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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Goldfish / November 2004Betas & Goldfish
OK Fellas, The girlfriend bought herself a beta yesterday and I feel sorry for the little fart. The thing is in an extremely small little container, probably less than one liter or even a half liter of water. She said that one of her friends has their beta in with a goldfish and they get along fine. I have my goldfish in a 10 gallon tank because I got sit of it tearing up my plants. Anyone had any luck with putting betas and goldfish together? We put the beta right next to the goldfish tank last night to see if the beta would fluff it's fins up, and it never did. But, it may have been stressed out too. Brian S. > OK Fellas, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Brian S. First off, since you can't seem to spell Betta, it's a good bet you mispronounce it too. Somewhere along the line there developed a misconception that these fish were named for the Greek letter beta (pronounced bay-ta). I wouldn't be surprised if the guy who sold it called it a beta too. The fish is named for a Siamese tribe of natives called Bettah (pronounced bet-ah). The fish is spelled Betta (capitalized because it is a genus). Bettas have an accessory breathing organ called a labyrinth, which allows them to live comfortably in water that ordinarily wouldn't be ideal for fish. This also allows them to live in small containers. The problem with this is that they really do better in warmer temperatures than the room temperature that they get in small containers. This is also why they are not normally kept with goldfish, which do better in cooler water. I think the Betta will do better in its small container than with the goldfish. Why would a Betta "fluff its fins up" (which the Betta people refer to as flare) for a goldfish? The answer is that it wouldn't. It can tell the difference between a goldfish and another Betta. Try using a mirror and you should see plenty of flare. ..Also, the Goldfish are likely to nip at the bettas tail and fins. . Buy a rose bowl or small goldfish bowl, it'll do fine. Feed your fish 3 Betta pellets in the morning. That's all mine get and I've had them live as long as 3 years. Appreciate the sarcastic response. Yes, I already new they were pronouced "bay-ta". I've had fish for over 10 years so I am familiar with the fact that they can live in smaller containers. However, I'm sure you would like being kept in a small 10'x10' shed and have to manage. We put both together for a while and the "betta" stayed at the top and the goldfish stayed at the bottom; almost like they were afraid of each other. However, because I have a Penguin 170 filter on my 10 gallon, I think it disturbed the betta too much. So, we found a pretty big vase and put the betta in there. Probably 4x as bit as the smaller container as it took more than a gallon of water to fill. Fish seems happier now and swims more freely. Brian S. > > OK Fellas, > > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > difference between a goldfish and another Betta. Try using a mirror and you > should see plenty of flare. > Appreciate the sarcastic response. > > Yes, I already new they were pronouced "bay-ta". Huh!?! You must have had trouble reading my post. They're NOT pronounced bay-ta. I've had fish for over 10 > years so I am familiar with the fact that they can live in smaller > containers. However, I'm sure you would like being kept in a small > 10'x10' > shed and have to manage. Since I learned not to anthropomorphize in animal behavior class in college, I don't make such comparisons. You're also failing to take into account that in the wild, male Bettas occupy and defend very small territories. > We put both together for a while and the "betta" stayed at the top and the > goldfish stayed at the bottom; almost like they were afraid of each other. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Fish seems happier now and swims more freely. How can you measure the happiness of the fish? By human standards? How can you tell if a fish even knows what happiness is? > Brian S. > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > you >> should see plenty of flare. >> Appreciate the sarcastic response. >> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > How can you measure the happiness of the fish? By human standards? How can > you tell if a fish even knows what happiness is? Natt lighten up for Pete's sakes! Try some Paxil. Goldfish and Bettas don't mix well Brian. > You're also failing to take into account that > in the wild, male Bettas occupy and defend very small territories. True, but those small territories are within large bodies of water. A wild betta surviving in the mythical muddy puddle represents a temporary seasonal extreme, not optimal conditions for long-term survival. And ornamental long-finned bettas don't necessarily cope with the same conditions that fish in the wild would. Bettas kept in very small containers don't display the same behaviours that bettas in a more spacious environment do (whether you want to characterise that as "happiness" or not), and they are much more prone to disease and premature death. Vicki PS Wow dude chill out. Kerry lost the election bro there's nothing you can do about that! >> Appreciate the sarcastic response. >> [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] >> you >>> should see plenty of flare. > However, because I have a Penguin 170 filter on my 10 gallon, I think it > disturbed the betta too much. So, we found a pretty big vase and put the > betta in there. Probably 4x as bit as the smaller container as it took more > than a gallon of water to fill. > > Fish seems happier now and swims more freely. He should be okay in a container that size. You just need to make sure you do very frequent water changes, and as much as possible avoid big temperature fluctuations. Bettas are pretty hardy, but they get stressed with rapid temperature drops. Stable conditions and clean water will help to protect against fin rot and fungus. He'll probaby appreciate a live or silk plant, too. Bettas seem to like resting on the leaves. Vicki PS >>However, because I have a Penguin 170 filter on my 10 gallon, I think it >>disturbed the betta too much. So, we found a pretty big vase and put the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Vicki PS Yep my Bettas rest on floating water wisteria. But I just moved then out of thier 2 1/2 gallon tanks and split a 10 gallon. It has the whiper filter for a 10 gallon, the water flow is not disturbing the fish, one on each side. I wanted a steady temp and filtered water for these guys they are already 2 years old now. they lived in a 2 1/2 perfecto gallon glass tank. they just upgraded to 5 gallon each. the plants are important for them to rest on. Kay Hi Brian, I'm glad to hear you're looking out for the little guy. I'm happy to give you the basics for betta care. To answer your first question, no bettas can't be housed with goldfish. Surprisingly, the reason hadn't been mentioned yet. Goldfish are cool water fish while bettas are tropical. Despite what fish store employees may tell you, bettas require a heated tank. They do best at around 78ºF but anything between 75 and 80 will do as long as it's stable. (Doesn't fluctuate more then 2 degrees in 24 hours) When the temp falls below 75, bettas begin to stress and become lethargic. They also become susceptible to illnesses and disease. Below 70F can actually lead to death. The minimum acceptable size for a betta tank is about 1 gal but this will really only allow them to survive, not thrive. All fish, as you know, benefit from a cycled tank and bettas are no different. Personally, I recommend a cycled tank no less then 5 gal. (It can be difficult to keep a tank cycled when it's less then 5 gal.) Bettas don't require tanks to be cycled, but it's more work and money to keep them in an uncycled tank with 100% water changes. It'll require you to be very vigilant about the tank parameters. You'll need to watch the temperature very closely and test for ammonia, and pH several times a week. You may also need to make pH adjustments at every water change. Overall, you'll spend more money on testing supplies and water conditioners in an uncycled tank. Just one last note, make sure you keep a lid (with air holes) on that vase he's in. Bettas are notorious jumpers and you wouldn't want to find him dried up on the floor one morning. Believe me, I know. :-/ If you have other questions about betta care and housing conditions... ask away. I love betta newbies. > Appreciate the sarcastic response. > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > you > > should see plenty of flare. k noone has mentioned this one yet, goldfish are wicked messy fish and excrete alot of ammonia, bettas cant handle that nor can other tropicals > Hi Brian, > [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] >> you >> > should see plenty of flare. > To answer your first question, no bettas can't be housed with > goldfish. This is a genius sentence. Oh man. >> To answer your first question, no bettas can't be housed with >> goldfish. > >This is a genius sentence. Oh man. I hereby relinquish my Comma Nazi crown...  Signaturesophie Are you joking lightheartedly or are you being nasty? I just thought it was a funny typo resulting in a sentence with dubious meaning. > Are you joking lightheartedly or are you being nasty? Oh, gotcha... Sounds like a double negative. My problem isn't with comas so much as ellipsis... For me, everything comes with a ... Online, you can't tell if people are poking fun or just being mean. What I meant was: Betta + Goldfish = Bad the guy DID NOT ask for a history/spelling lession geee let up take a chill pill Adin >> OK Fellas, >> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > difference between a goldfish and another Betta. Try using a mirror and > you should see plenty of flare. GF will eat most anything fits in their mouth. not a good idea to mix species with GF. >OK Fellas, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >Brian S. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. We but the betta and goldfish together again... the womain was 'lazy' and didn't want to take care of it (just as she did with the other fish she promised she would take care of). The two have been swimming together and getting along just fine now for two days. Brian S. > GF will eat most anything fits in their mouth. not a good idea to mix species with > GF. [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the > endorsements or recommendations I make. Unfortunately laziness and aquariums just don't go together. Maybe you could adopt him and give him a proper home in his own tank or find him a home where he'll be taken care of. Little good can come from keeping two fish with completely different needs together. I'd hate to say return him to the store, but honestly, he's going to be in just as much trouble in a goldfish tank as he'd be on a store shelf. > Anyone had any luck with putting betas and goldfish together? Bettas are solitary fish and prefer calm, warmer water (78F or so). Many folks keep them in small containers but I prefer at least 5 gallons, planted, for a betta (my m/f pair lives in a divided 10). I keep planted tanks both to help keep water conditions stable and because many bettas like to rest on broad-leafed plants (mine certainly do). I run a biowheel on the female side of the tank, and the water is calm enough on the male side that he has no trouble putting up his bubble nests. Goldfish are cool-water fish (70F or so) that do well with others of their own kind. They are notoriously messy and need lots of water; conventional wisdom is ten gallons per inch for goldies (I'm overlimit here with five largish goldies in a 30 but water conditions are fine with heavy planting and aggressive filtering (undergravel with a powerhead and a power filter on the side)). Many claim that goldies prefer a moderate current and mine certainly play quite a bit in the powerhead outflow. They can wreak havoc on the plants (goldies, even more than most fish, seem to be perpetual eating machines and are always digging in the gravel) so be prepared for lots of maintenance there. I leave my goldie tank at ambient (currently 68F) and they appear to be happy, healthy, active fish. These differing requirements are such that I don't think that bettas and goldies would do all that well together. In a perfect world you would get a new 20-gallon aquarium for the goldfish (cycle the tank before moving goldie in and get him / her a another goldie or two for company) and move the betta into the 10 (with some broad-leaf plants and a heater set to 78F). You might even divide the 10 and put another betta on the other side. Both goldies and bettas do well with aquarium salt in the water. SignatureJohn Goulden >> Anyone had any luck with putting betas and goldfish together? > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > another betta on the other side. Both goldies and bettas do well with > aquarium salt in the water. So I'd be over the limit with 800 goldfish in a 2000 litre (500 gal) tank. They are tough as guts these Thai fighters, if you want to liven then up feed them live food, small crusties work well. And they do live in puddles, we saw them on a trip to Chang Mai in flood areas. Presumably the parent disperses eggs in flood times. No where near as colourful as the genetically modified pets though. Dean > So I'd be over the limit with 800 goldfish in a 2000 litre (500 gal) tank. The limits I gave (10 gal / goldie) are what are typically quoted for home aquariums with relatively modest filtering and occasional water changes. You could probably have a thousand healthy goldfish in a 2000-litre tank with professional-quality pumps and filters (like what is hiding in the back room of a good-quality LFS), but most folks aren't going to have that sort of equipment for a home setup. I've now taught both of my betas to jump out of the water and take bloodworms from my fingertip. Lots of fun! Unfortunately I've had to lower their water level a bit, as the female has demonstrated that she could probably jump high enough to clear the divider and get into the male's side if she had a mind to. SignatureJohn Goulden > I've now taught both of my betas to jump out of the water and take > bloodworms from my fingertip. Lots of fun! Unfortunately I've had to lower > their water level a bit, as the female has demonstrated that she could > probably jump high enough to clear the divider and get into the male's side > if she had a mind to. Yep, they do that. I now keep a mesh cover over my female tank (under the glass) and feed through that, after regularly having to rescue hungry kamikaze bettas at feed time. Vicki PS I'd reccomend just getting a cheap $20 tank with a filter from petsmart, the little 2 gallon kind. When I was a kid I kept trying to mix goldies and bettas. They'd be fine for a couple months, but eventually the goldfish would nip betta to death. The worst was when the betta was just "gone" one morning. He either jumped to his doom or the goldies (we had about 5) devoured him completely. I admit as a 7 year old I was a somewhat inept fishkeeper. I'm better now. The only time I've seen Bettas and goldfish survive in the same tank (I wouldn't call it cohabitating) was in HUGE, understocked tanks with LOTS of hiding space for the betta. I mean like 55 gallons +. When 2 goldfish have full reign of 55 gallons, poking around in the plants for betta seems less interesting. > OK Fellas, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Brian S. |
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