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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Cichlids / August 2005Ready for Discus?
Hello: I entered the hobby about 6 months ago after a 15 year break. Have a 55 gallon tank. Canister filter and Biowheel on the back. 6.7 pH, 3-4 KH, 0 Ammonia ant Nitrite, less then 20ppm Nitrate. 3 to 4 x weekly water changes fm tap (The tap water is nice and soft.) Live plants, temp 82F. I have 4 cardinals 1 pair of Blue rams 10 'black' neon's, 3 cordy cats and one small pelco. Lost a cardinal or two but that's it. (The rams spawned twice but I think they ate the eggs!) I'm dying to try my hand at discus. I really don't want to overstock the tank but as I understand it I should get about 5 or so that they won't bully each other. I'm sure this would be fine when their small but won't they outgrow the tank? Also, I heard they need a 'bare bottom'. I don't have that. I really don't want to mess with live foods. Would frozen beefheatr and all the great dry stuff they have now do? Any comments, suggestions and advise is welcome. I want to try my hand with these fish but don't want to give up the live plants. Thanks very much! > Hello: I entered the hobby about 6 months ago after a 15 year break. > Have a 55 gallon tank. Canister filter and Biowheel on the back. 6.7 pH, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > hand with these fish but don't want to give up the live plants. Thanks very > much! You sound ready. Here's a great article by the very talented George Booth about discus in planted tanks. http://aquaticconcepts.thekrib.com/Articles/PAM_Discus.htm As for foods, consider frozen bloodworms, frozen glassworms, and prepared foods like Spectrum pellets. After reading Untergasser's classic disease book, I'm not convinced that dead cow is a good food for fish. ;-)  SignatureElaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__>< rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com >As for foods, consider frozen bloodworms, frozen glassworms, and >prepared foods like Spectrum pellets. After reading Untergasser's >classic disease book, I'm not convinced that dead cow is a good food for >fish. ;-) Hmm... presumably you're talking about beef heart. What does Untergasser say about it? -Derek >>As for foods, consider frozen bloodworms, frozen glassworms, and >>prepared foods like Spectrum pellets. After reading Untergasser's [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -Derek Yes, I was talking about beef heart. I went back and looked. From p. 115 of "Handbook of Fish Diseases" He says "beef-heart (sic) alone can never be adequate as food but must be fed along with supplemental greens and occasionally with vitamins." He goes on to talk about fatty degeneration of the liver from food with too many carbohydrates and fats and a lack of choline and vitamins. He also believes that hole-in-the-head is caused by vitamin D deficiency, which is lacking in one-sided diets. I looked it up and beef heart is high in choline, but not in vitamins. Finally, he says that "Gastroenteritis (also called gastrointestinal inflammation) may result from spoiled feed, a vitamin deficiency, or a one-sided diet of meat (such as beef heart). Likewise, a diet of an easily digestible food (such as white worms) with high nutritive value or a one-sided diet of carbohydrates, fats, or proteins can lead to the condition." So, common sense rules. Vary the diet of your fish and be sure to feed plenty of vitamins. ;-) SignatureElaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__>< rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com > >>As for foods, consider frozen bloodworms, frozen glassworms, and > >>prepared foods like Spectrum pellets. After reading Untergasser's [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > So, common sense rules. Vary the diet of your fish and be sure to feed > plenty of vitamins. ;-) When I first read your comments on beef heart as an unsuitable feed I immediately thought "Mad Cow Disease" (BST) - maybe a case of English paranoia :-) Gill > When I first read your comments on beef heart as an unsuitable feed I > immediately thought "Mad Cow Disease" (BST) - maybe a case of English > paranoia :-) > > Gill Heh. Gotta watch out for those raving, mad discus. Next think you know, beef heart fed discus will have dempseys and oscars cowering in the corner. ;-) SignatureElaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__>< rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com When I read it, feeding dead cow to discus. I was wondering just how big your Discus where. bassett >> When I first read your comments on beef heart as an unsuitable feed I >> immediately thought "Mad Cow Disease" (BST) - maybe a case of English [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > beef heart fed discus will have dempseys and oscars cowering in the > corner. ;-) > When I read it, feeding dead cow to discus. I was wondering just how big > your Discus where. > bassett *grin* Good one! I always have visions of a cow falling into the water and pirhanas eating it when I think of how someone came up with the idea of feeding beef heart to fish. It has always seemed like an odd fish food to me. SignatureElaine T __ http://eethomp.com/fish.html <'__>< rec.aquaria.* FAQ http://faq.thekrib.com > Hello: I entered the hobby about 6 months ago after a 15 year break. > Have a 55 gallon tank. Canister filter and Biowheel on the back. 6.7 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > but as I understand it I should get about 5 or so that they won't bully > each other. Your tank sounds excellent for Discus. Five would be an optimal number, but you might have good luck with 4 instead. Alternately, go with 5 and if they all do well, you might not mind upgrading their tank eventually. > I'm sure this would be fine when their small but won't they outgrow the > tank? Also, I heard they need a 'bare bottom'. I don't have that. Generally, bare bottom tanks are used in situations where you want to keep the tank very clean, such as quarantine tanks (no Ich cysts hiding in the gravel) and in grow-out tanks (no rotting organic matter to add to your NO3 and DOCs, and for visibility to maintain better control over the fry's progress). Because of the investment and some breeding peculiarities, Discus breeders use a few extra tricks, and to a greater extreme. In an effort to keep the water very clean (zero hormones, DOCs and NO3) they sometimes use massive water change routines, so bare-bottom tanks help them achieve this. Do not confuse specialty techniques with requirements. Discus have the same requirements as Angelfish, but depending on parentage can be a bit more particular about the water's hardness and about what they are being fed. > I really don't want to mess with live foods. Would frozen beefheatr and > all the great dry stuff they have now do? Yes, for any fish you want to provide a variety of foods to meet their protein, mineral and vitamin requirements. If you can get the Discus to eat it, flake food is a good staple to build on. From there, freeze-dried tubifex or the frozen products (beefheart, shrimp, mysis, bloodworms or custom Discus preparations) are added. There are a number of live cultures which are not hard to maintain as well. It just depends on your threshold. My routine was to feed dried foods in the morning (freeze-dried, pellets, flakes etc) and wet in the evenings (frozen foods or live). If you try to spoil your Discus, they will have you trained in short order ;~), however their culinary tastes tend to go to very rich foods (Discus delight, bloodworms, beefheart) which lack fibre (which I think accounts for 50% of a wild fish's diet) and other nutrients. Typically I keep about 5 or 6 foods on hand, a few dry (flake, algae wafers and pellets) and some frozen (shrimp, daphnia & bloodworms) and this takes care of 99.8% of the various fish in my care. > Any comments, suggestions and advise is welcome. I want to try my > hand with these fish but don't want to give up the live plants. Thanks > very much! Because Discus don't eat plants, and they don't dig in the substrate, and they don't pull them for visibility (they use them for cover), they are considered plant-friendly fish. hth Signaturewww.NetMax.tk Thanks VERY much all for the tips and help. I'm about to go and buy some this week. I guess I'll try 5 little babies. Thanks again! >> Hello: I entered the hobby about 6 months ago after a 15 year break. >> Have a 55 gallon tank. Canister filter and Biowheel on the back. 6.7 [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > they don't pull them for visibility (they use them for cover), they are > considered plant-friendly fish. hth |
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