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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rats / February 2006question about peach
If peach is a hairless then will her babies automagically be hairless? or what? > If peach is a hairless then will her babies automagically be hairless? or > what? No, unless dad is a hairless or a hairless carrier. Joanne Owned by 15 rats >> If peach is a hairless then will her babies automagically be hairless? or >> what? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Joanne > Owned by 15 rats When I got her, she had only hairless cagemates, probably because the pet shop had not gotten the rats more than a week or two before that. Knowing the date of her babies' birth and the date I bought her, Peach was pregnant about five days before I got her. I hope that she didn't get knocked up by one of her brothers. But considering the rats come from a breeder then the group the pet shop got probably were all brothers and sisters, right? That would predispose the babies to defects and illness, wouldn't it? - NRen2k5 >>> If peach is a hairless then will her babies automagically be >>> hairless? or [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - NRen2k5 Oooh, they will all be hairless then. Actually, and I know there's a lot of controversy about this but inbreeding in rats is not really a bad thing. It can bring out the worst but it can also bring out the best. Many breeders do this to weed out the bad. Also, inbreeding among rats that live together means they are not exposed to a different strain of myco meaning the babies will only have one strain passed on and easily treated if it ever flares up, keeping in mind that no new rats are brought in. Joanne Owned by 15 rats >>>> If peach is a hairless then will her babies automagically be >>>> hairless? or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Oooh, they will all be hairless then. Oh, poo. Every last one of them? I was kinda hoping there'd be a fluffy or two in the bunch. - NRen2k5 > Oooh, they will all be hairless then. Actually, and I know there's a > lot of controversy about this but inbreeding in rats is not really a > bad thing. Maybe not necessarily a bad thing, aiui... > It can bring out the worst but it can also bring out the best. Many > breeders do this to weed out the bad. However on a related note, I'm still personally not happy about buying rats (& hence encouraging their breeding) of a variety which is directly linked with specific additional health problems - such as Rex & mega-colon. I love our two Rex, but still... it seems little different from setting out to have children with the aim that they have a disability such as deafness - just not right imo, even if it does mean they look 'prettier'. I don't know to what extent that applies to hairless, but from what I've read here I understand they can't comfortably live without the presence of haired rats & that sets of alarm bells for me, though I don't know enough to reach any firm conclusions.  SignatureMichael m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t >> Oooh, they will all be hairless then. Actually, and I know there's a >> lot of controversy about this but inbreeding in rats is not really a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > of haired rats & that sets of alarm bells for me, though I don't know > enough to reach any firm conclusions. There is no relation between rex and megacolon. But there is with high whites and megacolon. I too agree with you when it comes to mutations. I don't support the breeding of hairless, tailess, dwarf and high whites. Joanne Owned by 15 rats > There is no relation between rex and megacolon. But there is with high > whites and megacolon. Yup, sorry. Realised my mistake when mentioning the post to Cheryl. No idea what possessed me to make the jump... Oh, hang on - our only two rex rats also are our only two to have white markings... oops, that explains it. I recall the breeder mentioning the risk of megacolon when we bought them, but not knowing exactly what aspects of their appearance were an indicator of this (though I did know it was nothing to do with rex). > I too agree with you when it comes to mutations. I don't support the > breeding of hairless, tailess, dwarf and high whites. <looks genetics stuff up> Now I'm more confused. http://www.zen-rats.dk/zen-rats/mc.asp and http://www.hawthorn.org.uk/varieties.asp are both very helpful, as is http://www.ratsociety.org/articlehighwhitecont.html but now leave me wondering if our two rex, Evy & Charlie, are indeed at risk... I was under the incorrect assumption that our two guys white markings put them in an at risk category but now see it's more complex & as you say linked only to the high white gene which can be seen by the presence of certain types of white markings, some of which aren't (to me) easy to distinguish from others. Would pictures or a copy of their pedigree enable you or anyone else to help clarify if they're at risk? I've never paid much attention before to genetics as I don't care much about appearance, but now this is a health issue :/ The pedigree contains no references to odd eye & only one to a blaze - three generations back. They're sisters btw. Evy is mostly black with white paws & an asymmetric white stripe down her belly. Charlie is harder to describe as she's pretty pale to begin with (himalayan), but seems to have white markings against the pale off white colouring - also, I can't catch her atm to prod about or stare at, much to her relief ;) SignatureMichael m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t >> There is no relation between rex and megacolon. But there is with high >> whites and megacolon. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > white colouring - also, I can't catch her atm to prod about or stare at, > much to her relief ;) High whites means that during development the gene that colors the rat did not fully develop and so stop coloring the rat completely and when this happens, sometimes the colon doesn't develop properly either. So high white is usually with a big blaze or head spot, lots of white coming up her sides. Your Evy sounds like a berkshire so no worries there. If the other is a himi, then that's not high white either. So you should be in the clear. Also, ratties with megacolon are usually affected early and die around the age of 5 months. There is also late onset megacolon, which affects ratties around a year old. You know... pictures are always welcome!!!! Joanne Owned by 15 rats > High whites means that during development the gene that colors the > rat did not fully develop and so stop coloring the rat completely and > when this happens, sometimes the colon doesn't develop properly > either. So high white is usually with a big blaze or head spot, lots > of white coming up her sides. That fits with the accounts I read, though one indicated while certain markings are typical of high white, the only way to be sure high white isn't present based on appearance is if the rat is self. > Your Evy sounds like a berkshire so no worries there. If the other is > a himi, then that's not high white either. So you should be in the > clear. That would be good :) Is it impossible for a himi to also carry high white? I'll have to start talking to the chair of our local rat society - she's written a few articles on rat genetics for the society magazine. > Also, ratties with megacolon are usually affected early and die > around the age of 5 months. There is also late onset megacolon, which > affects ratties around a year old. Noted, thanks. > You know... pictures are always welcome!!!! :) I know. Sorry. We're really useless at sorting that kind of thing out. I bought digitalrat.co.uk two years ago & still haven't gotten around to implementing my rats guide to caring for humans - it didn't help that after they'd decided who was doing which bits of the web site our primary designer, Trinity, was the first rat we lost, unexpectedly in her sleep at 18 months. I didn't have the heart to carry on after that. SignatureMichael m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t I don't think megacolon is a carried gene. It's a condition that happens during development. Here's an excellent article: http://www.ratbehavior.org/megacolon.htm It all depends on cell mutation during fetal development. Many factors must come together to produce this awful condition. This is why pedigrees are important so we can see the parents' and grandparents. If there are lots of high whites/blazes or caps or split caps and odd eyes in the line, then you need to be careful when continuing that line. I have even heard of a breeder breeding a blaze with a self and producing a full litter of megacolon. Each time a breeder breeds a high white, odd eye blaze... then you risk producing a litter which will know extreme pain and a certain death. If they don't die at birth, then they suffer until they do succumb to their fatal condition, all because someone wanted to make "cute" rats. :( Joanne Owned by 15 rats > I don't think megacolon is a carried gene. It's a condition that happens > during development. > Here's an excellent article: http://www.ratbehavior.org/megacolon.htm Thanks. SignatureMichael m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t HI Michael > Evy is mostly black with white paws & an asymmetric white stripe down > her belly. Charlie is harder to describe as she's pretty pale to begin > with (himalayan), but seems to have white markings against the pale off > white colouring - also, I can't catch her atm to prod about or stare at, > much to her relief ;) AFA I can tell Evy is a berkshire and Charlie could be the same. Who bred them? SignatureRatty Hugs & Cavy Kisses Jackie Ably Hindered by The Buck House Crew. "She hadn't seen The Death of Rats lately. It was too much to hope that he was dead. In any case, it hadn't slowed him down so far." Thief of Time, Terry Pratchett. > HI Michael > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > AFA I can tell Evy is a berkshire and Charlie could be the same. > Who bred them? http://www.laikarattery.co.uk/ Thanks for the responses :) SignatureMichael m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t >> AFA I can tell Evy is a berkshire and Charlie could be the same. >> Who bred them? > > http://www.laikarattery.co.uk/ Oh from Gwen. She breeds some lovely ratkin. SignatureRatty Hugs & Cavy Kisses Jackie Ably Hindered by The Buck House Crew. "Million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten". Equal Rites, Terry Pratchett. >>> AFA I can tell Evy is a berkshire and Charlie could be the same. >>> Who bred them? >> http://www.laikarattery.co.uk/ > > Oh from Gwen. She breeds some lovely ratkin. :) Four of our current five are from Gwen - one of whom, Xev, a Russian Blue, has to go to the vets this evening. Her habitual sneezing has turned into more of a snuffle. What with our numbers down to five, but considering adding four more soon, I'm giving serious consideration to adopting Joanne's policy of periodic prophylactic nebulising with baytril. We recently saw a different vet at our regular practice & he seemed quite willing to look into dosages & so on. SignatureMichael m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t > Four of our current five are from Gwen - one of whom, Xev, a Russian > Blue, has to go to the vets this evening. Her habitual sneezing has [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > We recently saw a different vet at our regular practice & he seemed > quite willing to look into dosages & so on. It really does help when you have a vet that is open to new ideas and methods. I've been thinking lately that perhaps I should do seasonal nebulizing. I've noticed that every time the season changes, the rats go into sneezing for a few weeks, some get worse, some become better. So say when our furnaces kicks in, or the central air... it may be a good time to do the 2 week nebulizing session. Where I'm at, we really feel the change in all four seasons here. Joanne Owned by 15 rats >> Four of our current five are from Gwen - one of whom, Xev, a Russian >> Blue, has to go to the vets this evening. Her habitual sneezing has >> turned into more of a snuffle. He couldn't find anything out of the ordinary & she refused to snuffle on command, which is annoying, especially as last night she managed to sneeze into my mouth :/ She's on baytril as per usual, 0.4ml daily. >> What with our numbers down to five, but considering adding four more >> soon, I'm giving serious consideration to adopting Joanne's policy of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It really does help when you have a vet that is open to new ideas and > methods. Indeed :) On a related note, I finally remembered to ask how long a shelf life baytril (injectable) has, expecting to be told 3 to 6 months. Apparently the batch we got some from today doesn't expire until late in 2007. > I've been thinking lately that perhaps I should do seasonal > nebulizing. I've noticed that every time the season changes, the rats go > into sneezing for a few weeks, some get worse, some become better. So > say when our furnaces kicks in, or the central air... it may be a good > time to do the 2 week nebulizing session. Where I'm at, we really feel > the change in all four seasons here. Try the UK - we get a big variation too: light rain, heavy wet rain, cold stinging rain, the list goes on - though not obviously in Summer, if one's awake during those two days to see it :) SignatureMichael m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t >>> Four of our current five are from Gwen - one of whom, Xev, a Russian >>> Blue, has to go to the vets this evening. Her habitual sneezing has >>> turned into more of a snuffle. > He couldn't find anything out of the ordinary & she refused to snuffle > on command, which is annoying, especially as last night she managed to > sneeze into my mouth :/ Oh god, I laughed so much when I read this!! > She's on baytril as per usual, 0.4ml daily. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > baytril (injectable) has, expecting to be told 3 to 6 months. Apparently > the batch we got some from today doesn't expire until late in 2007. Yes, injectable Baytril is good for a couple of years. >> I've been thinking lately that perhaps I should do seasonal >> nebulizing. I've noticed that every time the season changes, the rats [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > cold stinging rain, the list goes on - though not obviously in Summer, > if one's awake during those two days to see it :) I think I would take the rain over 150cm of snow anytime. ;) Joanne Owned by 15 rats > When I got her, she had only hairless cagemates, probably because the > pet shop had not gotten the rats more than a week or two before that. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I hope that she didn't get knocked up by one of her brothers. But > considering the rats come from a breeder then the group the pet shop got What kind of breeder sells to a pet shop? SignatureMichael m r o z a t u k g a t e w a y d o t n e t |
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