> I'd like to hear opinions/experiences on the above.
> "Mark Cooper" <vikubz@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> The short version is that Toonen & Wee found the following:
> 3. That fine sediments are much better at processing phosphate.
But you must remember the caveat from part one - the coarse and fine
sediments were not from the same source, so differences in phosphate
levels might be due to the makeup of the substrate itself, rather than
any nutrient processing differences of coarse/fine.
> 4. That there is a small but significant improvement in animal mortality
> associated with deep beds.
I'm a little disappointed by their analysis. In their mortality studies
they counted all of the deaths as equal, that is, 1 Puffer = 1 Urchin =
1 hermit = 1 snail.
All deaths are regretable, but from a hobbist's perspective, there is a
difference between loosing your $50 centerpiece puffer and one of your
4/$12 cleanup crew. At the very least, the fish/invertibrate sensitivity
difference should be considered.
> My personal opinion (and it's only an opinion) is that you can't go wrong
> with a deep bed as described by Shimek. You may not absolutely need such a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> corals are an example of this but, as mentioned above, I'm a cold water guy
> so I could very well be wrong.
I'll just add, from the article:
"The basic conclusion from [Julian Sprung's] work (covered in more
detail in Delbeek, Sprung, In press) is that the location and volume of
rock as well as the surface shape of the sand or gravel (e.g., mounds,
sloped, or flat) can dramatically affect the efficiency of water flow,
oxygen diffusion and nutrient processing in the sandbed."
and
"So what does explain the differences among aquaria in these
experiments? Well, it turns out that the best predictor of aquarium
nutrient levels is quite simply the bioload and any animal deaths in the
tanks. Aquaria that had low (even undetectable) levels of ammonia,
nitrite and nitrate would suddenly show a substantial peak in
nitrogenous wastes following the death of an animal in the aquarium
(Fig. 11). Our results suggest that stocking level of the aquarium, and
any animal deaths, have a much greater effect on the overall water
quality than the specific design of the aquarium set-up you chose to
follow."
Tidepool Geek - 25 Jul 2005 20:34 GMT
Hi Rocco,
You make some very good points. If I may, I'd like to append a couple more
thoughts of my own to the discussion:
>> The short version is that Toonen & Wee found the following:
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> levels might be due to the makeup of the substrate itself, rather than any
> nutrient processing differences of coarse/fine.
This is especially pertinent in light of the recent thread about the way in
which the 'phosphate sponge' type products work. My feeling is that this is
a gray area of T&W's findings that we're just going to have to live with.
The nature of ocean sediments and their deposition is such that it's
virtually impossible to get fine and coarse sediments from the same source.
Further, even if you can get coarse and fine from the same or adjoining
geographic area(s) the ocean will most likely have sorted them by density
which, by extension, means that they will be sorted by composition. Probably
the best way to minimize that variable would be to collect a wide variety of
sediments, assay them for their chemistry, and try to use the most similar
(chemically) sediments in both coarse and fine varieties for the experiment.
I suspect that going to those lengths was well beyond the time and financial
resources available.
>> 4. That there is a small but significant improvement in animal mortality
>> associated with deep beds.
>
> I'm a little disappointed by their analysis. In their mortality studies
> they counted all of the deaths as equal, that is, 1 Puffer = 1 Urchin = 1
> hermit = 1 snail.
Another good point, but I think it's arguable that the goals of the
experiment were best served by simplifying the mortality statistics. I do
agree that the mortality stats would have been more useful with the
following addenda:
1. Mortality by weight - obviously, a puffer is a bigger animal than a
hermit. Putting aside the dollar value it would still seem worthwhile to
track how each system did with respect to keeping its total biomass alive.
2. Mortality of vertebrates versus invertebrates - I'm not sure if this is
absolutely true but the 'conventional wisdom' is that inverts are usually
more sensitive to water quality problems. OTOH: I got the impression that
some of the inverts selected were intertidal animals that might be expected
to be more robust.
> "The basic conclusion from [Julian Sprung's] work (covered in more detail
> in Delbeek, Sprung, In press) is that the location and volume of rock as
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Well, it turns out that the best predictor of aquarium nutrient levels is
> quite simply the bioload and any animal deaths in the tanks.
I think that the value of T&W's experiment is that it helps give some
insight into why a given system works or why certain problems might arise. I
don't think it was their intent to determine what system is the best. Such a
determination is probably impossible given the variety of goals in
establishing an aquarium. If you were to list the 'perfect' components of
several types of aquaria (fish only, cephalopod, SPS reef, seahorse, etc.)
and showed them to someone with no foreknowledge (a Martian?) that person
might not even recognize that each was intended to simulate an ocean
environment.
Of course, T&W's experiment could have been more complete. They could have
used bigger tanks, a broader variety of animals, and, perhaps most
important, a much longer time frame. Unfortunately, such an expanded test
would have required several orders of magnitude more resources. Given the
constraints they had to work under this was a very valuable exercise.
The aquarium hobby is fortunate to have such people as Toonen, Wee, Delbeek,
Sprung, Shimek and others who are, not only dedicated hobbyists, but also
people trained in the scientific method. Taken alone, T&W's work is
interesting and useful but I think its true value can only be realized by
thinking of it as a building block to be used in conjunction with the work
of the other experts in the field.
Pontificationally yours,
TPG