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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Goldfish / July 2004Goldfish in the news
One small step for humans, one giant step (swim?) for goldfish.... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040723/od_afp/afplifestyle_ italy_animals&e=5  SignatureLaurie, Dark Phoenix dark_phoenix@netw.com "It is better to believe, than to disbelieve; in so doing you bring everything to the realm of possibility."-Albert Einstein. now if only the usa would get a friggin clue > One small step for humans, one giant step (swim?) for goldfish.... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20040723/od_afp/afplifestyle_ italy_animals&e=5 That story has made my day! Evan Davis > now if only the usa would get a friggin clue Seen this story a few days ago. It's also on goldfishparadise forums. If only the rest of the world would follow suit! > > now if only the usa would get a friggin clue > > Seen this story a few days ago. It's also on goldfishparadise forums. > If only the rest of the world would follow suit! <RANT> You're dreaming. Outlawing a piece of hardware as a corrective for human ignorance is an easy and ultimately ineffective solution. Politicians like such laws because it allows them to pass the buck off to the folks charged with enforcing such laws, who will in most cases just ignore them. So who wins, other than the politicians? Hmmm..how about the Italian equivalent of Bed Bath and Beyond? Or are we to assume that Italian pet lovers are too dumb to figure out that a nice big "flower vase" might work just as well as something labeled "Goldfish Bowl" (or "ciotola del goldfish" as it might be called there)? And I've heard recently that California is due to enact legislation that will prevent pet shops from selling over-the-counter medications like penicillin, tetracycline, etc. Apparently the drug industry doesn't like low-income people having easy access to STD treatments from PetCo. No, it's really to protect the makers of the pet meds: they're not subject to FDA rules, so could easily ship product with lethal mis-dosages, impurities, or the like. Don't want anyone to get sued! This is supposed to make you take sick pets to the vet for meds. Ok, so where does one find a vet that will treat a goldfish for less than the replacement price of the fish. This will cause the needless death of millions of inexpensive pets. And possibly create several new veternary specialties, but that'll take years. </RANT> Gunther, who never really left. > And I've heard recently that California is due to enact legislation > that will prevent pet shops from selling over-the-counter medications > like penicillin, tetracycline, etc. I gotta get out of this state. -D Signature"One ought, every day at least, to hear a little song, read a good poem, see a fine picture, and, if it were possible, to speak a few reasonable words." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe >>And I've heard recently that California is due to enact legislation >>that will prevent pet shops from selling over-the-counter medications [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -D Wow. Next thing will be is every fish if sick has to go to the vet. So you can get a prescription. Lets see , theres the office visit fee. then the lab results fee, oh yes the docters fee. Hmm maybe we need fish health insurance? I wonder if putting down a fish will be a crime? We might have to bring it in and have a vet do that! Oh yes and pay a fee for the fish to be disposed properly. :) Kay >> > now if only the usa would get a friggin clue >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >doesn't like low-income people having easy access to STD treatments >from PetCo. to interject: in this country (UK) you can't buy over-the-counter antibiotics of any sort, for what is (as far as I can see) a very sensible reason. Anti-biotic resistant bacteria are becoming an increasing problem and many humans believe you can treat almost anything with antibiotics. Irresponsible self- or pet- medication would almost certainly cause even bigger problems than we already have (I'm _not_ trying to suggest that anyone here medicates irresponsibly, btw). point 2 - I had understood that it was _keeping_ fish in inappropriately small containers that was to become illegal? Which strikes me as hard to enforce but quite sane. Hopefully it would mean that pet shops would no longer sell the small containers to people? Signaturesophie > point 2 - I had understood that it was keeping fish in inappropriately > small containers that was to become illegal? Which strikes me as hard > to enforce but quite sane. Hopefully it would mean that pet shops > would no longer sell the small containers to people? [RANT] A "goldfish bowl" is a VERY appropriate size for keeping a betta. So... It will become illegal to sell a goldfish that's going into a bowl, but not into an Oscar??? How about the fish store, will it become illegal to keep a couple hundred feeders in a 100 gallon tank? I feel for the fish as much as the next guy, comma but, somebody hasn't thought that law through very well... I know, I know... mandatory training and licensing for fishkeepers. And a registration of each fish with the government so they can come to your house and insure that the fish is being well kept. Of course that means that home breeding of fish will need to be outlawed, otherwise the government couldn't insure the registration of the fish. And oh yes, those violent aggressive fish? Well... that won't do. We can't have artificial examples of violence influencing our children. No, that won't do at all! We'll outlaw those nasty mean fish. And don't get us started on the wanton ways of those live-bearers, those hussys. Wouldn't want the children to see that, bad example you know... We'll outlaw them too. And those bi-sexual snails? Right, out they go. Oh, and those pl*cos... They're ugly as sin. No power for good would have created such an ugly creature, so they must be tools of _evil_ ! We must make the world safe for fish! -D SignatureHe who does not oppose evil by all means in his power becomes its accomplice. >> point 2 - I had understood that it was keeping fish in inappropriately >> small containers that was to become illegal? Which strikes me as hard [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >So... It will become illegal to sell a goldfish that's going into a >bowl, but not into an Oscar??? <g> as I said, I think its the _keeping_ the fish that's the issue, not selling them. and I'm fairly sure I also said it would be pretty hard to police. HOWEVER if it does result in LFSs giving customers better advice about keeping fish and the containers that they need then that can only be a good thing, surely? Signaturesophie <snip> > [RANT] > A "goldfish bowl" is a VERY appropriate size for keeping a betta. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > -D LOL LOL LOL you forgot your [/RANT] ! :) Kay >>> > now if only the usa would get a friggin clue >>> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > enforce but quite sane. Hopefully it would mean that pet shops would no > longer sell the small containers to people? I think my first thought, is that the goverment now has opened the door to future things to invade our homes. goldfish should never be in a bowl, it shold be common sense. People are either to lazy to find out, or want the fish but don't want to spend the money on how to care for the fish. Just like dogs , cats and other pets. It is sad that a law has to babysit people to do the right thing, be it the fish owner or the store owner. Its a shame that people have no morals or personal responsibility for thier own actions. More and more if it keeps going this way, all the goverment will be in all countries is a big huge bloated overpaid babysitter. Kay .. > >And I've heard recently that California is due to enact legislation > >that will prevent pet shops from selling over-the-counter medications [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > bigger problems than we already have (I'm _not_ trying to suggest that > anyone here medicates irresponsibly, btw). This would almost be a compelling argument, except I find it pretty hard to envision how such super-bacteria would manage to spread far beyond the confines of one or at most a few aquariums in a single household. Quite different to the case of humans abusing anti-bacterial soaps and medications, and then sneezing on everyone on the bus on the way to school or work. But then I'm certainly not an epidemiologist -- for all I know salmonella started in a budgie cage in some pensioner's kitchen. > point 2 - I had understood that it was _keeping_ fish in inappropriately > small containers that was to become illegal? Which strikes me as hard to > enforce but quite sane. Hopefully it would mean that pet shops would no > longer sell the small containers to people? My point was that neither would be effective. No one will enforce either law, so nothing will change. The problem is ignorance, thus the fix is education. G >.. >> >And I've heard recently that California is due to enact legislation [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >But then I'm certainly not an epidemiologist -- for all I know >salmonella started in a budgie cage in some pensioner's kitchen. I think - and I hasten to add that this is my own opinion only - that much if not most dirty tank water gets emptied into the sewer system. As the sewer system is full of bacteria of all different kinds, many of which are pretty detrimental to people as well as fish, tipping residual antibiotics into it is going to be a fairly bad idea. And as many fish-owners (everyone is her obviously excepted ;-) ) are fairly clueless about diagnosing illness I have a feeling that antibiotics would be routinely overused and abused. I may be wrong. But I have to say that I am comfortable with antibiotics being prescription only - this might be because that's the culture I've grown up in - they are very useful drugs and their overuse is potentially disastrous. >> point 2 - I had understood that it was _keeping_ fish in inappropriately >> small containers that was to become illegal? Which strikes me as hard to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >either law, so nothing will change. The problem is ignorance, thus >the fix is education. I don't disagree with you there; however if it became illegal to keep goldfish in unduly small containers and this law were publicised in pet shops and aquatics shops that might well go a long way to ending ignorance. My childminder, who is one of the kindest and most responsible people that I know was keeping two goldfish in an absolutely tiny tank, because she truly believed this was acceptable. Had she been made aware of the goldfish's needs at point of sale this wouldn't have happened. I started off fairly recently with an enormously overstocked tank simply because I'd been led to believe that this was ok - I would not have found out that it wasn't had I not come to this group. I agree with you that the law would be nearly impossible to enforce, but while there are laws against cruelty to animals including mammals, birds and reptiles I don't think there's a real problem with adding fish to that list. It would be lovely if there were no necessity for any of these laws, but sadly there probably is. Signaturesophie |
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