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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Cichlids / September 2005Murder in the Malawi Tank
I came down this morning to find a dead Yellow Lab. I instantly thought it was the tattered beaten up one that I've been trying to catch and isolate for the past few days....but no...she is still swimming around and keeping out of trouble. It was a perfectly healthy (until this morning) Lab. It was pretty badly chewed up. I have two suspects that are beating on one another so much that they now both have sores on their mouths...and one of them bit me the other night. Allegedly, they are Maylandia Lombardoi but from what I can see I'm now suspecting they are "mutts" - I have 4 of them - 2 are slightly bluish/white, one is very yellow and the other is a browny yellow. It is the yellow and the browny yellow that are fighting - they are now 4-5 inch plus and very fat. From the fry in the tank I'm a little confused about their origin - deep blue with black vertical stripes - doesn't match anything else I've got so I'm guessing they are from these fish. Should I oik both of these fish out of the tank and trade them in as they will certainly kill one another if not other tank companions? Should I leave the status quo as if I get rid of these two Mbuna's by their nature will then fight again and another dominant fish will emerge? Should I pick one and keep it and get rid of the other one? "Innocent" fish are getting caught up in their war... Gill Sorry for the loss of your lab. Keep trying to catch and isolate the tattered yellow lab....it might be next. Any possibility the yellow lab died of something else and the other fish just picked at its carcass? I'm not sure what size tank you have or how many mbuna are in there, and I'm not sure what solution would really work. With the M. lombardoi or lombardoi-hybrids (if that's what they are), you're tank is pretty much on the aggressive side. You could try increasing the number of yellow labs (which are generally a less aggressive fish) to decrease odds of a specific fish being targeted (but the threat of more 'murders' will still exist). I'd go with adding at least 4 more. A total of 8 labs would be a good quantity if you are able to stock that many. If that doesn't help you could try removing the most aggressive fish in the tank If that doesn't work you could try removing all of the lombardi and replacing them with less aggressive fish (ps. acei would go nicely with yellow labs). If you want to keep all the hybrids you could add more aggressive fish, but that's a risky option. Any pics of your fish? kay-bee >I came down this morning to find a dead Yellow Lab. I instantly thought it >was the tattered beaten up one that I've been trying to catch and isolate [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Gill > Sorry for the loss of your lab. > Keep trying to catch and isolate the tattered yellow lab....it might be [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >> >>Gill The tank is a 200L (4ft). Its current occupants are:- 5 Yellow Labs 2 Aulonocara Hybrid OB Peacocks 4 Maylandia Lombardoi 3 Melanochromis Cyaneorhabdos (Electric Blue Johanni) 1 Snowball Plec Around 6 Melanchronis Juvs Around 6 plus misc fry that are at various stages of development I'm actually getting concerned that with the number of growing fry (especially the Melanchronis) that this tank is getting overstocked and am planning to sell them on (or get store credit for them). Maybe returning the Maylandia might be a better option for now. The Yellow Lab in question showed no signs of any illness and the water quality is good (I check the fish day and night at feedtime). The injuries looked similar to those that I have seen on one of the Melanchromis females after spawning (she always recovers though). But yes, fish can die for whatever reason. The two fish in question are still having a go at one another and any other fish foolish enough to get in their way. I guess they need to go... The only pictures that are posted anywhere can be found at:- http://fishgallery.com/default.aspx Although you have to join the site to view them I'm afraid....still working on sorting something out for posting my fishy pics. They are a little out of date having been taken a few months ago but give a general idea of the setup The pics are under "Fish Pictures" and are titled:- The Boys in action Centre View of tank Full view of tank OB Peacock (I thin) Melanchronis Cyaneorhabdos One of the perpetrators can be seen in "The Boys in action" next to the Melanchronis Thanks for your response Gill Nice tank. Well, it seems you have a good number of yellow labs and other fish. I'd definately try and put the tattered lab in a hospital tank as mentioned earlier. You can remove the lombardoi's to tone down the aggression in the tank, or keep it as it is and see what happens. kay-bee >I came down this morning to find a dead Yellow Lab. I instantly thought it >was the tattered beaten up one that I've been trying to catch and isolate [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > one and keep it and get rid of the other one? "Innocent" fish are getting > caught up in their war... Hey, i've had 2 yellow labs be "murdered" in my tank too. I originally came to this NG to find out what happened to the first, but found out it was one of my demasoni's picking on him. I bought a larger one to repalce him, but the second one died, leaving just hte larger one. So far he's been ok. He's about a 1/2" larger than the others. All the labs were larger than the demasonis. THis week he killed yet another fish. I'm not sure what to do about this agressive fish. In any case, the yellow labs are on the less agressive side, and having a larger one seems to help. Is your demasoni the only one of its kind in your tank? I have yellow labs with demasoni and other mbuna. With multiple demasoni in the tank, mine ignore the other cichlids and focus on each other (nothing beyond some chasing). For a while my dominant male demasoni possessed a certain cave and was territorial. He'd ward off any fish that got too close to the entrance...but then I rearranged the tank and the cave got taken over by my largest socolofi. kay-bee > Hey, i've had 2 yellow labs be "murdered" in my tank too. I originally > came to this NG to find out what happened to the first, but found out it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > sure what to do about this agressive fish. In any case, the yellow labs > are on the less agressive side, and having a larger one seems to help. > Is your demasoni the only one of its kind in your tank? > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>sure what to do about this agressive fish. In any case, the yellow labs >>are on the less agressive side, and having a larger one seems to help. I wonder if a little rock rearrangement might help in this case - plus it will be the only way to get the injured lab out...she's out right now feeding and it looks like there is some regrowth with the fins and tail. >>I came down this morning to find a dead Yellow Lab. I instantly thought it >>was the tattered beaten up one that I've been trying to catch and isolate [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > about this agressive fish. In any case, the yellow labs are on the less > agressive side, and having a larger one seems to help. I remember that posting. Weren't you thinking of swopping out the Demasonis? Gill >> Hey, i've had 2 yellow labs be "murdered" in my tank too. I originally >> came to this NG to find out what happened to the first, but found out it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I remember that posting. Weren't you thinking of swopping out the > Demasonis? I swapped out the aggressive demasoni and my tank is much happier. In fact, i'm not even sure which is the dominate. the two demasonis have the same color. In any case, no one is picking on anyone. -matt >>>Hey, i've had 2 yellow labs be "murdered" in my tank too. I originally >>>came to this NG to find out what happened to the first, but found out it [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > -matt Glad to hear you problem got sorted :-) My two seem to have drawn up an imaginary line across the tank which only gets crossed for feeding time or chasing of one of the others. In fact we have observed one of them herding all the other fish into the other one's half of the tank. The ragged female is making a good recovery and starting to grow her tail back... Gill >>>>Hey, i've had 2 yellow labs be "murdered" in my tank too. I originally >>>>came to this NG to find out what happened to the first, but found out it [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Gill lol, that's the thing I love about mbuna tanks, it's an ongoing soap opera :o) We had a 100g mbuna tank at the store (display only, mostly), and everytime a fish was added or removed, it would take them about 3 days to re-establish their pecking order and real-estate ownership, and those 3 days were very 'interesting' ;~).  Signaturewww.NetMax.tk >I came down this morning to find a dead Yellow Lab. I instantly thought it >was the tattered beaten up one that I've been trying to catch and isolate [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > one and keep it and get rid of the other one? "Innocent" fish are getting > caught up in their war... Mbuna tanks sometimes need to be reset, in regards to the choice of occupants and to thin out the herd. I'd turn down the water temperature for a while (until you have time to do the reset). About 74F cools their tempers down. The reset involves removing all the rocks & fish and re-arranging them before re-introducing the fish (with a few ommisions which get given away or sold). Sometimes, I've hit a combination of mbuna and/or other africans which peacefully added several generations. These ran several years without intervention, but typical mbuna tanks require tweaking much more often. ps: Don't neccesarily focus on the alpha male (troublemaker) as a new alpha male will quickly take his place and might be worse. Use your discretion. In regards to the odd fish being found dead, this happens. We joke that they got 'voted' out. It seems like there's a temporary truce called amongst the usual combatants, and they cooperate to 'remove' the one voted out, before going back to their usual chinanigans. Really well balanced mbuna tanks *almost* don't have this. Signaturewww.NetMax.tk > Gill >>I came down this morning to find a dead Yellow Lab. I instantly thought it >>was the tattered beaten up one that I've been trying to catch and isolate [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > out, before going back to their usual chinanigans. Really well balanced > mbuna tanks *almost* don't have this. Thanks for the update. One of the problems is that the two fish in question are fighting over who is the alpha male and going for anyone who gets in the way. At the moment it's a bit like "guns at dawn". They have occuppied one half of the tank each and spend most of their time posturing and flaring. Occassionally one will encroach on the other ones half of the tank which results in them locking jaws - both now have injured mouths. The problem first emerged a few weeks ago when the non-alpha male mated with one of the females....it has just gone downhill from there. The only end I can see to this is that one of them will emerge dominant either killing or severely injuring the other one. I will try the breaking down the tank option and see how this pans out - it's better than doing nothing....one of the fish will have to go back I think... Thanks again Gill >>>I came down this morning to find a dead Yellow Lab. I instantly thought >>>it was the tattered beaten up one that I've been trying to catch and [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > down the tank option and see how this pans out - it's better than doing > nothing....one of the fish will have to go back I think... They are usually not so magnaminous to let the loser live unless they are totally exhausted, so there is a good chance one or both will kill themselves off (the winner can sometimes get killed by the tank's beta male sensing an opportunity to jump from 3rd to 1st place, depending on your mix). The social workings are really quite fascinating, except that in nature, they have the option to 'bow out' and live to fight another day, and not in an aquarium :o(. Signaturewww.NetMax.tk > Thanks again > Gill |
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