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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rats / January 2007Strange behavior (kind of long)
Hi everyone, My main question is: should I be worried that my rats spend their time either fighting, harassing each other constantly, or sleeping in separate parts of the cage? Some background. Last June I adopted 2 male rats from a local breeder. They are brothers. However, they rarely ever sleep together and in the past few months, have really started to fight pretty intensely. No bloodshed though, so I've just continued to observe them. A couple of months ago, I rescued a young female rat from a snake tank. I was originally going to give her up to the humane society but she was a total darling and curled up on my shoulder and slept there on the car ride home. So I decided to keep her. In order to have them all together in one cage, I started quarantine and made an appointment with my vet to have her spayed (please don't fixate on spaying). I dropped her off, then get a phone call from them saying that my female rat was actually a male rat with undescended testicles. Imagine my shock. So after the 2 week quarantine, I started slow introductions. The boys seemed awfully interested in sniffing the new rat's tail and chasing it around, but I researched it online and it seemed within the realm of normalcy. The second time I did introductions, there was definite aggressive chasing. Then they both proceeded to mount her. Yes...her. I immediately separated them, brought her back to the vet and had her spayed (please don't fixate on vet mistakes either). After a week or so, I started introductions again. They seemed to get along well. So then I finally moved her into the main cage. For about 4 days now, the boys have done nothing but try to chase, harass, and mount her, or fight each other like usual. As a precaution, I had already put a couple of hidey-holes that were only big enough for her to fit through the opening so that she would have somewhere to hide if they got too aggressive. However, she is much more active then the boys, so she only stays in the hideouts long enough for them to wander away, then she comes out and the chase starts all over again. The boys sleep in different corners of the bottom of the cage (I also find that very odd) and she sleeps in a hideout loft that only she can reach. Is there no hope of them getting along? Are they only chasing her because they remember mounting her successfully at one time? If so, there probably isn't anything I can do except hope they forget. I apologize for being so long winded and I appreciate any advice. Thank you! ~kellyn38 With your two boys still intact, I imagine that they are just reacting like any ordinary male rat would. Their priorities would be defending their turf and finding mates. Castrating will greatly reduce these behaviours. Would you be able to get the two males castrated? Once their hormones settle they will be less interested in mounting her and less territorial. Dewi. <snip> Castrating will greatly reduce these behaviours. Would you be able to get the two males castrated? Once their hormones settle they will be less interested in mounting her and less territorial. Dewi. </snip> I was actually interested in Tardak, the chemical castration, because I'm not completely convinced that it is all hormonal. Even before the boys started seriously fighting, they weren't the best of friends. The bigger one (Euclid) is somewhat jumpy but more accepting of handling, whereas the smaller one (Ptolemy) has always been a bit nippy and bossy and less likely to come when called. I don't want to castrate either of them if it isn't going to help as I am not certain how experienced the vet is with neuters on rats (the female spay is supposed to be just like a cat, so I had a little more confidence). There is also the worry that if it doesn't calm their aggression, they would hurt each other during the healing period, since separating them could also prove problematic (I had read an article about aggressive/alpha rats being killed when returning to a colony after an illness/injury because of perceived weakness). Has anyone had any experience with the chemical castration? ~kellyn38 > <snip> > Castrating will greatly reduce these [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > ~kellyn38 Not sure where you read your article, but I've never heard of a rat killing another rat after returning to the colony.If the separation is a long one, then intros would be needed but if it's just a day, usually that's all it takes for recovery of a neuter, then it's just pop back in the cage. I've had a few males neutered and no problems putting them back in the cage. But... I would give them some time first to see if they will settle down with the girl. It usually takes a week or two before the males realize that she won't give 'em any. And then they can start the bonding process. :) I haven't heard about Tardak, but I have heard a lady claiming that Lupron helped her rat become less aggressive. But before you do anything, I would give them some time first.  SignatureJoanne Owned by 23 rats. Webshots: http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 ------------------------------------------------------- ~Ignorance is not innocence but sin. *Robert Browning* <snip> But... I would give them some time first to see if they will settle down with the girl. It usually takes a week or two before the males realize that she won't give 'em any. And then they can start the bonding process. :) </snip> Heheh...I didn't realize the boys were going to be that persistent. I have no problem giving them time to sort themselves out. As long as they don't hurt her or each other, I'll guess I'll see how it goes. I hadn't ever seen these behaviors in my previous pair of boys, so I was just really concerned. Being as they were from someone who breeds for temperament, I had expected them to be much more mellow. My other boys never fought (at least that I ever saw). Although in retrospect, my previous boys's scrotal sacks never hung out like these new boys do (except if they were feeling uncomfortably warm). Maybe these guys are just extra testosterone-ey. <grin> ~kellyn38 > Hi everyone, > My main question is: should I be worried that my rats spend their time [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Thank you! > ~kellyn38 Welcome to the groups Kellyn and rats! Yes it's normal for your rats to be constantly at each other especially with a new chick around. ;) Give them a few weeks and they will soon learn that the new girl is never going into heat and this should calm them down some. How old are the boys now? SignatureJoanne Owned by 23 rats. Webshots: http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 ------------------------------------------------------- ~Ignorance is not innocence but sin. *Robert Browning* <snip> How old are the boys now? -- Joanne </snip> They were born June 2, 2006, so that makes them a little over 7 months old. I'm sorry to hear about the rats, them being 7 months, its around that time when their hormones are kicking in. I've had it with a few of my rats. I looked into Tardak, with some conflicting opinions. Some rats it will work with, some it wont, and you can only use it for a maximum of three months. I didnt bother with it in the end. I think the fact that you have introduced these rats when their hormones are raging is probably why they are like they are. I persevered with mine, and only interfered if it got really nasty. Fortunately, no blood was drawn, and only once did I have a rat come up with an abscess. Thats something you will have to look out for, some cuts are not visible, and can turn into abscesses quite quickly. Interfering too much in squabbles can make rats frustrated, and more aggressive, because the squabbles just dont reach a conclusion. At the moment, it sounds like the newbie might be handling things better that what you realise, if its coming out from hiding after the others have gone. I havent had to get any of my males spayed, so far. The squabbles just petered out after a while. Signaturehttp://www.furrycritters.co.uk http://community.webshots.com/user/jakewc2 > <snip> > How old are the boys now? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > They were born June 2, 2006, so that makes them a little over 7 months > old. > I'm sorry to hear about the rats, them being 7 months, its around that time > when their hormones are kicking in. I've had it with a few of my rats. I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I havent had to get any of my males spayed, so far. The squabbles just > petered out after a while. I totally agree with what jakewc2 has written. Male rats can get tricky between the ages of 5 to 8 months. That's when the hormones start raging... it should soon settle down though. Another thing I wanted to add, cute little story: In April, I adopted two older male rats from a rescue. The two together seemed to be fighting a lot and lots of squeaking too. I was getting upset because I thought these two were just not getting a long. One night, the squeaking got so loud, I decided to pull the mean one out and give him a piece of my mind. Of course he looked at me all innocent like, blinking and staring... giving me these "I love you" looks...so I put him back in the cage and I hid behind the couch. Sure enough... the victim, runs up the ramp and jumps on the meanie, meanie flips the victim over and victim screams bloody murder. Then they stop, victim runs up the ramp and jumps down on the meanie...starting the whole thing over again. Sheesh... he's not screaming bloody murder, he's squealing in delight... boys! SignatureJoanne Owned by 23 rats. Webshots: http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 ------------------------------------------------------- ~Ignorance is not innocence but sin. *Robert Browning* >> I'm sorry to hear about the rats, them being 7 months, its around that >> time when their hormones are kicking in. I've had it with a few of my [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > whole thing over again. Sheesh... he's not screaming bloody murder, he's > squealing in delight... boys! Hehe, I forgot about the power grooming. Sometimes it does sound like they are killing each other but that's all it is. Dominance and playfighting. Signaturehttp://www.furrycritters.co.uk http://community.webshots.com/user/jakewc2 just wanted to update that the boys have stopped molesting hypatia and all three have actually gotten along pretty well. i think she has been a good influence on them as they also are not fighting nearly as bad as previous. sorry for the typing. having to use on screen keyboard because of no actual keyboard. thanks for all the reassurances! ~kellyn38 > just wanted to update that the boys have stopped molesting hypatia and > all three have actually gotten along pretty well. i think she has been [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > thanks for all the reassurances! > ~kellyn38 I'm so glad it's all worked out! Girls often do that... be a good influence. lol SignatureJoanne Owned by 23 rats. Webshots: http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 ------------------------------------------------------- ~Ignorance is not innocence but sin. *Robert Browning* |
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