poor old Percy

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Raccoon - 24 Sep 2004 16:00 GMT

Hello everyone,

One of my fantails, Big Fat Percy, has been suffering with swim bladder
problems and I have read up on how to treat it, tried the treatments but all
to no avail. He is obviously suffering and while he's my favourite little
chap I think it might be kindest to put him out of his misery.

Can anyone tell me the least painful, and quickest way to "euthanase" a
fish? He may only be a fish to some but I couldnt bear him to suffer any
more than is absolutely necessary. I read that the kindest thing to do is
to wrap up the fish in tissue and put him in the freezer. Wouldnt it be
better to put hi in a bowl of water before doing this, at least he wont be
gasping for air as well as freezing to death, poor little thing.

I'm a tad stressed about this, can anyone offer me some advice?
Many thanks
Tess :(

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Geezer From The Freezer - 24 Sep 2004 16:10 GMT

> Hello everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Many thanks
> Tess :(

Racoon, have you tried fasting him for 3-5 days and feeding shelled thawed peas?

If you do have to euthanise the best way is to use clove oil - this puts them
down without pain. Put your fish in a container with some tank water and
drop some clove oil in. He will then slowly drift into a sleep and pass.

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Raccoon - 25 Sep 2004 00:40 GMT

Ooops I replied to individual people instead of the group! please forgive
this unsolicited email, I shan't do it again (slaps wrist)

Tess

> > Hello everyone,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> down without pain. Put your fish in a container with some tank water and
> drop some clove oil in. He will then slowly drift into a sleep and pass.

Reply to this Message

Gunther - 24 Sep 2004 17:55 GMT

> Hello everyone,
>
> One of my fantails, Big Fat Percy, has been suffering with swim bladder
> problems and I have read up on how to treat it, tried the treatments but all
> to no avail. He is obviously suffering and while he's my favourite little
> chap I think it might be kindest to put him out of his misery.

In what way is he "obviously suffering?"
I've had fish with swim-bladder/floating problems, and I'm not
sure they ever suffer. In fact, my own favorite (and oldest)
mutt goldfish has the problem if I slip up and over feed.
She then gets a little frustrated, but that's not the same
thing, is it? If it was, _I'd_ be put out of my misery by now.

If fasting and purging (by feeding peas for a day or so)
doesn't help, that is, if the fish is _constantly_ bobbing
at the surface and/or having difficulty maintaining a
dorsal-fin-up posture, then maybe it's time for drastic
action, but certainly not before.

Just my opinion, you understand, and worth every penny you paid for it.

Gunther

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dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com - 24 Sep 2004 21:38 GMT

have you tried Chinese method?
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems
read everything here. floating is not miserable. if a GF is eating it can recover.
hell, even some fish quit eating can recover.
Ingrid

>Hello everyone,
>
>One of my fantails, Big Fat Percy, has been suffering with swim bladder
>problems and I have read up on how to treat it, tried the treatments but all
>to no avail. He is obviously suffering and while he's my favourite little
>chap I think it might be kindest to put him out of his misery.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

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Raccoon - 25 Sep 2004 15:12 GMT

Thanks very much for the replies everyone, I'm going to try the chinese
method before I reconsider euthanasing him. Although, strangely, he is
upright today and able to eat with the others, Its these "good" periods
that make me hesitate to euthanase him.

I'm very careful with their diet. They do get a little pinch of flake food,
but they also get bloodworm, brine shrimp or peas every day also, not too
much just what they can eat up in a couple of minutes. I feed twice a day,
flakes for breakfast and "real" food for supper, and the flakes I have are
the best quality I could get, I dont mind paying extra for happy, active
little fish.

> have you tried Chinese method?

http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems

> read everything here. floating is not miserable. if a GF is eating it can recover.
> hell, even some fish quit eating can recover.
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

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dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com - 25 Sep 2004 15:52 GMT

If he is ever upright FEED LESS FOOD. it is the major, major problem with fancies.
this is not going away. consider bringing temp up to 78oF if it isnt already.
brine shrimp are fine, dont feed bloodworm unless it is irradiated and watch out for
allergies to blood worms (you) makes hands itch if you are.
GF really need so little food at a time. I am shocked how little food my koi need.
overfeeding really means food in one end and out the other because they got such
short intestines. and the undigested food comes out the other end just fouls the
water. Ingrid

>Thanks very much for the replies everyone, I'm going to try the chinese
>method before I reconsider euthanasing him. Although, strangely, he is
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
>> endorsements or recommendations I make.

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Raccoon - 25 Sep 2004 16:32 GMT

Hi, yes I make sure he gets only a little food when he is upright. I hand
feed the little guys, so everyone gets just a little. I'm thinking of
moving him permanently into the smaller 30 litre tank so I can really
monitor his diet. I just hope he wont be lonely lol.
I'll check out my bloodworm to make sure theyre irradiated, I didnt know
that. I'm not allergic to it so thats okay.

I guess my real question is, Is it okay for me to keep him alive? which is
crueler, putting him to sleep or trying to make sure he has good quality of
life? You never really know what kind of discomfort a fish is in.

> If he is ever upright FEED LESS FOOD. it is the major, major problem with fancies.
> this is not going away. consider bringing temp up to 78oF if it isnt already.
[quoted text clipped - 53 lines]
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

Reply to this Message

Gunther - 25 Sep 2004 17:50 GMT

> I guess my real question is, Is it okay for me to keep him alive? which is
> crueler, putting him to sleep or trying to make sure he has good quality of
> life? You never really know what kind of discomfort a fish is in.

The same can be said of humans, unless you take their word for it.
(And we all know chronic whiners as well as stoic macho types,
so you can't even believe what they say.)

For fish, I think there are two main behaviors that are bad:
- lack of appetite or any interest in food: bad sign
- panic swimming, as if trying to escape from something
- "flashing" = trying to scrape something off
Ok, so that's 3.

A healthy, happy goldfish spends nearly all waking hours
searching for the next meal and should jump on it when
it appears. If Percy _never_ acts that way, something is
dreadfully wrong; if he acts that way some or most of the
time, you're approaching Goodness.

Gunther

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Raccoon - 25 Sep 2004 18:14 GMT

lol!
yeah when he's not belly up he loves to burrow in the gravel with his mates.
he struggles a bit but he's no quitter.

> > I guess my real question is, Is it okay for me to keep him alive? which is
> > crueler, putting him to sleep or trying to make sure he has good quality of
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Gunther

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dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com - 26 Sep 2004 19:46 GMT

maybe I am wrong person to ask since our 16+ y.o. springer had a back leg go out on
him and we just haul him around from room to room put towels under him. as long as
he isnt pain, he eats with gusto, he wags his tail and looks in our direction when we
talk to him ... I am not having him "put down".
if he is eating he has quality of life. ef/when it becomes too much for you, if/when
you dont seem to be changing the water often enough and seem to be losing interest,
then put him to sleep.
INgrid

>I guess my real question is, Is it okay for me to keep him alive? which is
>crueler, putting him to sleep or trying to make sure he has good quality of
>life? You never really know what kind of discomfort a fish is in.

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Raccoon - 29 Sep 2004 14:54 GMT

I suffer from clinical depression, and the arrival of these little guys in
my life has really helped me out, I cant see myself losing interest in
water changes and GF care. I dont believe animals should be put down just
cos we think its time. Only as a last ditch resort, if they are truly truly
suffering and theres no end to the pain.

I'm sure your Springer is enjoying a wonderful life with owners who really
care about him. Percy is currently undergoing the treatment recommended on
your website and seems to be getting pretty lively now! "walking" him round
the tank is fun too he seems to be getting used to it and its nice to
interact with him lol.

Many thanks and best wishes
Tess

> maybe I am wrong person to ask since our 16+ y.o. springer had a back leg go out on
> him and we just haul him around from room to room put towels under him. as long as
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
> endorsements or recommendations I make.

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dr-solo@wi.rr.xx.com - 30 Sep 2004 13:16 GMT

yeah, walking fish around is a bonding experience. Ingrid

>I'm sure your Springer is enjoying a wonderful life with owners who really
>care about him. Percy is currently undergoing the treatment recommended on
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Many thanks and best wishes
>Tess

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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Goldfish / September 2004

poor old Percy