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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Marine Reef / March 2004Ozone
Does anyone know if the ASM G-3 skimmer is ozone safe? Do you plan to run Ozone on your reef tank? Skimmers such as the ASM remove DOCs, and Ozone definitely has an effect on water quality. JB NY has run Ozone on his tank for quite some time now, so he might be the one to contact. You can find JB NY on reefcentral.com as one of the 50,000+ members. Marc > Does anyone know if the ASM G-3 skimmer is ozone safe? -- Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com Yes, I am planning on running ozone on a 110 Gallon reef tank I am putting together (finally moving up from my 55 Gallon) I know skimmers remove dissolved organics before they break down into ammonia and nitrite but I am unfamiliar with the term DOC's. What does it mean? > Do you plan to run Ozone on your reef tank? Skimmers such as the ASM remove > DOCs, and Ozone definitely has an effect on water quality. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com DOC - Dissolved Organic Carbon. Skimmers also remove particulates. ************************** > I am unfamiliar with the term DOC's. What does it > mean? Almost.. Dissolved Organic Compounds. :) Marc > DOC - Dissolved Organic Carbon. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I am unfamiliar with the term DOC's. What does it > > mean? -- Personal Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com/oanda/index.html Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com Nope. It's Dissolved Organic Carbon. http://www.algone.com/protein_skimmer.htm > Almost.. Dissolved Organic Compounds. :) > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Business Page: http://www.sparklingfloorservice.com > Marine Hobbyist: http://www.melevsreef.com > Nope. It's Dissolved Organic Carbon. > > http://www.algone.com/protein_skimmer.htm It appears that both of you are correct as to the meaning of DOC. In the larger literature on pollution and water quality, DOC refers to "Dissolved Organic Carbon", implying that the Carbon is the important part of the mass of organic compounds dissolved in the liquid. Apparently, the use of the more specific "Carbon" in DOC is a result of the method of commonly measuring DOC which only yields the mass of the Carbon involved in organic compounds in the solution. In the aquarium industry, DOC is usually shorthand for "Dissolved Organic Compounds" and refers to a category of pollutants in a discussion of aquarium water quality distinguished from other pollutant categories like "Particulate Organic Matter" (POM), etc. Because aquarists almost never measure quantities of DOC, the distinction between the carbon content of the compounds and the compounds themselves has never been important. As a result, "DOC" has simply come to mean "Dissolved Organic Compounds" in aquarium discussions. It is possible that the larger population of scientists are rather upset that aquarists have hijacked a term and changed its meaning for their own use, but I'm willing to believe that context provides enough information to determine when one is discussing a measurable quantity (Dissolved Organic Carbon) and one of the categories of stuff floating around in our tanks (Dissolved Organic Compounds). Regards, Ross -- Ross Bagley http://rossbagley.com/rba "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature... Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." -- Helen Keller Well, hate to say people are "wrong", but if "aquarists" have mis-defined the word then they've done themselves a disservice in their ability to communicate. When one speaks of your basic bio-filter you are working with the Nitrogen Cycle. Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate are forms of DIN - and I'd think people would want to communicate that with some clarity. Meanwhile, anarobic composting consumes both DIN (Nitrate) and DOC, but does so very little with the Phosphates. To confuse the discussion by lumping it all under "Compounds" makes it nearly impossible to communicate the facts around how anarobic di-nitrating filters work, for example. ******************************* >>Nope. It's Dissolved Organic Carbon. >> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature... > Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." -- Helen Keller No, actually. "Carbon" was correct. DOC is only one class of material in various the nutrient cycles. DIP - Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorous DIN - Dissolved Inorganic Nitrogen DOP - Dissolved Organic Phosphorous DON - Dissolved Organic Nitrogen DOC - Dissolved Organic Carbon POC - Particulate Organic Carbon PON - Particulate Organic Nitrogen POP - Particulate Organic Phosphate Each of these reflect the primary bio-material cycles on Earth. Carbon, Phosphorus, and Nitrogen. There are others, such as Silicon. The rule is simple. We have Dissolved/Particulate, Organic/Inorganic, and the nutrient cycle we're talking about. We use these terms because each class requires certain forms of remediataion. One doesn't, even remotely, treat DIN the same way as POP. Here's some scientific lit. where the term(s) are used correctly... http://www.uea.ac.uk/env/solas/summerschool/handouts/LC2.pdf http://jacquet.stephan.free.fr/engel_ame_2004.pdf ***************************** > Almost.. Dissolved Organic Compounds. :) > > Marc > No, actually. "Carbon" was correct. DOC is only one class of > material in various the nutrient cycles. > > DIP - Dissolved Inorganic Phosphorous > DIN - Dissolved Inorganic Nitrogen > DOP - Dissolved Organic Phosphorous > DON - Dissolved Organic Nitrogen > DOC - Dissolved Organic Carbon These three would seem to sum up to describe the category of DOM - Dissolved Organic Matter Which would then be a substantially better term to use than "Dissolved Organic Compounds" which, as is the topic of discussion, collides with "Dissolved Organic Carbon". > POC - Particulate Organic Carbon > PON - Particulate Organic Nitrogen > POP - Particulate Organic Phosphate While these three would seem to sum up to describe the category of POM - Particulate Organic Matter I can certainly shift to use these terms from the larger scientific discussion in my own language on aquariums. One question, are phytoplankton (algae, bacterial agglomerates, etc.) part of POM or are POC, PON, and POP limited to particles that are nonliving? Seems like it would be useless to attempt to divide them out, so I may have just answered my question... Regards, Ross -- Ross Bagley http://rossbagley.com/rba "Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature... Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." -- Helen Keller > While these three would seem to sum up to describe the category of > POM - Particulate Organic Matter Sure, but wouldn't it be kind of limiting if we just used the term "Color" (Matter/Compounds) to describe all various forms of "Red"(DOC), "Orange"(POC), "Yellow"(DIN), etc.? Of course, if you don't understand the subject or it is not applicable to you (like a total color blind), then the broad term is all you need. In both aquaria, and waste water treatment, it would seem we surely can't say these terms are inapplicable. We use various filters/media/methods, each to specifically address the various classes of pollutants, and their makeup components. If you take it to the extreme, why not just say there is "junk", or "pollution", in our tanks. Not very scientific sounding, perhaps, but if "we" should use DOC in the way you suggest, then why not use a simpler and less confusing word for the stuff? |
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