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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / January 2005Where to buy prescription food online?
Hi, my cat Charlie has been diagnosed with urinary crystals, and has to be on a prescription diet for good from now on :( So since his prescription food is rather expensive, (and it seems other 4 tend to munch it more then him), just wonder if anyone knows any good online stores that sell prescription foods. He is on Walthams "Royal Canin" Feline Urinary LP34, and vet advised he stays on it for the rest of his life. I run a google search but only got one result for UK, http://www.petdrugsquick.co.uk , but although cheaper then my vets, I just wandered if you know any other sites. I don;t mind buying from abroad. Also as an alternative, Hills CD and I think KD. Thanks Gee Gee, Prescription Diets are only available through a veterinary clinic. You maybe able to find the Royal Canin product online at PetSmart - the Banfield veterinary clinics inside PetSmart may sell it online, but I doubt the price will be much better. ps - k/d would be the WRONG food to feed this kitty, the objective of k/d is drive urine pH upwards, rather than drive in more towards the acidic range. This is assuming the type of crystals are struvite rather than Calcium Oxalate. > Gee, > Prescription Diets are only available through a veterinary clinic. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > acidic range. This is assuming the type of crystals are struvite rather > than Calcium Oxalate. Thnx, I'll check the site. Yeah he's got Struvites. Ok, I wasn;t sure which Hills exactly would be suitable vet mantioned there is 2 types but I guess KD was my mistake :) Gotta ask him again :) > > Gee, > > Prescription Diets are only available through a veterinary clinic. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > suitable vet mantioned there is 2 types but I guess KD was my mistake :) > Gotta ask him again :) Hill's Prescription Diet c/d is the one you want for the struvite. I have a female Pug that is on the Presciption c/d for struvite crystals. She's on the canine variety, of course. She still gets the UTI about once a month, but the c/d has helped considerably, since she used to have them continually. Apparently, the puppymill where she was rescued from never treated her UTIs. I'm thinking of trying cranberry extract. Anyone know if this supplement has any positive effect on dogs with persistant UTIs? Thanks, Brigitte Brigitte, There is no data that indicates cranberry powder/juice etc will have any positive effect on dogs. The mode of action in human females is not to reduce urine pH (make more acidic) but rather the active chemical in cranberry juice seems to inhibit bacterial growth on the bladder wall in women. It is unknown if this effect ocurrs in dogs. There are no known contraindications, so it won't hurt to try it. Unfortunately we often expect the same results in our pets as we get in humans and it often does not work that way. Almost all LUTD stone formations in dogs are the result of urinary tract infections. This is radically different than in cats where most uroliths are sterile and not related to infection. You may want to consider having the urine drawn by cystocentesis (needle through the side into the bladder wall) and then having the bacteria cultured to see what the bacteria will respond to. Often the course of antibiotics needs to be extended beyond the normal 14 day period to a full month or more to eradicate the little buggers. As in all cases talk to your veterinarian who is the only person who knows your animal well enough to make any judgement. > I'm thinking of trying cranberry extract. Anyone know if this supplement > has any positive effect on dogs with persistant UTIs? .............a substance in cranberry extract keeps the bacteria from adhering to the bladder wall. There's some research on it if you want to check PubMed. buglady take out the dog before replying > Thnx, I'll check the site. > Yeah he's got Struvites. Ok, I wasn;t sure which Hills exactly would be > suitable vet mantioned there is 2 types but I guess KD was my mistake :) > Gotta ask him again :) Actually, the other food is probably Hill's s/d, which is specifically for struvite crystals and stones. c/d also helps with struvites, but it doesn't appear to be indicated for stones. (the s of s/d stands for stones, the c of c/d stands for crystals) I have a cat with interstitial cystitis, and she often has struvites in her urine. Once I got her taken care of for acute problems, I was able to manage the struvites with Wellness food (it is low in magnesium and other triggers, and it's not much different from c/d as far as the levels are. When we compared them, Wellness was actually better than c/d). When I switch the food, she has problems (we switched to Purina DM in an attempt to get her to lose weight. DM is a newer food for diabetics with fewer carbs, and some cats who struggle to lose weight do so on that food. In her case, it made her bladder problems come back. So she was put on s/d and is being weaned back to Wellness). Anyway, the two things that we do for her for maintenance are give her glucosamine/chondroitin daily, as well as a urinary acidifier. There are various types of acidifiers out there. You want to make sure that the cat's urine is moderately acidic, and not excessively so as that can cause problems too. The glu/chon mix really helps with bladder inflammation. This may or may not translate to actually helping with the incidence of infections and crystal formation, but it does help reduce bladder inflammation. As a matter of fact, a friend of mine recently started glu/chon with her cat who has recurring infections and crystals, and it's the longest her male cat has gone without a problem (she started it a month ago, and it's been exactly a month since he had a problem). In the states, you can get almost three months of Cosequin for cats for 20 bucks, and a urinary acidifier runs about 8 bucks for that same amount. Once my cat started on the glu/chon and urinary acidifier, she went over a year without a problem, until I stupidly changed her food. (and when I say the wellness was better than the c/d, it was at that time. I don't know if the c/d formula has changed since then, and I don't believe the Wellness has. Wellness food has been recommended for cats with bladder problems because of this, the site is www.oldmotherhubbard.com and you can find some articles online referring to it. You can also find information about glu/chon and bladder health in cats online as well). I hope this helps. The glu/chon certainly can't hurt to try. natalie  SignatureWhat fresh hell is this? --- Dorothy Parker >In the >states, you can get almost three months of Cosequin for cats for 20 bucks, Where? A place you've found to be reliable, of course. I'm paying that much for 40 doses of cosequin right now. >>In the >>states, you can get almost three months of Cosequin for cats for 20 bucks, > Where? A place you've found to be reliable, of course. I'm paying that much for > 40 doses of cosequin right now. I get it from my vet. Lots of places have the 80 caps Cosequin for cats for under 20 bucks, like Drs Foster and Smith (which is an expensive place to get stuff, but the Cosequin price seems about average to me). http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3571&Ntt=cosequin% 20cat&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=0&Nty=1 or http://tinyurl.com/6zpl3 natalie SignatureWhat fresh hell is this? --- Dorothy Parker >I get it from my vet. Lots of places have the 80 caps Cosequin for cats >for under 20 bucks, like Drs Foster and Smith I get mine from my vet, too. Thanks for the reference -- I think I'll ask my vet if there's any diffeence between what they're selling and what I can get at F&S. "Natalie Rigertas" <rigertas@gauss.math.luc.edu> wrote in message news:NIaGd.10091 > I have a cat with interstitial cystitis, and she often has struvites in > her urine. Once I got her taken care of for acute problems, I was able to [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > natalie Thanks Natalie for the details. I'm in UK, so never seen this Wellness foods, but will look into it and consult my vet. He swears by what he put my Charlie on, Walthams Royal Canin Urinary LP34, and so far Charlie seems to be doing well on it,and his urine blood count has come down from 5.5 to 3.5 on it in less then a week. We are going for the next urine check up at the end of Jan, so will see how he's doing. My Vet said that Royal Canin is doing both job of Hills c'd AND s/d so he doesn't see the need for me to switch to Hills. This food isalso fine for all cats to eat, not just the ill one.You might wanna consider it well, see what your vet says. Its not cheaper then Hills tho :) About £36 for 6Kg bag dry.They also makewet sachets food as well,which Charlie is not most impressedwith but likes the dry. My vet also said there is no need for extra acidifiers cos this food is enough -or something I don't remember what he said exactly. As for keeping the urine acidic, is there anything you can use at home to check it? Vet charges me £45 just for a simple urine test! OK I guess he checks blood in it as well. The glu/chon mix you mentioned sounds good as well, so will check that out. Thank you Best wishes Gee Cats with urinary tract issues should NOT be fed dry food. Recommending that a cat that has had a UTI has to be on a prescription food "for life" is a crock and totally unnecessary. It pisses me off to no end how many vets pull this crap. Feeding a wet, species appropriate diet that promotes a neutral ph is the best way to prevent the formation of crystals, nullifies a "need" to put a cat on a prescription food "for life" and is better for a cats health. Here is a good page that explains quite well how crystals can be avoided: http://www.geocities.com/Petsburgh/Zoo/5650/flutd.html And more on why dry food is bad for cats: http://catsincanada.com/articles/feeding.html More articles on feeding a cat properly can be found here: http://www.catnutrition.org Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Sigh, Megan, the reality is that consumers want the ease and simplicity of a dry food. You aren't going to change that with every pet owner. The second reality is that about a gazillion cats have been fed a DRY urinary food of some kind with great success, and without any problems of any kind for years and years and years. You continue to make presumptions on nutritional health based on hypothesis and based upon theory. The articles you post all go back to one carbo-phobic or another. It is important to understand that all of these ideas are merely hypothesis and theory at the moment. No clinical trials exist which prove the theory. As I have noted before, there are serious consequences in transitioning all the cats in the world over to a low carb food. Renal failure is a very common disease and moving all cats over to a low carb diet necessarily means that protein consumption must increase dramatically. Along with protein consumption you will almost always have increased levels of phosphorus in the diet. Increasing phosphorus in the general population of cats that has already clearly illustrated a significant propensity to renal failure would be extremely risky. Let me know when you get your crystal ball up an running and can tell me which cat will be the victim of renal failure and which one won't Further there is the issue of hyperthyroidism in cats. Increased protein levels and further reduction of carbs can also increase the incidence of hyperthyroidism in cats. Before you leap on the Carbo-Phobic bandwagon - it's a good idea to think about the consequences. Not all of which are positive. Steve Crane the Hill's Pet Food company representative and "marketing intelligence" man wrote: <snip tpical attempt to manipulate people into thinking phosphorus causes renal failure> Steve, You repeat ad nauseum the same lame company dictated Hill's employee mantra over and over. Show me a peer reviewed published study that shows phosphorus causes renal failure in healthy cats. Show me a study that shows that switching from a dry to canned food increases the risk of renal failure in healthy cats. *HEALTHY* CATS, STEVE. *HEALTHY* cats. *HEALTHY* cats. I'm repeating this several times since you always have this inexplicable reading comprehension problem when it comes to this subject and always fail to answer the question directly, but you never fail to respond with information pertinent to cats that already have renal failure. You can't even be minimally honest in that regard. I have asked you this before and you have never been able to provide anything. Don't start with your usual deceptive sh.t you pull where you go on and on about phosphorus and cats that already have kidney failure. That's not what we're talking about here. *HEALTHY* cats. There is NO evidence that excessive phosphorus cause renal failure and it even says so in SACN. NONE. ZERO. In fact, there is no rule about what "excessive" is other than what Hill's and AAFCO has dictated are "acceptable" levels. I'm not going to bank my pet's health on what a commercial enterprise dictates. Cats are carnivores and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that a meat diet does not have low levels of phosphorus. It does not take a rocket scientist to understand that a carnivore should not be eating mountains of grains it has not evolved or is meant to eat. You can't and won't admit (and neither will your company because it would cost them a lot of profits) that the likely cause of renal failure is a lifetime of chronic dehydration caused by a species innappropriate diet of dry food. You said it yourself, it's made for *convenience.* You will go ahead and repeat your chronic corporate misinformation that is so harmful to cats until the day you die. Nobody can stop you, and you're doing what you're paid to do. It's a real shame. Hopefully, intelligent people have and will continue to see through your lies, deceptions and agenda and learn about what an appropriate diet for cats is despite your efforts otherwise. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Sigh, As usual, you want to switch the issue. Please find ANYWHERE where I EVER said excess phosphorus CAUSES renal failure. You keep repeating this mantra as if by repeating it you will make it true. I have NEVER said that excess phos CAUSES renal failure. NEVER. Now if you get off your attempt to sideline the issue, perhaps you can try thinking of the larger cat population. Th reality is that renal failure is indeed a very serious an common killer of cats. That is not debateable and I don't think even you would suggest this is not true. What I have repeatedly noted is that we don't have a method of determining which cat will succumb to renal failure. You don't have a crystal ball which tells you which cat is the next victim. Until you can locate that crystal ball it is only prudent to avoid uneccessary risks. It's just common sense. Not all cats will succumb to DDT poisoning either, but we're not stupid enough to risk exposure to the general population of cats. Your choice is to ignore REAL disease and concentrate on hypothetical and totally unproven hypothesis around carbohydrates. That's just monumentally silly. It's very much like standing in the middle of a LA freeway at rush hour, while the cars are driving by at 70 mph. It's a clear blue sky and you elect to worry about being struck by lightening instead being struck by a car. It is exactly the same silly decision. Renal disease is real, proven and factual. The allegations made by the carbo-phobics are NOT real, merely hypothesis and theory. Removing carbohydrates necessarily increasae protein which almost always means increased phos. Additionally increased protein also increase the iodine and selenium levels in the overall diet. Adding these to the diet increase risk of succumbing to undetected renal failure and hyperthyroidism in cats. Steve wrote: >It's very much like standing in the > middle of a LA freeway at rush hour, while the cars are driving by at > 70 mph. It's a clear blue sky and you elect to worry about being struck > by lightening instead being struck by a car. Informative *and* entertaining. Whodathunk? ;-) -Sharon > Sigh, > As usual, you want to switch the issue. Please find ANYWHERE where I > EVER said excess phosphorus CAUSES renal failure. You keep repeating > this mantra as if by repeating it you will make it true. I have NEVER > said that excess phos CAUSES renal failure. NEVER. >The reality is that renal > failure is indeed a very serious an common killer of cats. ................once again I'll mention that since some cat vax are cultured on kidney cells from another mammal (hamster?), that this may cause the cat to make antibodies to their own kidneys. This initial research was almost 2 years ago. Has nothing to do with feeding cats protein. > Removing carbohydrates necessarily increasae protein which almost > always means increased phos. Additionally increased protein also > increase the iodine and selenium levels in the overall diet. Adding > these to the diet increase risk of succumbing to undetected renal > failure and hyperthyroidism in cats. .......You want to tell me how this is essentially different than excess phosphorus causes renal disease? Not the same words, but if you read between the lines.......... buglady take out the dog before replying Very simple - Nowhere does this say excess phos CAUSES renal failure. What it very clearly says is that cats with undetected renal failure who are exposed to excess phos will die much more quickly. It is the same thing I have said for years. Nothing new, and entirely backed up in the literature. Since you cannot tell me which cat will be the next victim it is just foolish to put any cat at risk by feeding excessive levels of phosphorus. When you can tell me that cat A, B, D, and G will not be the next victim of renal failure, then I will be happy to feed those cats a high phos diet. Until then you are playing Russian Roulette. Facts: 1. Renal failure is one of the primary disease killers of cats. #2 2. We can NOT determine which cats will be the victims until it is too late, 70% of renal function gone and the cat on an uninteruptable spiral to death. 3. Excess phos in any diet fed to a cat with marginal renal function and undetected renal failure will cut that cats life in half. 4. There is NO good news about having high levels of phosphorus in the diet. Not a single person anywhere, not even among the internet fantasy set, does anyone suggest having high levels of phos is a "good" thing. So explain to me why anyone who cannot predict which cat will die of renal failure, would deliberately choose to play Russian Roulette by feeding a high phosphorus diet when there is not one positive thing about doing so? > The second reality is that about a gazillion cats have been fed a DRY > urinary food of some kind with great success, and without any problems > of any kind for years and years and years. ..........really? a gazillion? > You continue to make presumptions on nutritional health based on > hypothesis and based upon theory. The articles you post all go back to > one carbo-phobic or another. It is important to understand that all of > these ideas are merely hypothesis and theory at the moment. .............geez Steve, it's no hypothesis that cats are obligate carnivores. They have no nutritional or physiological need for carbs. No clinical > trials exist which prove the theory. ........haha! > Further there is the issue of hyperthyroidism in cats. Increased > protein levels and further reduction of carbs can also increase the > incidence of hyperthyroidism in cats. .......oh really? I'll need a cite for that one. There is some evidence that poptop cans - those cans coated with plastic - may contribute to an increase in HT due to leaked estrogen mimics, but never heard this *theory* about protein and HT. buglady take out the dog before replying Buglady, This is an issue I have known about for a long long time. Now that the patents have been published it is no longer necessary to keep the information private. If you have the ability to do a patent search you can find this data released publicly in late December 2004. The clinical trials are Grade 1 evidence based medicine and will soon be published. Increased levels of iodine and selenium are found in protein. Increasing protein will increase the levels of both of these minerals. Taking anything to extreme is a poor choice. Taking carbophobia to the extreme is a bad choice. Especially since the positive effects claimed are mere hypothesis and theory, without a single clinical trial to prove the theory correct. In opposition to this there is solid Grade 1 Evidence based medicine clinical trials on phos and renal failure. Remember there is no "evidence" that pop top cans are implicated. The "evidence" of that exists in merely looking at a very large population and finding similarities between one group and another. While that is a good indicator and good place to start, there are no clinical trials proving pop top cans CAUSE hyperthyroidism. That kind of "evidence" is much like what follows: My father ate green peas as a child. He died of colon cancer at age 37, therefore green peas cause colon cancer. While the first two statements are true, they do not make the last statement true. The same methodology was used in the pop top can / plastic liner hypothesis on HT in cats. It is possible that poorly cured plastic liners in cans may contribute to the issue, but it is a long way from being proven. > Buglady, > This is an issue I have known about for a long long time. Now > that the patents have been published it is no longer necessary to keep > the information private. If you have the ability to do a patent search > you can find this data released publicly in late December 2004. .......can't find it. Who is listed as the inventor on these patents - Hills, Science Diet or Colgate-Palmolive? The > clinical trials are Grade 1 evidence based medicine and will soon be > published. Increased levels of iodine and selenium are found in > protein. .......oh brother, now protein's the bad guy for HT too. Selenium is also found in whole grains and wheat germ. A very general chart I found lists muscle meat and cereals as equal in selenium. Organ meats are highest, which is why they should only comprise a small portion of the diet. Well, I'll be interested to see what they actually fed. Doubtless it's some new Hills diet that claims to lower the risk of HT. If they fed it to cats compared with other Hills diets, it's useless information for me. Claims from Grade one Evidence should still be restricted to the parameters of the study. Human medicine is more careful these days in their claims from studies. They were caught short with all their aspirin is good for the heart claims when it was revealed they only studied men. >Taking anything to extreme is a poor choice. ..............agreed, including pet food manufacturers trying to prove protein is bad for an obligate carnivore like the cat. > Remember there is no "evidence" that pop top cans are implicated. ........;yes,yes,yes, it's an epidemiological study, not a clinical trial. buglady take out the dog before replying |
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