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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rats / September 2005



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Fatal Haemorrhage - and some new additions

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Marian Bennett - 26 Sep 2005 23:43 GMT
Hello all,

Not been on line much lately - too much work, an allotment and a bout of RSI
conspire to keep me a brief spectator!

Anyway - five days ago I came home from work and found Saffron (one of my
seven girls) looking very poorly with half-closed eyes and what looked like
a dried nosebleed - there was a small amount of blood in the cage.  She was
lethargic when I picked her up, but the vets had closed and I really
couldn't see any point in distressing her further.  She didn't seem to be in
any pain - just half-asleep - so I gently put her back in with her friends.
She perked up the next day - eating and drinking - but her pink eyes looked
very pale - could that be loss of blood?  Anyway I had her out with the
others last night as we cleaned the cage - she pottered about a bit, came
for a cuddle, was a bit unsteady and had a very 'light' feel to her body
(you know how they can suddenly start to feel insubstantial).  Anyway she
went back in with the others and the last I saw of her that night was when
she was nibbling on a piece of best Lincoln sausage.  She was asleep with
the rest when I left for work the next morning.

I've just come home and found Saffron dead at the bottom of the cage with
bright gouts of blood everywhere - on the platforms, down the tube and a
little in the bedding near where she died. She hadn't been dead too long as
she was not completely cold - her mouth was covered in blood and she had
obviously bled to death through it.  I checked her teeth to see if I had not
noticed a malocclusion - but they were fine.  Has anyone else ever had a rat
die this way?  None of my rat-owning friends has and I haven't seen a post
about it.  I do realise that there was absolutely nothing I could have done
about it (and probably not the vet either) and in a way I'm glad I wasn't at
home when it happened because it would have been horrible to see and not be
able to do anything but watch her die.
I just wondered if anyone had any theories or experience of this?

I also lost my oldest rat, Shu, the other week after a very rapid decline -
she was good at adopting the new little ones.  On the plus side I have
adopted two boys who were well past their sell-by date at the local garden
centre (7 months old) and I managed to get a BOGOF deal for Hector and Harry
(he was supposed to be Achilles but that would have been completely against
character!).  I've never owned boys before - these are a lot less
adventurous than my girls and Harry, who's my first Dumbo, is virtually
blind.  He must have the worst eyesight of any rat I've had - still he seems
to be coming out of himself a bit.

Sorry for the long post,

Cheers

Marian and 6+2
jjfr - 27 Sep 2005 02:41 GMT
Marian,
First let me say I am so sorry for your losses. Sweet little girls are
so hard to say goodbye to.
Second, let me say "congrats!" on your two new boys. We have 6 boys and
they are sooooooooo much fun (big squishes who love scritches). I am
sure that Hector and Harry will be that way soon. (I really like their
names, btw.)
In response to Saffron's tragic death, we lost a little girl in a
similar fashion. Our sweetie, Nosey, was typically a go-go-go girl, but
one night she didn't even get out of her hammock. I picked her up and
she was bleeding from her vaginal area (not good at all in girl ratties,
typically a sign of a horrid myco infection). She had blood all over her
& the hammock, so we cleaned her all up and got some water in her, gave
her some pain medication, and prayed she would heal. Unfortunately, the
next night, she went into respiratory distress and could not recover.
She died in my husbands arms. I hate myco.
I'm not sure that was Saffron's problem. In fact, I don't think it was.
BUT it might have been a terrible myco infection that only distressed
her nasal passages, and during a sneezing fit, a vessel ruptured. Don't
quote me on that though. I'm sure there are some people here who can
give you a more informative, knowledgeable answer.
Again, I'm so sorry for your losses. And so happy for your gains. Such a
bittersweet time for you, I'm sure.
Jamie

> Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> Marian and 6+2

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Mom to:

Lester, Nicky, Bear, Willie, Davis, George, Lenny, & Squiggy;

and Sam & Nosey who are playing, munching, and bruxing at Rainbow Bridge.

http://jgr.isa-geek.net/~jjf_1979/

Kate - 27 Sep 2005 03:29 GMT
> Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> Marian and 6+2

Hi Marian,

I am sorry I know nothing about bleeding in Rats...:(  I can only
imagine how distressing it must have been to discover that though ...
kind thoughts are sent to you on the loss of your 2 Rat Bags.  Imagine
how happy they are now though.... Eat all that choclate and never put on
any weight... It has to be a great place.

Kind regards Kate

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Tracey - 27 Sep 2005 10:15 GMT
> Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Marian and 6+2

I'm so sorry to hear of your loss of Saffron and Shu.  I'm afraid I can't
shed any light on what was wrong with Saffron, I've never experienced it
before.

I hope your new little additions bring you much joy, and help heal the
sadness you feel over Saffron and Shu.  Males rats are just fab, give them a
bit of time and they'll be coming to you for lots of cuddles and attention!

Tracey
Joanne - 27 Sep 2005 16:34 GMT
> Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> Marian and 6+2

Hi Marian, I'm so sorry for your losses.
I've no experience with a rat bleeding from the mouth. My only thoughts
perhaps internal bleeding? She's better now..
CongRATS on your new additions. I'm sure you are going to enjoy these boys?
It was good reading you Marian!!!

Joanne
Owned by 14 rats
bevluvsrats - 27 Sep 2005 17:39 GMT
> I've just come home and found Saffron dead at the bottom of the cage with
> bright gouts of blood everywhere - on the platforms, down the tube and a
> little in the bedding near where she died.   Has anyone else ever had a rat
> die this way?

Hi Marian, I'm so sorry you've had to go through this, while I've not
actually heard of this specifically, it does ring alarm bells with me,
is it possible that she got hold of some poison?

Most rat poisons these days work by causing haemorrhaging within the
rats, Warfarin in particular (which is also used as a blood thinner for
people with blood and heart problems)and so if she got hold of
something like that, it could answer your question.

Other than that, while it's possible that she ruptured something
through sneezing, I would have said it's less likely, I've never known
excessive blood loss through the mouth or nose, and I've never heard of
it causing death. Did you happen to notice whether there was any blood
around her back end? Particularly the vulva? Another possibility (and
something that someone else posted about) is Hematometra or Pyometra.
I've had much experience with both of these and either antibiotics or
spaying are the treatments, as long as you catch it quickly enough.

Pyometra literally means uterus full of pus, and hematometra means
uterus full of blood. In both cases they can be caused by infection,
and sometimes hormonal changes, but both cases can become very serious
very quickly. Rats don't menstruate so if you see blood around their
vaginal area, it's always best to go straight to the vet. It's possible
that she was cleaning herself up and that's why it was in and around
her mouth.

I'm sorry I can't ofer you any more help than that, but she'll be happy
where she is now, as someone else said, all that chocolate! lol

Hugs

Bev x

<:3 )~~
Owner of Clubrats 2 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/clubrats2/#

Visit my new and improved ratty website!!
http://www.freewebs.com/bevluvsrats/index.htm

*It has recently been discovered, that research causes cancer in rats!*
SqueakyWee - 28 Sep 2005 13:06 GMT
Hiya,

Slightly late replying to this - sorry :)

Just to say that one of my Dumboes died in a very similar way to your
Saffron a few years ago. It was heartbreaking.

She started bleeding heavily from the nose and mouth one evening and was
rushed to the emergency vet straight away. It was touch and go, but they
managed to save her. With lots of tlc she seemed to recover well, but about
a month later it happened again... We were too late that time though, and by
the time we found her she was taking her dying breaths. We don't know what
caused it and couldn't afford the bill for an autopsy, but the vet seemed to
think she was a heamophiliac. Whether or not she was, I don't know.

Sorry about Saffron :(

Kat

> Hello all,
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Marian and 6+2
Tania - 29 Sep 2005 21:05 GMT
Hi Marian,

Nice to see you back, although in a mixture of sad news, and happy news.

Sending my love and hugs for you with the sad loss of Saffron, I can only
imagine how hard it was to find her like that. It's of small comfort now but
she is happy at The Bridge tonight, and free from her ailments. She is
frolicking with Shu I am sure! :-)

On a lighter note - Hector & Harry sound fab! I look forward to hearing lots
more about them!

Take Care x

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Morpheus,Ulysses and Pluto <:3__) ~~~
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> Hello all,
>
> Not been on line much lately - too much work, an allotment and a bout of
> RSI

> conspire to keep me a brief spectator!
>
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>
> Marian and 6+2
 
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