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Pet Forum / Mammals / Rats / March 2004Advise and a rant
I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It seems it is an infringement of the rights of Toys "R" Us, and is going to have to be shut down. I can't believe a multi-billion pound chain store is actually worried a piddly little site like mine will do their name "harm". I suppose it was stupid of me to use ratzrus in the first place, but it sounded so catchy and I didn't think for one minute I was trying to cash in on the Toys "R" Us name. However, if I don't want to be taken to court I have to hand the domain name over to them and shut the site down, by March 8th (they give loads of notice, don't they?). Anyone got any advise for a new name, and how to spread the word about it? Hardly a rant, I guess, too worn out worrying about it to rant much! Nic > I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have > visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nic ACK!!! I refer back to your site all the time!!! Why do you have to shut it down? Can't you just change the name? I can't believe they think that Ratz R Us is even close to Toys R Us...I sure know that difference... Have you thought of seeking legal advice? I'm sooo sorry. I will be writing to Toys R Us and letting them know how ridiculous this is... Can you post the address they have given you? I'm so sorry you are going through this... it's so immature!  SignatureJoanne Mom to 13 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam" > ACK!!! I refer back to your site all the time!!! Why do you have to shut it > down? Can't you just change the name? I can't believe they think that Ratz R [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they have given you? > I'm so sorry you are going through this... it's so immature! Hi Joanne. Apparently they have all rights to the "R Us" and anything related to it, which means any site or company with "R Us" in the title they can challenge and to take court. I'm hoping to just be able to buy a new domain and swap it to that. However, it means the site goes back to obscurity again, until all search engines pick it up and word of mouth goes around. I have spent nearly four years building it up and it crushes me to think of having to start back from scratch again. They didn't actually give me an address, just the solicitor's one, so I'm not even sure which area (be it UK,US or whatever) is contesting this. The bit I have to fill in is only addressed to Toys "R" Us, c/o the solicitors. Mind you, the solicitors are in London, so it's probably the London head branch that are dealing with it, but I can't be certain. I noticed another site called "Rats R Us", and emailed the girl in charge of it, to give her a heads up, just in case. I can't believe a company this size can be so darned petty! Nic > I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have > visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Hardly a rant, I guess, too worn out worrying about it to rant much! I could understand if you sold toys, but who's gonna confuse a rat website with a toy shop? Try and bargain for more time, and ask carefully worded questions that'll force 'em to tell you exactly what about the site is breaking the law, and what things you could do to keep the sites url. Could you simply rename the site, move it to a different address but have the ratzrus url lead you to your site? The other thing you could do is enquire about compensation - if they are going to make you lose 4 years of hard work getting your search engine rankings then they could at least compensate you in some way for the annoyance. There is always the chance that they are just using bullying tactics to scare you into doing something you don't have to 5 working days notice is hardly a reasonable time to get the whole site moved - especially as it is bugger all to do with anything toys 'r' us sells! Send 'em an anoymous present of chocolate coated raisins to pass round the office. > I could understand if you sold toys, but who's gonna confuse a rat website with > a toy shop? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > get the whole site moved - especially as it is bugger all to do with anything > toys 'r' us sells! I actually think I am coming to the conclusion that they haven't a leg to stand on. Having searched the net I have come across quite a few sites where they have tried this. Only a few have shut down, and that could be because they were scared (like I was this morning). Others are still running and most state they will keep running since: a) they are not a commercial company making money becuase of the resemblance to Toys R Us b) TRU only own copyright to the "R US" and "rus.com" (supposedly), therefore there is no copyright infringement at all. c) it is clear their site(s) have nothing whatsever to do with TRU. Like you, I think it is scare tactics. Go after the little people with no money to pay for legal representation to fight it. They seem to be keeping well away from proper companies that could fight them in a court battle, too... > Send 'em an anoymous present of chocolate coated raisins to pass round the > office. This cheered me up no end, thanks! I was thinking of setting up a web page on the site, directing people to their marketing services web page to complain about treatment like this. Do you think anyone would be interested in doing it? Nic > > I could understand if you sold toys, but who's gonna confuse a rat website > with [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Nic Yes, it could be scare tactics... I wouldn't shut the site down...wait it out some more... And do keep us posted. I'll get the raisins ready. ;) SignatureJoanne Mom to 13 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam" I > Yes, it could be scare tactics... I wouldn't shut the site down...wait it > out some more... > And do keep us posted. I'll get the raisins ready. ;) I will certainly keep you updated. Hopefully I'll know a bit more on the legal side in a couple of hours, to at least know my rights. I still can't see how they can shut me down. Nic If Joanne is passing round the Hat for Raisins...by boys wish to contribute. Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > > > > I could understand if you sold toys, but who's gonna confuse a rat [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > out some more... > And do keep us posted. I'll get the raisins ready. ;) > > I could understand if you sold toys, but who's gonna confuse a rat website > with [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > complain about treatment like this. Do you think anyone would be interested > in doing it? Wossnames, I've just sent you an email saying exactly the same as you've just said re: no leg to stand on etc. D'oh! Still, as I said in the email, it's stopped me doing the housework! I'm definately up for complaining at their bullying tactics. I think it's just their legal department trying to justify its budget allocation - if it finds x number of trademark infringements (and stops x %) then it'll continue to get loads of money in each yearly budget. Grrrr. Not exactly good behaviour on their part tho is it? > Wossnames, I've just sent you an email saying exactly the same as you've just > said re: no leg to stand on etc. D'oh! Still, as I said in the email, it's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > stops x %) then it'll continue to get loads of money in each yearly budget. > Grrrr. Not exactly good behaviour on their part tho is it? Received and replied to, thanks. Nic Id let my Rats loose in their pooey old toy shops..:D Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > > I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have > > visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.601 / Virus Database: 382 - Release Date: 29/02/2004 > Id let my Rats loose in their pooey old toy shops..:D Believe me, thoughts like that have been going through my head too ;-). Another site managed not to get closed down by bombarding they customer services email on their site, but I am darned if I can find it to post the link here... Nic > I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have > visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nic Hi. Check here: http://www.chillingeffects.org/domain/ Awesome support website for situations like this. Hopefully you can find enough to fight back. I will sit down and read over it again when I have more time (late for class). HTH SignatureSM Mi enano quiere un asno. > Hi. Check here: > http://www.chillingeffects.org/domain/ > > Awesome support website for situations like this. Hopefully you can > find enough to fight back. I will sit down and read over it again when > I have more time (late for class). Going to have a look through them, too. Hopefully I can find at least one thing to help. The one thing really bugging me now, though, is my address. They previously wrote to me back in January, then again at the beginning of February at my old address. I want to know how they got the hold of that. I only registered the site at this new address, and when at my old one we were ex-directory and couldn't be found on the electoral register (still causes hassles), so I have no idea how they found the address out. Nic What a load of idiots at ToysRUs - how petty can you get? I shall certainly never shop there and shall pass on the word to boycott the place.... Good luck with the fight to keep your website name. Tracey > What a load of idiots at ToysRUs - how petty can you get? I shall certainly > never shop there and shall pass on the word to boycott the place.... > > Good luck with the fight to keep your website name. Thanks, Tracey. I'm holding out for a letter on Monday back from them saying it is dropped, but I can't see it (not yet, anyway!). I've discovered an interesting thing - it seems that in a lot of cases TRU themselves don't even know the letters have been sent, that it is the solicitors doing it off their own bat, probably knowing most times it is easy money and a quick way to stay in favour (if, assuming, it goes their way). If that is the case here, maybe all the letters being sent to TRU will help, and perhaps (probably a long stretch, but you never know!), they will drop it. Nic > Thanks, Tracey. I'm holding out for a letter on Monday back from them > saying it is dropped, but I can't see it (not yet, anyway!). I've [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nic Well things like this are not good publicity for the company. I mean how ridiculous, your website isn't about toys and it is non-commercial, this just makes ToysRUs look very petty indeed. Fingers crossed you receive that letter saying they are dropping the whole thing. Tracey > Well things like this are not good publicity for the company. I mean how > ridiculous, your website isn't about toys and it is non-commercial, this [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tracey I'll make sure and keep everyone updated :-). Nic >I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have >visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >Nic Sorry to hear about your predicament, I could understand if you also sold toys ot=r they sold rats. As for a new name, how about "The Rat Run" or "The Rat-tler" although the second one might get you taken to court by a certain publication. Howard and Julie Mum and Dad to Wallace and Gromit http://community.webshots.com/user/gromitandwallace > Sorry to hear about your predicament, I could understand if you also > sold toys ot=r they sold rats. As for a new name, how about "The Rat > Run" or "The Rat-tler" although the second one might get you taken to > court by a certain publication. This is what I am finding. I thought of RatzLife and someone pointed out that could be taken for That's Life, an old UK program on TV. Ratz Whiskers was another, but I thought it might be too close to whiskas. I was thinking of RatzWorld, since I have another site named similarly, but I can't really decide. I am to see a legal representative on Thursday, so I might wait till then to decide what to do (mind you, the letter said I was to shut the site down on receipt of it!). Nic You are entitled to consult with a lawyer before you do anything and you can tell them that too..:) Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > > Sorry to hear about your predicament, I could understand if you also > > sold toys ot=r they sold rats. As for a new name, how about "The Rat [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Nic Could you just remove the Z..? There is no such thing as too much greed... and these companies really show you how its done... as if anyone can really own a name... who do they think they are kidding...I would imagine that they will lose a few customers over their childish behaviour wether its business or not... I kinda like Ratus..:)) Best of luck and I myself will give them the one finger salute...mlm..:) Regards Kate Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have > visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nic > Could you just remove the Z..? There is no such thing as too much greed... > and these companies really show you how its done... as if anyone can really [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Regards Kate Cheers, Kate! I probably could remove the Z, but it wouldn't remove the problem, as it is the use of the "R Us" they are contesting against :-(. If I can't keep it, which doesn't seem likely, how about ratzworld.co.uk? Nic Well whats in a name anyways..? It will still be a brilliant site regardless..:) Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > > Could you just remove the Z..? There is no such thing as too much greed... > > and these companies really show you how its done... as if anyone can [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Nic > Well whats in a name anyways..? It will still be a brilliant site > regardless..:) I'm really glad you think so! It's just the starting all over again that's really getting me down. Having to relist in search engines, watch it crawl back up to where it is now... A lot of people will have no idea where it has gone, and it has actually helped quite a few. I hate letting people down like that. Nic : I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may : have visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] : : Nic just a question: How long have you had the disclaimer in the page, "we are not affiliated with Toys 'r Us" ? This will show up on some search engines...this maybe how they discovered it. > just a question: > How long have you had the disclaimer in the page, "we are not affiliated with > Toys 'r Us" ? > This will show up on some search engines...this maybe how they discovered it. Since this morning ;-) I put it up earlier in the hopes they won't take me to court for not shutting the site immediately... Nic :: just a question: :: How long have you had the disclaimer in the page, "we are not [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] : : Nic Have you told the papers? Go to the sun's website and tell them.....lay on a sob story.....kid's use the forums etc...big corporation threatening you etc etc, cant sleep at night, doctors put you on tranquilisers. Scan the letter and send it to them if they come back to you..the address is at: http://www.thesun.co.uk/section/0,,23,00.html under got a story? I'd do it if i were you as these people are just using bullying tactics....many websites are fake but the 'real' ones cant do anything about them: www.quotes-r-us.org http://www.whitehouse.com/ (not the official whitehouse site) http://www.macrosofti.com/ www.legs-r-us.com/ www.whitehouse.org/ (ditto!) try a google for r' us....966,000 results when the word 'toys' is put in the 'without' field. > www.legs-r-us.com/ Crikey! > > www.legs-r-us.com/ > > Crikey! > > --- And they aint just legs!!! º_º SignatureJoanne Mom to 13 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam" Now Joanne how do you know that eh?...LMAO Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > > > > www.legs-r-us.com/ [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > --- > And they aint just legs!!! º_º > Now Joanne how do you know that eh?...LMAO Curiosity killed the cat, thank god I've got rats!!! ;) SignatureJoanne Mom to 13 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam" > Have you told the papers? > Go to the sun's website and tell them.....lay on a sob story.....kid's use the > forums etc...big corporation threatening you etc etc, cant sleep at night, > doctors put you on tranquilisers. Tha't not far off the truth anyway! And all I could see last night in my dreams was Toys R Us splashed all over my site and no way for me to change it.... ;-) > Scan the letter and send it to them if they come back to you..the address is at: > http://www.thesun.co.uk/section/0,,23,00.html [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > www.legs-r-us.com/ > www.whitehouse.org/ (ditto!) I was thinking of that, but have been warned off it for now. Take the softly, softly approach, play up on my illness and disability, state is is my only hobby since I cen't get out and about, etc, etc. I'll see how that approach goes first, before becoming tough. > try a google for r' us....966,000 results when the word 'toys' is put in the > 'without' field. Tell me about it! And there are a heck of a lot more way higher up than me that haven't been touched yet, but that's maybe because they would have the money behind them to actually fight it. I contacted Quotes R Us and they haven't had anything yet, but say that is probably because they took the direct approach and put a "Go Ahead, Sue!" on their pages. Another on is Roadkills R Us (a completely satire site) that got their letter way back in 1995, and they are still running. I contacted them but have yet to hear back what all happened. I've asked the company hosting the site (who have been absolutely fantastic over all this) if I can put up a page for anyone wanting to complain (either by mailing me and I pass it on, or directly with Toys R Us). If they give me the go ahead, I'll put it up and place a link here, so anyone wanting to show their disdain can. Nic Threaten with bad publicity. Microsoft got quite a public beating after taking on Mike Rowe's web site. Let them pay. > I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have > visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nic > Threaten with bad publicity. > Microsoft got quite a public beating after taking on Mike Rowe's web site. > Let them pay. Funny, I looked that up last night. Can't see me getting all that, though it would be nice!!! Nic > Threaten with bad publicity. > Microsoft got quite a public beating after taking on Mike Rowe's web site. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> >>Nic Ok. I’ve given this some thought. In the Mike Rowe case, he built a site to show off his programming skills and called the site MikeRoweSoft – an obvious play on word Microsoft). Microsoft’s lawyers, which are (I’m willing to bet) more voracious than Toys R Us lawyers, sent him a Cease & Desist letter. I would write a letter explaining that you have invested years into this project. I would point out how much time you put into it and that your intent is NOT to somehow tarnish their image and that your page does not portray them in a negative light. Explain that even Anti_Freak_Machine on a 5 day drinking binge could not possibly mistake your site for Toys R Us. (Ok, that last one might not work). The key is to open some type of dialog with them. In the Mike Rowe case, they made him a $10 offer to compensate him for his troubles. He responded with a $10,000 price tag. They sent him a 10 page legal letter accusing him of cyber squatting…he sold it on E-bay. Do your homework on sites that have faced similar battles. If you are willing to look, I’m sure a solution can be met. Barring that….Maybe we can offer to help you pick a new name and help spread the word. Good luck. SignatureSM Mi enano quiere un asno. > Ok. I’ve given this some thought. In the Mike Rowe case, he built a > site to show off his programming skills and called the site MikeRoweSoft [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > can be met. Barring that….Maybe we can offer to help you pick a new > name and help spread the word. Good luck. You've left out the killer defence which is that her site is entirely non-commercial AND nothing to do with either toys, toy-r-us, or the retail sector. I'm still at a loss as to what their legal basis is for the objection - I'm not sure how the trademark infringement rules would apply to the domain name, or the name of the site.. What exactly did they say Nic? > You've left out the killer defence which is that her site is entirely > non-commercial AND nothing to do with either toys, toy-r-us, or the retail > sector. I'm still at a loss as to what their legal basis is for the objection - > I'm not sure how the trademark infringement rules would apply to the domain > name, or the name of the site.. What exactly did they say Nic? I have set up a page on the site to do with it, although it's not link as of yet, because we can't decide if it's a good idea or not. But the letter is up there (I photographed it, so it's not the best quality, but still readable) if you want to read through it. http://www.ratzrus.co.uk/toysrus.htm Nic >> You've left out the killer defence which is that her site is entirely >> non-commercial AND nothing to do with either toys, toy-r-us, or the retail [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >http://www.ratzrus.co.uk/toysrus.htm Arrogant, aren't they? I say fight! (But then I'm not being threatened with legal action.) I agree with whoever it was that suggested you contact other websites that have had this sort of thing tried on them to see what they did. --Theresa http://tiger_spot.mapache.org > Arrogant, aren't they? I say fight! (But then I'm not being > threatened with legal action.) > > I agree with whoever it was that suggested you contact other websites > that have had this sort of thing tried on them to see what they did. Have done so, but those who have replied haven't been very helpful :-(. I also have to keep in mind that some of them aren't actually under UK law, but US law, so how they went about it would probably be different from what I can do. Nic P.S. I say fight, too, but only as far as I can go without having to fork out money ;-). > Ok. I’ve given this some thought. In the Mike Rowe case, he built a > site to show off his programming skills and called the site MikeRoweSoft [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > can be met. Barring that….Maybe we can offer to help you pick a new > name and help spread the word. Good luck. I wish! The way my luck goes, I would just end up in court and very much put of money :-( Will probably take you up on the help, though. Nic > I wish! The way my luck goes, I would just end up in court and very much > put of money :-( Will probably take you up on the help, though. > > Nic I just read the letters. Heres my take on this. Screw them. A quick search shows that they have tried this in the past with another other site that was blatently using their name (even moreso than you :) (ToysRgus)http://www.toysrgus.com/toysrusbs.html For an even more interesting read check out the EFF website here in regards to Toys R Us and another WWW lawsuit. If you don't know the Electronic Freedom Frontier is a staunch supporter of free speech. Plus they hate the RIAA, so they cant be all that bad. http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Toys_R_Us/ The bottom line and redeeming factor here is that you are not running a commercial site. This seems to be the crux of their argument/threats. I would respond to their lawyers via certified mail explaining that you are not running a business, your site does not portray their company in a bad light, that you have invested a lot of time and effort into this (even winning some awards) etc...Furthermore, a google search for Toys R us does NOT even bring up any hits to your site! Sidebar: If I were them, I would be more focused on the 1,000s of pages that seem to "tarnish their reputation" by exposing their business practices. feh. If you decide to change the name of your site, I propose you call it ToysRUsSucks. At least then, it will be protected under free speech. Now I digress. Seriously, you need to do your homework regarding laws that pertain to this and how they work where you are from (England I suppose?). Follow the examples that other sites have done to beat this, and you should be fine. SignatureSM Mi enano quiere un asno. > I just read the letters. Heres my take on this. > Screw them. A quick search shows that they have tried this in the past > with another other site that was blatently using their name (even moreso > than you :) > > (ToysRgus)http://www.toysrgus.com/toysrusbs.html been there and looked at it. Contacted him as well, but he wasn't very helpful :-(. > For an even more interesting read check out the EFF website here in > regards to Toys R Us and another WWW lawsuit. If you don't know the > Electronic Freedom Frontier is a staunch supporter of free speech. Plus > they hate the RIAA, so they cant be all that bad. > > http://www.eff.org/Legal/Cases/Toys_R_Us/ Looked at this one as well. Have contacted the site in question, but am still waiting to hear back from them. > The bottom line and redeeming factor here is that you are not running a > commercial site. This seems to be the crux of their argument/threats. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > (even winning some awards) etc...Furthermore, a google search for Toys R > us does NOT even bring up any hits to your site! Exactly, but the girl I spoke to about the legal aspect says all that is irrelevant. No matter how I try to push the "non-commercial" bit and the fact that other sites have no been shut down, she says it still doesn't count for anything. I've to go and see her tonight and am printing as much as possible that I can find (27 pages so far!), to see if it helps any. > Sidebar: > If I were them, I would be more focused on the 1,000s of pages that seem > to "tarnish their reputation" by exposing their business practices. > > feh. If you decide to change the name of your site, I propose you call > it ToysRUsSucks. At least then, it will be protected under free speech. Only to a certain extent, under British Law though... > Now I digress. Seriously, you need to do your homework regarding laws > that pertain to this and how they work where you are from (England I > suppose?). Follow the examples that other sites have done to beat this, > and you should be fine. This is the problem. I can find PLENTY of the UDRP (I think that's it's name), but it doesn't deal with .uk names. Nominet are very vague in what they say, and so far not much else regarding British Law has come up. I did find this, however, which doesn't do me ANY favours... <quote> - 'Rights' not limited to legally enforceable - Includes names - Burden on registrant to show legitimate interest - Generic term is a legitimate interest - 'Unfair advantage' or 'unfairly detrimental' rather than bad faith - Registration or use in bad faith - Burden on registrant to show no bad faith where domain name identical to mark, or tribute or criticism site </quote> <quote> The Canadian, Italian, and U.K. policies sensibly reverse the burden of proof in relation to legitimate interests, so that the complainant does not need to prove a negative. Once the complainant has shown rights in a mark and bad faith (the U.K. policy requires that the registration "took unfair advantage or was unfairly detrimental" rather than was in bad faith), it is for the registrant to show legitimate interests. </quote> It's basically all down to me to prove things, and it seems Toys R Us have very little they will have to actually show proof for, just keep spouting the detrimental bit. The only thing still going for it is that it is in no way identical to the mark, except for the "R Us" bit. Nic That sucks! I'll make sure never buy anything from them! RAT > I run the website Ratz R Us (www.ratzrus.co.uk) which some of you may have > visited, and have done so for about three years now. Not any more. It [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nic > That sucks! I'll make sure never buy anything from them! > > RAT Just make sure and pass it on, too ;-) Nic After a lot of searching I eventually found proper confirmation that under UK law ratzrus.co.uk is perfectly legal and toysrus really are speaking a load of unmentionables. Put simply, ratzrus is non-commercial so Trademark laws don't apply! For more than you ever wanted to know see: http://users.ox.ac.uk/~edip/munden.pdf (it's very readable) but here's the relevent parts, and the reference to the boring legal stuff: (bottom of page 8 and page 9) there are two generally accepted types of action available to protect trade marks that correspond to each of the functions: trade mark infringement to protect the origin function, and trade mark dilution to protect the investment function. A. Protecting Legitimate Registrants The most important point in relation to legitimate registrants is that there is a general requirement of 'commercial use ': the mark must be being used in a commercial manner in order for there to be infringement or dilution.[1] Therefore any non-commercial site...is automatically outside the scope of any trade mark action. [1] European Directive 89/104/EEC of 21 December 1988, Art.5(1); 15 U.S.C. 1114(1)(a), 1125(a)(1), 1125(c)(1). The common law action for passing off has a similar requirement: Warnink v. Townend & Sons [1980] R.P.C. 31, 93. > After a lot of searching I eventually found proper confirmation that under UK > law ratzrus.co.uk is perfectly legal and toysrus really are speaking a load of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > 1114(1)(a), 1125(a)(1), 1125(c)(1). The common law action for passing off has a > similar requirement: Warnink v. Townend & Sons [1980] R.P.C. 31, 93. Nice leg work! Props! So I guess a prompt and cordial reply back to the Toys R Us goons should look something like this: (Feel free to copy and use this nic) Dear Toys R Us No. Regards, SignatureSM Mi enano quiere un asno. > > After a lot of searching I eventually found proper confirmation that under UK > > law ratzrus.co.uk is perfectly legal and toysrus really are speaking a load of [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Regards, LOL SignatureJoanne Mom to 13 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam" > > After a lot of searching I eventually found proper confirmation that under UK > > law ratzrus.co.uk is perfectly legal and toysrus really are speaking a load of [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Regards, If you read that letter, they are basically saying that the connection of rats to Toys r us is hurting the company. SignatureJoanne Mom to 13 rats http://community.webshots.com/user/joanneb70 j-s.b@nospamsympatico.ca remove "no spam" > If you read that letter, they are basically saying that the connection of > rats to Toys r us is hurting the company. That and the us of the "R Us". But how do I prove it's *not* harming the company, that's the big problem... Nic I would think the onus is on the Toy Place to prove they are being damaged... Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > > If you read that letter, they are basically saying that the connection of > > rats to Toys r us is hurting the company. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Nic > I would think the onus is on the Toy Place to prove they are being > damaged... That depends on which law you look at. Unfortunately UK law (which the site would be under) is very vague on who has to prove what. I can't really seem to find an awful lot UK wise, it all seems to be US law (or at least .net, .com,.org, etc). Nic > Nice leg work! Props! > So I guess a prompt and cordial reply back to the Toys R Us goons should [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Regards, Lol!!! If only it could be that simple... I'd prefer "get stuffed" actually, but I doubt that would work, either! Nic God I love it...LOL Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > > After a lot of searching I eventually found proper confirmation that under UK > > law ratzrus.co.uk is perfectly legal and toysrus really are speaking a load of [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Regards, > After a lot of searching I eventually found proper confirmation that under UK > law ratzrus.co.uk is perfectly legal and toysrus really are speaking a load of [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > [1] But reading through it all, is that not more US law than UK? See my earlier post for what UK law covers in terms of domain disputes... I've got it all ready to print, anyway, just in case! Nic WOOHOO... !!!! Now go send those Rat Raisins..LOL Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > After a lot of searching I eventually found proper confirmation that under UK > law ratzrus.co.uk is perfectly legal and toysrus really are speaking a load of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > 1114(1)(a), 1125(a)(1), 1125(c)(1). The common law action for passing off has a > similar requirement: Warnink v. Townend & Sons [1980] R.P.C. 31, 93. Does this mean what I think it means???? http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2235914 Nic So you can see the rest of the registered trademarks: http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/text?searchtext=r+us&typeofsearch=E&classsele cted=99&crosssearch=Y&statusselected=A Note, the RUS is NOT registered to the animal with the long neck :) :) :). It's still registered, but that may be a darned good starting point. Anyone any thoughts on this??? Nic > So you can see the rest of the registered trademarks: > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Nic I emailed you. SignatureSM Mi enano quiere un asno. > I emailed you. Mailed you back :-) To bring everyone up to date. We are fighting it, in a nice polite way. We are now asking them for proof of their claim, since we cannot possibly abide by what they say without it. They'll probably not give us it, just keep saying what they have been saying, so we will probably just keep asking ;-). Who gets tired first, do you think? Nic I would ignore them in the hope they crawl back into the hole they came out of.... Have to wonder though what set them off in the first place... Regards Kate Signaturehttp://community.webshots.com/user/ollieogg > > I emailed you. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nic > I would ignore them in the hope they crawl back into the hole they came out > of.... Have to wonder though what set them off in the first place... > > Regards Kate Will see how this letter goes. An awful lot of other sites got a couple of letters, usually all stating the same thing and never taking into account anything they were replying with, then the letters just dried up. Whether it is the same this time, I don't know, but hopefully! And yes, why mine, why now? It's been running almost three years now and has been in the same position, more or less, in the search engines for about a year. The visitors haven't changed rapidly and still stay roughly the same each month (which kind of proves I am not leeching visitors off them), so why now? What brought it to their attention, I just don't know. Nic >>I emailed you. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nic I just got home and checked my mail. I'm not seeing a reply..resend it please? SignatureSM Mi enano quiere un asno. > I just got home and checked my mail. I'm not seeing a reply..resend it > please? Strange, it hasn't bounced at my end. Another on it's road... Nic |
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