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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Goldfish / July 2004PH Crash...
PH Crashed in my 55gal. I had 0 KH carbonate hardness and only 20ppm GH. PH was at 6.0, one of my fish got sluggish and died after only one day Maintenance has always been the same. I don't know how this could of happened, ok I was heavily stocked. Question is, is it harder to maintain water quality in the summer when water temperature goes up. (82degF.) Does the water get acidic faster?  Signature...Kodiak >PH Crashed in my 55gal. >I had 0 KH carbonate hardness and only 20ppm GH. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >summer when water temperature goes up. (82degF.) >Does the water get acidic faster? It seems like it should. All the metabolic processes will speed up, the fish burn food faster, generate ammonia faster. Running with zero carbonate is like balancing a pencil on its point, nothing to provide stability. Why do it? Signature- Charles - -does not play well with others Kodiak, I will assume that your tank is cycled and with that premise your KH went to zero because the bacteria use the carbonate ions that establishes the KH in their process of processing ammonia in nitrites and nitrites in to nitrates. You need something in your setup to continually replace the carbonates back in to the water. In any event, with out KH in your water your pH crashs to the acid side. Don't know about your GH, because that is how much Ca is in your water. Tom L.L. > PH Crashed in my 55gal. > I had 0 KH carbonate hardness and only 20ppm GH. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > summer when water temperature goes up. (82degF.) > Does the water get acidic faster? Well it's an empty hospital tank, so the only hardness comes from the water i put in, and the "GH/KH" of the water out my tap is very low to begin with. Where do i find cheap Dolomitic limestone, and how do I know it's gonna be safe for my fish? Should i use Chicken or Oyster shell? Where can I buy that cheap? I went to the brickyard yesterday and couldn't find anything. ...Kodiak > Kodiak, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > summer when water temperature goes up. (82degF.) > > Does the water get acidic faster? >Well it's an empty hospital tank, so the only hardness >comes from the water i put in, and the "GH/KH" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I went to the brickyard yesterday and couldn't find anything. >...Kodiak Oyster shell should be fine, the kind sold for chickens would be good. Somewhere I read a note about using plaster of paris, just casting a block and putting it into the tank. Use the cheapest plaster of paris, not the fancy ones which extra components. That writer got his at home depot. Signature- Charles - -does not play well with others would cuttlefish do? and how would it affect PH? > >Well it's an empty hospital tank, so the only hardness > >comes from the water i put in, and the "GH/KH" [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > paris, not the fancy ones which extra components. That writer got his > at home depot. it is a fast way to kill fish. it does not stabilize the pH. it makes naturally soft water swing up and down in pH. Ingrid >Somewhere I read a note about using plaster of paris, just casting a >block and putting it into the tank. Use the cheapest plaster of >paris, not the fancy ones which extra components. That writer got his >at home depot. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. Kodiak, Dolomitic lime can usually only to be found around areas where a lot of aquaculture is evident, Mississippi and Louisiana are good places to look for it. You can sometimes find it in a garden center, but it is not very easily found around here in Oklahoma. Dolomitic lime at one time was feed to livestock and was easy to find, but substitutes have been found and so it has disappeared from most areas. The best, cheapest thing that I have found is Oyster shell chicken grit. It too has when used extensively in the aquaculture community. I know of a trout facility that runs its return water through about a ton of it. You can find it at a feed store or a store caters to the agriculture community. Let your fingers do the walking and make a few calls before you strike out to find some. 50lbs costs about $3.00, or that is what it costs around here. In my ponds I have a tray of it that the water falls through after it has went through the mechanical filter materials of the filter. In tanks I used a nylon stocking to either put if in the filter or let it hang above the rising water from an airstone. Keeps my water 80-120ppm KH. HTH Tom L.L. ----------------------------------------- > Well it's an empty hospital tank, so the only hardness > comes from the water i put in, and the "GH/KH" [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >>>summer when water temperature goes up. (82degF.) >>>Does the water get acidic faster? Thanks Tom, Gonna check it out tomorrow.... ...Kodiak > Kodiak, > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > >>>summer when water temperature goes up. (82degF.) > >>>Does the water get acidic faster? the only thing drive pH below 6.4 (heavy CO2 dissolved) is organics and nitrites will do it too. chicken and oyster shell have calcium, but no magnesium and dont dissolve very fast. there is the added problem of possible contaminants, both organic and inorganic. they are not recommended except in a pinch. go to walmart or a garden store and get organic dolomitic limestone. it will be whitish with dark flecks in it. and when you put a handful into 1 gallon the pH wont go over 8 or so. get a large rubbermaid for a hospital tank. the more water the faster fish come around. Ingrid >Well it's an empty hospital tank, so the only hardness >comes from the water i put in, and the "GH/KH" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I went to the brickyard yesterday and couldn't find anything. >...Kodiak ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. Kodiak, Ingrid is on her misinformation high horse again. Oyster shell chicken grit not only has calcium and magnesium in it, but it has a lot of trace elements that you don't get from dolomitic lime. Oh, lets us use some sense here also, if the chickens are using the oyster shell chicken grit and it has contaminants in it then that would mean that you were eating these contaminants in your eggs and fried chicken. Oyster shells are used for chicken grit all over the US and like I said it is used extensively in the food fish aquaculture industry. I doubt you can get the dolomitic lime from Wal-mart. I have never found it there, but you may find in the area where you live, but I would call first. I found it once at LOWES, but when I went back for some more they told me that they were not suppose to get it and only had it on the shelf by mistake. You don't need it to dissolve fast. It dissolves as it is needed just like the dolomitic lime does. It is like colomitic lime in the situation that if the water gets a little acid, like when it rains, it dissolves into the environment. If you want fast, use baking soda. Oyster shell chicken grit works great. What more can I say. HTH clear this misinformation up. Tom L.L. -------------------------------------------------------- > the only thing drive pH below 6.4 (heavy CO2 dissolved) is organics and nitrites will > do it too. chicken and oyster shell have calcium, but no magnesium and dont dissolve [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the > endorsements or recommendations I make. >Well it's an empty hospital tank, so the only hardness >comes from the water i put in, and the "GH/KH" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I went to the brickyard yesterday and couldn't find anything. >...Kodiak The best thing to use is Crushed Coral as this contains calcium carbonate which increases the GH/KH of water in a tank. Check http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html for more details. Anyway I live in a soft water area with a pH of around 6.5 from the tap and this year started keeping livebearers which require hard/alkaline water. To start with I used sodium bicarbonate to increase the KH and pH which worked well and also got some Epsom salts to increase the GH then went on a massive search to try and get calcium carbonate to no avail. Also thought about limestone etc, but in the end realised that crushed coral as used for a substrate by Lake Malawi Cichlid and also marine tank owners was the sensible option. I bought some crushed coral which isn't very expensive from a LFS and mixed a fair amount into my gravel substrate and for the last 3 months this has been maintaining the GH and KH with a pH of around 7.6. it is used for marine tanks. not suitable for fresh water. Ingrid >The best thing to use is Crushed Coral crushed coral as used for a substrate by Lake >Malawi Cichlid and also marine tank owners was the sensible option. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. I use aragmax sand. I pay no attention to the nay sayers, because I have great results on my side. However my common goldfish is getting huge. I think way to big for a 55. I would use the crushed coral in the substrate but will it hurt the goldfish? Is it sharp? The aragmax is so small and rounded and safe for the smallest sand sifter. PS I have apple snail only tanks and use aragmax sand and Kent's liquid calcium at half does. They are freshwater apple snails and they are thriving! Kay > it is used for marine tanks. not suitable for fresh water. Ingrid > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the > endorsements or recommendations I make. >I use aragmax sand. I pay no attention to the nay sayers, because I have >great results on my side. However my common goldfish is getting huge. I >think way to big for a 55. I would use the crushed coral in the >substrate but will it hurt the goldfish? Is it sharp? The aragmax is so >small and rounded and safe for the smallest sand sifter. In general you are supposed to use it in the filter based on the web sites I've come across. Myself I added it to the substrate as I wanted to keep using the siporax filter media in my external filter and it felt the easier thing to do :). Yes I guess the some crushed coral pieces are sharp and bigger fish might hurt themselves on it, so maybe it would be best in a filter, but then Lake Malawi Cichlids are biggish fish and it's used in their tanks and also you have coral sand which is quite fine. BTW why are you using coral to add calcium carbonate to a goldfish setup as they don't need hard/alkaline water been happy at 6.5 to 7.5 pH according to my books. >PS I have apple snail only tanks and use aragmax sand and Kent's liquid >calcium at half does. They are freshwater apple snails and they are >thriving! I also have some snails which came on a plant, which are similar to the ones at http://www.diewasserwelt.de/blasenschnecke.htm which is the link a German sent me, they are supposed to great algae killers so have decided to leave them alone :). I use the Liquid Calcium in my apple Snail only tanks to help keep thier shell healthy. I do have minnows in there and they are not bothered by it. They come in so many colors now. I have Gold, Ivory, Purple, Blue, Brown. There is now blue striped and Pink. So I guess this does not apply to goldfish. But the sand is great for my goldfish! Kay >>I use aragmax sand. I pay no attention to the nay sayers, because I have >>great results on my side. However my common goldfish is getting huge. I [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > the link a German sent me, they are supposed to great algae killers so > have decided to leave them alone :). >I use the Liquid Calcium in my apple Snail only tanks to help keep thier >shell healthy. I do have minnows in there and they are not bothered by >it. They come in so many colors now. I have Gold, Ivory, Purple, Blue, >Brown. There is now blue striped and Pink. So I guess this does not >apply to goldfish. But the sand is great for my goldfish! I guess you know about www.applesnail.net which seems to be the mecca for Apple Snail lovers. I'm on the fence about snails as the ones I have keep the tank clean and don't eat my plants, but I've never really liked snails :). I didn't know I liked them , until I bought my sister a betta and a snail, and I saw that snail grow up. So I bought 4. then went to www.applesnail.net and learned. I bought from a breeder, purple, blue ivory and gold. Kay >>I use the Liquid Calcium in my apple Snail only tanks to help keep thier >>shell healthy. I do have minnows in there and they are not bothered by [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > have keep the tank clean and don't eat my plants, but I've never > really liked snails :). >But the sand is great for my goldfish! Actually sand is not good for goldfish it wears at their mouth and gills >>But the sand is great for my goldfish! > >Actually sand is not good for goldfish it wears at their mouth and gills No, it doesn't. > >>But the sand is great for my goldfish! > > > >Actually sand is not good for goldfish it wears at their mouth and gills > > No, it doesn't. Good debate there! Yes it does, its small an can be course and the gills are sensitive and not hard the like the scales. Fish sucking sand up don't always spit it straight out, sometimes it will seep out of the gills - not good! The major problem though is sand is also prone to dead spots that can house anaerobic bacteria. Sand is just plainly not a good idea for goldfish. I guess maybe freshwater sting ray tanks with sand is such a bad idea. those poor stingrays... My goldfish have been in sand bottom tanks since the beggining of thier lives. All these problem stated with sand, I have not experenced. I would like to see proof of this terrible sand with the sand I have. There is none. Kay >>>>But the sand is great for my goldfish! >>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The major problem though is sand is also prone to dead spots that can house > anaerobic bacteria. Sand is just plainly not a good idea for goldfish. >The major problem though is sand is also prone to dead spots that can house >anaerobic bacteria. Sand is just plainly not a good idea for goldfish. Are you saying goldfish are an exception to the fish in the real world? > >The major problem though is sand is also prone to dead spots that can house > >anaerobic bacteria. Sand is just plainly not a good idea for goldfish. > > Are you saying goldfish are an exception to the fish in the real world? Goldfish in tanks are yes. >> Are you saying goldfish are an exception to the fish in the real world? > >Goldfish in tanks are yes I thought so. The facts will prove you have erroneous information, however, I think you just go with the flow of opinion and put forward ideas that sound plausible. Sand without resistance will not abrade. Gills are designed by mother nature to deal with sand. I have personal experience with sand and goldfish and can state 100% there is no problem. Sand also has nothing to do with anaerobic bacteria, it's a fact of life in aqua and not specific to sand. Sand bottoms have benefits that include better nitrification, a cleaner bottom and less environmental stress on the fish. Stress being the major factor in health issues makes sand a desirable feature. > >> Are you saying goldfish are an exception to the fish in the real world? > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > environmental stress on the fish. Stress being the major factor in health > issues makes sand a desirable feature. Show me your proof, I have none to back up my claims, then we'll call it a day. You have not shown me proof of the sand irritation, the sand I use. You gave links to places that does not say anything, that last link she or he, uses sand. Kay >>>>Are you saying goldfish are an exception to the fish in the real world? >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Show me your proof, I have none to back up my claims, then we'll call it a > day. >Show me your proof, I have none to back up my claims, I never doubted.... > >Show me your proof, I have none to back up my claims, > > I never doubted.... Well there is proof about anaerobic bacteria developing in sand and that is not a good thing! Yes Geezer, You can get anaerobic bacteria in sand and gravel, but it is usually only if you are a poor house keeper of your aquarium environment. I have used UGF's for years and if the edges don't get vacuumed, there is a possibility of anaerobic bacteria forming in that area, or if you dump a container of flake food or what ever in your tank and don't get it clean out right away. Of course, anaerobic bacteria is possible, but in the operation of a clean, cleaned, and well keep aquarium it is usually non existent. Tom L.L. -------------------------------- >>>Show me your proof, I have none to back up my claims, >> >>I never doubted.... > > Well there is proof about anaerobic bacteria developing in sand and > that is not a good thing! >> >Show me your proof, I have none to back up my claims, >> >> I never doubted.... > >Well there is proof about anaerobic bacteria developing in sand and >that is not a good thing! You seem to ignore nature and how things work. I'm not going to spoon feed you. If you want to know something, look it up. You were the person who remarked that research is your friend. Stop quacking and start reading. > >> >Show me your proof, I have none to back up my claims, > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If you want to know something, look it up. You were the person who remarked > that research is your friend. Stop quacking and start reading. Berney, yeah right! I know what I'm talking about. If you dont agree then fine. > >The major problem though is sand is also prone to dead spots that can house > >anaerobic bacteria. Sand is just plainly not a good idea for goldfish. > > Are you saying goldfish are an exception to the fish in the real world? Goldfish in tanks are yes. In the real world fish have thousands to millions of gallons each, any anerobic bacteria is heavily diluted. Having goldfish in a tank is not the real world. Thank you! My goldfish are active and healty. Kay >>>But the sand is great for my goldfish! >> >>Actually sand is not good for goldfish it wears at their mouth and gills > > No, it doesn't. >>But the sand is great for my goldfish! > > Actually sand is not good for goldfish it wears at their mouth and gills I do not believe that to be true. My sand says its small rounded and safe for the most delicate and small sand sifters. This saying, "sand is not safe" is only an opinion. and not mine. All sand is not alike even though some people here wants to think so. I think this is the only NG that I have ever read that mantra. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion and I always refer to more than one source. Kay > >>But the sand is great for my goldfish! > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Kay Goldfish are not small sifters like tropicals, who only up small amounts (releasing less anerobic pockets). Ignore it if you like. Check out www.goldfishparadise.com or www.kokosgoldfish.com and see what they think. Research is your friend. Like I said I have talked with many breeders of goldfish, I don't buy the montra. You kow who had a good laugh, my best friends father who works for and sets up exibits at the Chicago Shedd Aquarim. I would take his word than yours. But hey thats just me. Kay >>>>But the sand is great for my goldfish! >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Check out www.goldfishparadise.com or www.kokosgoldfish.com and see > what they think. Research is your friend. >Check out www.goldfishparadise.com or www.kokosgoldfish.com and see >what they think. Research is your friend. There is a research paper on gills, look for it and tell your pals what you learned. > >Check out www.goldfishparadise.com or www.kokosgoldfish.com and see > >what they think. Research is your friend. > > There is a research paper on gills, look for it and tell your pals what you > learned. There is research papers on anerobic bacterial growth - look for it and tell your pals what you learned too. Sorry Geezer, I search both sights and KOKO mentions she uses sand and I could find nothing on sand in the website. I looked in all of what I thought were the logical place s, but couldn't find any reference to sand except that which was mentioned. I guess I need some direction. Assistance please? Tom L.L. --------------------------------------- >>>>But the sand is great for my goldfish! >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Check out www.goldfishparadise.com or www.kokosgoldfish.com and see > what they think. Research is your friend. > >>But the sand is great for my goldfish! > > > > Actually sand is not good for goldfish it wears at their mouth and gills > > I do not believe that to be true. My sand says its small rounded and > safe for the most delicate and small sand sifters Some pet stores and products say goldfish bowls are fine for goldfish # that isn't true. Don't believe everything thats hand fed. I will have to mention that to Chicago Shedd aquarium.That they are hand feeding wrong infomation. LOL Kay >>>>But the sand is great for my goldfish! >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Some pet stores and products say goldfish bowls are fine for goldfish # > that isn't true. Don't believe everything thats hand fed. liquid calcium is great. When the local walmart stopped carrying the dolomitic limestone Jo Ann used she switched to some kind of a liquid calcium too. not sure what brand. Ingrid >I use the Liquid Calcium in my apple Snail only tanks to help keep thier >shell healthy. I do have minnows in there and they are not bothered by >it. They come in so many colors now. I have Gold, Ivory, Purple, Blue, >Brown. There is now blue striped and Pink. So I guess this does not >apply to goldfish. But the sand is great for my goldfish! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. >it is used for marine tanks. not suitable for fresh water. Ingrid It's in the marine section of some LFS but experts use it in freshwater tanks to increase the GH, KH and pH. Refer to the link I previously posted http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html for clarification or http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/water/alkaline.shtml for further clarification. which experts? Jo Ann Burke is an expert. She does not recommend marine products for freshwater fish. Ingrid >>it is used for marine tanks. not suitable for fresh water. Ingrid > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/water/alkaline.shtml for further >clarification. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. >which experts? Jo Ann Burke is an expert. She does not recommend marine products >for freshwater fish. Ingrid Well the web sites I mentioned plus the following http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/termsandtables/g/crushedcoral.htm , plus Dr Neville Carrington of Interpet, Peter Hunnam. Annabel Milne, Peter Stebbing all authors of books which cover hardness and how to increase it. >>which experts? Jo Ann Burke is an expert. She does not recommend marine >products >>for freshwater fish. Ingrid Jason, she's all about politics, not facts. if they are talking about marine fish, of course. Jo Ann Burke was strictly Goldfish and Koi for almost 30 years (she retired recently). Over the years of selling large, expensive imported fancy GF she dealt with a lot of people all over the U.S. and even in other countries. Water conditions are extremely different in different parts of the country and what she came up with were "the essentials" for keeping this big fancy GF. The essentials include recommendations on what kind of products work the best and which ones have shown some problems in some areas of the U.S. So one of the things she does not recommend is marine salts and products for use with goldfish. Ingrid >>which experts? Jo Ann Burke is an expert. She does not recommend marine products >>for freshwater fish. Ingrid [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Peter Stebbing all authors of books which cover hardness and how to >increase it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. >if they are talking about marine fish, of course. Jo Ann Burke was strictly Goldfish >and Koi for almost 30 years (she retired recently). Over the years of selling large, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >things she does not recommend is marine salts and products for use with goldfish. >Ingrid No Ingrid you still haven't got it. You don't seem to be reading anything. These books and web sites are talking about using Calcium Carbonate to increase the GH and KH as well as the pH of freshwater tanks. Please read the web sites, rather than just saying crushed coral is only marine. Crushed Coral is basically Calcium Carbonate and Calcium Carbonate occurs in freshwater. Calcium Carbonate isn't a marine salt as it has nothing to do with salinity. Check other newsgroups, in fact put up a post saying I have a freshwater tank with a low pH and low hardness and you'll get a flood of people recommending using crushed coral in your filter to fix it. Jason, Hey you are getting the idea. It is either her way or the highway. She very seldom listens to anyone unless you have a doctorate degree and a handful of digraphs behind your name. I have used crushed coral and calcium carbonate tablets, which is a good way to go if you can get them cheap, but the interesting thing about the calcium carbonate tablets is they are a lot of times made out of crush oyster shells. So I cut out the middle man and buy oyster shell chicken grit. It works great. Lots of luck in your endeavors. Tom L.L. --------------------------------------- >>if they are talking about marine fish, of course. Jo Ann Burke was strictly Goldfish >>and Koi for almost 30 years (she retired recently). Over the years of selling large, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > freshwater tank with a low pH and low hardness and you'll get a flood > of people recommending using crushed coral in your filter to fix it. Hi Tom, >Hey you are getting the idea. It is either her way or >the highway. She very seldom listens to anyone unless >you have a doctorate degree and a handful of digraphs >behind your name. LOL. >I have used crushed coral and calcium carbonate >tablets, which is a good way to go if you can get them >cheap, but the interesting thing about the calcium >carbonate tablets is they are a lot of times made out >of crush oyster shells. So I cut out the middle man >and buy oyster shell chicken grit. It works great. I got my crushed coral for just less than £1/kilo which is less than $1.87/kilo. As regards Oyster Shells I've read some where on my web travels that it's very high in calcium carbonate and makes an excellent buffer. Myself I'll stick with crushed coral as it's available at most LFS and is specifically designed for aquaria use, so I don't have to do much pondering as it's more of a known quantity :). >Lots of luck in your endeavors. Thanks my livebearer tank with guppies and platies is doing very well. It is the platies that caused the sudden interest in water chemistry as I got some in Feb/Mar and after a few days they died, a quick read around made it clear they had to have hard/alkaline water and I realised my soft water was what had caused their demise. This was a shock as even though I've had fish for 15 years to be honest I've never worried about water chemistry as quite a few books say not to worry about it and in general I've got away without worrying about it. Anyway to cut a long story short I went on a massive research quest and found the very good page at http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-chem.html among others. Still learning as I've also setup the tank as a heavily planted tank and have a feeling may need some laterite and also upping the pH and KH in the tank has also had effects on the plants, now sticking with Amazon Sword and Crytocorynes as they are coping well in the higher hardness and pH water. BTW I have also read for example at http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/nutrient/nitcyc.shtml that biological filtration works better at a pH above 7. Anyway www.skepicalaquarist.com is a very good web site and it's where I learnt that Vallisneria and Sagittaria don't get on together as plants. Jason, I have never had a problem with crypts and hard water, but have never had any luck with Amazon swords in hard water unless the variety you get in the UK is different that what is offered here in the general in the US. Tom L.L. -------------------------------------- > Hi Tom, > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > learnt that Vallisneria and Sagittaria don't get on together as > plants. >I have never had a problem with crypts and hard water, >but have never had any luck with Amazon swords in hard >water unless the variety you get in the UK is different >that what is offered here in the general in the US. I haven't had the Amazon Sword that long, but the 14 specimens all over a foot tall when bought are growing at the rate of about a leaf every 2 days, so they are doing well so far. This doesn't mean that they will do well forever though, but I did get them on reading in an Interpet book on aquatic plants that Amazon Swords were popular due to their high tolerance of hard water which is also echoed at http://www.tropica.com. Anyway been learning an awful lot this year and have a feeling I've still a lot to learn in practice about growing aquatic plants. Jason, Maybe I will look into Amazon Swords again. Do you know what species are the ones that you have? Do your Goldfish bother them? That is the other problem. Goldfish are not suppose to bother Java Fern, but in one of my tubs this winter last the Goldfish shredded the plants. Tom L.L. >>I have never had a problem with crypts and hard water, >>but have never had any luck with Amazon swords in hard [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Anyway been learning an awful lot this year and have a feeling I've > still a lot to learn in practice about growing aquatic plants. >Maybe I will look into Amazon Swords again. Do you >know what species are the ones that you have? Do your >Goldfish bother them? That is the other problem. >Goldfish are not suppose to bother Java Fern, but in >one of my tubs this winter last the Goldfish shredded >the plants. The species I have I am fairly sure is the standard Echinodorus bleheri. With my Amazon Swords I'm not using any fertiliser at the moment, but I believe that they have high iron requirements and this may have caused you problems and may cause me some in the future, so am looking into fertilisers. As I've said aquatic plants are a new thing for me this year, mainly as in the past 18 years I've kept big fish like Goldfish, Koi and Oscars all known to be disruptive in a planted tank. This year have got into livebearers which are small and to provide fry cover need plants unless the female is moved to a breeding trap and this seems to be detrimental as both female guppies I've transferred to a breeding trap have died shortly after due to the stress. I don't have any Goldfish at the moment, but was thinking about getting some for snail control (since decided against), this is also related to why your Java Fern got shredded as Goldfish will try to eat or pull at anything that will fit into their mouths. Wow!, never thought i could stirr up such a long thread. Thanks for all the input folks... ...Kodiak > >if they are talking about marine fish, of course. Jo Ann Burke was strictly Goldfish > >and Koi for almost 30 years (she retired recently). Over the years of selling large, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > freshwater tank with a low pH and low hardness and you'll get a flood > of people recommending using crushed coral in your filter to fix it. >Wow!, never thought i could stirr up such a long thread. >Thanks for all the input folks... Your welcome :). |
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