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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Goldfish / May 2007Upside-down Ryukin?
Hi all, hope you can help. I have a 45 gallon tank with 5 fish in it. One redcap oranda, two black moors, and 2 pearl scale ryukins. Tank is running well but I'm having major algae blooms I can't quite explain. (No direct sunlight, water temp is steady at 70 degrees, pH and nitrates just tested at Big Al's are normal.) Filter is an Aqua Clear 70. I do water changes every 2 weeks. Kent Freshwater Pro-Clear seems to have cleaned up the water finally, but that doesn't really address why it's happening in the first place. I'm still confused about that. Here's my question for tonight though. My ryukins, one more than the other, float upside-down for several hours after I feed them. (And I'm very careful not to overfeed them.) Any idea what causes this? I've tried floating food vs. sinking food and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Any help is appreciated... Dana Any idea what causes this? I've tried floating food vs. sinking food and it doesn't seem to make any difference. Any help is appreciated... Dana possible swim bladder disorder. not much you can do as they tend to all have this. I've had three of my last 5 orandas develope this. >possible swim bladder disorder. not much you can do as they tend to >all have this. I've had three of my last 5 orandas develope this. I had an oranda do it too, many years ago. Thanks. Dana Evidentlyi t got into your stash........and got high and messed up! <<>>Any idea what causes this? I've <<>>tried floating food vs. sinking food and it doesn't seem to make any <<>>difference. Any help is appreciated... <<>> <<>>Dana <<>> <<>>possible swim bladder disorder. not much you can do as they tend to <<>>all have this. I've had three of my last 5 orandas develope this. ------- I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know! nitrates are normal? really? usually algae responds to nitrates, altho, if the fish are spawning this can spike ammonia and you might not catch it. I am pretty surprised with that fish load and infrequent water changes that your nitrates are low , at or lower than 20 ppm. if you have gravel on the bottom, this could be fueling a problem. floating; http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems it this cannot be resolved the fish will end up upside down permanently get your temp up to 78oF soak the food for an hour before feeding, and only a mouthful per fish. overfeeding and compaction/rotting is the major cause of floating. in a pond these fish spend all day hunting for itty bitty things to eat. get some freeze dried krill and daphnia to feed them. GF are not really herbivores, they digest protein and fats and stuff that lives in the water. never feed food with corn or other carbohydrates in the first 3 ingredients. fish are very efficient at converting food to muscle. they just dont need that much food, especially not at one time. Ingrid >Hi all, hope you can help. I have a 45 gallon tank with 5 fish in it. >One redcap oranda, two black moors, and 2 pearl scale ryukins. Tank is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Dana ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/ sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website. I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan >nitrates are normal? really? Well, that's what the guy at Big Al's said. Should I get my own test kit and do it myself? Might he just have been referring to ammonia or pH when he said "the water's normal"? >usually algae responds to nitrates, altho, if the fish >are spawning this can spike ammonia and you might not catch it. Fish are not spawning. >I am pretty surprised with that fish load and infrequent water changes that your >nitrates are low , at or lower than 20 ppm. Do I have too many fish? I knew it was close, but I could send a couple to Big Al's. >if you have gravel on the bottom, this could be fueling a problem. I do have gravel, but keep it very clean. >floating; >http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems Thanks, I'll go read that in a moment. >it this cannot be resolved the fish will end up upside down permanently >get your temp up to 78oF ok, but I thought GF were cold water fish? >soak the food for an hour before feeding, and only a mouthful per fish. overfeeding >and compaction/rotting is the major cause of floating. in a pond these fish spend >all day hunting for itty bitty things to eat. ok. Would it be better to feed them tiny amounts several times a day? >get some freeze dried krill and daphnia to feed them. I have some, but had kind of been using it for "treats". > GF are not really herbivores, >they digest protein and fats and stuff that lives in the water. never feed food with >corn or other carbohydrates in the first 3 ingredients. I'll go read labels. >fish are very efficient at converting food to muscle. they just dont need that much >food, especially not at one time. Ingrid Thanks for your help Ingrid. Dana Might he just have been referring to ammonia or >pH when he said "the water's normal"? ..... yup, always good to get your own kits >Do I have too many fish? I knew it was close, but I could send a >couple to Big Al's. ........ IIRC, you have 45 gallon tank and 1 filter. 3 large fish, 4 smaller fish, OR, increase water changes to keep nitrates at or below 20 ppm. >I do have gravel, but keep it very clean. ............... you would be surprised how much organics are caught in the gravel. reach down and grab a handful of gravel all the way to the glass like you are going to take it out of the tank and pick it up and see how much "stuff" swirls up into the water. however, do not actually decide to remove all the gravel with the fish in the tank, they must be moved out temporarily to a bucket with airstones. >ok, but I thought GF were cold water fish? .......... no, they arent. their ideal temp for metabolism is closer to 75. they can "exist" at lower temps, but it isnt ideal >ok. Would it be better to feed them tiny amounts several times a day? >I have some, but had kind of been using it for "treats". ....... yes, tiny amounts more X per day. INgrid ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/ sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website. I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan > Might he just have been referring to ammonia or >>pH when he said "the water's normal"? > >..... yup, always good to get your own kits ok, I'll do that. >>Do I have too many fish? I knew it was close, but I could send a >>couple to Big Al's. >........ IIRC, you have 45 gallon tank and 1 filter. 3 large fish, 4 smaller fish, >OR, increase water changes to keep nitrates at or below 20 ppm. ok. I have 2 large-ish fish and 3 small-ish ones. Filter is an Aqua-Clear 70. I'll do more water changed. (Once a week, perhaps?) Have to go to Big Al's soon anyway, I'll pick up a water test kit then. >>I do have gravel, but keep it very clean. >............... you would be surprised how much organics are caught in the gravel. >reach down and grab a handful of gravel all the way to the glass like you are going >to take it out of the tank and pick it up and see how much "stuff" swirls up into the >water. however, do not actually decide to remove all the gravel with the fish in >the tank, they must be moved out temporarily to a bucket with airstones. ok, will do. I'll check out how clean my gravel is (or is not) today. >>ok, but I thought GF were cold water fish? >.......... no, they arent. their ideal temp for metabolism is closer to 75. they >can "exist" at lower temps, but it isnt ideal huh. I always thought 68 - 70 was good temp for them. Well, the heater is in and the water is now at 76. Fish look happy. >>ok. Would it be better to feed them tiny amounts several times a day? >>I have some, but had kind of been using it for "treats". >....... yes, tiny amounts more X per day. ok again. Thanks for all of your help. I'm *going* to get this tank straightened out! Dana >floating; >http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease/symptom/symptom.htm#floating%20problems That is a *ton * of info, thanks. Going to get the heater and put it back in the tank right now. If you don't use gravel in a tank for a substrate, what do you use? Dana nothing. the bottom of the tank gets coated with algae and it looks great. there is no "cleaning" anymore. just water changes to keep nitrates low. http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/plants.html Ingrid If you don't use gravel in a tank for a >substrate, what do you use? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List at http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/ sign up: http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?hl=en&q=puregold&qt_s=Group+lookup www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I receive no compensation for running the Puregold list or Puregold website. I do not run nor receive any money from the ads at the old Puregold site. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan >nothing. the bottom of the tank gets coated with algae and it looks great. there is >no "cleaning" anymore. just water changes to keep nitrates low. >http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/care/plants.html >Ingrid Oh, very cool! The tank looks beautiful... Dana Hi, After looking at your water and fixing any issues their try frozen peas. Throw 3 to 5 frozen peas in the microwave for about 1 and a half minutes and then shuck them (pull off the outer shell) then drop a few in the tank. Your Goldfish will LOVE them and they are a laxative. So the air they gulp when they eat their food will be pushed out. If the upside down fish can't get upright to go to the bottom to eat get a tooth pick and stab a pea and BE CAREFUL not to stab the fish and hold onto the toothpick tightly and feed the upside down fish. You really should feed your goldfish peas once a week to help rid their stomach's of any crap that may not pass through easly. James >Hi all, hope you can help. I have a 45 gallon tank with 5 fish in it. >One redcap oranda, two black moors, and 2 pearl scale ryukins. Tank is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Dana |
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