Fat Rabbit?
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jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 05:11 GMT hello all,
Just out of curiosity, how do I know if my rabbit is fat? I mean, how fat is TOO fat? Petunia is about 2&1/2 years old, and was spayed almost a year ago. Since that time she has remained active and gets her usual ration of pellets and the occasional treat, but seems a little porkier than usual. She is 'free-range' and seems to rip all over the place and gets into everything, so it is not like she is not getting enough exercise, and we haven't changed anything in her diet that could lead to her getting fat. She doesn't seem to have slowed down any since being spayed. I would not say she is obese or anything, but how do I check to see if she could stand to lose a few? Also, any tips on helping her to slim down a bit, if she is in fact overweight? Just hoping to nip any future problems with weight control in the bud!
many thanks,
lisa
Arlette & Cocoa - 22 Feb 2008 05:51 GMT How many/what type of pellets do you feed her daily? What is her weight at present? What breed is she? Do you have photos posted anywhere?
What else is in her diet besides pellets? She may need her pellets rationed; the general rule of thumb is 1/4 to 1/3 cup pellets per five pounds of rabbit per day once they hit seven months old. The type of pellet makes a difference as well. Alfalfa pellets are richer and more fattening. I switched Cocoa to timothy hay based pellets which are higher in fibre and less fattening. Avoid pellets with nuts, seeds, corn and coloured bits. Avoid carbs like breads, crackers, cookies or other people foods.
 Signature God Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 06:09 GMT Rabbits are not like people. A diet could be more dangerous than a couple of extra ounces. One coffee scoop of pellets for a four pound rabbit two scoops for an eight pound rabbit. As long as you are feeding real food I would not worry. Three cups of greens a day per rabbit. A healthy bunny has a full round tummy. That's the first thing my vet checks for. Buy the best hay you can find. Give some carrot as a daily treat and once a week five or six dried cranberries (no sugar) and a walnut to counter calcium build up. A slice of banana, only as thick as a quarter will make (quite literally) their but twitch with joy. Bananas have sugar so this is only a special treat.
Now kiss your rabbit and say with emotion, "My sweet little fat rabbit" . Repeat this three times.
Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda
>hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >lisa > jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 06:13 GMT Petunia is 5.6Lbs as of last week, and was 4.6Lbs when she was spayed. I don't think she is any particular breed, but I am not sure. She has the markings of a Cinnamon, but also some white, and isn't as large. I don't have any photos posted anywhere, but I have emailed you a few pictures of her out in the snow a couple weeks ago.
Her diet consists of 1/4 cup of pellets daily with unlimited grass hay and roughly a cup of fresh veggies on the side, mostly romaine lettuce, parsley and other herbs, and/or mixed salad greens (mesclun mix). She gets a small piece of fruit (usually a slice of apple or a small piece of banana) once a week. The pellets are alfalfa based and we get them in large bags at an agricultural feed store (co-op) since it is more cost effective when feeding four hungry rabbits! We never give our buns people food like breads/cereal or cookies or anything like that, so I guess maybe it is the alfalfa pellets? Are the timothy pellets more expensive than alfalfa pellets? I have never seen them before. Can I get them at any old pet store? Do you think they would be available at the co-op? I will have to look into it.
Many thanks!
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 06:23 GMT Half timmy, half alfalfa is ok too. You don't need to throw out your original pellets.
Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda
<snip>
>I guess maybe it is the alfalfa pellets? Are the >timothy pellets more expensive than alfalfa pellets? I have never [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Many thanks! > Arlette & Cocoa - 22 Feb 2008 07:18 GMT From what you've described, it seems your rabbits have a great diet and don't really need any changes. My only other question is, do you feed them together or apart? Could Petunia be eating some of the other buns' pellets? Sometimes multiple buns don't get equal portions.
She doesn't look too fat to me, but I wouldn't let her get heavier than she is now. It sounds like she gets a good amount of exercise, though rabbits can get a bit lethargic in winter, like people. You could try reducing her pellet intake a wee bit and encouraging more hay intake.
Timothy pellets tend to be more expensive than alfalfa ones. I use the Oxbow Hay brand from the US. I used to mail order them in, but now I buy them at my vet's office, so they are more costly. They used to be the only maker of Timmy pellets. I know there are a couple of other companies now. I believe American Pet Diner makes them. Not sure what you might find where you are.
You know, you should join the Ontario Rabbit Education Org (OREO). Most of the members are in southern ON. I'm the only member in my region. Other bunny owners down there might have leads as to where to buy certain products. Here's the website to the OREO forum. I don't think you have to join up with OREO to use the forum. http://forum.ontariorabbits.org/ Here's the OREO website http://www.ontariorabbits.org/ Lots of good info there.
 Signature God Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>
jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 06:34 GMT oh Professor... you and I must have posted at the same time! Thank you for your nutritional tips. I will definitely increase our buns' intake of fresh greens - it is so much easier in the summer when things are in season, as veggies seem to be so expensive at this time of year! Oh well, spring is soon upon us here in frosty Ontario (I hope). I did not know about the walnuts and cranberries, and will incorporate them this week. I am sure our girls will be delighted, for the most part - Petunia is actually the picky one, which is surprising since she seems kind of chubby, but we shall see how it goes. And I guess no more bananas! she'll be disappointed about that, as it is one of her favourites ha ha. The hay we get is awesome; I am sometimes tempted to try it myself, it smells so good! ha ha My husband's uncle is a farmer and raises Simmental cattle in Lindsay, Ontario. He gives us a square bale of Timothy a few times a year, and it is stored in a cool dry place in the house so I think we are ok on the hay front.
thanks again!
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 06:46 GMT Some banana is ok, but only a thin slice. Your girl will appreciate a small treat even more!
Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda
<snip>
>oh Professor... you and I must have posted at the same time! Thank >you for your nutritional tips. <snip>
> And I guess no more bananas! she'll be disappointed about >that, as it is one of her favourites ha ha. > Arlette & Cocoa - 22 Feb 2008 17:49 GMT NO NUTS! They are very fattening. Unless they have some physical issues that require added calorie support, I wouldn't give nuts. I wouldn't give craisins either personally. They do put sugar on dried cranberries. If you're only giving fruit once a week, I wouldn't cut out a tiny bit of fruit. I still say, reduce the pellets a very tiny amount and encourage more hay by giving fresh more often.
Sorry PS, I disagree with you here.
 Signature God Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>
pickproof - 22 Feb 2008 19:30 GMT > NO NUTS! They are very fattening. Unless they have some physical issues that > require added calorie support, I wouldn't give nuts. I wouldn't give [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here > <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c> I agree with Arlette, In my post I did not mention unlimited fresh timothy hay. And Papya Jack gets one mellon ball of fresh Paypya once a week. I get the rest of the Papaya lol ! Nuts are not good. I would not feed any store bought rabbit treats either.
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 19:37 GMT I dry my own cranberries. We call them Professor Sparkles home dried cranberries. Take a push pin, a needle is too thin. Poke two holes in each berry at ninety degrees to each other. Bake at 190 degrees for four hours and allow to sit for two days on a plate. Cranberries are credited with preventing urinary tract infections.
Here's a website with another method.
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/snacks/r/driedcran.htm
Only walnuts have the magnesium required to fight calcium build up in the bladder. They are best fed during shedding when your rabbit needs the extra protein.
Nuts have been documented in the recovery of weak hind quarters in rabbits. If any one remembers who talked about this please give me a heads up
Most of what I have said has been repeated on this group before. I have checked out most of what I have advocated. Beth gave me the heads up on magnesium in walnuts.
Yes, nuts can be fattening if over done. I would give no more than 1/2 walnut per rabbit per week. If your rabbit has sludge in his or her urine this will cure it.
Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda
>NO NUTS! They are very fattening. Unless they have some physical issues that >require added calorie support, I wouldn't give nuts. I wouldn't give [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > pickproof - 22 Feb 2008 13:16 GMT > hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > lisa Hello,
My vet is recomending 1/8th cup of timothy pellets per 5 pounds of body weight and 1 cup of greens per pound of body weight per day. Jack is a dutch but I believe this would be a good rule of thumb for all breeds. A good check up with a Bun savy vet would be a good idea they could let you know what an ideal weight for the specific breed would be.
John, Connie and Jack
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 15:35 GMT A coffee scoop is just about 1/8 cup. I believe your measurement for greens is a good one. most don't feed enough greens. It's hard for me to know exactly what my boys eat, as they all eat together. It's a food fight... LOL. In pounds (approximately) Jump is 5, Wizard 4, and little Zolo, less than 3. :-D
Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda
> > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >John, Connie and Jack > Arlette & Cocoa - 22 Feb 2008 17:53 GMT Vets have diverse opinions on how many pellets a rabbit should be eating. Some vets would tell you not to feed any pellets at all. It is one of those individual rabbit issues, that is why I said try reducing the pellets a small amount and encourage more hay to see if that makes a difference.
Any drastic diet changes can cause tummy upset, so don't drastically reduce food or change it. If you want to give more greens, try more herbs: cilantro, parsley, dill are favourites. Just give tiny amounts to see how their system reacts to it.
 Signature God Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>
Bisky - 24 Feb 2008 18:10 GMT > Hello, > > My vet is recomending 1/8th cup of timothy pellets per 5 pounds of > body weight and 1 cup of greens per pound of body weight per day. > Jack is a dutch but I believe this would be a good rule of thumb for > all breeds. A good rule of thumb, yes. There are some caveats, though.
Always adjust based on your rabbit's weight. If your rabbit is overweight, decrease the amount of pellets and energy dense veggies. If your rabbit is underweight, increase the amount of pellets and / or energy dense veggies.
Larger rabbits will need less food per pound of body weight than smaller rabbits. So a 4 pound rabbit may only need 1/8 of a cup, but a 9 pound rabbit may only need 1/4 cup.
Some rabbits have very high metabolisms. My Tucker was skinny and I could not keep weight on him. His buddy, Wanda, was perpetually tubby. I would try to sneak him calories when I could, but it was a challenge to balance their diets. After careful watching, I realized that Tucker was even eating way more of the food than she was, he was just a horribly bred bunny, poor guy.
High fiber alfalfa pellets (like Purina HF) have a similar calorie an nutrient profile as timothy pellets and are an option.
Sick rabbits need more calories. My Bear (10 pounds) was getting purina green bag pellets mashed with 1/2 banana every day towards the end of his life, and he was still losing weight. ALWAYS monitor your rabbit.
b
jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 20:57 GMT Well, since my girls generally hate each other's guts, they are all fed separately so it is darn near impossible for Petunia to be eating anyone else's food. (well, they all hate each other with the exception of Chicken and Hoppie... Chicken LOVES Hoppie and would love to be with her more than anything in the world, but Hoppie only tolerates her if I am around to supervise... I think it is a case of age differences - Hoppie is a wise old girl of eight and has settled down, while Chicken is just under two and gets a little rambunctious for Hoppie's liking). I am going to look for timothy pellets, and maybe give them just to Petunia for now (or a mix of timothy/alfalfa) since if they are too expensive I can't afford to give them to everyone right now! I like to think that we feed our buns pretty well - pet health/nutrition has always been very important in our household - most of the time our pets eat better than we do!
Do you suppose they would eat fresh cranberries? I love cranberry sauce and I make it all year 'round rather than just at holidays, so I always have a bag of cranberries in the house. Is there any advantage of the dried berries over fresh? I guess maybe the dried ones (even though they are not sweetened with sugar) would be sweeter because the natural sugars in the fruit are concentrated in their dried form, and therefore are more appealing to buns. Although it seems safe to me, is there any reason why I should not try giving them fresh cranberries (if they will eat them, of course)?
I visit the OREO website frequently, but have never used their forum and am not a member. I will have to look into it further.
once again, thanks for all the great info... you are all so amazing! I learn something new every time I'm here ha ha
Arlette & Cocoa - 23 Feb 2008 05:01 GMT Yes, you can give fresh cranberries. Cocoa loves them, but again, just try a small bit first to see how they react. When Cocoa was having his bladder issues, he got a fresh cranberry daily.
You don't have to be a member of OREO to use the forum, just register with the forum.
 Signature God Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>
Professor - 23 Feb 2008 05:58 GMT I think the rabbits like the consistency dried berries. It's a rabbit thing! Why do they like wires?
Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda
>Well, since my girls generally hate each other's guts, they are all >fed separately so it is darn near impossible for Petunia to be eating [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >I learn something new every time I'm here ha ha > jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 21:05 GMT I have joined a photo sharing site, so here are some pictures of Petunia in the snow just recently, so you can all judge her pudge factor... let me know what you think!
jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 21:06 GMT http://www.flickr.com/photos/24027622@N02/sets/72157603965314985/
Arlette & Cocoa - 23 Feb 2008 05:04 GMT Great pics! Petunia is very pretty :)
 Signature God Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>
pinktrixrabbit - 24 Feb 2008 21:35 GMT >http://www.flickr.com/photos/24027622@N02/sets/72157603965314985/ Oh what a cutie!
Lisa, Hershey, Boo Boo, Louise & Sharkey (Thelma, Wendy & Cartman FTB)
Martha - 23 Feb 2008 20:48 GMT > hello all, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > lisa When we brought Roxie in for her annual wellness check the vet weighed her and even though we kept her on the same diet (2 coffee scoops/day of pellets mixed 50/50 alfalfa/timothy, greens,unlimited grass hay, and very tiny piece of fruit) she had gained one pound in a year. He could feel the excess fat and said she had to lose weight and he wanted to be able to feel her waist again. He suggested we cut out all pellets. I've not quite done that, but she is now down to less than 1 T pellets/day & I suspect that she was eating more because she probably finished Biscuit's pellets too. Anyway, the vet can tell you what's up. Martha
Bisky - 24 Feb 2008 18:00 GMT > hello all, > > Just out of curiosity, how do I know if my rabbit is fat? I mean, how > fat is TOO fat? You want to be able to feel the nubs of her spine if you run your hand over her back. They sound feel like your knuckles. If you can't feel the nubs, she's too heavy. You should be able to feel her ribs with no/little pressure.
If you can't feel her bone structure she is too heavy. There are a couple things you can do. The easiest is to reduce the amount of pellets. You'll also want to feed lots of greens, but limit the amount of carrots and other energy dense veggies.
b
jerkface - 25 Feb 2008 12:53 GMT > You want to be able to feel the nubs of her spine if you run your hand > over her back. They sound feel like your knuckles. If you can't feel > the nubs, she's too heavy. You should be able to feel her ribs with > no/little pressure. I can feel her spine, hooray! Maybe I just have a chubby rabbit instead of a fat rabbit... ha ha
________________________________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/24027622@N02/
Professor - 25 Feb 2008 21:46 GMT That's what my vet says. I can feel Jumps spine easily. After watching him for three years, she says, "That 's just his build". She, amongst other things, does the spine test too. Still, he will always be the BFR. Too skinny is not good for a rabbit!
Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda
>>You want to be able to feel the nubs of her spine if you run your hand >>over her back. They sound feel like your knuckles. If you can't feel [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >http://www.flickr.com/photos/24027622@N02/ >
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