Hoarding of Food???
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Mark Mestman - 16 Dec 2003 05:49 GMT Hi, all.....
We just started feeding our ratty girls lab blocks yesterday, instead of the seed mixes they obviously love. Rather than leaving the uneaten pieces in the feeder, they are stashing them downstairs in thier bedding in one corner of the cage.
Are my ratties shunning the new food, or hoarding it?? Why do they do this??
Any and all answers are appreciated, all!!
Happy holidays to everyone here, by the way....
Sincerely,
Mark
paghat - 16 Dec 2003 08:25 GMT > Hi, all..... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Mark They are hording. Any sudden change toward increased hording behavior is evidence they're upset. They probably loved the seed mix but can barely tolerate the blocks, so are very worried that hard times are upon them. In experimental conditions it takes only one worrisome event regarding a rat's food to induce extreme hording behavior which generally lasts for one week IF the problem they experienced is not repeated. If the event that they perceive as food-related problems happen repeatedly, then neurotic hording may become permanent. A typical horde-inducing event would be for one rat to get the only rice cracker one day, & the other to have only rat-blocks. Or if you give rarely-received banana treats to all the rats but one, the one left out will feel the sting of being left out very deeply, & take to hording, because these are the things of rat nightmares. Rats that have never felt the "best stuff" is being missed only rarely horde food; with so much individuality among them this can't be given as an absolute for all, but as a generality, worries about food induce hording, or sometimes even vicious fighting over favorite food items that are too few to go around.
-paghat the ratgirl
 Signature "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/
Tracey - 16 Dec 2003 11:01 GMT > They are hording. Any sudden change toward increased hording behavior is > evidence they're upset. They probably loved the seed mix but can barely [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" > See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ That's interesting - I just thought they stashed their favourite bits for later hoping the other ratties wouldn't find their hoard, in the same greedy way I hide the marzipan chocs (our favourite) from my boyfriend!
Tracey
J&S Bouchard - 16 Dec 2003 12:22 GMT > Hi, all..... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Mark I've noticed that my rats will stash food when they are not getting their favorite food. You could always add to the lab blocks like puffed wheat, puffed rice, Nutro Lite dog food, raw all vegetable pasta etc... But certainly don't give that terrible seed mix again... If you want to just stick with the lab blocks, eventually your ratties will accept the change.
 Signature Joanne Mom to 14 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam"
Mark Mestman - 17 Dec 2003 06:05 GMT Thanks, everyone, for your replies!!
As usual, I am learning alot here about my rattie girls.
Thanks again!
Sincerely,
Mark
Klary - 16 Dec 2003 21:00 GMT I give my rats a bowl of ready-made rat food every day as well as my own mixture of oats, raw rice and raw pasta. And then they get some fresh fruits and vegetables every day as well as a couple of treats (cheese, yoghurtdrops, tiny bits of meat or fish, some yoghurt, whatever's available.) So this is pretty much the same every day. Still, the only thing they stash is the raw pasta! As soon as it is in their bowl they take it out and carry it to different corners of the cage. Then they eat it during the day (or night, when their chewing wakes me up..)
Klary
> Hi, all..... > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Mark Tracey - 17 Dec 2003 11:58 GMT > I give my rats a bowl of ready-made rat food every day as well as my > own mixture of oats, raw rice and raw pasta. And then they get some [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Klary That's funny, cos my boys turn their noses up at dried pasta and will only eat it when it's cooked! The other day they had dropped all their bits of dried pasta in their litter tray - are they trying to tell me something?!
I wasn't sure whether it was ok to feed uncooked rice - I know rice is one of those dodgy foods that can cause bad food poisoning, but maybe that's just when it's been cooked and then re-heated. (If you intend on re-heating cooked rice you are supposed to cool it down as quickly as possible and put in the fridge.)
Tracey
tadpole - 19 Dec 2003 06:51 GMT > I wasn't sure whether it was ok to feed uncooked rice - I know rice is > one of those dodgy foods that can cause bad food poisoning, but maybe > that's just when it's been cooked and then re-heated. (If you intend > on re-heating cooked rice you are supposed to cool it down as quickly > as possible and put in the fridge.) I'm not sure if this has been replied to yet - my news server is dodgy :)
Anyways..I believe uncooked rice is a no no (well I don't add it to my mix
:)). I think the problem is that it can expand in the rats gut after ingestion, causing all sorts of problems.
Uncooked rice isn't dodgy food poisoning wise - however cooked rice can be, especially if it isn't handled properly (which happens in about 90% + of restaurants). Often, restaurants cook a large pot of rice in the morning, and don't cool it down quick enough to prevent bacterial growth. Then they recook it.. but often not long enough to kill any bacteria that may be present. It was one of the scenarios we looked at when I studied food microbiology (a VERY scary subject).
Anyways..I'll go back lurking now :)
Zoe :D
paghat - 19 Dec 2003 08:11 GMT This Urban Legend is occasionally repeated:
>I believe uncooked rice is a no no (well I don't add it to my mix > :)). I think the problem is that it can expand in the rats gut after > ingestion, causing all sorts of problems. What's the origin of this myth, which anyone on second thought should realize is ridiculous since raw grains are the most natural of all rodent foods.
There is a much more widespread widespread urban legend that birds that eat uncooked rice tossed at wedding parties die because the rice swells up in their craw or stomach & their insides burst. This is so thorougly believed by superstitious rubes that rice-throwing is banned by some churches which conduct weddings, with the safety of birds in mind. But it is entirely a myth. Rice in the wild is a favorite wild bird food -- game birds especially prefer it -- & rice grown as crops has to be protected from birds which seek out such easy pickings, without injury. It harms none of them, ever. It is a grass seed such as many rodents harvest as a matter of course; there is nothing unique or horrible about rice compared to other grasses or grains; it is natural for birds -- & rodents -- to eat such grains raw.
It seems the urban myth of exploding birds & raw rice causing has gotten transferred to superstitions about pets -- so that now some people think if a dog eats raw rice its stomach will swell up or explode, or if a pet rat or gerbil eats raw rice it will be injured. Such nonsense doesn't seem to be nearly as terribly widspread for rodents & dogs as it is for birds, but here & there I've seen clueless but well meaning know-nothings put "instructions" at their pet rat websites baldly stating with sweeping disinterest in reality, "Never feed rats uncooked rice, it will swell up in their stomach and hurt them." And then some young rat owner sees this on the web & fails to question the logic of such baseless statements.
In reality there is nothing wrong with raw grains for rodents. Raw grains are in fact the most natural of their food choices, the primary source of the carbohydrates that are the major requirement for a rat's diet. Too many fatty seeds & nuts can harm them by inducing overweight & secondarily heart disease. Meat or meat byproducts can harm them because they have very low protein requirements & excesses of protein cause skin disease in rats often resulting in severe scratching, scabbing or infection, & increasing ill health. Sugared foods can harm them by lowering the percentage of their caloric intake that is the absolutely required carbohydrate portion. But carbohydrate-rich raw grains including rice are perfect for their all round good health.
Wild rats throughout Asia are the #1 cause of rice crop damage & thus of hunger. Rice farmers in Southeast Asia take for granted that on a lucky year, the rats will take only 15% of the crops -- that's at a minimum -- but in some places where snakes have been hunted to near extinction. Snake blood is used medicinally as a superstitioius cure for AIDS and venereal disease in Thailand, plus many people eat snakes, so the population has dropped to near zero in some places, & in those places the increased rat population can take as much as 70% of a rice crop -- to their further increased health & happiness & injury to the human economy.
There is nothing magically ultra-expanding about rice. If this silly myth that it swells up in the bellies of rats & birds & dogs & can even kill them had a lick of truth to it, it'd be true also of raw pasta, & of other grains that expand when cooked (which is all grains). In reality these are among the best foods they could possibly eat. Hard, raw grains of all sorts are healthy for their teeth in the way cooked grains & other soft foods are not; & no nutrient has been cooked out of raw grains.
-paghat the ratgirl
 Signature "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/
Mark Thompson - 19 Dec 2003 13:32 GMT <snippity snip snip sniple>
Blimey Paghat, you sure do go in for long posts!
J&S Bouchard - 19 Dec 2003 13:38 GMT > > I wasn't sure whether it was ok to feed uncooked rice - I know rice is > > one of those dodgy foods that can cause bad food poisoning, but maybe [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Zoe :D Hi Zoe... the cooked rice and cooled down bit, does that include instant rice? I never knew there was extra care to cooking rice, but I only use the instant stuff...
 Signature Joanne Mom to 14 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam"
Tracey - 20 Dec 2003 11:25 GMT > Hi Zoe... the cooked rice and cooled down bit, does that include instant > rice? I never knew there was extra care to cooking rice, but I only use the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca > remove "no spam" Joanne, when you say instant rice do you mean the type that comes in little packets with flavours and bits of dried veg etc added, that you add to a pan with water and boil for about 20 mins? If so you would still need to cool any rice you planned on re-heating as quickly as possible. But remember, you are only at risk of food poisoning when re-heating already cooked rice, so these instant packet rices containing uncooked rice are safer than buying the pre-cooked frozen or chilled ones. Since my dad had a nasty food poisoning from pre-cooked supermarket rice I only ever buy it uncooked now from the shops and boil it myself and if planning on re-heating any of it, cool it as quickly as possible by placing it in a container, standing in a bowl of iced water and putting in the fridge as soon as it is cool. I do still take risks though - like everytime we order an Indian or Chinese take-away or eat out I hope they have followed all the rules properly with cooling their rice. Touch wood, ok so far!
Tracey
J&S Bouchard - 20 Dec 2003 22:16 GMT > Joanne, when you say instant rice do you mean the type that comes in little > packets with flavours and bits of dried veg etc added, that you add to a pan [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Tracey So like Minute Rice and Uncle Ben's rice too?
 Signature Joanne Mom to 14 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam"
Tracey - 20 Dec 2003 10:25 GMT > > I wasn't sure whether it was ok to feed uncooked rice - I know rice is > > one of those dodgy foods that can cause bad food poisoning, but maybe [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Zoe :D Thanks for de-lurking Zoe! I wondered, also, whether there would be any chance of uncooked rice expanding in the ratties systems, that's another reason I've never fed it. I know about cooked rice and cooling down quickly if you are planning on re-heating - I always put any of my left-over rice in a container and stand it in a bowl of iced water to cool it down as quickly as possible. My dad and step-mum recently had a very bad bout of food poisoning from re-heated rice that they bought as part of a Chineses ready-meal from the local supermarket - the local environmental health officer told them that rice is one of the worst foods for causing poisoning. And us vegetarians think we are quite safe not eating meat!
Tracey
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