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Pet Forum / Aquaria / Marine Reef / April 2005cycling with rock and sand only?
Anyone have any idea how long it should take to cycle with just rock and sand? I started a 75 gal. tank about 3 weeks ago and am still waiting for the nitrites to register. I've got about 40 lbs of well cured live rock and 20 lbs of sand. I'm moving from a 29 to the new 75 and want to make sure the new tank is stable so I don't lose anything. Will adding a live bacteria supplement such as TLC bypass the cycle or just help speed it up. > Anyone have any idea how long it should take to cycle with just rock and > sand? I started a 75 gal. tank about 3 weeks ago and am still waiting for > the nitrites to register. I've got about 40 lbs of well cured live rock and > 20 lbs of sand. I'm moving from a 29 to the new 75 and want to make sure > the new tank is stable so I don't lose anything. Will adding a live > bacteria supplement such as TLC bypass the cycle or just help speed it up. All you have is rock & sand? No animals or fish? If so, it'll never cycle in the true sense. The cycle results from the decay of waste products, such as uneaten food and animal or fish urine. These decay into ammonia, which is processed by bacteria to produce nitrites, which are processed further to produce nitrates. The increases in ammonia or nitrites occur when there are insufficient colonies of bacteria to process things. Even if you do have animals or fish, it's quite possible that the 75 will never undergo a nitrite increase. If the 29 was a fully cycled system, and you moved everything in it over to the 75 and didn't add anything, you probably won't see a noticeable cycle. Your bacteria colonies came along with the sand and rock. George Patterson There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes. > All you have is rock & sand? No animals or fish? If so, it'll never > cycle in the true sense. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > didn't add anything, you probably won't see a noticeable cycle. > Your bacteria colonies came along with the sand and rock. Any live rock, even rock that is "cured" (do not let this term fool you, any rock that has spent more than a few minutes out of established water will undergo some die-off), will produce waste, and the tank will undergo a cycle. You may not see a measureable amount of ammonia or nitrite, or even nitrates, but the tank will cycle. This is my preferred method of cycling, incidentally. It is not a fast cycle, but in this hobby, slow is the best way to go.  SignatureBilly ---- Beta-Tester WinExtra Home Socrates http://www.winextra.com news://news.winextra.com About our newsgroups: http://www.winextra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=36 > You may not see a measureable amount > of ammonia or nitrite, or even nitrates, but the tank will cycle. > This is my preferred method of cycling, incidentally. It is not a > fast cycle, but in this hobby, slow is the best way to go. We're simply using different semantics. Many people consider the cycle to be a situation in which there is a noticeable increase in ammonia, followed by an increase in nitrites. In fact, there's another thread which contains "...fully cycled (i.e amonia and nitrites have increased and then droped[sic]to zero)....." It certainly appears to me that the OP follows this definition. I would say (and, in fact, did) that his tank may not undergo a noticeable cycle. But it may already be or become bacteriologically balanced without one. George Patterson There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes. > We're simply using different semantics. Many people consider the > cycle to be a You're correct, of course. :) Are you saying that it would be safe to move everything at this time? >> All you have is rock & sand? No animals or fish? If so, it'll never cycle >> in the true sense. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > method of cycling, incidentally. It is not a fast cycle, but in this > hobby, slow is the best way to go. > Are you saying that it would be safe to move everything at this time? I'm saying that nothing will happen until you do. The bacterial colonies will not grow until you provide food for them (urea, ammonia, and nitrites). The tank is apparently stable at the moment with the rock and sand which you have in there. If it were my tank, I would transfer at least part of the contents of your 29 now. During a "traditional" cycle, the ammonia levels usually spike at about 10 days, and nitrites become detectable at 14. You've gone 21, so I believe you will not see any increase in nitrites with the tank set up the way it is. I would also say that the contents of your 29 will probably not produce a detectable rise in nitrates when they are added to your 75. The new tank is large enough to absorb the additional load. FWIW, there has never been a detectable increase in nitrates in my 125, nor in the 100 I had before that (and I've moved several times). I've simply never been able to find enough fish that I like to add enough load at one time to cause an increase. Your situation sounds similar. George Patterson There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes. I started out the same way with my 120 gallon tank. 170 lbs, of live rock and 120 lbs of live sand. NO fish. It took 6 weeks. It WILL cycle. I added bacteria but I don't think I really needed to. The live rock was overnighted from Hawaii in an unsealed box and the rocks were wrapped in wet newspaper so these had to cure in the tank. > Are you saying that it would be safe to move everything at this time? > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> method of cycling, incidentally. It is not a fast cycle, but in this >> hobby, slow is the best way to go. I added 90 lbs of LR to a new 72 gallon and lights out for a month. Watched NH3 skyrocket off the charts, then NO2 off the charts, even the daylight from the room caused significant algae growth so it spent a week covered in black garbage bags. After the month was over all levels were zero. That was the longest month of my life, chompin at the bit to get animals in there. It was totally worth the wait. Takes time .... >> All you have is rock & sand? No animals or fish? If so, it'll never cycle >> in the true sense. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > method of cycling, incidentally. It is not a fast cycle, but in this > hobby, slow is the best way to go. David If your live rock was very well cured, you may not see a nitrite peak. The last tank I set up had a peak of amonia after about 3 days, the next day, ammonia and nitrites were zero! (I'm sure that the nitrates peaked but it didn't register on daily tests). Where are your nitrates? You may have missed the nitrites but if the nitrates are up a bit the rock is probably cycled. It's worth checking your source water, if the nitrates are higher in the tank than the source water, then you may well have already cycled. If in doubt, it may be worth putting a couple of shrimp (fresh, frozen but not live!) and carefully watch the ammonia levels, if they increase after a day or two, you haven't cycled properly yet. If you plan to do the biological filtration by live rock alone (and that would be my preference), I would add at least another 40lbs to the existing rock for a 75 gallon tank. I hope it helps. Mark I added a good chunk of frozen shrimp about a week ago. Also added some of the waste from my protein skimmer (not sure this was a good idea or not, but it was high in ammonia) Didn't see any big change in the ammonia. I'm just using test kits so it's hard to get a real accurate reading. nitrates = 0 nitrites = 0 ammonia =between 0 & .25 (been there for a couple of weeks) I realize these are some what vague. I've also noticed a lot of reddish algae which I have associated with ammonia spikes in my other tank. > David > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > ---------------------------------------------------------- |
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