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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rats / December 2003



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Hoarding of Food???

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Mark Mestman - 16 Dec 2003 05:49 GMT
Hi, all.....

We just started feeding our ratty girls lab blocks yesterday, instead
of the seed mixes they obviously love. Rather than leaving the uneaten
pieces in the feeder, they are stashing them downstairs in thier
bedding in one corner of the cage.

Are my ratties shunning the new food, or hoarding it??  Why do they do
this??

Any and all answers are appreciated, all!!

Happy holidays to everyone here, by the way....

Sincerely,

Mark
paghat - 16 Dec 2003 08:25 GMT
> Hi, all.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Mark

They are hording. Any sudden change toward increased hording behavior is
evidence they're upset. They probably loved the seed mix but can barely
tolerate the blocks, so are very worried that hard times are upon them. In
experimental conditions it takes only one worrisome event regarding a
rat's food to induce extreme hording behavior which generally lasts for
one week IF the problem they experienced is not repeated. If the event
that they perceive as food-related problems happen repeatedly, then
neurotic hording may become permanent. A typical horde-inducing event
would be for one rat to get the only rice cracker one day, & the other to
have only rat-blocks. Or if you give rarely-received banana treats to all
the rats but one, the one left out will feel the sting of being left out
very deeply, & take to hording, because these are the things of rat
nightmares. Rats that have never felt the "best stuff" is being missed
only rarely horde food; with so much individuality among them this can't
be given as an absolute for all, but as a generality, worries about food
induce hording, or sometimes even vicious fighting over favorite food
items that are too few to go around.

-paghat the ratgirl

Signature

"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
  -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Tracey - 16 Dec 2003 11:01 GMT
> They are hording. Any sudden change toward increased hording behavior is
> evidence they're upset. They probably loved the seed mix but can barely
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>    -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
> See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

That's interesting - I just thought they stashed their favourite bits for
later hoping the other ratties wouldn't find their hoard, in the same greedy
way I hide the marzipan chocs (our favourite) from my boyfriend!

Tracey
J&S Bouchard - 16 Dec 2003 12:22 GMT
> Hi, all.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Mark

I've noticed that my rats will stash food when they are not getting their
favorite food. You could always add to the lab blocks like puffed wheat,
puffed rice, Nutro Lite dog food, raw all vegetable pasta etc... But
certainly don't give that terrible seed mix again...
If you want to just stick with the lab blocks, eventually your ratties will
accept the change.
Signature

Joanne
Mom to 14 rats
http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70
j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca
remove "no spam"

Mark Mestman - 17 Dec 2003 06:05 GMT
Thanks, everyone, for your replies!!

As usual, I am learning alot here about my rattie girls.

Thanks again!

Sincerely,

Mark
Klary - 16 Dec 2003 21:00 GMT
I give my rats a bowl of ready-made rat food every day as well as my
own mixture of oats, raw rice and raw pasta. And then they get some
fresh fruits and vegetables every day as well as a couple of treats
(cheese, yoghurtdrops, tiny bits of meat or fish, some yoghurt,
whatever's available.) So this is pretty much the same every day.
Still, the only thing they stash is the raw pasta! As soon as it is in
their bowl they take it out and carry it to different corners of the
cage. Then they eat it during the day (or night, when their chewing
wakes me up..)

Klary

> Hi, all.....
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Mark
Tracey - 17 Dec 2003 11:58 GMT
> I give my rats a bowl of ready-made rat food every day as well as my
> own mixture of oats, raw rice and raw pasta. And then they get some
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Klary

That's funny, cos my boys turn their noses up at dried pasta and will only
eat it when it's cooked!  The other day they had dropped all their bits of
dried pasta in their litter tray - are they trying to tell me something?!

I wasn't sure whether it was ok to feed uncooked rice - I know rice is one
of those dodgy foods that can cause bad food poisoning, but maybe that's
just when it's been cooked and then re-heated.  (If you intend on re-heating
cooked rice you are supposed to cool it down as quickly as possible and put
in the fridge.)

Tracey
tadpole - 19 Dec 2003 06:51 GMT
> I wasn't sure whether it was ok to feed uncooked rice - I know rice is
> one of those dodgy foods that can cause bad food poisoning, but maybe
> that's just when it's been cooked and then re-heated.  (If you intend
> on re-heating cooked rice you are supposed to cool it down as quickly
> as possible and put in the fridge.)

I'm not sure if this has been replied to yet - my news server is dodgy :)

Anyways..I believe uncooked rice is a no no (well I don't add it to my mix
:)). I think the problem is that it can expand in the rats gut after
ingestion, causing all sorts of problems.

Uncooked rice isn't dodgy food poisoning wise - however cooked rice can be,
especially if it isn't handled properly (which happens in  about 90% + of
restaurants). Often, restaurants  cook a large pot of rice in the morning,
and don't cool it down quick enough to prevent bacterial growth. Then they
recook it.. but often not long enough to kill any bacteria that may be
present.
It was one of the scenarios we looked at when I studied food microbiology
(a VERY scary subject).

Anyways..I'll go back lurking now :)

Zoe :D
paghat - 19 Dec 2003 08:11 GMT
This Urban Legend is occasionally repeated:

>I believe uncooked rice is a no no (well I don't add it to my mix
> :)). I think the problem is that it can expand in the rats gut after
> ingestion, causing all sorts of problems.

What's the origin of this myth, which anyone on second thought should
realize is ridiculous since raw grains are the most natural of all rodent
foods.  

There is a much more widespread widespread urban legend that birds that
eat uncooked rice tossed at wedding parties die because the rice swells up
in their craw or stomach & their insides burst. This is so thorougly
believed by superstitious rubes that rice-throwing is banned by some
churches which conduct weddings, with the safety of birds in mind. But it
is entirely a myth. Rice in the wild is a favorite wild bird food -- game
birds especially prefer it -- & rice grown as crops has to be protected
from birds which seek out such easy pickings, without injury. It harms
none of them, ever. It is a grass seed such as many rodents harvest as a
matter of course; there is nothing unique or horrible about rice compared
to other grasses or grains; it is natural for birds -- & rodents -- to eat
such grains raw.

It seems the urban myth of exploding birds & raw rice causing has gotten
transferred to superstitions about pets -- so that now some people think
if a dog eats raw rice its stomach will swell up or explode, or if a pet
rat or gerbil eats raw rice it will be injured. Such nonsense doesn't seem
to be nearly as terribly widspread for rodents & dogs as it is for birds,
but here & there I've seen clueless but well meaning know-nothings put
"instructions" at their pet rat websites baldly stating with sweeping
disinterest in reality, "Never feed rats uncooked rice, it will swell up
in their stomach and hurt them."  And then some young rat owner sees this
on the web & fails to question the logic of such baseless statements.

In reality there is nothing wrong with raw grains for rodents. Raw grains
are in fact the most  natural of their food choices, the primary source of
the carbohydrates that are the major requirement for a rat's diet. Too
many fatty seeds & nuts can harm them by inducing overweight & secondarily
heart disease. Meat or meat byproducts can harm them because they have
very low protein requirements & excesses of protein cause skin disease in
rats often resulting in severe scratching, scabbing or infection, &
increasing ill health. Sugared foods can harm them by lowering the
percentage of their caloric intake that is the absolutely required
carbohydrate portion. But carbohydrate-rich raw grains including rice are
perfect for their all round good health.

Wild rats throughout Asia are the #1 cause of rice crop damage & thus of
hunger. Rice farmers in Southeast Asia take for granted that on a lucky
year, the rats will take only 15% of the crops -- that's at a minimum --
but in some places where snakes have been hunted to near extinction. Snake
blood is used medicinally as a superstitioius cure for AIDS and venereal
disease in Thailand, plus many people eat snakes, so the population has
dropped to near zero in some places, & in those places the increased rat
population can take as much as 70% of a rice crop -- to their further
increased health & happiness & injury to the human economy.

There is nothing magically ultra-expanding about rice. If this silly myth
that it swells up in the bellies of rats & birds & dogs & can even kill
them had a lick of truth to it, it'd be true also of raw pasta, & of other
grains that expand when cooked (which is all grains). In reality these are
among the best foods they could possibly eat. Hard, raw grains of all
sorts are healthy for their teeth in the way cooked grains & other soft
foods are not; & no nutrient has been cooked out of raw grains.

-paghat the ratgirl

Signature

"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
  -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Mark Thompson - 19 Dec 2003 13:32 GMT
<snippity snip snip sniple>

Blimey Paghat, you sure do go in for long posts!
J&S Bouchard - 19 Dec 2003 13:38 GMT
> > I wasn't sure whether it was ok to feed uncooked rice - I know rice is
> > one of those dodgy foods that can cause bad food poisoning, but maybe
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Zoe :D

Hi Zoe... the cooked rice and cooled down bit, does that include instant
rice? I never knew there was extra care to cooking rice, but I only use the
instant stuff...
Signature

Joanne
Mom to 14 rats
http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70
j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca
remove "no spam"

Tracey - 20 Dec 2003 11:25 GMT
> Hi Zoe... the cooked rice and cooled down bit, does that include instant
> rice? I never knew there was extra care to cooking rice, but I only use the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca
> remove "no spam"

Joanne, when you say instant rice do you mean the type that comes in little
packets with flavours and bits of dried veg etc added, that you add to a pan
with water and boil for about 20 mins?  If so you would still need to cool
any rice you planned on re-heating as quickly as possible.  But remember,
you are only at risk of food poisoning when re-heating already cooked rice,
so these instant packet rices containing uncooked rice are safer than buying
the pre-cooked frozen or chilled ones.  Since my dad had a nasty food
poisoning from pre-cooked supermarket rice I only ever buy it uncooked now
from the shops and boil it myself and if planning on re-heating any of it,
cool it as quickly as possible by placing it in a container, standing in a
bowl of iced water and putting in the fridge as soon as it is cool.  I do
still take risks though - like everytime we order an Indian or Chinese
take-away or eat out I hope they have followed all the rules properly with
cooling their rice.  Touch wood, ok so far!

Tracey
J&S Bouchard - 20 Dec 2003 22:16 GMT
> Joanne, when you say instant rice do you mean the type that comes in little
> packets with flavours and bits of dried veg etc added, that you add to a pan
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Tracey

So like Minute Rice and Uncle Ben's rice too?
Signature

Joanne
Mom to 14 rats
http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70
j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca
remove "no spam"

Tracey - 20 Dec 2003 10:25 GMT
> > I wasn't sure whether it was ok to feed uncooked rice - I know rice is
> > one of those dodgy foods that can cause bad food poisoning, but maybe
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Zoe :D

Thanks for de-lurking Zoe!  I wondered, also, whether there would be any
chance of uncooked rice expanding in the ratties systems, that's another
reason I've never fed it.  I know about cooked rice and cooling down quickly
if you are planning on re-heating - I always put any of my left-over rice in
a container and stand it in a bowl of iced water to cool it down as quickly
as possible.  My dad and step-mum recently had a very bad bout of food
poisoning from re-heated rice that they bought as part of a Chineses
ready-meal from the local supermarket - the local environmental health
officer told them that rice is one of the worst foods for causing poisoning.
And us vegetarians think we are quite safe not eating meat!

Tracey
 
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