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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Marine Reef / October 2004starting a new nano tank
Alright, I'm wanting to start a 10gal. nano reef. I've been doing research on this for the last few days, and I went and looked around at stores this afternoon. All the stores I went to had different opinions about what I need and how to go about doing this right. Basically I figured I want a few easy to keep corals. The frags I saw I liked were green frogspawn and some assorted zooanthids, and some green polyps. The fish I want are a mated pair of false percula clowns and a tiger jawfish. Everything in the tank will be: - 2 clowns - 1 jawfish - 3" DSB (carib sea aragonite premium reef floor) - plenum (plans at garf) - the corals mentioned above - 16 pounds of LR (cured Fiji I believe) - a powerhead to stir the water (Any advice on this?) - a 50W submersible heater (I haven't found an ebo jager around here. I see people seem to like those best, any other good ones?) - The lights will be two deluxe 2X13w brightkits from ahsupply.com one set actinic the other 10000k white bulbs. I will put these on two timers to simulate dawn/dusk - Clean up crew. (Not sure on this either. Suggestions?) and that should be it. Anything I forgot? Comments on extra equipment I could use? Is this combination possible? Thanks for your help. -Chris Skimmer?  Signature--- billy --- Need comptech help? Newsgroup: news://news.winextra.com Web: http://www.winextra.com | Alright, I'm wanting to start a 10gal. nano reef. I've been doing research | on this [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] | | Thanks for your help. -Chris First, too many fish. 2 fish is pushing it, yet alone 3. Stick with only polyps and mushrooms for a low light set up. Get a small Rio powerhead. You need more light then 26watts. Get at least 36 if you want to keep any coral. Clean up crew: 10 hermits, 3 small snails, skunk cleaner shrimp. Surf around this site for a couple weeks before you make any purchases: http://www.nano-reef.com > Alright, I'm wanting to start a 10gal. nano reef. I've been doing research > on this [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Thanks for your help. -Chris > First, too many fish. 2 fish is pushing it, yet alone 3. > Stick with only polyps and mushrooms for a low light set up. > Get a small Rio powerhead. > You need more light then 26watts. Get at least 36 if you want to > keep any coral. > Clean up crew: 10 hermits, 3 small snails, skunk cleaner shrimp. Hey, I don't feel so bad then. I have an 8- or 10-gal. hex with live sand and live rock. I bought a fuzzy-legged hermit crab and a red hermit at the fish store, one turbo snail, one smaller snail and when we went to the beach I caught six or seven hermits, a snail, a baby rock crab, a glass shrimp and a few anemones. No fish, power compact bulb, don't know how many watts, that my husband wired into the lid of the tank for me. Are the hermits a bad thing? They have light-colored legs with darker stripes. Cindy No, hermits are great. They feed on algae that grows on rocks and sand. You should be fine with them, as well as the snails. you should ask your husband if he knows how many watts your tank has. Anemones need a lot of light, and are hard to keep. You need to hand feed them little pieces of shrimp or other meaty foods. If your husband says 80Watts or higher, you should be ok. >> First, too many fish. 2 fish is pushing it, yet alone 3. >> Stick with only polyps and mushrooms for a low light set up. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Cindy > No, hermits are great. They feed on algae that grows on rocks and > sand. You should be fine with them, as well as the snails. you > should ask your husband if he knows how many watts your tank has. Anemones > need a lot of light, and are hard to keep. You need to hand > feed them little pieces of shrimp or other meaty foods. If your > husband says 80Watts or higher, you should be ok. Thanks! I have been feeding the anemones. I don't think I do have enough light, they've been opening less lately. Better do something about that. Cindy Also, don't get clowns if you aren't going to have an anemone for it. And you can't have an anemone under low light. You would need at least 80-96Watts (perferably metal halide) > Alright, I'm wanting to start a 10gal. nano reef. I've been doing research > on this [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Thanks for your help. -Chris Well I'll have a combined total of 52W of light out of the (2) 2X13 bright kits. The lfs guys told me that would be plenty over such a small tank to raise even the corals that need stronger light. I read somewhere that clowns will use other things besides anemones as a host if there is not an anemone available. That is why I was going to choose the green frogspawn. Maybe I just haven't done enough research on this. Also I read some places where people had 3 fish in a 10gal nano. Another thing I need to research into more. Hrmmm... If I increased the max water volume by adding a sump would that allow me to have the 3 fish? Or is it just to small a space? OR would a 15H tank allow me to keep the 3 fish? Btw thanks for all the help. -Chris > Also, don't get clowns if you aren't going to have an anemone for it. And > you can't have an anemone under low light. You would need at least [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > > Thanks for your help. -Chris Well think of it this way, there are some families of 7 people living in a 1 bedroom apartment. Its possible, but why put the fish through that? Yeah a clown might host a frogspawn, I've never tried that. With 52W you should be ok with most, but I'd stay away from clams for sure. Try getting a less expensive anemone first, and if that doesn't make it chances are its the light. If you could add a sump, go for it. But it'd be better to get a bigger tank. Sumps require work, and are generally noisy. There's a saying, "the solution to pollution is dilution". > Well I'll have a combined total of 52W of light out of the (2) 2X13 bright > kits. The lfs guys told me that would be plenty over such a small tank to [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] >> > >> > Thanks for your help. -Chris Did you state which 3 fish you would like to keep in there? I forget.... There's one thing to consider about fish selection for such a small tank. You should find out where the fish you want to get like to hang out. For instance, I have a Hi Fin Red Banded Goby (with Randall's pistol shrimp) and a Purple Firefish. The Hi Fin likes to hang out near the sand and its burrow the shrimp made for him. The Firefish likes the water column. They dont even share each other's space so there's no territory to fight about (both fishes are pretty passive anyways, I'm just giving an example). If I was going to add one more fish, which then I'd be going into Im-going-to-get-flamed-on-the-internet territory lol, it would be a Black Clown Goby. They mostly perch in corals which would be the only place my other fish dont go. Oh, I have a ~12 gallon tank with a ~8 gallon sump. ~John Clowns are perfectly fine with no anemone host....... FWIW >Also, don't get clowns if you aren't going to have an anemone for it. And >you can't have an anemone under low light. You would need at least [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > SignatureRic Seyler Sure, but they don't naturally exist like that. Why take that away from them? Again, just because the fish might be ok without it doesn't make it ok. Clowns are perfectly fine with no anemone host....... FWIW J.S. wrote: Also, don't get clowns if you aren't going to have an anemone for it. And you can't have an anemone under low light. You would need at least 80-96Watts (perferably metal halide) Alright, I'm wanting to start a 10gal. nano reef. I've been doing research on this for the last few days, and I went and looked around at stores this afternoon. All the stores I went to had different opinions about what I need and how to go about doing this right. Basically I figured I want a few easy to keep corals. The frags I saw I liked were green frogspawn and some assorted zooanthids, and some green polyps. The fish I want are a mated pair of false percula clowns and a tiger jawfish. Everything in the tank will be: - 2 clowns - 1 jawfish - 3" DSB (carib sea aragonite premium reef floor) - plenum (plans at garf) - the corals mentioned above - 16 pounds of LR (cured Fiji I believe) - a powerhead to stir the water (Any advice on this?) - a 50W submersible heater (I haven't found an ebo jager around here. I see people seem to like those best, any other good ones?) - The lights will be two deluxe 2X13w brightkits from ahsupply.com one set actinic the other 10000k white bulbs. I will put these on two timers to simulate dawn/dusk - Clean up crew. (Not sure on this either. Suggestions?) and that should be it. Anything I forgot? Comments on extra equipment I could use? Is this combination possible? Thanks for your help. -Chris SignatureRic Seyler >in message news:aiidd.5429$gq2.360@trnddc01... >Sure, but they don't naturally exist like that. Why take that away >from them? Again, just because the fish might be ok without it >doesn't make it ok. Yes, it *is* ok. You're misunderstanding the relationship. Please do some research. Clown fish absolultley do NOT need an anenome to survive, or even to thrive. The captive-rasied clown does not know that it's ocean-bred brethren are hiding in anenomes. The only purpose for the relationship is instinctive defense from predators. In your aquarium, there shouldn't be any predators hunting your clown. Start here: http://www.garf.org/trever/anem/anenome.html http://www.garf.org/39/fish/pict.html Though I'm not fond of the design of the GARF site itself, I have very high respect for the information it can provide, as do a great many others. billy No, I think you are misunderstanding my posts. Again, I am not saying clown fish will die without anemones (get the spelling right if you are going to argue), I am saying that it has been well documented and observed that clown fish (which, by the way, are actually called ANEMONEFISH) live a lot healthier and longer when hosting an anemone. And no, it doesn't just protect clowns, anemones also help clean them as well. If you want to start throwing sites out, go ahead. I have 10 for each one you reference. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/clownfis.htm Quotes: "The mutually beneficial behavior of clowns and anemones has been well documented and popularized (see Thomas 1978)" "...chances of keeping and breeding Anemonefishes in captivity is greatly improved in the presence of host anemones." Point is, this hobby isn't just so you can show off to your friends what you've created. You must also respect the creatures in your tank(s) and give them a good home. So either listen to "Billy" and stress out your fish, or listen to me and let them live happily. I'd be willing to adopt your poor fish Billy, I have a good home for them. > >in message news:aiidd.5429$gq2.360@trnddc01... >>Sure, but they don't naturally exist like that. Why take that away [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004 Well I've decided to go with a 29gallon tank. Also a metal halide 250W 12000K unit from aquaticlight.com. That should just about get rid of any problems I may have as far as fish load and what type of corals I can keep. Since the tank is so much bigger, and the LR isn't getting any cheaper, it will take me alot longer before I can even start this tank though. My wife won't let me just go out and blow all that money at once. I have to save.... But just to let you know, when I do get the fish, I will keep an anemone as well. -Chris P.S. Does anyone on here sell coral frags? And happen to live in the southern indiana area? > No, I think you are misunderstanding my posts. Again, I am not saying > clown fish will die without anemones (get the spelling right if you are [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004 >Since the tank is so much bigger, and the LR isn't getting any cheaper, it >will take me alot longer before I can even start this tank though. My wife If you are goint to get the tank, lights, and salt, also get some gravel/sand/mud and at least *some* live sand or rock. Set it up and start it going and add rock as often as your checkbook/wife allows. ;) This will allow your tank to mature. Having a larger water volume with less bioload will also help with any die-off. Critters will populate the tank, and "enliven" the sand/base rock/etc you have... giving you more bang for the buck. (you will essentially be converting cheap dead sand/rock into live sand/rock) Any blooms you have will be easier to deal with since you have less stuff to clean around. This is what I would likely do anyway. Good luck! Signaturebe safe. flip Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch? Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+") alright. So I can skimp and only get about 15 pounds of LR and get all the 'dead' sand (probably carib sea premium grade aragonite) and set up the tank, lights, sand, plenum, and LR for now? Get the rest of the LR later... Then how do I cycle the tank? I've read something about putting in a dead shrimp for source of ammonia. Or can I just let the thing run s-is? -Chris > >Since the tank is so much bigger, and the LR isn't getting any cheaper, it > >will take me alot longer before I can even start this tank though. My wife [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Good luck! >alright. So I can skimp and only get about 15 pounds of LR and get all the think of it as a lagoon with some rocks washed up from the reef. :) >Then how do I cycle the tank? I've read something about putting in a dead >shrimp for source of ammonia. Or can I just let the thing run Well... the bacteria will populate the rock/sand/etc... but as with anything else, it wants food to live. I've heard of folks using straight ammonia to cycle. gotta make sure there are no additives though. I don't know that i'd do it. I'd Throw in some of the eventual clean up crew (hermits and snails) if they don't come with the 15 lbs of live rock. I've used slivers of "reduced for quick sale" marine fish bought at the grocery store to feed them. Not sure i'd go with an entire dead shrimp. Again... I'm no expert.... I have been doing various aquaria stuff for about 10 years though.... and i read a fair bit. I think this is the way to go. Signaturebe safe. flip Ich habe keine Ahnung was das bedeutet, oder vielleicht doch? Remove origin of the word spam from address to reply (leave "+") | No, I think you are misunderstanding my posts. Again, I am not saying | clown fish will die without anemones (get the spelling right if you are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | protect clowns, anemones also help clean them as well. If you want to start | throwing sites out, go ahead. I have 10 for each one you reference. Your own website offering states that some clowns actually do BETTER without an anemone, and I suppose this goes to show that even experts can disagree and, as always, YMMV I stand by my opinion, and of course, you are entitled to yours. However, I never said they'd die without one. Please read posts thoroughly before responding in this manner. I quote from my post: "or even to thrive". I have no interest in trading websites with you, I am well aware that there are many n00bs passing themselves as experts that will tell you that it's more difficult or even impossible to raise and breed happy, healthy, clowns without anemone hosts, and they have websites, I've seen them. Your quickness to insult does not speak well of you. If you interpreted my post as offensive, I grudgingly apologize for that, it wasn't intended as such. For future information, disrespecting a poster for a typo, spelling error, or difference in spelling preference will generally make you look pathetic, desperate and childish, though I recognize that it's a USENET tradition to be anal retentive about such things. Reason #7,345 I spend most of my time in private NNTP servers and RL. billy As I've insinuated before, treat your fish however you please. If you want to keep anemonefish without anemones, go right ahead, it doesn't affect me. I just try to provide my fish with the healthiest lifestyle possible. Yes, I am very meticulous when it comes to this trade. And for future reference, correcting your child-like spelling of anemone was just an attempt to help you make a better argument. I do not see how you can refute or even converse when making blatant grammactical errors. Similarly, many have said Bush would make a better president and debater if he could just speak the English language correctly. Anyways, I need to get back to life. Have a good day. > Your own website offering states that some clowns actually do BETTER > without an anemone, and I suppose this goes to show that even experts [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.775 / Virus Database: 522 - Release Date: 10/8/2004 | correcting your child-like spelling of anemone was just an attempt to help | you make a better argument. Interesting method. || Anyways, I need to get back to life. Have a good day. Indeed. > As I've insinuated before, treat your fish however you please. If you > want [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Anyways, I need to get back to life. Have a good day. I have a true percula that I will have had 14 years in March. It's never had a host other than the rock it staked out as it's territory. I promise you that if you have a clown without an anemone, you aren't condemning it to a life of loneliness and dispair, they will live a long and happy life. Giving someone grief because they don't do things the way you do is wrong, there are as many ways to do it the *right way* as there are people in the hobby. Anyone can toss out websites, but 14 years old and still going strong speaks louder than any idiot with a computer posting on the internet. I seriously hope you don't assume that one fish counts as a consensus for the whole. Very balatant idiotic mistake. > > As I've insinuated before, treat your fish however you please. If you > > want [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Anyone can toss out websites, but 14 years old and still going strong speaks > louder than any idiot with a computer posting on the internet. >I seriously hope you don't assume that one fish counts as a consensus for > the whole. Very balatant idiotic mistake. Were you born an a.s or just gradually develope along those lines as you got older ? I can see why your tank is so important to you, with your attitude no one else can stand to be around you. Most of us try to be civil and friendly here, if it's so hard for you to follow those guidelines, why don't you find another place to post ? I was going to say find a place where you would be welcome, but that would be a search that probably tax your limited mental resources. So why don't you save yourself the headache and simply go away........thank you in advance for your consideration. Whoa man, you need to calm down. This is just aquairum chat, we're not doctors saving lives here. No need to get all riled up about a popular ongoing debate. I don't understand what the big deal was about me expressing my opinions regarding these clown fish. All I'm saying is that it's better to try to give them a natural environment consisting on an anemone. Is that so wrong? It's like saying give a dog a doghouse for it to sleep in. What's so bad about that? Anyways, calm down, grow up, and realize that this is the internet and people are free to express their views. BTW: >Most of us try to be civil and friendly here< Umm, yeah. You're doing a great job there bud. >>I seriously hope you don't assume that one fish counts as a consensus for >> the whole. Very balatant idiotic mistake. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the headache and simply go away........thank you in advance for your > consideration. | anemone. Is that so wrong? It's like saying give a dog a doghouse for it to Wild dogs don't sleep in doghouses. /me ducks and runs billy |I seriously hope you don't assume that one fish counts as a consensus for | the whole. Very balatant idiotic mistake. Not helpful. I'm sure you could have shared that in a much more constructive manner. You mean more like this: > Were you born an a.s or just gradually develope along those lines as you > got older ? I can see why your tank is so important to you, with your [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the headache and simply go away........thank you in advance for your > consideration. ? > |I seriously hope you don't assume that one fish counts as a > consensus for > | the whole. Very balatant idiotic mistake. > > Not helpful. I'm sure you could have shared that in a much more > constructive manner. I understand your logic, but the general consensus among the pros is they aren't really needed. No reason to avoid a clown if you don't have a system to support an anemone :-) > Sure, but they don't naturally exist like that. Why take that away > from them? Again, just because the fish might be ok without it > doesn't make it ok. > > SignatureRic Seyler |
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