Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / January 2005

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there is no
treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care."
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

----- Original Message -----
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drvonh@mindspring.com
To: <dm@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals,
especially animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there is no
treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

                 From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)

            The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

             I have studied canine behavior and dog training
             for years. I have a huge library that covers
             every system of training.

             The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End
             Training Method is by far the most scientific,
             the most advanced, the kindest, the quickest
             and the most effective training method yet
             discovered.

             It is not an assortment of training tips and
             tricks; it is a logically consistent system.
             Every behavior problem and every obedience
             skill is treated in the same logically
             consistent manner.

             Please study his manual carefully. Please
             endeavor to understand the basis of his system
             and please follow his directions exactly. His
             manual is a masterpiece. It is dense with
             theory, with explanation, with detailed
             descriptions about why behavior problems occur
             and how their solution should be approached.

             One should not pick and choose from among his
             methods based upon what you personally like or
             dislike. His is not a bag of tricks but a complete
             and integrated system for not only training a dog
             but for raising a loving companion.

             When I once said to Jerry that his system
             creates for you the dog of your dreams, his
             response was that it produces for your dog the
             owner of his dreams.

             You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are
             gentle with your dog then he will be gentle
             with you, if you praise your dog every time he
             looks at you, then you will become the center
             of your dogs world, if you use Jerry's sound
             distraction with praise, then it takes
             just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train
             your dog to not misbehave (even in your
             absence) (Just 15 seconds this morning to train
             my 10 week old puppy to lie quietly and let me
             clip his nails).

             Using Jerry's scientific method (sound
             distraction / praise / alteration / variation)
             it takes just minutes to train you dog to
             respond to your commands.

             What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week
             old puppy running as fast has his wobbly little
             legs would carry him in response to my recall
             command-and he comes running every time I call
             no matter where we are or what he is doing.

             At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains
             upon his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold
             exercises and his Family Pack Leadership
             exercises.

            Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog,
            if you scream at him, if you intimidate him, if
            you hurt him, if you force him then his natural
            response is to oppose you.

            Is Jerry a nut?

           It doesn't make any difference to me whether he
           is or not. It is a logical fallacy to judge a
           person's ideas based upon their personality. As
           far as dogs are concerned, Jerry wears his heart
           upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when he
           hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding
           or hurting dogs.

           More than that, he knows  that force is not
           effective and that it will certainly  lead to
           behavior problems; sometime problems so severe
           that people put their dogs down because of those
           problems.

          I believe that it is natural for humans to want to
          control their dog by force. Jerry knows this too.
          We have all been at our wits' end, haven't we?

          Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In
          scientific literature it is referred to
          allelomimetic behavior. Dogs respond in like kind
          to force; they respond in like kind to praise.

         Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
         wants most-your kind attention. Give him your
         praise. You will be astonished at how your dog 's
         anxiety will dissipate and how their behavior
         problems will dissipate along with their anxiety.

         Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
         Training Method as a scientific principle just as
         you would the law of gravity and you will have
         astounding success.

         Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

         If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a
         sweet little Magwai; if you don't you will surely
         get a little gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?).
         --Larry

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<drv...@mindspring.com>

To: <pdd-aspy...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: How does diagnosis shape treatment?

How does diagnosis shape treatment?

Nearly every week I have a visit from Jerry Howe, who
publicizes himself as The Puppy Wizard. Jerry is a
master at behavioral modification of dogs.

His fundamental bedrock is the work Pavlov's last student,
the late Sam Corson, Ph.D., did at the U of Ohio (at Oxford,O).

Sam always pointed out if the dog stopped working for
you in the lab, Pavlov and he always took the dog away
from the lab, and put him in a loving home and gave him
TLC for a couple of months, and then started, very carefully,
over again.

Jerry believes that reward and constraint focused training
is immoral. I've watched him in one short session calm
impossible dogs, just about to be murdered (oops "put to
sleep") because of their "incorrigibly" violent behavior.

Sam was one of the first people to apply amphetamine to
hyperactivity (he searched the Middle West for hyperactive
dogs); but he never lost sight of the fundamental reality that
a dog is not a human, but does respond, doggily, to dog love.

You might be surprised to go to B. F. Skinner's "Cumulative
Record" and read the essay by Breland and Breland, "The
Misbehavior of Organisms".

Animals cannot be successfully trained unless the
trainer attends to the evolutionary history, the individual's
developmental history, and the environmental niche of
the animal being trained.

Yep, right there in Skinner's last and summary book.
Even with behavior mod, you must know the animal.

<snip>

       Dogs or little boys, you have to know the individual
       history, and the nature of he disorder.

       Dr. Von

       PS if you are interested in dogs, then take a look at
       Jerry's work, ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net

HERE'S HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual STUDENTS all over
the Whole Wild World DO IT EFFECTIVELY
NEARLY INSTANTLY GENTLY and FOR FREE,
to boot:

       "ziggy" <yggiz@gmx.net> wrote in message
       news:98c6b5cb.0301261115.27651ebf@posting.google.com...
       > "Jerry Howe" <jhowe2@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
       news:<oDZX9.2851$zt5.98@news.bellsouth.net>...

       > > HOWEDY People,

       > Well, thanks for taking the time to reply as you
       > kindly did. Yeah, ok, I think I got to hand it to you
       > lol So it's back to the manual for a while and I'll
       > let you know how we get on! I'm still eating my
       > humble pie so excuse crumbs ~;0)

       > I really didn't think the rewarding bad behaviour
       > had a chance in hell but you have proved me wrong......

       > He was blanking me like crazy the
       > other day, I lost my rag (Got the flu so on a short
       > leash myself lol) Gave it a 'Good boy, yeah you
       > really are!' and he did what I'd been asking him to
       > do for 5 mins straight away lol Doh!! Tickles me now
       > when he's up to no good and I say Good Boy, he turns
       > straight back to my sweety and he doesn't even know
       > it! It's applied physchology all the way with Dobies
       > in particular and I know it's often better to turn a
       > blind eye rather than confront at that particular
       > time, I've always distracted rather than corrected
       > at this young age but I'm going your way!!

       > Thanks all
       > ziggy
       > This humble pie tastes nice actually ~;0)
       > ziggy

       INTRO TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING MANUAL
            George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D. F.R.S.H.

Several years ago one of my old students telephoned
to me and asked me what I knew about Doggie Do
Right, a device to cause your neighbor's dog to stop
barking.

I had not heard of the device, nor its inventor, Jerry
Howe, but I telephoned, read his website, and told
my graduate that I thought the device was worth a
trial - indeed I shut up the dogs in my neighborhood
by turning on Jerry's supersonic device.

After all we all know that dogs respond to whistles
humans cannot hear, so why not respond to "attaboy"
sounds which humans cannot hear.

My student lived far from my Florida homestead, so
he tried it on the three incredibly savage, hyperactive
and noisy dogs who lived behind a tall fence just 3 feet
back of his bedroom.

Hot rats! The device worked,

Andy got his sleep and I didn't think much of the
matter again.

A few months ago I had new neighbors on each
side of my house, four of them, all with noisy
unshuttupable dogs. Argh!

So I foned Andrew in Virgina, received the intelligence
that his neighbors dogs were still quiet, and then I foned
Jerry Howe, the inventor of Doggie Do Right, who came
to visit me.

Merlin walked into my office.

Jerry is a slender fellow with a belly button lenghth grey
beard tapering down his chest. I liked him immediately,
and I applied his instrument to the neighborhood again
which again became silent.

It occured to me that if this ultrasonic field worked with
dogs that we ought at least to ask the question, what
happens to humans in range of the device???

I asked Jerry to give me a list of customers and began
inquiring among them. One thing became immediately
evident. The Doggie Do Right not only shuts up your
neighbors' dogs, it calms and modifies your husband's behavior.

Holey Moley, Captain Marvel, this device has major potential.

In the meantime Jerry gave me a copy of his Wits End
Dog Training Manual. I was delighted. He also introduced
me to the world of professional dog trainers some of whom
even have Ph.D.s in psychology.

This was not such a delight as it appeared that none
of these luminaries had actually read Skinner, Lazarus
or other fountains of wisdom in psychology. Indeed, it
seemed as though they knew very little about the laws
of behavior at all!

Punishment and confrontation seemed to be their
major stock in trade.

Well, if you go to my website, www.drbiofeedback.com
you can read of the career of Sam Corson, I.P. Pavlov's
last student.

Sam demonstrated that rehabilitation of hyperactive
dogs can easily and readily be done using TLC, tender
loving care is at the root of the scientific management
of doggies.

Pavlov told us so 100 years ago.

So what are these degreed morons doing punishing
dogs, and shouting "NO" into their doggie faces? If
you pick up B.F.Skinner's last book, CUMULATIVE
RECORD, included in it is an essay by Keller Breland
and Maryann Breland entitled THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS.

Skinner deliberately included his students' chapter
to emphasize that you cannot manage the behavior
of animals unless you take into consideration 1. the
animal's evolutionary niche (who is the animal?);
2. the animal's personal history (who is the animal?)
and 3, the instinctive repetoire of the animal (who is
the animal?) and 4. the personality of the animal (who
is the animal?).

The Brelands moved far from the white rat. "Thirty-eight
species, totaling over 6,000 individual animals, have been
conditioned, and we have dared to tackle such unlikely
subjects as reindeer, cockatoos, raccoons, porpoises,
and whales. "

Jerry Howe spends most of his times with dogs, but
he has learned Pavlov's lesson well. Dogs are individuals,
they are individual DOGS, and they respond most directly
and immediately to love and tender loving care.

Read with pleasure, and then go love your dog.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
Who's Who Honoree since 1983

       "Amanda@DCFWatch.com" wrote inmessage
       > ..
       > > > This makes me wonder.  If the dog taught himself
       > > > to get the kid off of it by biting, why can't
       > > > you teach it another method.  When my dog nipped
       > > > to protect my kids, i taught her with
       > > > distraction and praise.
       > >
       > > What did you teach her to do instead of nipping?
       >
       > First we used distraction and praise to teach her
       > biting is not ok.  2 weeks ago we had to seperate
       > her from the puppy in order to feed them.
       >
       >  She would run over, bite him then take his food.
       >  If he licked the carpet where juice was spilled he
       > got bitten.  just examples.  Then during meals, when
       > she moved toward him we (me, my husband, jerry
       > and his wife) used sound distraction and praise.

       > We trained her to stay away from him.  Then we
       > let them get close, when she looked like she was
       > thinking of biting (snap) good girl! good dog... and
       > she would let him close.   since he advanced to
       > eating her food she began laying down and allowing
       > him tot ake over.  so we taught her to find his food
       > and eat his.

       > Just doing this has taught her to share.  If he's too
       > roudy and the kids aren't inviting.. she will find
       > her rope and give it to him.  if he takes her kong,
       > she does and finds his and either gets him
       > to take his own king or simply lets him have his.
       > we did this by feeding her as much as she wanted,
       > giving her plenty of toys. we taught her there is
       > always more.. we broke that instinct of self
       > preservation.  now they share from the same
       > bowl.  not even a growl.
       >
       > then when she growled because my friends kid went
       > near her while she was nursing, we put her on lead
       > just long enough to come 1 foot from the kid.  just
       > in case.  we put the kid on the floor in her mum's
       > lap with the puppy and used distraction and praise
       > if she seemed upset. then when she went near the kid
       > in a fashion like she was going to protect
       > something.. the kids, their food what have you.. we
       > used praise and distraction.  then it progressed to
       > the other day.. the kid was smacking kelly in the
       > face.  pummeling beyond all belief she has taken
       > from my own kids.. like if the 23 lb 19 month old
       > goes to stand on her, kelly will brace herself and
       > hold still so the baby doesn't fall off. when the
       > baby stands on her we distract the baby and praise
       > kelly for waiting.  so anyway.. she's being smacked
       > in the face by the same kid who likes to try and dig
       > eyeballs out. kelly snarled her lip.. no sound..
       > just showed her teeth... sound and praise! and she
       > broke her thought and came over to me.  when the
       > puppy was biting her so hard she cried (pits
       > dont cry easily) we used sound and praise when she
       > went to defend herself.  then we would go to him and
       > distract him off.  in less than a week she learned
       > to either a. drag him to me or my husband still
       > attached and shaking her ear/neck/leg or b. distract
       > him herself.

       > she sees us use distraction and gentle
       > measures and she does them too.  when he's trying to
       > dig a hole she engages him in play.  when the
       > kid is going somewhere she shouldn't.. kelly will
       > run over to her.. and seperate the kid from say the
       > kitchen and guide her in another direction.  when
       > the puppy is biting something he shouldn't.. she
       > finds a kong and offers him the appropriate chewing
       > method.
       >
       > Dogs are smart.  She only knew to nip or growl or
       > bite.  We taught her gentle ways and she learned
       > them.  Dogs don't want to bite kids or puppies or
       > people.. but they want results.  if they know the
       > food will never run out.. why should they bite over
       > food?  if they know someone else will distract a
       > biting pup why would she bite him? all she has to
       > do is find me and i will do it...  why does she need
       > to nip the lil kid again?  she knows i will stop the
       > kid from hurting her.  yes it still requires alot of
       > supervision, because this kid does in fact hurt her
       > alot and she is not part of our pack.  but that is
       > part of my responsibility as well.    Jerry calls it
       > allomimetic behaviour.. i think its plain logic. the
       > dog won't bite if it knows a whimper or cry
       > will attract help.  but if no one else is in
       > control... as we were not two weeks ago.. the dog
       > will take matters into its own hands.
       >
       > And for Donna who asked how safe setting up an
       > incident is?
       >
       > it is very safe.  If you know the dog will bite the
       > kid if it goes near its food.. you put the dog on
       > lead and have someone hold the lead securely.  MAKE
       > SURE the lead will not reach say.. 1.5 feet away
       > from the food dish.  then let the kid go near the
       > food.  the dog couldn't reach if it tried,
       > and if it did you are right there to priase
       > distract.  It is much more difficult in the OP's
       > situation since the kid is close enough to bite.
       > i'll let jerry elaborate on that. and i wouldn't try
       > that without his advice.  but if you know
       > your dog likes to lunge through the front door at
       > the mailman.. put the dog on lead and open the door
       > and use praise/distraction.. the dog won't go
       > anywhere, but you can set it up to stop the thought.

       >  it's really a common sense thing.

       >  i knew i needed to set up a situation and knew i
       > couldn't risk a bite.. so i used a freaking leash that
       > wasn't long enough to reach the lil kid.  voila.  by the
       > time the dog realized it wanted to do something
       > bad.. it forgot it was on lead... and you
       > distract/praise and break the behaviour before the
       > dog is mid lunge at the end of the leash.
       >
       > Amanda
       > Whose vicious, aggressive, hopeless pit bull who
       > should be watched carefully walked by a barking dog
       > who was off lead as it growled at me and heeled
       > immediately to "protect" but never used more than 1
       > foot of the lead and didn't bark or growl back.

       ===============================

Discipline - The "NO!" Command - HOWE Dogs And
Children Learn To Tell You "NO!" And HOWE COME
They RUN HOWET On You

 > -----Original Message-----
 > From: Amanda [mailto:amanda@dcfwatch.com]
 > Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:14 PM
 > Subject: Re: Discipline

 > On Tuesday 14 January 2003 20:47, T__ wrote:

 > funny you bring this up...  i met the most wonderful
 > couple.. man and wife.. he's a dog trainer.. all his life
 > who uses a technique that is ONLY praise and distraction
 > with some family pack exercises.
 >
 >They spent the day with us sunday helping me on my
 > two pits... one is a protective/aggressive 20 month old
 > female who is my bubby :) and our 7 week male pup.
 > anyway.. not only did i nip any and all aggression issues
 > in mere minutes...he and his wife helped me with my kids.
 >
 >  I was and always have been a spanker.
 >
 > It is all i knew how.. i never, ever wanted to be..
 > but i was.  my house/kids were out of control..
 > i was always stressed.
 >
 >  Since he and his wife came down sunday we've
 > had a HUGE change... for the first time the kids
 > didn't destroy my house before i woke up... my
 > 3yo was in my bed coloring waiting for us to wake
 > up...  this is the first time she ever used paper
 > :) she usually does walls, furniture.
 >
 > Anyway..  he told me to use sound/praise.. and it works.
 >
 > I have a 6 yo, 3.5 yo who is psycho child :) and a very
 > bad-a$$ 19 month old. They are all smarter than I am and
 > know it :)  There has not been a temper tantrum in two
 > days in my house.
 >
 > You guys have no idea how great this is.
 >
 >  But best of all.. this method does NOT use the evil eye
 > or a tone of that is in any way short of absolute praise..
 > no shouting.. not even a quiet Chloe!.. nada.. ONLY
 > praise.
 >
 >  They even taught my kids not to take candy unless
 > i say so.. (my oldest will literally let you pierce her
 > ears for candy..
 >
 > it's been done twice and i keep taking em out) and
 > now the bag of blow pops i forget on the floor in my
 > closet (where we keep the girl's dressed) is still there
 > and NO ONE has eaten one! My 3 yo is even helping
 > me pick up the house.. the baby took my lingerie chest
 > apart.. and she cleaned it up!  first time!
 >
 > They don't even go out the open door without my
 > offering it! they helped me sort laundry.. clean the
 > living room... im amazed. The 3 yo got some yogurt
 > from the fridge andwalked to our kitchen table, sat
 > down and ate it.. she REFUSES to sit at the table
 > and eat!
 >
 > We also taught them and the dogs to sit pretty so
 > when they're climbing on my couch.. i go Can you
 > show me how you sit pretty??  and they ALL hop
 > down and show me to sit pretty with their feet NOT
 > on the cofee table.. hands friggin folded.. i almost
 > fell over..
 >
 > thanks for reminding me to share my joy!
 >
 > I'm not a spanker! I don't even yell! lol!
 >
 > here i picked names that shout well and i don't need em!!!
 >
 > > how old is your bub amanda?  waht's the bub doing?/
 /,
 > > Hello again ladies,
 > > Amanda, I love your signature. I also do not spank my
 > > daughter, however, she is at an age where she really is
 > > asserting her independence.
 >
 > > Can anyone help with ideas of what I can do? Blessings,
 > > T.

Subject: Re Discipline.  Also, SLEEP!
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:38:46 -0500
From: Amanda <amanda@dcfwatch.com>

 >  Can you go into this a little more?  How did they
 >  accomplish all  this in one day?

My learning is progressive.  I email or call him with
questions.  But, i'm getting most of it myself.  Something
clicked.

How would we do it with our families?

that is kind of broad..  ask me specifics... or i'd still be
typing when your kids are in college ;)

 > I really have problems controlling my temper when I am
 > already stressed out and then C__ is hurting me:

Me too.. i was abused... my mom was psycho... and i had
problems with anger.. i took it personally when my 6 yr old
wouldn't clean her room... i would sometimes cry is was so
strung out.. i didn't wanna spank but i didn't know what to do
instead.. so i spanked.. and then spanking didn't work.. and
then my dogs went nuts and i called this trainer and he showed
me how to do it.

pulling my hair, scratching me, slapping me, etc.

Mine hit me on purpose alot.. scratching.. climbing on me..
hurting me and then laughing.

Now as I post.. please don't think im trying to be a know it
all.. i simply wanna relay what i have learned...  as it is
i've only been spank free for a week now and yell free for two
days (my neighbors two streets over are happy :)

 Children, dogs, people.. they do thinks wrong because it
 ellicits your ultimate attention.  Does your 3 year old enjoy
fingerpainting on walls? no... do they enjoy fighting the minute
you pick up the phone??  No.

 They *know* they can command your attention.. and that's
 what they
want. same reason your dogs fight.. they think it is
controlling you.

Your kids want you watching their every move.. making sure
they eat.. dont talk to strangers.. because it means you are
watching THEM and not them watching you as it should be.  they
should stay within x feet of you.. because they like mom and
she's cool and she keeps em safe... they shouldn't run and
expect you to chase them.. because you won't always be there
to chase them... that's how kids die or get lost.

When they learn to follow you.. it's all good.

Now, take my 19 mo old.  She had this habit of sipping 4 oz
from her bottle and demanding more.  if i didn't refill it..
she threw a hgue fit.  Now she hands me her bottle and says
more.. and i tickle her... then i pick up her bottle and
pretend im drinking it.. i offer her a drink and snatch it
back saying MY Baba!!  She wants that bottle.. so she takes it
and drinks it.. even tho i didn't refill it.  we had a huge
problem with them taking things they cant have and when i
wanted it they ran...  now i give the baby (19mo) my finger..
and she grabs it.. and i wiggle and shout My finger!  that's
mine! Gimme it back.. playfully.. and she resists.. and i go
"Ooh.. can i have it please?" and she gives it to me and i
gleefully say Thank you! and she says you're welcome.. and i
give her the finger back... then i hand her say a lighter...
and we wrestle for a minute.. and i say... can i have that???
and she gives it over etc.  Of course sometimes she'll have a
cool! book! and ill ask can i have that.. and shell say No.
and i say that's ok!  and tickle her or snap my fingers and
say good girl naya.. good job.. then ill start my game again
and wrestle and try to take it gently... then.. can i have
that??? she gives it over.  this works with everything now.

 > Or when he's ripping up my homework or something like
 > that.

Yea... with the dog training you hide nothing.. no forced
control.  you set the dog up for fail.. so you can distract
and praise and erase the thought.. same with the kids.  Put
some unimportant paper all over.. when he goes to touch it..
make a sound and distract him.. then good boy, that's a nice
baby!... then repeat.. the minute he goes for the paper and
breaks the thgouth you throw him in the air and praise like
mad!

 > How would I apply this in those situations?  Also, what do
 > you do in 'danger' situations (until you're close enough
 > to distract them) - climbing on things, sticking metal
 > objects into electrical outlets, trying to get into the
 > oven, etc.?

Use your judgement.. if you have the distance/time to
distract... do it.. if you don't... pick them up and away..
but act like it's to throw em in the air.. so they don't know
youre forcing control by phsycially removing them... cuz when
you force control.. with the come command when you want your
dog away from something... or when you pull a dirty shoe from
your baby's mouth.. you put value on it.

Like when your kid puts a penny in its mouth.. youll try to
pry its mouth open to get it... and he'll clamp right down..
you gave that penny VALUE!  it's not just a piece of crap..
mom WANTS IT!

so.. instead you make a game.. say you want em to smit it
out... walk somewhere else... attract their attention.. be
kinda sneaky... odds are the thing in their mought will get
annoying and they'll spit it out when they walk toward you...
if all else fails.. pry it outta their smiling jaws... snatch
em up away from falling down...  but only when you have to..
then work realy hard to overcome that forced control.

Also don't make a big deal about it.. or else theyll learn not
only to command your attention, but also mom will always catch
me so she is watching me.. not me watching her.

 > I never realized how spirited C__ was until I started
 >  tending other kids.

those are my kids.  I have had social workers with their
degrees in child development stop offering me services cuz
they couldn't handle my kids... my friends call mine the
obstinate kids.

 > They're docile kittens compared to C__!  This brings up
 > another question - what do you do when YOUR child is the
 > bully?

if you catch it before it happens.. loud sound.. big
distraction and PRAISE. if you catch it afterward... distract
and say oh my goodness! and pay attention to the other kid...
he wont get the attention... then explain how that hurts.
odds are your kid won't hurt another kid if he truly
understands its not nice.

 > C__ is always beating the other boy over the head when he
 > comes over.
 > We don't hit in anger in our family

i have.. everyone does in my family... i did it a few times
over 4 years... but that is because i didn't know how not to.
i know now.. and i wanna tell everyone i can.. so someone else
doesn't spank their kids due to a lack of knowledge.

 > (we do it playfully sometimes, so we are curtailing that
 > in case it is giving him ideas)

my kids, 6yo, 3yo and 19 month old, favorite game is chasing
around the house (all 4 of us) with wooden spools yelling at
the top of our lungs "I'm gonna beat your a$$.. HA HA HA... no
IM gonna beat YOUR a$$  MU HA HA HA"  my neighbors prolly
think im nuts.. but the kids love it dog even plays too

 > but I admit that after I have been trying to get him to go
 > to sleep for 45 minutes, I  get a little rough sometimes.
 > It's really frustrating.  He'll be dead tired - eyes
 > bright red, fussy, eyes almost closing every 5 seconds.

It gets worse... they all do it around that time.. they don't
want to sleep.. andyou know what?  they don't grow out of it
until they're parents :)  it's one of those times you have to
use your patience and keep distracting and praising.

 > So I'll take him into the bedroom, and lay down to nurse
 > him.  He'll nurse for about 5 seconds and then jump up and
 > run to the window and start bending the blinds.

he wants you upset.. he wants your undivided attention.  you
have to refuse it.. no evil eye.. no "conner" quiet or not..
no anger.. complete nonchalance.. they have to have a total
complete entire lack fo negative attention.. and all they'll
be able to do is sit back and enjoy the positive!

One shout.. one name call.. one No! and it takes awhile to
work up to the positive only.

 >  So I gently pick him up and lay him back down.

try not to.. but if you have to ok

  > And we repeat the process over 10000 times.

when he goes to sit up.. when yous see the thought on his
face.. distract with sound and follow with praise or a song or
giggle.

  > Then I get frustrated and lay him down less gently.

better than my method of plop em in the crib and let em cry.
No anger.. stay calm.. meditate, pray.. breath..  try to
remember they will not always be this small.. and youll never,
ever for anything get it back. it's what im using

  > That makes him cry, which is the last straw that
  > FINALLY gets him to nurse to sleep.

He got you riled up.. what he wanted.. time to sleep.

 > Writing it out, I thought of something.  He must have a
 > lot of excess tension he needs to release before sleeping,
 > and finally crying releases it for him.

 no way... crying isn't a release.. sometimes.. maybe for
 some people.. crying is frustration, pain, hunger,
 sadness... sometimes joy.. sometimes tension.. but not
 because of his life.. because he's insecure... their dealing
 with negative and positive.. and thats what makes em
 insecure.

 > Any good ways to do this that don't involve crying?

distraction and praise.. if all else fails get up and dance..
fast for day.. slow rocking at night.

 > Turning on soft music and swaying in the sling used to
 > work for us, but now he either grabs at everything he can
 > reach or bends over backwards until he's hanging upside
 > down.

cuzhe knows what you're doing.  hold him instead.. or sit him
in your lap on the bed and rock

becuase it is forced control.

Amanda

fill

they

time

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           BIOSOUND Scientific
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           1611 24th St Orlando, FL 32805
           Phone: 1-407-425-5092

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