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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Cichlids / February 2005Yellow Labs - Behavior Question
I have been raising red zebra's with success for years now, recently started Yellow Lab 29g tank. I ordered them online so was not able pick sexes. Ended up with 3 males and 3 females. Very unactive fish. They all seem to sit in nitches under the rocky boulder-like landscape, occasionally changing positions. Sometimes just sit next to each other. No aggression yet, is this normal behavior for Labs? Temp 82, PH 8.2, Salinity 1.008? I know I have the wrong food, have normal OSI Chichlid flakes, will be introducing Spirulina Flakes exclusivly this afternoon for a couple weeks. Fish were added 1 week ago, is this inactivity their norm, or do I have a setting wrong? >I have been raising red zebra's with success for years now, recently >started Yellow Lab 29g tank. I ordered them online so was not able pick [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >for a couple weeks. Fish were added 1 week ago, is this inactivity their >norm, or do I have a setting wrong? I think their behaviour is not that unusual given their short time in a change of environment. I would expect to see an increase in activity level as they acclimate to the water, the tank's surroundings and movements and shadows outside of the tank. They might always have a lower activity level than your more gregarious Zebras though. Note that dietarily, these fish are omnivores, unlike your Zebras.  Signaturewww.NetMax.tk >I have been raising red zebra's with success for years now, recently started >Yellow Lab 29g tank. I ordered them online so was not able pick sexes. Ended [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Flakes exclusivly this afternoon for a couple weeks. Fish were added 1 week >ago, is this inactivity their norm, or do I have a setting wrong? Your tank is too warm. Lower the temp to 77 very slowly. Salinity 1.008? Lake Malawi is not salty (as NaCl) so why are you adding salt? Common Labidochromis are the main exception to usual Mbuna diet. Yellow Labs are micropredators so give them a general flake rather than spirulina. Treat them to clean live food occasionally. Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software SignatureEasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks. http://www.easynn.com >>I have been raising red zebra's with success for years now, recently >>started [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software I was apparently given bad info far as salinity level, how hard should water be for Labs? The water should have high PH & be very hard. Hardness is not a measure of salinity. Its a measure of GH & KH. That being said. Yellow labs purchased in most LFS now are acclimated to local water already & can live happily & breed easily with no added help. You can add some salts to the water it does help keep them healthy just don't over do it. Oh yeah & as NEtmax said they are omnivores. They need meet & veggie. SignatureCraig ________________________________ www.CanadianCray.tk www.Bluecrayfish.com > >>>I have been raising red zebra's with success for years now, recently [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > I was apparently given bad info far as salinity level, how hard should > water be for Labs? >The water should have high PH & be very hard. Nope, that's wrong. Lake Malawi is not hard and it's only moderately alkaline. It is often assume that it is the same as lake Tanganika but it isn't. Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software SignatureEasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks. http://www.easynn.com > On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:20:11 -0500, "CanadianCray" >>The water should have high PH & be very hard. Source? just about anything I've read sofar disputes this? I'd very much like to know if I'm mistaken :) /tommi >> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:20:11 -0500, "CanadianCray" > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > /tommi you are mistaken http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1669 Temperature: 78 - 82°F pH: 7.8 - 8.6 Water Hardness: Very Hard SignatureBe sure to check out http://home.satx.rr.com/satxcichlids for information on my fishies! also, sign up for a *FREE* ipod here: http://www.freeiPods.com/default.aspx?referer=9570045 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/daewootech/ http://groups.yahoo.com/group/daewoolanos/ http://www.geocities.com/daewoolanoshatchback/ contact info: agentsmith@UNDIES.the-c0re.tk agentsmith2011@UNDIES.punkass.com remove UNDIES to reply :D > you are mistaken > http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1669 > Temperature: 78 - 82°F > pH: 7.8 - 8.6 > Water Hardness: Very Hard Misquoted, that's what I've seen in just about any article or other read material so far. Steve says otherwise, and I'd like to know on what he bases this. /Tommmi >> you are mistaken >> http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1669 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >material so far. Steve says otherwise, and I'd like to know on what he >bases this. By sampling the water in which the fishes were shipped from Lake Malawi. The exporter said that it was unprocessed lake water. I think all the recent papers just quote from: "Talling, J.F., and I.B. Talling. 1965. The chemical composition of African lake waters. Internationale Revue der Gesamte Hydrobiologie 50 (3): 421-463." Their paper is multiple site sampling. It's not specific to where most of the aquarium fish live. Most of the coastal region are not particularly hard water but there are some areas where the water is hard. SignatureSteve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks. http://www.easynn.com >> On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:20:11 -0500, "CanadianCray" > >>>The water should have high PH & be very hard. >Source? just about anything I've read sofar disputes this? I'd very much >like to know if I'm mistaken :) You misquoted me. I said it was wrong. Malawi is slightly alkaline but it is not very hard. SignatureSteve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks. http://www.easynn.com >>>On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 11:20:11 -0500, "CanadianCray" >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You misquoted me. Very true, for that I apologize, but the question still stand. look e.g. at the other response to my post and the article it mentions, another example of wrong assumptions if you are correct. > I said it was wrong. which was why I asked "source?". > Malawi is slightly alkaline but it is not very hard. /Tommi <snip> >> I said it was wrong. > which was why I asked "source?". > > /Tommi One of my pet peeves is people quoting websites as their main source of information. As much as I enjoy reading the Cichlid-Forum and respect Marc and Eric, just because it's written in an article on their site doesn't make it right. With that said. Sources for hardness. One must remember that pH and hardness is not the same everywhere on the lake. Water will be lower in pH and softer where rivers flow into the lakes. According to Ad Konings in Malawi Cichlids 2nd edition, pH in Lake Malawi is between 7.8 and 8.5. He does mention that the conductivity in Lake Malawi (a measure of of mineral content) is relatively low when compared to the other lakes in the Rift Valley at 200-260 microSiemens. The only mention he makes of general hardness is that is should be maintained above three degrees to help maintain the pH. He also mentions the importance of dissolved oxygen. In "A Fishkeeper's Guide to African Cichlids" by Paul Loiselle, he puts total hardness of Lake Tanganyika at 10-12 degrees and Lake Malawi he comments is less mineralized with a general hardness of 6-10 degrees. I wouldn't say it was soft, but I would not agree with any of the articles that say "Very Hard" either. In the mineral break down, Lake Malawi contains more Calcium and Magnesium Carbonates and some Silicates than Lake Tanganyika. Lake Tanganyika contains Sodium, Magnesium, Potassium and a small percentage of Calcium. These in the forms of Carbonates, Chloride, Sulfates and Silicates. Cheers, Tim www.fishaholics.org > One of my pet peeves is people quoting websites as their main source of > information. As much as I enjoy reading the Cichlid-Forum and respect Marc > and Eric, just because it's written in an article on their site doesn't make > it right. With that said. Very much agreed - which is why I'm inquiring about the sources of this observation, while this newly fangled `intarweb' is a great resource for aquarists, it's also the source of much controversy and many disputing `facts'. that, and nothing more is the reason I'm asking - because unless you have ready access to a local ph.d in african riftlakes, you're going to have to eihter go there yourself to measure hardness, ph, etc - or rely on whatever informtion you're granted - disputing or not, and then make your best acessment. that somebody's posted it on usenet doesn't make it more true than an article ;) I realize that it might have come off blunt, but being concise is imho more important. having said all that, I think it's great that this thread's lured out some people with knowledge (well sourced too) I thank you all for that :) > Sources for hardness. One must remember that pH and hardness is not the same > everywhere on the lake. Water will be lower in pH and softer where rivers [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > wouldn't say it was soft, but I would not agree with any of the articles > that say "Very Hard" either. Right - having `researched' - i.e. google->more articles with "dubious" sources - it'd seem that Taganyika is quite hard, whereas malawi could be considered `soft' in comparison, yet still relatively hard. > In the mineral break down, Lake Malawi contains more Calcium and Magnesium > Carbonates and some Silicates than Lake Tanganyika. > Lake Tanganyika contains Sodium, Magnesium, Potassium and a small percentage > of Calcium. These in the forms of Carbonates, Chloride, Sulfates and > Silicates. and thanks alot for this imho invaluable contribution to my knowledge :P /Tommi >> One of my pet peeves is people quoting websites as their main source of >> information. As much as I enjoy reading the Cichlid-Forum and respect [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > ph, etc - or rely on whatever informtion you're granted - disputing or > not, and then make your best acessment. If you want to get really technical have a look at these sites. http://www.crle.uoguelph.ca/malawi/ http://www.gemswater.org/atlas-gwq/table7-e.html SignatureDon`t Worry, Be Happy Sandy -- E-Mail:- news@ftscotland.co.uk Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk Looking for a webhost? Try http://www.1and1.co.uk/?k_id=2966019 >Right - having `researched' - i.e. google->more articles with "dubious" >sources - it'd seem that Taganyika is quite hard, whereas malawi could >be considered `soft' in comparison, yet still relatively hard. Yep, it's all relative. Malawi is hard relative to most African rivers but soft relative to most of the other rift lakes. The hardness is related to the age of lakes and how long the minerals have been accumulating. For example Tanganika is much older than Malawi. In the late 1960's Peter Davies sent his first big Malawi shipment to London. It came with a bottle of water to be tested. All I got was a pair of auratus, a pair of elongatus and a water analysis. Some years later a shipment from Malawi arrived in Manchester. One of the bags had no fish! We thought is was a short shipment but later realised it was just a space filler. It was an opportunity for further water analysis. I remember the pH was near neutral and water was quite soft. I know the pH may have reduced during the two days it took to get from Malawi to Manchester but I don't know of any reason for the water to soften. Chemists? We didn't want to repeat the mistakes that had cost the Tanganika keepers in the early sixties. Tanganika was thought to be the same water as the Congo. SignatureSteve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software EasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks. http://www.easynn.com >I was apparently given bad info far as salinity level, how hard should water >be for Labs? Lake Malawi isn't very hard at all. You can add limestone or coral gravel to make the water alkaline but you don't need extra chemicals. Steve Wolstenholme Neural Planner Software SignatureEasyNN-plus. The easy way to build neural networks. http://www.easynn.com |
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