 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Pet Forum / Aquaria / Marine Reef / April 2007Clown fish behaviour
I have had a couple of Clownfish (one male/one female) in my Nano tank (15 gall) since last November - no other fish just inverts.....from time to time they can be a little nippy and agressive when I do any maintenance on the tank (ouch...been bitten). Tonight they are acting slightly differently....basically they are attempting to attack any reflection of themselves in the glass....the female is slightly more aggresive than the male but that isn't saying much....he is going for it as well.....the female is chasing and nipping at the male but the male is still being persistent in following the female.....is it possible that they might be thinking about spawning? Gill >I have had a couple of Clownfish (one male/one female) in my Nano tank > (15 gall) since last November - no other fish just inverts.....from time [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > is still being persistent in following the female.....is it possible > that they might be thinking about spawning? Quite possible... have you noticed a place for possible nest? Piece of flat rock, near bottom (sand) and fish cleaning it? > Quite possible... have you noticed a place for possible nest? > Piece of flat rock, near bottom (sand) and fish cleaning it? You may want to add a shard from a clay pot or similar. They may be ripe for a spawn, but have no where for a nest. --Kurt >>Quite possible... have you noticed a place for possible nest? >>Piece of flat rock, near bottom (sand) and fish cleaning it? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > --Kurt Thanks Kurt and Pszemol for your helpful responses....much appreciated. As for spawning sites they do seem to be investigating places - one is behind the LR under the Protein Skimmer and the other, unfortunately, is a colony of button polyps who are getting a good cleaning at the moment. However, they do not seem as frantic as they were last night....although the male is still hurling himself at his reflection (hope he doesn't hurt himself)....providing a cave might well be a good option. Is it the flat surface/rock that they are looking for or is it some form of cover....I certainly have some slate lying around... If they don't spawn this time should I take it as a good sign that they will in the future? I'm only asking as this might impact my decision on the future of the tank - I'm toying with pulling it down and putting the contents into my new 350L (when it arrives - should be next week), but if the clownfish are likely to spawn I'm thinking it might be best to leave them put. Thanks again Gill > As for spawning sites they do seem to be investigating places - one is > behind the LR under the Protein Skimmer and the other, unfortunately, is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > flat surface/rock that they are looking for or is it some form of > cover....I certainly have some slate lying around... Normally it would be a flat piece of rock near the sea bottom in the very close vinicity of the anemone they live in... If you do not have an anemone you could encourage them to make a nest on a piece of the broken flower pot or a wall tile. This way some day you could atempt rising larvae outside of the tank in a dedicated setup... It is laborious but fun to watch little clown babies to grow and then metamorphose into adult looking specs of dust :-) > If they don't spawn this time should I take it as a good sign that they > will in the future? I'm only asking as this might impact my decision on > the future of the tank - I'm toying with pulling it down and putting the > contents into my new 350L (when it arrives - should be next week), but > if the clownfish are likely to spawn I'm thinking it might be best to > leave them put. I would not worry about it... Setup the tank as planned. Clowns spawning in a fish tank is pretty common even and once they mature and agree on their roles in this relationship (smaller assumes the role of a male) than if fed well they lay new eggs every 2-3 weeks. > Normally it would be a flat piece of rock near the sea bottom > in the very close vinicity of the anemone they live in... > If you do not have an anemone you could encourage them to > make a nest on a piece of the broken flower pot or a wall tile. I don't have an anemone at the moment as I couldn't adapt the tank for sufficient lighting to support one properly - it currently has 3 T8s which has been fine for the soft corals that I have. They seem to be interested in a piece of rock that is home to some mushrooms but not fully covered by them. This is sheltered by a cave which is home to a couple of feather dusters....not sure if it might not be a bit space challenged for such activity. The tank itself is only 15gall. > This way some day you could atempt rising larvae outside > of the tank in a dedicated setup... It is laborious but fun to watch > little clown babies to grow and then metamorphose into adult > looking specs of dust :-) Now that would be fun :-) I've certainly got some small tanks sitting around that I could use as an initial nursery with little problem. When we were on holiday last year we went to La Rochelle's Aquarium - amazing place...they had a small tank dedicated to clown fry - it was just soooo cute. > I would not worry about it... Setup the tank as planned. > Clowns spawning in a fish tank is pretty common even and > once they mature and agree on their roles in this relationship > (smaller assumes the role of a male) than if fed well they lay > new eggs every 2-3 weeks. When I got the clowns around 5 months ago I picked one large and one small for just this reason. The smaller one certainly has always appeared to have taken the male role - so I guess I'm in with a chance. Maybe they won't do much this time but at least they are looking as if it is on the agenda in the future. My concern with moving them into the larger tank was really a concern that if they do spawn then the survival chances go down because of other fish being present - right now they are the only fish in the tank. Think I will have to go and research clownfish parenting behaviour :-) Thanks Gill >> Normally it would be a flat piece of rock near the sea bottom >> in the very close vinicity of the anemone they live in... [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > couple of feather dusters....not sure if it might not be a bit space > challenged for such activity. The tank itself is only 15gall. You do not need to have an anemone to succesfully breed clowns. In fact, I read somewhere, professional fish hatcheries do not use anemones in tanks where clowns breed. They just have a section of a tank with a small hill made of rocks, somoe cleaner shrimp and two clowns (breeding pair). My clowns never layed eggs in any cave - they do it on a sunny piece of rock and guard the nest fiercefully against any tank mate being too close to the nest (too close in their opinion :-) ) >> This way some day you could atempt rising larvae outside >> of the tank in a dedicated setup... It is laborious but fun to watch [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > place...they had a small tank dedicated to clown fry - it was just soooo > cute. The problem is that rising clowns fry is something like 6 months commitment: 2-3 daily feedings, water changes, chemistry monitoring - a lot of work and olmost no profit later... Fish stores rerelly pay more than 8-10 USD for fish, and to fetch this price fish must be in an excellent condition. This is my own experience with maroon clownfish I was breeding and trying to sell in the Chicagoland fish stores... So you need to agree with yourself you do it for fun, not for profit :-) >> I would not worry about it... Setup the tank as planned. >> Clowns spawning in a fish tank is pretty common even and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Maybe they won't do much this time but at least they are looking as if > it is on the agenda in the future. If fish were never treated with some harsh medicine for some disease rendering them impotent it is almost guaranteed they will breed, sooner or later :-) You just need to make sure you feed them a lot... I noticed with my breeding pair of maroon clowns very strong corelation with the amount of feeding and the size of the nest (number of eggs). When I reduced feeding temporarly during some algae outbreak fish lay very small amount of eggs, sometimes skip their regularly scheduled egg laying day and do not spawn at all if there is not enough food. > My concern with moving them into the larger tank was really a concern > that if they do spawn then the survival chances go down because of other > fish being present - right now they are the only fish in the tank. Survival of what? If you have fry on your mind, than they have no chances in the main tank no matter how many fish is there... Parents will eat them, pumps will grind them to pieces and they will end up in the skimmer/sock filter. The only chance for fish larvae survival is to move the whole nest (piece of the flower pot/wall tile with eggs) near the end of the 8th day of incubation out of the tank to their dedicated setup with the air line only and small heater. The tank cannot have any powerheads... > Think I will have to go and research clownfish parenting behaviour :-) The good anchor point for your research will be this book: http://www.amazon.com/Clownfishes-Joyce-D-Wilkerson/dp/1890087041/ Excellent book! Treat is as a "clownfish keeping bible" :-) This is the information source I used for my breeding clowns attempts and my two 1st attempts of rising larvae were succesful. I recomend. > My clowns never layed eggs in any cave - > they do it on a sunny piece > of rock and guard the nest fiercefully against any tank mate being > too close to the nest (too close in their opinion :-) ) My hand in the tank is normally too close for the female lol....and that is without a nest to protect... > The problem is that rising clowns fry is something like 6 months > commitment: 2-3 daily feedings, water changes, chemistry monitoring - a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This is my own experience with maroon clownfish I was breeding > and trying to sell in the Chicagoland fish stores... > So you need to agree with yourself you do it for fun, not for profit :-) Maroons command a higher price over here than the common clowns that I have. However, I would be only doing it for fun - any credit from my LFS would just be a bonus. > If fish were never treated with some harsh medicine for some disease > rendering them impotent it is almost guaranteed they will breed, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > skip their regularly scheduled egg laying day and do not spawn at all > if there is not enough food. I presume, as with freshwater fish, an emphasis on a higher protein food such as brine shrimp would assist in conditioning them for breeding - they mainly get flake at the moment with frozen brine shrimp as a treat...of course they will also eat anything else tasty that makes the mistake of floating past them... > Survival of what? > If you have fry on your mind, than they have no chances in the main [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > day of incubation out of the tank to their dedicated setup with the > air line only and small heater. The tank cannot have any powerheads... Would you suggest just a bare bottomed tank or would it be an idea to add some live rock in there as well? > The good anchor point for your research will be this book: > http://www.amazon.com/Clownfishes-Joyce-D-Wilkerson/dp/1890087041/ > Excellent book! Treat is as a "clownfish keeping bible" :-) This is the > information source I used for my breeding clowns attempts > and my two 1st attempts of rising larvae were succesful. I recomend. Just ordered it thanks :-) Should be here mid next week..... Gill > My hand in the tank is normally too close for the female lol....and that > is without a nest to protect... Normal. >> So you need to agree with yourself you do it for fun, not for profit :-) > > Maroons command a higher price over here than the common clowns that I > have. However, I would be only doing it for fun - any credit from my LFS > would just be a bonus. $8-10 was this "higher price". In many stores these fish are priced $19.99 in retail so no wonder store owners do not want to pay more than $10. Occelaris (you well known "Nemo" clowns) are more common and cheaper but stores can take more of them from you at the time... The amount of work to rise fry is probably the same, so go figure. > I presume, as with freshwater fish, an emphasis on a higher protein food > such as brine shrimp would assist in conditioning them for breeding - > they mainly get flake at the moment with frozen brine shrimp as a > treat...of course they will also eat anything else tasty that makes the > mistake of floating past them... Brine shrimp is way too small food for adult maroon clowns... My female, larger in the pari, eats "MARINE A" pelets by Hikari exchanged with frozen "Marine Plankton" by San Francisco Bay. Male has smaller mouth so MARINE A is slightly too big for him. He takes flakes, frozen plankton and any other smaller items. To my surprise, they do not eat dried seawed, like some books teach... They are exclusively carnivorous :-)) > Would you suggest just a bare bottomed tank or would it be an idea to > add some live rock in there as well? No live rock - bare bottom tank with the air line (no stone at the end). Heater is, of course, mandatory. Everything will be explained in great details in the book I recomended - no point of repeating it here. > Just ordered it thanks :-) Should be here mid next week..... Research good supply of live rotifers and artemia cysts (brine shrimp) in your area - you will have to supply LARGE quantities of rotifers packed with algae (green water) and addition of fatty acid like in SELCON to provide good nervous system developement in the first couple of days and weeks of fish live... Read online about "sudden fright syndrome" as a reasult of malnutrition in fry to prevent mistakes I made and which almost costed me whole spawn... Luckily I recognized symptoms in time to apply corrective action (SELCON!!). I tried once to breed some platies (freshwater) but the mother was eating the newborns as soon as they could swim. I had to get a device where they fell into and could go back to the top where the mother was. Does that happen with clownfish too? Just curious, Ruben > >> Normally it would be a flat piece of rock near the sea bottom > >> in the very close vinicity of the anemone they live in... [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > This is the information source I used for my breeding clowns attempts > and my two 1st attempts of rising larvae were succesful. I recomend. > I tried once to breed some platies (freshwater) but the mother was eating > the newborns as soon as they could swim. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ruben I guess with Clownfish and Platys the rule that "if it fits in the mouth it is food" applies irrespective of the fish - although some cichlids do display better parental skills - I'm thinking convicts (but this is based on heresay and research) where whole generations will protect and bring up the fry.....I would imagine that there are also some marine fish that also follow this kind of philosophy (if indeed it is possible to state a fish has a philosophy - maybe instinct is a better word).... With Platys the key is cover.....plants, moss and indeed stringy algae....I see that this is an issue with a reef tank.....but by the same token it is an issue in a classic sparsely planted Mbuna Cichlid Tank at which point the holes in the rocks provide cover for the fittest of the fry to survive....and by the state of the population in my Mbuna tank this does work to a certain degree..... I guess with Clownfish, Platys and indeed any other fish whether they are freshwater or marine the criteria is how many we want to survive and how best to do this..... Gill > I tried once to breed some platies (freshwater) but the mother was eating > the newborns as soon as they could swim. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Ruben OK....apologies for a second post but I've thought on your question a bit more.... Live bearer fry, such as Platys, Mollies, Guppies and Swords (apologies for any I've missed) are born free swimming.....this means that they immediately appear as possible food....from my experience whilst the female is still giving birth her thoughts may be somewhere else other than eating her babies...but other fish in the tank will usually have other ideas.....and it is not unkown for other fish to learn to recognise that a female livebearer is gravid enough that they can follow her to get a tasty snack when the time is right.....my only great success in raising livebearer fry was to isolate the female in a breeding tank when she is about ready and then remove her as soon as the birthing process has completed....but I did end up with more Platy fry than I knew what to do with.... With Mouth brooding fish such as Mbuna the fry do best with the mother until they are free swimming IMO although I do know that some breeders will strip the females of the fry....the key to sucess is to catch the brood before the other fish eat them or to isolate the female until such a point as she spits them out..... Cichlids such as Convicts will raise a family and other siblings are known to protect them.....but not having owned any this is hearsay.... With egg laying fish the situation differs.....and then it depends if the eggs are layed in a "nest" or scattered. Often, with "nest" spawns the adult fish know how to look after the eggs to give a better success rate of hatching - fanning of the eggs and removal of those that have gone bad springs to mind but cannot be counted on.....but once those fry hatch they are food to a lot of fish in the tank if not their parents..... The key, is to research the parenting habits of the fish in question....they are all different.... Gill > I tried once to breed some platies (freshwater) but > the mother was eating the newborns as soon as they could swim. > I had to get a device where they fell into and could go back > to the top where the mother was. > > Does that happen with clownfish too? No... it is totally different set of problems... :-) Shortly: Clownfish hatch from eggs, platies are born fully formed Clownfish hatched from eggs are *larvae*, which mean they are NOT fully developed fish yet. They do not swim well, they do not digest food well, they do not know how to eat well and depend strongly on hunting instincts => food has to be live and very, very small to fit in mouth in one bite. Clownfish hatch at night all together, so suddenly you have 600-2000 small mouths to be fed and YOU are the "God" who provides food and cleans the waste produced... In the Nature they are attracted by slight light of Moon or rising Sun and float to the surface, where is plenty of plankton to eat, and where they become plankton to be eaten by larger animals, too... In the fish tank you are the only supply od the food (live rotifers are first food item). Concentration of food items in the water where you keep growing larvae has to be quite high to increase success rate for larvae hunting so water quality and food supply are two major problems. Survival rate of platies can be 100% in an average tank with plenty of floating plants. Clownfish - totally different. 10% survival rate would be good for a beginner tank owner... It is estimated that 1 egg per 20000 becomes adult clownfish in the ocean... (I do not know how did they estimate this!) Platies you will have maybe 6-20 small baby-fish so in a tank with a lot of floating plants there is no problems with babies to hide and to avoid being eaten. Platies baby-fish are well developed so they can right away take large food particles as flakes and bit a chunk of the larger piece - clownfish larvae are not able to do it... The best way to get the feeling is of course to try do it yourself :-)) But you may want to look up some aquarist in your area rising clownfish larvae so maybe you could pay him/her a visit... In Chicagoland, Far West suburbs residents have a chance to visit nice store in De Kalb, IL It is called RodsReef.com and Rod has always some small clownfish growing in there... so I would recommend visiting him. He also has a constant supply of live rotifers for himself, so he makes the surpluss available for people purchasing something in his store. To end with an optimistic accent - it is agreed that the clownfish are the easiest fish to breed and rise larvae in the marine fish tanks compared to other marine fish... :-) >> I tried once to breed some platies (freshwater) but >> the mother was eating the newborns as soon as they could swim. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > clownfish are the easiest fish to breed and rise larvae > in the marine fish tanks compared to other marine fish... :-) I dunno, Iv'e always felt my mollies bred easiest of all me reef fish. :-) the domino damsels seem easy to get to spawn too >> To end with an optimistic accent - it is agreed that the >> clownfish are the easiest fish to breed and rise larvae [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > me reef fish. :-) > the domino damsels seem easy to get to spawn too First, I was talking not only about spawnin, but also rising larvae/fry. Many fish spawn, but to rise their larvae is a much bigger challenge compared to clowns. Second - I do not consider mollies to be a kind of reef fish :-) Yes, they stand prolonged time in salt water, but they do not live on reefs naturally. >>> To end with an optimistic accent - it is agreed that the >>> clownfish are the easiest fish to breed and rise larvae [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > rising larvae/fry. Many fish spawn, but to rise their > larvae is a much bigger challenge compared to clowns. Have yet to do it myself but I know someone who has raised reticulated and domino damsel. Sounded about on par with clowns. > Second - I do not consider mollies to be a kind of > reef fish :-) Yes, they stand prolonged time in salt > water, but they do not live on reefs naturally. I have seen pictures of mollies swimmin in the ocean. Prob just flushed outta fresh streams but, Pressures on now to find a link with a pic of mollies in coral I spose. I agree of course...... But I have bred/raised thousands of marine fish if mollies are included. Pretty much zero death rate too. Was always told they would not breed in full marine. But thats nonsense. Prolonged in this case means over a year too! W00000t I can see the only way to win this is to go realease millions of mollies on all the worlds reefs. Might just wait until after this big die off thats coming..... place will need a bit of colour after all! Other than that clowns do seem the pick of marines to breed. Easy to sell and not as difficult to raise as most. One tip I have heard a lot is to control the frys location with lighting. If the light is in the middle of the tank, fry move towards it. Helps keep them off the tank walls, and lets ya target feed them easier. "CLEAN SEAS HAS MALE TUNA SPAWNING Following on seven year's work, Cleans Seas Tuna has induced male southern bluefin tuna to spawn at its land-based facility on the Eyre Peninsula. The company's shares increased in value by 20 per cent when the news broke. Cleans Seas has gone to great lengths to make such an achievement. Live fish were transported by helicopter to the facility. To cause them to spawn the workers arranged hormonal treatments, artificial moonlight and sunlight, and currents in the water. The next step in the project is to have female fish produce eggs at the site, and this is expected to occur quite soon. The company has enlisted internationally-acclaimed scientists to break this new ground. Clean Seas chairman Hagen Stehr believes the company has the potential to duplicate Australia's 5200-tonne southern bluefin tuna annual quota in a decade - with no impact on wild tuna stocks. Source: Mark Hawthorn in the Independent Weekly (31/3/2007); Nigel Austin in the Adelaide Advertiser (29/3/2007)." Mollies are brackish fish, and they do much better in full salt water than they do in full fresh water. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Wayne@WaynesPets.com It's way to early to take Gill out of the kill file. Wayne Sallee Wayne's Pets Wayne@WaynesPets.com Pszemol wrote on 3/22/2007 10:48 PM: >> I have had a couple of Clownfish (one male/one female) in my Nano tank >> (15 gall) since last November - no other fish just inverts.....from [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Quite possible... have you noticed a place for possible nest? > Piece of flat rock, near bottom (sand) and fish cleaning it? > It's way to early to take Gill out of the kill file. Please! That's not get petty around here. > It's way to early to take Gill out of the kill file. Acording to my software it must be the time already otherwise I would not see his message :-) |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.