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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rats / November 2007



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RIP Branden :(

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gazz@kampenwagen.co.uk - 24 Nov 2007 00:36 GMT
I never thought i'd be writing this for another 2 years at least,

But Branden went to sleep for the last time yesterday afternoon (23rd
of November)
checking sam's phone photo's of him, i realised we'd got him not on
the 31st of august as i said on my site, but on the....23rd of August,
we had the fellow exactly 3 months.

He was 4 months and 11 days old when he went.

we've put a tribute up for him on his web page.
http://www.kampenwagen.co.uk/Branden.htm
it's at the bottom of his origional page.

We've learnt the horrible way why not to get a rat from a pet shop,
especialy not one that sells reptiles too, Branden was such a lovely
rat, and it's just not fair he only got to live such a short life.

I guess he did get to see a bit of europe in his short time with us,
he was a great travel companion, hopefully nugget will be too, but he
hasnt taken to traveling quite as well as branden did.

Nugget is missing his mate of course, we got nugget about 3 weeks ago
as a cage mate for Branden, poor noogie went upto Brandens hammock
when we went out to burry branden, and he was sulking there when we
came back,
He's getting lots of attention right now, but i know we'll not replace
a cage mate, so we'll have to see about getting a cage mate for Noogie
this time.

Of course we're not going to go in a pet shop again except for food
and treats, but i don't want to leave noogie as an only rattie for too
long, we're in europe for another 3 or so weeks.

Right now we're in Frankfurt am Main, we'll be here a week i guess,
then we'll go towards Koln/bonn, then head accross Belgium to
Dunkerque, but we can easily go further north in germany, and head
westwards accross the Netherlands, (i would prefer that as the roads
are better that way :)

So if anyone knows of a rat breeder in those area's, who has an 8 week
old or thereabouts rattlett, please let us know.
We'd love to get a blue rat, but a healthy rat of any colour would be
fine, as it's their personality that's more  importiant, and of course
it has to be a he, as i don't think we could go into breeding
ourselves, as we get so attatched, we'd never be able to let any
ratletts go, it's their fault, they are just so cute and adorable :)

Gazz, Sam, Toffee <sniff> and Nugget
Marlo - 24 Nov 2007 00:40 GMT
Oh no, I'm so sorry.  It's very hard. My thoughts are with you and Nugget.
-Marlo

> I never thought i'd be writing this for another 2 years at least,
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Gazz, Sam, Toffee <sniff> and Nugget
O.R.R. - 24 Nov 2007 01:30 GMT
(((HUGS)))

Samantha in OK

> Oh no, I'm so sorry.  It's very hard. My thoughts are with you and Nugget.
> -Marlo
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>>
>> Gazz, Sam, Toffee <sniff> and Nugget

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Michael Rozdoba - 24 Nov 2007 05:59 GMT
> I never thought i'd be writing this for another 2 years at least,
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> http://www.kampenwagen.co.uk/Branden.htm
> it's at the bottom of his origional page.

I'm so sorry, that's very sad. We're both thinking of you. Your tribute
page is very moving. I'm certain he enjoyed his time with you all - you
only have to look at the pictures. The ones with him swimming outside
have always amazed me - he looked so comfortable in that environment.

You mention UK regs about not being able to have your pet's body back -
I've never heard of this. We don't get our guys back as, for me at
least, it doesn't seem important by then, however Cheryl's parents dog
was recently euthanased & he now rests in their back garden where he
spent many happy times.
Tracey - 24 Nov 2007 09:23 GMT
>I never thought i'd be writing this for another 2 years at least,
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Gazz, Sam, Toffee <sniff> and Nugget

My heart dropped when I saw the words RIP Branden - I have followed your
stories and know what a beautiful little guy Branden was and how very young.
I am so sorry, I can imagine how sad you all are (Nugget and Toffee
included).  I know it's hard but try and take comfort from the fact that
Branden lead an amazing life, full of adventures, and was given all the
care, attention and love any animal could wish for.  Your tribute page says
it all - so lovely.  Take care, hugs to you and Sam, and scritches and
snuggles to Toffee and Nugget.  Play hard at The Bridge sweet Branden.

Tracey
Tale - 24 Nov 2007 11:34 GMT
Oh no! I'm so sorry for your loss. :'(
Branden's life may have been way too short, but at least he's had a pleasant
life with you.

- Tale

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"Oh, Rats!"
http://www.taletn.com/rats/

Joanne - 24 Nov 2007 13:49 GMT
> I never thought i'd be writing this for another 2 years at least,
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Gazz, Sam, Toffee <sniff> and Nugget

I am so sorry. :(

Signature

Joanne
The Rat Shack
www.jorats.com

gazz@kampenwagen.co.uk - 24 Nov 2007 14:16 GMT
Thankyou all for your support in this horrible time for us.

It's poor nugget i'm worried about the most, he's so quiet at the
moment, to be expected i guess, he's also becoming very clingy towards
us, before he was content to do his own things, coming to us for a
cubble when he felt like it or we coaxed him over to us, he wouldent
respond to his name like Branden did or ask to come out to play.

Now he'll come running to us when we call him, and he'll sit on our
shoulders for ages, grooming the backs of our necks, sticking what
feels like his whole head in our ears,
last night i was laying on my belly on the bed, he pushed his way
under my neck, and brought his head upto my lips, i kissed him (who
can resist when a cute rattie asks for a kiss :) he ran to the other
side of my neck, turned around, and repeated the manouver from the
other side, after each kiss he reversed his position.

This went on for ages, something he's never done before, he's learnt a
few thngs from Branden too, when he wants the toilet, he does a little
circular dance, asking to go to his cage.
He's also learnt another phrase, if i put him in his cage and say 'go
toilet' he'll go and sit in his toilet box and it seems he makes some
noogie nuggets in there just to please me :)
ok, being a typical man he'll then grab some food out of his bowl and
procede to eat that whilst sat on the loo, maybe i need to get a
rattie sized newspaper for him to read instead :)

Right now he's wandering over my shoulders, down my belly and onto the
laptop, he really wants to see all me and sam are doing, totaly
different from before when he was happy to play with Branden all
night, and we were seen as food providers and occasional affection
givers.

I don't think i'm going to leave him in his cage today, even tho it's
cold out, i'm going to put loads of rattie sleeping bags in the rattie
carrier and take him with us when we go out to see Frankfurt city
centre (yes, it is gone 3pm, and we've just got up, our alarm clock
has gone now... branden running like mad along his run area at the top
of the van, plus we were a bit miserable after such a quiet night)

I'm getting obsessive with weighing Nugget now, he gets weighed 5
times a day or more i've found, i'm noticing 2 gram differances
between him eating and going toilet, finaly having accurate scales is
good, but i dont want to develop an obsessive compulsive disorder,
where i weigh every grain of food before he eats it, then weigh him,
then weigh his dookies then him again :)

We've been given a lead to the possibility of some Blue rattlets near
where we are staying, waiting for a return e-mail, but we may get
Nugget a mate sooner than we thought, i hope so, as he really seems to
miss rattie company, i do know of a pet shop not too far away with
blue rats in stock, but i'm not going near them no matter how cute
they looked.

anyway, thanks again for the support,

gary, Sam, Toffee and Nugget
Zoe - 24 Nov 2007 14:03 GMT
> Right now we're in Frankfurt am Main, we'll be here a week i guess,
> then we'll go towards Koln/bonn, then head accross Belgium to
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> ourselves, as we get so attatched, we'd never be able to let any
> ratletts go, it's their fault, they are just so cute and adorable :)

I'm sorry to hear about Branden :(

I've had a quick look around and found some breeders in Netherlands and
Germany - though being in Australia, I have no idea if they are any good :)

I guess the key here is to use your judgement if you decide to visit any
of these places.

ie: How well socialised are the rats? How clean do they keep their
cages? What sort of bedding do they use? etc etc.

Just because they are a breeder, doesn't always mean they have the best
interests of the rat at heart.

Here is an interesting link: http://www.ratster.com/flags.html

(Sidenote: There is/was a registered breeder up here in Brisbane who
was, hrmm lets just say 'not very good'. Unfortunately, people who
wanted to do the right thing and buy from a registered breeder, were
referred to her via the rat club.
One couple, bought a pair of rats from her. When they hit puberty, one
of them turned vicious and started to attack the other rat. So they got
him neutured, which didn't solve a thing.

So they contacted the breeder, who told them, 'I can take him back if
you want, but he'll  just be put down'. So they decided to keep him, and
kept him in a separate cage.

The problem there, as I see it, was this breeder was breeding for
colour/markings, and as such, the temperment suffered. The boy in
question was a blazed boy, and in Australia, when blazes first came
about, there was an issue with aggression. From what I am aware of, this
aggression issue has since been bred out of most lines through careful
breeding.
Unfortunately, there are still breeders out there who, lets just say,
aren't as careful :)

The another issue was this so called registered breeder was knowingly
selling pregnant mice.  Her attitude was 'oh when they have the babies -
just take them down to the petshop'.

Anyways..my point is that there are good ones out there, but there bad
ones as well :))

But saying that, just talking to them and looking at their breeding set
up and asking questions, will give you an indication as to if they are
any good :)
Trust your instinct :)

Some links, hope they are of use:

Netherlands:

http://home.casema.nl/samsamrats/
http://www.ratcity.nl/opvang/index.htm
http://www.ratjes.nl/rattenopvangparzival/
http://skip.to/kissimmee
http://www.geocities.com/rattery_les_anges/
http://www.rattery-raya.com/

Germany:

http://www.rattenparadies.com/
http://www.the-rats-of-indiansummer.de/

I'm not sure how well your german or dutch is :) but it might be worth
having a look around the site and emailing the breeders and see how it
goes.

I most of those sites off http://www.ratster.com/breederlinks.html , so
if you are going to go through another country, it could be worth while
checking out if there are any breeders.

Also - have you signed up to the ratlist? It is an email group with
quite a large membership of rat lovers from all over the world.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ratlist/

It might be worth asking on there for recommendations of breeders :)

I hope that helps somewhat :)

Zoe
Tale - 24 Nov 2007 16:56 GMT
> Netherlands:

That's my home country, so I will probably know the breeders/shelters. Let's
see...

> http://home.casema.nl/samsamrats/

Samsam used to be a breeder, but now is a shelter.

> http://www.ratcity.nl/opvang/index.htm

Ratcity is where all my rats are from. :-) Needless to say this is a very
good breeder IMHO. By the way, it's both a breeder and a shelter. The link
above is actually pointing to the shelter, you will find the (Dutch) breeder
info at:
http://www.ratcity.nl/rattery/

> http://www.ratjes.nl/rattenopvangparzival/

I don't know rat shelter Parzival personally, but I do know a couple of
people who sometimes help out, so I can say that this is a good shelter.

> http://skip.to/kissimmee

I have no personal experience with Kissimmee, but I do know people who have
rats from this breeder and as far as I know they are very happy (both rats
and people).

> http://www.geocities.com/rattery_les_anges/
> http://www.rattery-raya.com/

I don't know Les Anges nor Raya, but I've just read at the websites that
both have stopped breeding.

> I'm not sure how well your german or dutch is :) but it might be worth
> having a look around the site and emailing the breeders and see how it
> goes.

Frankly, I doubt if a Dutch breeder or shelter would let you have their
rats, because you are... well, traveling people. ;-) What I really mean is:
they would have to trust your word to take good care of the rats, but they
can't really check up on you. And Dutch breeders (and shelters) generally
will want to check up on you. Most breeders even make you sign a contract in
which you plegde to take good care of the rats, you won't breed with them,
and that you will return them if you ever decide to get rid of them.

But if you do find a willing Dutch breeder or shelter, feel free to contact
me about them. I will probably know them, and else I could ask around. Good
luck, and take care!

- Tale

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"Oh, Rats!"
http://www.taletn.com/rats/

Michael Rozdoba - 24 Nov 2007 19:14 GMT
> Frankly, I doubt if a Dutch breeder or shelter would let you have their
> rats, because you are... well, traveling people. ;-) What I really mean is:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> me about them. I will probably know them, and else I could ask around. Good
> luck, and take care!

I know people on this group can't know each other well in the way they
would if they met in the real world, but one can make some observations
over time. Would perhaps any of the breeders you know be willing to
accept a character reference from you on behalf of Gary & Sam? At the
very least maybe they could be asked to at least consider the matter &
take a look at Gary's website & posts to this group? I understand their
reticence, but it would be great if Nugget could find a new rattie
friend soon.
gazz@kampenwagen.co.uk - 24 Nov 2007 20:06 GMT
I did wonder if we'd have problems because we travel about so much,

we're not full time travellers, we have a home base at our parents in
England, where we spend the winter... well the coldest parts anyway,
just each year we've come out to europe for longer and longer, 6 years
ago it was a quick 1 weeks rush around where ever i could get to in
time, next year it was 2 weeks, then 2 months, 4 months, and this
latest trip we've been out for just over 6 months, and are going back
home in 3 weeks time,

We'd have no problems with updates to keep the breeder informed of the
ratties progress, i'm actually looking forwards to that bit, we kept
the dogs home we got Toffee from updated on her progress from a
boisterous, lead pulling mad thing that people kept on returning
because she liked to jump up on them!, to a laid back almost docile
lap dog, who can still tear around and go mad, but only when we tell
her to, that dogs home is in Wales, and we live in the east midlands,
they were fine doing the home check on our motorhome.

like Nugget Toffee goes to the toilet on command too, this amazes most
people who see it and the dogs home staff were totaly amazed we'd
taught her anything at all, she was marked down as potentialy
untrainable, i had to choose another toilet word for Nugget, as asking
him to go for a pee or a crap made toffee obidiently come out from her
den under the bed and wait by the door to go out and 'perform'
Nugget's word is 'go toilets' which luckily Toffee dosent respond to,
Branden took no notice of this, but he did the little dance to tell me
he wanted to go when he was out, which noogie has picked up.

Not sure how breeders check up on people who live in a bricks and
mortar home all the time tho, do they canvass the neigbours to see if
you've ever trodden on a snail, or used a water pistol to keep the
neigbourhood cats from leaving 'presents' in your flower beds :)

I'd have no problems signing any contract that says we'd keep good
care of their ratties, we don't want to breed from them, not that i
know how to with 2 boys :) and they'd never make use of the bit that
says we'd return the rattie to them if we don't want it anymore, as
that'll never happen, any pet is for life, no matter what happens in
ours, the pets will always have a home with us, they come first, i
firmly believe animals deserve our care and attention the most, humans
can look after them selves, animals rely on us to help them out when
they are pets for us, not that we have any pets anyway, we have family
members who just happen to be hairier, smaller, and walk differently
than other peoples :)

We've seen a lovely rattie we'd like on a german ratterie site, they
are located not too far from where we are now, he's 2 days older than
Nugget, he's not a blue, but he sounds like he's got a great
character, and he's cute in his own way, but we mainly want him as a
friend for Nugget, hence my preferances for colour don't come into it
that much.
Lynn "kitty" - 24 Nov 2007 20:04 GMT
We send you all our love and hugs.

Lynn "kitty" and her lot
Mandie @k@ Zepherous - 25 Nov 2007 03:58 GMT
>I never thought i'd be writing this for another 2 years at least,
>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> Gazz, Sam, Toffee <sniff> and Nugget

OMG, I am so sorry to hear about Branden, he seen more in his short lifetime
that most rats and some people see in theirs.
Dewi - 27 Nov 2007 02:12 GMT
On Nov 24, 10:36 am, g...@kampenwagen.co.uk wrote:
> I never thought i'd be writing this for another 2 years at least,
>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
>
> Gazz, Sam, Toffee <sniff> and Nugget

Oh how sad! Poor little Branden. Hugs being sent to you, Sam, Toffee &
Nugget.

Dewi
 
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