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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rabbits / November 2008Need opinions - Catnip sick - weak back end
Hi everyone, Sorry to blast back to the group with a problem, but I know where to come for bunny experience! Catnip is blind and probably 10-11 years old. In the last two weeks she started losing the use of her rear legs. It would come and go but now she cannot balance on them -- she just wobbles until she falls on her side. She spends most of her time just laying, she can only rotate in a circle using her front legs. The vet did x-rays and blood tests and can't find anything obvious. She has some bone spurs/arthritis and is now on pain meds, but it doesn't make a huge difference. The vet thinks more is going on. She has only nibbled food for the last several days and now is only eating if we stick banana in front of her nose. She drank a little bit tonight and we are giving sub-q fluids. Tonight, she is having trouble with her front legs too. She almost seems dizzy. Either that or more weak in general. She tries to sit up for a minute and groom herself but starts swaying and falls. Now I'm wondering if this could be E. Cuniculi. The vet says I can bring her back in for a blood test but she has not had good luck treating it. I know blood tests don't show active infections, only exposure during their lifetime. Here's the question, what is that possibility? The vet is very worried Catnip has a tumor or something horrible that is undetected, given her age. Should we drag her in for a blood test? I hate so much to give up on her, but it's hard to see her like this and especially barely eating. So far I have not force-fed her because I hate to do that to her with her circumstances. If I knew this was temporary and she was younger and had a good chance, that would be one thing. If this is nearing the end for her, I'm hesitant to make it uncomfortable for her. Guess I needed to talk too. Any experience with what your bunnies went through for hind leg problems or EC or anything similar would be appreciated. Thanks! Rhonda (little Bambi is being a wonderful nurse) > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Rhonda (little Bambi is being a wonderful nurse) you don't have to take blood test to give the med for ec. i would just get her on panacur. it is cheap and easy to use . onece a day. it really could be anything. amber gave out on use of his legs from arthritus at ten years old. he started falling alot. he was completely disssable the last couple years of his life. does sound like it could be pain. i would get some glucossamine and condroiton for now 250 mg. half a tab once a day. adequan is also something you can consider. it is given in shots. amber was in alot of pain alot. i treated him with natural stuff and in a few months he got alot better. it is more than what i listed here. it is easy to do. i also gave him hot butt baths. i bought a foot jacuzzi and put epsoms slat in it and bathed him everday to ease the pain. Hey Beth, thanks for the info. Where do you get panacur? Does it have to come from a vet? Thanks! Rhonda > you don't have to take blood test to give the med for ec. i would just > get her on panacur. it is cheap and easy to use . onece a day. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > also gave him hot butt baths. i bought a foot jacuzzi and put epsoms > slat in it and bathed him everday to ease the pain. > Hey Beth, thanks for the info. > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > - Show quoted text - yes. you vet should get yout he pancure. it is the best way to make sure of the correct dose. This morning, Catnip left for the bridge. OMG, she fought so hard. At 4am I heard strange noises and it was her, fighting to stay with us. Her struggle broke my heart into a million pieces. Walter was able to get a shot of pain killer into her and she left us within a half hour. I hope she didn't suffer for too long. The last couple of weeks I would think Catnip was at the end and then she would eat something with gusto. She never quite ate enough and would not swallow when I gave her Critical Care. We just kept trying new veggies until something interested her. She also got fluids. I kept hoping to turn a corner. She was so tired though, and gave up trying to move at all. She slept almost all of the time. At least she is free now. Thanks everyone, for caring. Rhonda (and Nurse Bambi, who is eating but spent most of the day sulking) >>Hi everyone, >> [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > also gave him hot butt baths. i bought a foot jacuzzi and put epsoms > slat in it and bathed him everday to ease the pain. God bless you and, God keep your little friend. We all love you very much. We're sending as much love and comfort as we can. Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda > This morning, Catnip left for the bridge. OMG, she fought so hard. At > 4am I heard strange noises and it was her, fighting to stay with us. [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >> also gave him hot butt baths. i bought a foot jacuzzi and put epsoms >> slat in it and bathed him everday to ease the pain. Thanks, Professor. I do appreciate that. Rhonda > God bless you and, God keep your little friend. > We all love you very much. > We're sending as much love and comfort as we can. > > Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda Hi So sorry to hear of this. Losing anyone is really tough, and you're never prepared for it even though you may think you are. God Bless. Richard > This morning, Catnip left for the bridge. OMG, she fought so hard. At 4am > I heard strange noises and it was her, fighting to stay with us. Her [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >> also gave him hot butt baths. i bought a foot jacuzzi and put epsoms >> slat in it and bathed him everday to ease the pain. Thank you, Rich. You are right about not being prepare. I swore she could leave at any second for the last few weeks, but then I started thinking she could live forever. It was so hard to watch her leave and not be able to save her. Rhonda > Hi > > So sorry to hear of this. Losing anyone is really tough, and you're never > prepared for it even though you may think you are. >This morning, Catnip left for the bridge. OMG, she fought so hard. At >4am I heard strange noises and it was her, fighting to stay with us. Her >struggle broke my heart into a million pieces. Walter was able to get a >shot of pain killer into her and she left us within a half hour. I hope >she didn't suffer for too long. Rhonda, I am so sorry for your loss. Catnip will be missed. I always loved her pictures on the holiday cards. She was a beautiful rexy girl. ((HUGS)) Lisa, Hershey, Boo Boo, Louise & Sharkey (Thelma, Wendy & Cartman FTB) Thanks, Lisa. You've had so much to deal with yourself. She was ornery enough to give me some good card poses. Take care, Rhonda > Rhonda, I am so sorry for your loss. Catnip will be missed. I always > loved her pictures on the holiday cards. She was a beautiful rexy > girl. ((HUGS)) > > Lisa, Hershey, Boo Boo, Louise & Sharkey (Thelma, Wendy & Cartman FTB) Oh dearest Rhonda, I'm so very sorry about Catnip. She was a wonderful bunny. It sounds like her liver was failing there. You gave her a good long life. I'm sure she'll be binkying with Cocoa until we see them again. *sigh*  SignatureGod Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c> A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel. Proverbs 12:10 Thank you, Arlette, I don't know what was failing, but something happened. She had blood tests at the beginning of all of this and her organs were fine. She was not eating enough though and was so lethargic. We had started her on the rimadyl on a Friday and she was eating much more on Saturday, then that Sunday she stopped eating anything. After she was off the medicine a day she started nibbling again. It seems that had the same effect on her as the metacam. It could all be coincidence but I was afraid her gi tract was too fragile to take those medications. I had her on acidophilus too. Thanks so much for all of your help and tips. I had hope that she would make it. Take care, Rhonda > Oh dearest Rhonda, > I'm so very sorry about Catnip. She was a wonderful bunny. It sounds like > her liver was failing there. > You gave her a good long life. I'm sure she'll be binkying with Cocoa until > we see them again. *sigh* Bless her heart, Rhonda. Your super flying bunny. Bless you and Walter, too, for giving her such a wonderful life that she wanted to stick around long after her body gave out. Hugs to you all, Nona Yes, she was such a good flyer! Right before I realized she was losing her eyesight, she was doing binkies in a tight circle. She also ran down the length of a wall -- toenails clicking against it as she ran. Later, it dawned on me that she was doing her best to have fun while not being able to see well. What a character. I'll pass on your wishes to Walter, too. He so much calmer about the medical icky things than me. I fell apart when Catnip went into distress and his quick thinking right away got more pain medicine into her. Thanks again, Nona. Hope your crew are all doing well! Rhonda > Bless her heart, Rhonda. Your super flying bunny. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Nona Hi Rhonda, I agree with Beth...It sounds like pain to me. What dose does the vet have C on? I'm assuming it's metacam? First of all it can take a bit of time for it to work, secondly many vets don't use a high enough dose. Feeling like crap can cut down on their eating. Also spinal issues can affect the gut depending on which vertebraes are involved. I used www.medirabbit.com (there's a section there on EC) to determine Cocoa's metacam intake; I began with the lowest dose for his weight and gradually raised it until I saw he was comfortable. http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Analgesics/safe_analgesics.htm Giving it twice a day instead of once made a world of difference. Metacam can metabolize out in 12 to 24 hours depending on your rabbit's metabolism. You take the dose the vet told you and give it twice a day...not halve the dose. It was miraculous the difference I saw in Cocoa's pain level. As you may remember, he was on metacam for about the last three or four years of his disabled life. Cocoa went through this whole thing...it is quite common for old rabbits to have hind end issues. The front end problem may signal something else or just the extra strain from the weak back end overtaking her. It may help if you join up with the disabled rabbits group I belong to...there are lots of people experienced with aging and disabled rabbits there, and lots of resources at the site. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/disabledrabbits/' For now, I would try gentle massage of the back, thighs and gut area, heat can make her feel better: a hot water bottle wrapped in towels for her back. Make sure she's got props to keep her upright and comfortable. How is her peeing/pooping. If she becomes incontinent, expressing her bladder at intervals will keep her clean. I'll say a prayer for dear Catnip. Giving a good life to an aging rabbit is possible...just focus on their needs one day at a time, just like any old person. It can be work, but learning ways to cope will make it easier, and you'll be glad you did. There's a great book you might want to get http://www.amazon.ca/When-Your-Rabbit-Needs-Special/dp/159580031X/ref=sr_1_1?ie= UTF8&s=books&qid=1226591208&sr=8-1 I recommend it for anyone with ill or disabled rabbits, and NOT just because Cocoa is in there. I'm in the middle of reading it now and it is very helpful and encouraging. SignatureGod Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c> A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel. Proverbs 12:10 Hi Arlette, Wow, you have a lot of info! I have to run to work but will read it better tonight. Catnip seems to be peeing okay, but got diarrhea on metacam. We have her on torbutal now instead. It's not an anti-flamatory, just a pain killer. I almost feel like trying the metacam again. Okay, will read more later, thanks! Rhonda > Hi Rhonda, > I agree with Beth...It sounds like pain to me. What dose does the vet have C [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Cocoa is in there. I'm in the middle of reading it now and it is very > helpful and encouraging. Rhonda, I think the drug you've got Catnip on is a strong narcotic...they start with torb...my brain cells fail me at the moment torbugesic, ahh, I found it Butorphananol (Torbugesic, Torbutal, Stadol) they will slow down the gut all together. I would advise against this. Tell the vet to try Rimadyl instead...it is another NSAID that is easier on the gut. Not many rabbits that I know of react to metacam with diarrhea, but the odd one might have gut upset. I would not use the narcotic drugs. They are usually used as a last resort for very intense pain like post - op pain. It dopes them up. Please tell the vet to reconsider. Many vets don't have much experience with very old and disabled rabbits. If you go to the disabled rabbits group, there are lots of experienced people there...some with more knowledge at the medical end. You said the vet saw spurs and arthritis - this was on the spine x-rays? These things will cause the disability you are seeing now. Cocoa's spinal x-rays also showed bone spurs...Ronie looked at them. Visible signs of pain are: not wanting to move, lack of appetite or just nibbling, tremors, increased respiration, tension in the body, frustration behaviour like chewing, thrashing things, digging and being uncareful about taking foods from your hand. Cocoa would breath very fast and hold his body very tensely. The metacam worked wonders for him, but other buns take the Rimadyl better. Try to hand feed as much as possible. Preferably some soaking wet greens like parsley, cilantro, also hay. Is she drinking well? If not, she may need some fluid support. SignatureGod Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c> A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel. Proverbs 12:10 >Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >side. She spends most of her time just laying, she can only rotate in a >circle using her front legs. Sorry about Catnip Rhonda. I can't offer any advice, but mega vibes coming your way for your special rexy girl! Please keep us updated. Lisa, Hershey, Boo Boo, Louise & Sharkey (Thelma, Wendy & Cartman FTB) > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Rhonda (little Bambi is being a wonderful nurse) I can't help with the medical side of things, but I am wishing her good vibes that this can be treated with medicine and nothing drastic to put her in discomfort or harm's way.Sending positive vibes for Catnip. Carla Liza and Jodie. Thanks everyone for the info and the good wishes! We are still carrying on here. Catnip had a pretty good day yesterday (ate more veggies) but today is not as good. She just acts so sleepy. She lays flat out and almost falls asleep chewing. I don't know if something else is going on with her other than back pain. We're going to give her fluids tonight. We didn't last night because we thought she ate quite a few veggies. Cross your fingers, and thanks for the good thoughts. Rhonda Good luck. Things will go well. Professor, The Jump, Zolo, Wizard, & Magic Brenda > Thanks everyone for the info and the good wishes! > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Rhonda Keep the fluids up daily Rhonda...no matter if she seems better or not. I'm thinking some kidney/liver failure may be going on there. Fluids help with those. I would just give them daily as a matter of course. She does sound like she's in a hospice situation...without blood tests, it's hard to know. Did you check the colour of her eyes under her eyelids? Keep her comfortable and spend lots of time with her. Sorry I don't have more help to offer. SignatureGod Bless, Arlette, Cocoa & Brownie in heaven (See us here) http://www.flickr.com/photos/11393346@N02/ Need a vet? Click here <http://www.rabbitvet.net> For Cocoa's body sling vids Click here <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=cocoa3c> A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel. Proverbs 12:10 Just poking my nose in here -- way behind with no chance of catching up, but when an "old-timer" posts, it catches my eye. Has there been an update? Hang in there, Rhonda. Michele and Christopher Rabbit plus Todd, of course > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Rhonda (little Bambi is being a wonderful nurse) HiHi, Rhonda This is Petrina. It may due to EC, arthritus, nerves problem, kidney problem, since kidney may influence her nerves to the legs as well. This is what vet told me. If she is dizzy and turning around, she may be weak or brain problem as well. Mui's legs problem, i helped her with accupunture for more than 6 months, once in 2 weeks from a vet in hk. It helped her. With pain killer as well. She was better than.If it is kidney problem, pls ask your vet about which pain killer is more mild which won't affect her kidney. I have heard that Matacam may not be suitable. And she needs more fluid as well. Massage her legs are needed, coz dun wanna see any contraction of the muscle. Keep it up. Petrina > Just poking my nose in here -- way behind with no chance of catching up, but > when an "old-timer" posts, it catches my eye. [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > - 顯示被引用文字 - > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Rhonda (little Bambi is being a wonderful nurse) Hello Rhonda, how is Catnip doing now? Concerned and caring and sending vibes still. Carla Liza and Jodie. |
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