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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rats / December 2007Another rat, another illness... Tonka
Hi. So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge (their normal mucous color) coming from his nose _ but a lot of it _ , losing weight, being lethargic, and those familiar tired eyes. I just put Chewie to sleep two weeks ago! Well, Tonka is now in a separate cage, we just started antibiotics and we're keeping a close eye on him. He does still have an appetite, he was really into the scrambled eggs I gave him tonight. Ahhhh! I can't stand this! I really hope Tonk can recover from this. At least he really likes the antibiotics (doxycycline and baytril flavored like marshmallow, yummy) so I don't have to force that down him. He was cute, grabbing for the syringe when it ran out. My husband is very concerned about the toll antibiotics take on their little systems... organ damage and such. I'll go for a week and see if he's doing better. It seems like with these little rats, it takes more than just a week on antibiotics to kick their illness, if it actually works. So if you have any advice or ideas, that would be greatly appreciated. My vet is really not a rat expert at all. Cheers, Marlo Yes, I always wonder about the side effects of medications on their tiny systems. I know with humans, they recommend probiotics or natural bacteria from yogurt to replenish what is lost with antibiotic or medication use. Replenishes the good bacteria in the intestines. I have some eggs I am going to boil for mine. You should have seen them the first time they tasted a bit of pasta! Like candy in front of a baby lol. I do pray Tonka gets better. ((((HUGS)))) Samantha C. in OK, SAM is fine too. :) > Hi. > So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge (their [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Cheers, > Marlo  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Thank you for the nice thoughts. Well, Tonka can be fooled once with medication, but not twice. He didn't take it from a syringe the second time. So he took some from a piece of bread. But not after that. Then he took it on a donut. But not after that. Tonight, I had to force it into his mouth, and I know we didn't get the full amount down him. And I worry about the stress that puts on him, all that fighting and stuff. He is not drinking water. He is kind of eating. He's had half a piece of pineapple tonight, about a half teaspoon of yogurt with echinacea mixed in and a few bites of egg. He has gained 20 grams in the last three days so that's encouraging, but he is a lot more lethargic today. Last night, he really grabbed and chowed down on a small piece of a cob of corn and he had a piece of honeydew. He is not interested in his regular rat pellets at all. His eyes look even more tired tonight. I took him out earlier and he just laid still in my arms. Not something he would normally do. > Yes, I always wonder about the side effects of medications on their tiny > systems. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >> Cheers, >> Marlo Not many vets will let you do it, but I had a vet once who let me have the medication, syringes and needles so I could inject the antibiotics, after she'd shown me how to do it. This particular rat was very weak and lethargic, wouldn't eat, especially not something with medications in it, and only experienced a spurt of energy when I was trying to syringe some medication into her mouth. It caused her a great deal of distress, whereas when I started injecting the drugs she didn't struggle at all, let alone squeak. If Tonka gets so ill he won't eat or drink, and syringe-feeding him the drugs is very stressful for him and he struggles so he doesn't get the right dose, it might be worth finding out if your vet will teach you how to do injections. Rosemary > I had a vet once who let me have the > medication, syringes and needles so I could inject the antibiotics, > after > she'd shown me how to do it. My Vets always let me have injectable medication since they taught me how to do proper injections. I started on a piece of cloth and an empty syringe so the vet could see my technique then moved on to saline into one of my lads. I don't see as it will be a problem because most Vets will happily prescribe injectable medication to people with diabetic animals once the owner has been trained. One thing I have learned is not to inject rats in the scruff, inject in the flanks instead and alternate side to side. Firstly is the scruff skin is a bit thinner and can get damaged but the flanks are a bit thicker and there is a larger area of skin to inject in to. Secondly the flanks are a lot cleaner. When a rat grooms they actually groom clean their flanks but the scruff just gets a wipe over with a paw. HTH Scritches to Tonka. SignatureRatty Kisses Jackie Ably Hindered by The Buck House Crew "Behavioral psychology is the science of pulling habits out of rats." Dr. Douglas Busch I know stage 1 squash baby food is high in water content if you haven't tried it. My rats love it. Worth a try :) Keep us updated. Samantha C. in OK > Thank you for the nice thoughts. > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >>> Cheers, >>> Marlo SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Thank you for your suggestions and scritches. I'm going to try the baby food. I'll be consulting with the long distance vet tomorrow (he's the rat guy) and then taking Tonka to our vet which is 50 miles away. Here's the letter I'm faxing to the long distance vet: To: Dr. Duke From: Marlo Miller RE: Tonka the rat Hi Dr. Duke. We have another sick rat. Tonka, age about 2 years and a few months. Late last week he started getting excess red discharge from his nose, so much that the insides of his front arms were red from cleaning his face. He lost weight and was lethargic. We moved him into his own, smaller cage on Friday. He is not drinking water. He is still sort of eating but not like he should. A little bit of yogurt, a piece of melon, a small piece of corn cob, etc. Weight when healthy last time we weighed was 650g on 8/15. On 11/27 he was 625, on 11/29 609, on 11/30 600 but on 12/3 he was back up to 623. I've been trying to give him enrofloxacin .5 ml 2X a day. Concentration is 5mg/mL. But he can't be fooled twice so this has been more than difficult. 1.What medicine should I be giving him? 2.What is a more concentrated solution of any of the medicines so I don't have to get so much down him? I'd like to be able to get in a few drops and have that be his dose. 3.Could I have my vet inject medicine? 4.Since I live 50 miles away from my vet, could I have the vet teach me how to inject medicine? 5.Should I have my vet inject fluids? 6.What do you think this is? 7.What else can we be doing? Tonka has been very healthy his whole life, other than a bout with mites. He was in the same room with Chewie, who had the same red discharge and lethargy before we put her to sleep, but not in the same cage. Other rats appear healthy. Thank you very much and I really appreciate your willingness to give us advice long-distance. > I know stage 1 squash baby food is high in water content if you haven't > tried it. [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] >>>> Cheers, >>>> Marlo Hi all. Tonka had a large mass in his abdomen, on the right side. Likely had invaded other organs. They couldn't know if it was operable until they got in there, and with the shape he was in, surviving surgery was not very good odds either. So I chose to put Tonka to sleep before he wasted away even more and his organs began shutting down. I'm so very sad tonight. I loved that little guy so much. I'm going to miss him terribly. There will never be another rat like him. What do you guys know about cancer-causing agents for rats? I just want to make extra sure there's nothing in our home or food that would have precipitated this. I know, cancer sometimes just happens. But just in case.... We use aspen bedding on the floor of the cage, pieces of new carpet on the shelves of the cage, clean the cages with mild solution of vinegar and water, give them bottled water to drink, lab pellets for food, fruits, veggies, bread, crackers and occassionally meat, eggs and sweet stuff for treats. (No more sweet stuff at all.) This has been a rough few weeks for me. Chewie then Tonka. I can't take this! We have 4 more rats. Three of them or about 2 and a few months, one is 1 and a few months. I feel so frustrated it just feels like one of my rat gets sick, and I try to help, but it dies anyway. I go into crazy panic mode now when I suspect anything. My step-son is even freaking out and weighed our other boy (I guess he's our last boy) Buster, and thought he had lost weight, but then realized he just read the display wrong. So where did the term "Rainbow Bridge" come from? As I was holding Tonka, waiting for the anesthetic to take effect,which took a long time, I was telling him that in rat heaven, the hammocks are perfect. Tonka was the official hammock inspector and if the hammock, made from a jean leg, was not perfect, he'd get depressed. Well, anyway, I'm gonna play with the girls now and very paranoidedly (is that a word?) watch them, and watch for symptoms. Thanks, Marlo > Thank you for your suggestions and scritches. I'm going to try the baby > food. I'll be consulting with the long distance vet tomorrow (he's the [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> Marlo > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > tonight. I loved that little guy so much. I'm going to miss him > terribly. There will never be another rat like him. Aw, I'm very sorry to read this. It's bad enough losing one... :( > What do you guys know about cancer-causing agents for rats? I just want > to make extra sure there's nothing in our home or food that would have > precipitated this. I know, cancer sometimes just happens. But just in > case.... We use /snip You don't mention anything that I know can be harmful & as someone else has recently said, the Aspen should be safe, though we've never used wood based bedding. I think you're doing everything correctly. Maybe someone else can advise, but it could just be bad luck. It seems common for a lot of ratties :/ All the best. SignatureMichael Marlo, I am so sorry to here of your loss. Sometimes it does seem fruitless when you do the right thing,take them to the vet to get treated, and they die no matter how hard you try. He is happier I am sure and just waiting to see you again one day. I like to think that God lets our passed loved ones take a peek on our lives just so they can see how we are doing. If only we could do the same for them....I wonder about "higher" happiness.... Did you get a chance to try the stage 1 squash? Either way, It's a healthy treat for any rattie.. As far as cancer causing or carcinogenic chemicals/ingredients, I will post some links here in a few as my browser is acting up and I need to reboot. (((HUGS)))) Samantha C. in OK > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 151 lines] >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Marlo SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com I'm so sorry for your loss. {{{{{Hugs}}}}} SignatureRatty Kisses Jackie Ably Hindered by The Buck House Crew "Behavioral psychology is the science of pulling habits out of rats." Dr. Douglas Busch I'm so sorry about Tonka. I really think that when it comes to cancer and rats, it's ultimately due to genetics, their short lifespan and their fast metabolism. It's sad and awful I know! It sounds like Tonka had something similar to what my beautiful rat Crackers had. ((((Marlo)))) Dewi > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Thanks, > Marlo Marlo, I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. Not so long ago Art had a large tumour that impinged on internal organs, it started to affect his breathing so sadly I had to have him PTS, now his brother Tar has a pretty big tumour under his front leg and I can feel another starting to grow. Tar is 2 and a half and has hind leg paralysis, I feel he is not fit enough to cope with surgery. I don't think what is in their cage makes a huge difference where tumours are concerned, you obviously care a great deal for your rats , sometimes no matter how much love and care you give them they still get tumours. I've kept rats for may years and have lost the majority of them due to tumours or tumour related conditions. I don't use wood based bedding at all now , all though I have seen a reduction in reparatory related illness in them I see no reduction in tumours. Good luck and health to you and your girls. > Hi all. > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > Thanks, > Marlo I'm so sorry to hear about Tonka, I know how hard it is. Take care. Tracey > Hi. > So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Cheers, > Marlo Just to put your mind to rest, I've had a few rats on Baytril and zithromax for long periods of time and post mortems revealed absolutely no organ damage. If it helps them maintain and recover, I'd have them on meds. In fact, I've nebulized my rats with Baytril since they are babies, doing this every 2 months for two weeks and again no effects except for no more pulmonary abscesses. Also, consider this, when taking a rat out of his "colony" cage, this can bring on more stress for the fellow and impede his recovery. I'd recommend putting him back with his buddies. SignatureJoanne The Rat Shack www.jorats.com Joanne, Marlo posted on the 5th, above your post, that she had Tonka put to sleep. Samantha C. in OK >> Hi. >> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > bring on more stress for the fellow and impede his recovery. I'd recommend > putting him back with his buddies. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com Thanks for the good info that I will apply to my other rats. My dilemma about whether to separate or not to separate is this... does the sick rat have something contagious? Does being with the others make it harder for him to get plenty of food? I guess the thing is to get them to the vet right away, so you know what you're dealing with. It's good to know your rats have not had organ damage from extended periods of antibiotics. What is the combination of doses and stuff you nebulize with? I nebulized Chewie once and it seemed to help her, but the vet only gave me enough saline and gentocin for one time. I still have lot of albuterol. It always takes a few days for me to get antibiotics. The ones I have on hand are outdated now, from October. I wonder about ordering new stuff just to have it, because you have to jump on each new illness right away. Or does it actually still work after it's outdated. I sure do miss my Tonka. He was so squishy and for whatever reason, he was always so happy to see me. He was perfectly content to sit on my shoulder. Thank you everyone for your good wishes and advice. I really appreciate it so much. Other than my family, nobody in my real life gets it, they think it's just a rat. -Marlo >> Hi. >> So this week my sweet buy Tonka started getting sick. Red discharge [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > can bring on more stress for the fellow and impede his recovery. I'd > recommend putting him back with his buddies. > Thanks for the good info that I will apply to my other rats. My dilemma > about whether to separate or not to separate is this... does the sick [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > think it's just a rat. > -Marlo I'm so sorry for your loss. My nebulizing was with injectable Baytril and saline. I don't recommend it as a treatment option as I find that oral Baytril is much more effective. SignatureJoanne The Rat Shack www.jorats.com |
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