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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rabbits / February 2008



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Fat Rabbit?

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jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 05:11 GMT
hello all,

Just out of curiosity, how do I know if my rabbit is fat?  I mean, how
fat is TOO fat?  Petunia is about 2&1/2 years old, and was spayed
almost a year ago.  Since that time she has remained active and gets
her usual ration of pellets and the occasional treat, but seems a
little porkier than usual.  She is 'free-range' and seems to rip all
over the place and gets into everything, so it is not like she is not
getting enough exercise, and we haven't changed anything in her diet
that could lead to her getting fat.  She doesn't seem to have slowed
down any since being spayed.  I would not say she is obese or
anything, but how do I check to see if she could stand to lose a few?
Also, any tips on helping her to slim down a bit, if she is in fact
overweight?  Just hoping to nip any future problems with weight
control in the bud!

many thanks,

lisa
Arlette & Cocoa - 22 Feb 2008 05:51 GMT
How many/what type of pellets do you feed her daily? What is her weight at
present?
What breed is she? Do you have photos posted anywhere?

What else is in her diet besides pellets?
She may need her pellets rationed; the general rule of thumb is 1/4 to 1/3
cup pellets per five pounds of rabbit per day once they hit seven months
old. The type of pellet makes a difference as well. Alfalfa pellets are
richer and more fattening. I switched Cocoa to timothy hay based pellets
which are higher in fibre and less fattening. Avoid pellets with nuts,
seeds, corn and coloured bits. Avoid carbs like breads, crackers, cookies or
other people foods.

Signature

God Bless,
Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/
Need a vet? Click here
<http://www.rabbitvet.net>
For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here
<http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>

Professor - 22 Feb 2008 06:09 GMT
Rabbits are not like people.  A diet could be more dangerous than a
couple of extra ounces.  One coffee scoop of pellets for a four pound
rabbit two scoops for an eight pound rabbit.  As long as you are feeding
real food I would not worry.  Three cups of greens a day per rabbit.  A
healthy bunny has a full round tummy.  That's the first thing my vet
checks for.  Buy the best hay you can find.  Give some carrot as a daily
treat and once a week five or six dried cranberries (no sugar) and a
walnut to counter calcium build up.  A slice of banana, only as thick as
a quarter will make (quite literally) their but twitch with joy.  
Bananas have sugar so this is only a special treat.

Now kiss your rabbit and say with emotion, "My sweet little fat rabbit"
.  Repeat this three times.

Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda

>hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>lisa
>  
jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 06:13 GMT
Petunia is 5.6Lbs as of last week, and was 4.6Lbs when she was
spayed.  I don't think she is any particular breed, but I am not
sure.  She has the markings of a Cinnamon, but also some white, and
isn't as large.  I don't have any photos posted anywhere, but I have
emailed you a few pictures of her out in the snow a couple weeks
ago.

Her diet consists of 1/4 cup of pellets daily with unlimited grass hay
and roughly a cup of fresh veggies on the side, mostly romaine
lettuce, parsley and other herbs, and/or mixed salad greens (mesclun
mix).  She gets a small piece of fruit (usually a slice of apple or a
small piece of banana) once a week.  The pellets are alfalfa based and
we get them in large bags at an agricultural feed store (co-op) since
it is more cost effective when feeding four hungry rabbits!  We never
give our buns people food like breads/cereal or cookies or anything
like that, so I guess maybe it is the alfalfa pellets?  Are the
timothy pellets more expensive than alfalfa pellets?  I have never
seen them before. Can I get them at any old pet store?  Do you think
they would be available at the co-op?  I will have to look into it.

Many thanks!
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 06:23 GMT
Half  timmy, half alfalfa is ok too.  You don't need to throw out your
original pellets.

Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda

<snip>

>I guess maybe it is the alfalfa pellets?  Are the
>timothy pellets more expensive than alfalfa pellets?  I have never
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Many thanks!
>  
Arlette & Cocoa - 22 Feb 2008 07:18 GMT
From what you've described, it seems your rabbits have a great diet and
don't really need any changes. My only other question is, do you feed them
together or apart? Could Petunia be eating some of the other buns' pellets?
Sometimes multiple buns don't get equal portions.

She doesn't look too fat to me, but I wouldn't let her get heavier than she
is now. It sounds like she gets a good amount of exercise, though rabbits
can get a bit lethargic in winter, like people. You could try reducing her
pellet intake a wee bit and encouraging more hay intake.

Timothy pellets tend to be more expensive than alfalfa ones.
I use the Oxbow Hay brand from the US. I used to mail order them in, but now
I buy them at my vet's office, so they are more costly. They used to be the
only maker of Timmy pellets.
I know there are a couple of other companies now. I believe American Pet
Diner makes them. Not sure what you might find where you are.

You know, you should join the Ontario Rabbit Education Org (OREO). Most of
the members are in southern ON. I'm the only member in my region.
Other bunny owners down there might have leads as to where to buy certain
products.
Here's the website to the OREO forum. I don't think you have to join up with
OREO to use the forum.
http://forum.ontariorabbits.org/
Here's the OREO website http://www.ontariorabbits.org/ Lots of good info
there.

Signature

God Bless,
Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/
Need a vet? Click here
<http://www.rabbitvet.net>
For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here
<http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>

jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 06:34 GMT
oh Professor... you and I must have posted at the same time!  Thank
you for your nutritional tips.  I will definitely increase our buns'
intake of fresh greens - it is so much easier in the summer when
things are in season, as veggies seem to be so expensive at this time
of year!  Oh well, spring is soon upon us here in frosty Ontario (I
hope).  I did not know about the walnuts and cranberries, and will
incorporate them this week.  I am sure our girls will be delighted,
for the most part - Petunia is actually the picky one, which is
surprising since she seems kind of chubby, but we shall see how it
goes.  And I guess no more bananas!  she'll be disappointed about
that, as it is one of her favourites ha ha.
The hay we get is awesome; I am sometimes tempted to try it myself, it
smells so good!  ha ha   My husband's uncle is a  farmer and raises
Simmental cattle in Lindsay, Ontario.  He gives us a square bale of
Timothy a few times a year, and it is stored in a cool dry place in
the house so I think we are ok on the hay front.

thanks again!
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 06:46 GMT
Some banana is ok, but only a thin slice.  Your girl will appreciate a
small treat even more!

Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda

<snip>

>oh Professor... you and I must have posted at the same time!  Thank
>you for your nutritional tips.  

<snip>

> And I guess no more bananas!  she'll be disappointed about
>that, as it is one of her favourites ha ha.
>  
Arlette & Cocoa - 22 Feb 2008 17:49 GMT
NO NUTS! They are very fattening. Unless they have some physical issues that
require added calorie support, I wouldn't give nuts. I wouldn't give
craisins either personally. They do put sugar on dried cranberries.
If you're only giving fruit once a week, I wouldn't cut out a tiny bit of
fruit. I still say, reduce the pellets a very tiny amount and encourage more
hay by giving fresh more often.

Sorry PS, I disagree with you here.

Signature

God Bless,
Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/
Need a vet? Click here
<http://www.rabbitvet.net>
For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here
<http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>

pickproof - 22 Feb 2008 19:30 GMT
> NO NUTS! They are very fattening. Unless they have some physical issues that
> require added calorie support, I wouldn't give nuts. I wouldn't give
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here
> <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>

I agree with Arlette,
In my post I did not mention unlimited fresh timothy hay.  And Papya
Jack gets one mellon ball of fresh Paypya once a week.  I get the rest
of the Papaya lol !  Nuts are not good.  I would not feed any store
bought rabbit treats either.
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 19:37 GMT
I dry my own cranberries.  We call them  Professor Sparkles home dried
cranberries.   Take a push pin, a needle is too thin.  Poke two holes in
each berry at ninety degrees to each other.   Bake at 190 degrees for
four hours and allow to sit for two days on a plate.  Cranberries are
credited with preventing urinary tract infections.

Here's a website with another method.

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/snacks/r/driedcran.htm

Only walnuts have the magnesium required to fight calcium build up in
the bladder.  They are best fed during shedding when your rabbit needs
the extra protein.

Nuts have been documented in the recovery of weak hind quarters in
rabbits.  If any one remembers who talked about this please give me a
heads up

Most of what  I have said has been repeated on this group before.  I
have checked out most of what I have advocated.
Beth gave me the heads up on magnesium in walnuts.

Yes, nuts can be fattening if over done.  I would give no more than 1/2
walnut per rabbit per week.
If your rabbit has sludge in his or her urine this will cure it.

Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda

>NO NUTS! They are very fattening. Unless they have some physical issues that
>require added calorie support, I wouldn't give nuts. I wouldn't give
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>  
pickproof - 22 Feb 2008 13:16 GMT
> hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> lisa

Hello,

My vet is recomending 1/8th cup of timothy pellets per 5 pounds of
body weight and 1 cup of greens per pound of body weight per day.
Jack is a dutch but I believe this would be a good rule of thumb for
all breeds.  A good check up with a Bun savy vet would be a good idea
they could let you know what an ideal weight for the specific breed
would be.

John, Connie and Jack
Professor - 22 Feb 2008 15:35 GMT
A coffee scoop is just about 1/8 cup.  I believe your measurement for
greens is a good one. most don't feed enough greens. It's hard for me to
know exactly what my boys eat, as they all eat together.  It's a food
fight... LOL.  In pounds (approximately) Jump is 5,  Wizard 4, and
little Zolo, less than 3.  :-D

Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda

>  
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>John, Connie and Jack
>  
Arlette & Cocoa - 22 Feb 2008 17:53 GMT
Vets have diverse opinions on how many pellets a rabbit should be eating.
Some vets would tell you not to feed any pellets at all. It is one of those
individual rabbit issues, that is why I said try reducing the pellets a
small amount and encourage more hay to see if that makes a difference.

Any drastic diet changes can cause tummy upset, so don't drastically reduce
food or change it.
If you want to give more greens, try more herbs: cilantro, parsley, dill are
favourites. Just give tiny amounts to see how their system reacts to it.

Signature

God Bless,
Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/
Need a vet? Click here
<http://www.rabbitvet.net>
For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here
<http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>

Bisky - 24 Feb 2008 18:10 GMT
> Hello,
>
> My vet is recomending 1/8th cup of timothy pellets per 5 pounds of
> body weight and 1 cup of greens per pound of body weight per day.
> Jack is a dutch but I believe this would be a good rule of thumb for
> all breeds.

A good rule of thumb, yes. There are some caveats, though.

Always adjust based on your rabbit's weight. If your rabbit is
overweight, decrease the amount of pellets and energy dense veggies. If
your rabbit is underweight, increase the amount of pellets and / or
energy dense veggies.

Larger rabbits will need less food per pound of body weight than
smaller rabbits. So a 4 pound rabbit may only need 1/8 of a cup, but a
9 pound rabbit may only need 1/4 cup.

Some rabbits have very high metabolisms. My Tucker was skinny and I
could not keep weight on him. His buddy, Wanda, was perpetually tubby.
I would try to sneak him calories when I could, but it was a challenge
to balance their diets. After careful watching, I realized that Tucker
was even eating way more of the food than she was, he was just a
horribly bred bunny, poor guy.

High fiber alfalfa pellets (like Purina HF) have a similar calorie an
nutrient profile as timothy pellets and are an option.

Sick rabbits need more calories. My Bear (10 pounds) was getting purina
green bag pellets mashed with 1/2 banana every day towards the end of
his life, and he was still losing weight. ALWAYS monitor your rabbit.

b
jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 20:57 GMT
Well, since my girls generally hate each other's guts, they are all
fed separately so it is darn near impossible for Petunia to be eating
anyone else's food.  (well, they all hate each other with the
exception of Chicken and Hoppie... Chicken LOVES Hoppie and would love
to be with her more than anything in the world, but Hoppie only
tolerates her if I am around to supervise... I think it is a case of
age differences - Hoppie is a wise old girl of eight and has settled
down, while Chicken is just under two and gets a little rambunctious
for Hoppie's liking).  I am going to look for timothy pellets, and
maybe give them just to Petunia for now (or a mix of timothy/alfalfa)
since if they are too expensive I can't afford to give them to
everyone right now!  I like to think that we feed our buns pretty well
- pet health/nutrition has always been very important in our household
- most of the time our pets eat better than we do!

Do you suppose they would eat fresh cranberries?  I love cranberry
sauce and I make it all year 'round rather than just at holidays, so I
always have a bag of cranberries in the house.  Is there any advantage
of the dried berries over fresh?  I guess maybe the dried ones (even
though they are not sweetened with sugar) would be sweeter because the
natural sugars in the fruit are concentrated in their dried form, and
therefore are more appealing to buns.  Although it seems safe to me,
is there any reason why I should not try giving them fresh cranberries
(if they will eat them, of course)?

I visit the OREO website frequently, but have never used their forum
and am not a member.  I will have to look into it further.

once again, thanks for all the great info... you are all so amazing!
I learn something new every time I'm here ha ha
Arlette & Cocoa - 23 Feb 2008 05:01 GMT
Yes, you can give fresh cranberries. Cocoa loves them, but again, just try a
small bit first to see how they react. When Cocoa was having his bladder
issues, he got a fresh cranberry daily.

You don't have to be a member of OREO to use the forum, just register with
the forum.
Signature

God Bless,
Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/
Need a vet? Click here
<http://www.rabbitvet.net>
For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here
<http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>

Professor - 23 Feb 2008 05:58 GMT
I think the rabbits like the consistency dried berries.  It's a rabbit
thing!  Why do they like wires?

Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda

>Well, since my girls generally hate each other's guts, they are all
>fed separately so it is darn near impossible for Petunia to be eating
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>I learn something new every time I'm here ha ha
>  
jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 21:05 GMT
I have joined a photo sharing site, so here are some pictures of
Petunia in the snow just recently, so you can all judge her pudge
factor... let me know what you think!
jerkface - 22 Feb 2008 21:06 GMT
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24027622@N02/sets/72157603965314985/
Arlette & Cocoa - 23 Feb 2008 05:04 GMT
Great pics! Petunia is very pretty :)

Signature

God Bless,
Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/
Need a vet? Click here
<http://www.rabbitvet.net>
For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here
<http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c>

pinktrixrabbit - 24 Feb 2008 21:35 GMT
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/24027622@N02/sets/72157603965314985/

Oh what a cutie!

Lisa, Hershey, Boo Boo, Louise & Sharkey (Thelma, Wendy & Cartman FTB)
Martha - 23 Feb 2008 20:48 GMT
> hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> lisa

When we brought Roxie in for her annual wellness check the vet weighed
her and even though we kept her on the same diet (2 coffee scoops/day
of pellets mixed 50/50 alfalfa/timothy, greens,unlimited grass hay,
and very tiny piece of fruit) she had gained one pound in a year.  He
could feel the excess fat and said she had to lose weight and he
wanted to be able to feel her waist again.  He suggested we cut out
all pellets.  I've not quite done that, but she is now down to less
than 1 T pellets/day & I suspect that she was eating more because she
probably finished Biscuit's pellets too.
Anyway, the vet can tell you what's up.
Martha
Bisky - 24 Feb 2008 18:00 GMT
> hello all,
>
> Just out of curiosity, how do I know if my rabbit is fat?  I mean, how
> fat is TOO fat?

You want to be able to feel the nubs of her spine if you run your hand
over her back. They sound feel like your knuckles. If you can't feel
the nubs, she's too heavy. You should be able to feel her ribs with
no/little pressure.

If you can't feel her bone structure she is too heavy. There are a
couple things you can do. The easiest is to reduce the amount of
pellets. You'll also want to feed lots of greens, but limit the amount
of carrots and other energy dense veggies.

b
jerkface - 25 Feb 2008 12:53 GMT
> You want to be able to feel the nubs of her spine if you run your hand
> over her back. They sound feel like your knuckles. If you can't feel
> the nubs, she's too heavy. You should be able to feel her ribs with
> no/little pressure.

I can feel her spine, hooray!  Maybe I just have a chubby rabbit
instead of a fat rabbit... ha ha

________________________________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24027622@N02/
Professor - 25 Feb 2008 21:46 GMT
That's what my vet says.  I can feel Jumps spine easily.  After watching
him for three years, she says, "That 's just his build".  She, amongst
other things, does the spine test too.  Still, he will always be the
BFR.  Too skinny is not good for a rabbit!

Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda

>>You want to be able to feel the nubs of her spine if you run your hand
>>over her back. They sound feel like your knuckles. If you can't feel
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/24027622@N02/
>  
 
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