dora Smith Austin, Texas villandra@austin.rr.com > > "Laurie" <whowhat@where.com> wrote in message > news:Ymb2c.21092$yZ1.19555@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net... [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > L > Folks, I don't live in California - but I've always been advised that small > caged animals and birds are not "pets". Only dogs and cats are - and often [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I wouldn't hurt to consult a tenants' rights group or service in your city. Mammals are one of the six main classes of animals. Rick > Yours, > Dora Smith [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > > > L > A bird isn't even an animal. Animals are mammalian. Biology 101??? a parrot, a fish, a snake, a lobster, a bee, a monkey.... they're all animals.  Signature=-Marco-= Parrots are Loud Parrots are Messy Parrots are Expensive Parrots are Needy Parrots are Wild Animals ************* Parrots are NOT toys Parrots are NOT decorations Parrots are NOT easy to keep Parrots can be a pain in the a.s! >Folks, I don't live in California - but I've always been advised that small >caged animals and birds are not "pets". Only dogs and cats are - and often [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I wouldn't hurt to consult a tenants' rights group or service in your city. It's a condo, not an apartment. He's not a tenant, but a co-owner. X-No-Archive: yes >A few days ago I received from the management a printed matter i.e. >"Condominium Bylaws & Rule" in which the following sentence appears: "No animal >shall be allowed or kept in or about any unit or common element." Is that a new law that wasn't in place when you bought your condo? I wouldn't lie about the fact that you have the bird if that bylaw was in the contract/lease you originally signed. If it's a new law, you may have some sort of legal recourse, but I'm not a lawyer so can't help you with that. Becky >> A few days ago I received from the management a printed matter i.e. >> "Condominium Bylaws & Rule" in which the following sentence appears: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > not a lawyer so can't help you with that. > Becky I have a real problem with owning my dwelling and having someone else, bylaws or not, telling me I can or cannot have a pet. That's like saying I can't paint my house purple if I so choose. Hell, I bought the place. It's one thing if you are keeping flocks of birds which might be disturbing the neighbors. Or having cats which are allowed to wander all over, or dogs doing their 'business' in the neighbors yards. It's quite another if you own the place, keep the peace, don't let your parrot disturb people and then they start harrassing you with what would seem to be 'new' bylaws. I'd do what was suggested by Rick: "If the management doesn't know about your bird, the best thing to do is nothing." Might be just the requisite annual flier in the mailbox. IIRC, if there is a real complaint about your conure, they are required to specifically send you a letter telling you so, not put a generalized "note" in your mailbox. If you are really so concerned, contact an attorney. Most will consult with you over the phone for nothing, at least here in the U.S. Canada mileage may vary :) Good luck! Jill > >> A few days ago I received from the management a printed matter i.e. > >> "Condominium Bylaws & Rule" in which the following sentence appears: [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > bylaws or not, telling me I can or cannot have a pet. That's like saying I > can't paint my house purple if I so choose. Hell, I bought the place. This isn't the case with condos. Condo associations can place restrictions on what one can do with their own property, including whether one can keep pets in it, or paint it purple. Or paint it at all. It really is a silly concept. If I wanted to deal with this kind of nonsense I'd just assume rent an apartment. Rick >>>> A few days ago I received from the management a printed matter i.e. >>>> "Condominium Bylaws & Rule" in which the following sentence [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Rick BUT, the bylaws should state that on the front end and not be presented as a "oh, here you go" flier in the mailbox. My parents live on an island which has an association... the rules to build were, keep it natural wood, shades of brown, green... no purple houses... until the really rich folks started moving in and building pink stucco mansions. Then suddenly the rules went out the window. Funny how that happens. Jill Yup, there are housing entities that are rather medieval. Condominiums are one. M.U.D.'s are another. M.U.D.'s are some kind of substandard Texas municipality that exists for the sake of providing no services, but rather telling residents how to live. I don't know if it's really confined to Texas, but here land isn't necessarily organized into townships so if no village or city then the county government is all there is - and in Texas county governments really aren't worth much. On consulting an attorney, in many American cities the local bar associations have programs where you can consult with an attorney for $20 for a half hour or something. But I'd seriously check with tenants' rights groups - they're more likely to have the knowledge. -- Yours, Dora Smith Austin, Texas villandra@austin.rr.com > > >> A few days ago I received from the management a printed matter i.e. > > >> "Condominium Bylaws & Rule" in which the following sentence appears: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Rick >Yup, there are housing entities that are rather medieval. Condominiums are >one. M.U.D.'s are another. M.U.D.'s are some kind of substandard Texas [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >for a half hour or something. But I'd seriously check with tenants' rights >groups - they're more likely to have the knowledge. He's not a tenant, but a co-owner! X-No-Archive: yes >On consulting an attorney, in many American cities the local bar >associations have programs where you can consult with an attorney for $20 >for a half hour or something. But I'd seriously check with tenants' rights >groups - they're more likely to have the knowledge. If there was a "no pets" clause when he bought the condo, and he signed the contract containing the "no pets" clause, then why would he think he can have a pet? Others in the building signed that contract with the assurance that there would be no pets in the building. If, however, it's a new ordinance, he may have a case. As for the comment that a cat isn't even considered a pet.....???? >>On consulting an attorney, in many American cities the local bar >>associations have programs where you can consult with an attorney for $20 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >think he can have a pet? Others in the building signed that contract >with the assurance that there would be no pets in the building. It's not a clause. It's a by-law. When a person makes an offer to purchase a condo they are given a copy of the by-laws. Mine was literally an inch thick. >If, however, it's a new ordinance, he may have a case. The Board of Directors doesn't just arbitrarily pass new by-laws. Something like this would be put up to a vote of all the co-owners. If you had an "animal" they would be grandfathered in. There is no he "might have a case." >As for the comment that a cat isn't even considered a pet.....???? X-No-Archive: yes >The Board of Directors doesn't just arbitrarily pass new by-laws. >Something like this would be put up to a vote of all the co-owners. >If you had an "animal" they would be grandfathered in. There is no he >"might have a case." I didn't see the OP mention anything about the pet being grandfathered in. It sounded as though it was a notice about not having pets, period. Would be nice to know if that "by-law" was in the original contract, and if so, why send out notices at this point? I've never lived in a condo so don't completely understand how they do things. Becky Hi Jill, Thanks for your interest and advice. Rick's suggestions are super, as long as nobody complains. In addition, those who complain are individuals that do not hear the bird. Some good and serious low obeying neighbours.... :=) I think I will hire a lawyer, a bird loving of course! Kurt > We brought a Nanday Conure small parrot (weight 150 grams) some 6 months ago, > legally into Canada. The bird flew through the window into our apartment while [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks you very much for any help! Parrots are not "neighbor friendly". You're cute little ball of feathers can be extremly obnoxios to a neighor who's trying to sleep. One good solution is to buy your own home on at least 5 acres of property, preferably with trees and hedges to block the noise. My nearest neighbor is 100 yards from me with the side of a small mountain between us, yet she can easily hear my macaws in the morning. I can easily hear the dogs of another neighbor 400 yards away at night We live with it and no one complains, at least not to the authorities. As far a legality, if you've already violated the terms of your agreement your landlord may already have grounds for eviction. Pressing the issue legally is probably unwise. Your best bet is to get on friendly enough terms with your neighbors that they won't report you even if they are annoyed by the bird. That may not be possible. -- Lou Boyd >> We brought a Nanday Conure small parrot (weight 150 grams) some 6 >> months ago, legally into Canada. (snip) >> A few days ago I received from the management a printed matter i.e. >> "Condominium Bylaws & Rule" in which the following sentence appears: >> "No animal shall be allowed or kept in or about any unit or common >> element." Parrots are not "neighbor friendly". You're cute little ball of > feathers can be extremly obnoxios to a neighor who's trying to sleep. > One good solution is to buy your own home on at least 5 acres of > property, preferably with trees and hedges to block the noise. (snip) Oh, allow me to say, bullshit. I live in an apartment and I *never* hear my neighbors dog, nor her television, nor her phone, nor her having sex. She likewise never hears my chirping lovebird, nor my meowing cat, nor me having sex. Not that we, as neighbors sharing a wall, don't do all of those things! ROFL The only issue at hand is whether or not the condo association is trying to institute new rules, just hand out reminders or whatever. IMO, if they have specific complaints about her bird they need to approach her with a specific complaint, not a mailbox flier. And there is no need to move to a 5 acre plot of land to have one bird... that's simply a ridiculous request. Jill Hearing the bird may depend on where it's kept also. We live two streets over from a house that has birds. Not sure what type exactly, but I know that some are outside and they aren't all small birds. I primarily hear one and I hear it in my house doors closed and all, mostly at night too. It kind of sounds like a screaching monkey, if that makes sense. Anyhow, I could see if that type of noise was being made in an apartment it would make some pretty cranky. > >> We brought a Nanday Conure small parrot (weight 150 grams) some 6 > >> months ago, legally into Canada. (snip) [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Jill > Hearing the bird may depend on where it's kept also. We live two > streets over from a house that has birds. Not sure what type > exactly, but I know that some are outside *Outside* being the operative word. The OP is referring to a conure which is a relatively small parrot, kept indoors. and they aren't all small > birds. I primarily hear one and I hear it in my house doors closed > and all, mostly at night too. It kind of sounds like a screaching > monkey, if that makes sense. Anyhow, I could see if that type of > noise was being made in an apartment it would make some pretty cranky. But you know what? I live in an apartment but have neighbors down the street in houses who raise chickens. I hear the roosters crowing early in the morning. I think it's rather charming. Doesn't disturb me in the least. In fact, when we had a terrible storm last July and I lost power for a week, those roosters were what told me to get up and get ready for work at 5:00 a.m. :) Of course, we had no power at work either, but the phone systems were knocked out for miles around too so I had to get up and drive to the office just to find out if we were 'open'. Thank god for the roosters. Jill >>>> We brought a Nanday Conure small parrot (weight 150 grams) some 6 >>>> months ago, legally into Canada. (snip) [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> >> Jill Urisom <urisom@aol.com> says... > We brought a Nanday Conure small parrot (weight 150 grams) some 6 months ago, > legally into Canada. The bird flew through the window into our apartment while [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Could anyone in this esteemed group enlighten me if I can get successfully > around this law with or without judicial help? Condo bylaws and rules aren't arbitrary. They exist to promote a good quality of life for all residents. Why do you feel you're entitled to an exemption? Jack Signature*Top-posters are generally ignored* aka Keet Visit my webpage at http://junior.apk.net/~jac/ "Always proofread to see if you any words." At risk of being kicked off newsnet - Why do you think YOU'RE entitled to have a bird? Honestly, I don't believe somebody had the nerve to say something like this! Perhaps you and our inquirer could switch residences. It sounds like you're cut out for hers. -- Yours, Dora Smith Austin, Texas villandra@austin.rr.com > Condo bylaws and rules aren't arbitrary. They exist to promote a good > quality of life for all residents. Why do you feel you're entitled to an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -- |
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