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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / March 2005Kidney problems in older dog
I have a 10-11 year old male Lab. Prior to minor surgery, the vet did some blood tests, which show elevated levels of "Bun" (don't know what that means0 and "Creatinine." The surgery has been postposed, possibly forever. Normal range for "Bun" is 7 -0 27; the dog's is 40. Normal range for Creatinine is 0.4 to 1.8; my dog's is 2.5. The vet says this indicates a breakdown in the dog's kidney function, not unusual in an older dog. The dog is otherwise in pretty good shape, it appears. She recommends immediately changing his diet, to a low protein diet, and suggested KD dog food. Has anyone had a similar problem with a dog? What did you do? Are there any alternative commercial dog foods that I might use, or if I must prepare foods myself, what recommendations do you have? All help is appreciated. -- Judy Hi! firstly were other tests such as a urine specific gravity done to confirm that the elevated levels are in fact due to renal malfunction. It is not sufficient to rely solely on elevated BUN (blood urea nitrogen otherwise known as urea) and creatinine levels as these can be elevated in dehydration and other, what we call, pre renal causes. How long did you withold water for prior to the pre surgery blood testing? Did the vet recheck the levels after rehydrating with intravenous fluids for 24 hrs? What was the urine specific gravity at the time of blood testing? > I have a 10-11 year old male Lab. Prior to minor surgery, the vet did some > blood tests, which show elevated levels of "Bun" (don't know what that [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > All help is appreciated. -- Judy These are excellent questions, but at the moment, I don't have all the answers. I just returned from the vet's office with the results. I wish I had known to ask about urine specific gravity -- what is the "code" or jargon for this on the test results pages? Tests do show Bun is 40 (normal 7-27; Creatinine is 2.5 (normal is 0.4-1.8) Potassium is 6.0 (normal is 4.0-5.6) Phosphorus is 4.1 (normal is 2.1-6.3) The vet believes that a better diet (less protein, less phosphorus, vitamin supplementationl) is the way to go at this time; the dog's levels are not in the danger areas, but are indicators of what could be a future, major problem. Blood tests were done about 5 hours after a meal; probably some water intake. Your thoughts and comments will be most appreciated. -- Judy > Hi! firstly were other tests such as a urine specific gravity done to > confirm that the elevated levels are in fact due to renal malfunction. It is [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > > > All help is appreciated. -- Judy Does your dog have any clinical signs of kidney disease such as drinking or urinating more than usual? Has there been any recent weight loss or regular vomiting? I would maybe have the bloods repeated in a couple of weeks time to see if the levels are still up and have urine specific gravity (urine SG) done at same time. If the elevated levels are due to renal problems then yes the low protein diet will help reduce these levels. Elevated urea makes dogs feel nauseus hence the vomiting and for this reason it is good to try and reduce the levels. > These are excellent questions, but at the moment, I don't have all the > answers. I just returned from the vet's office with the results. I wish I [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > > > > > All help is appreciated. -- Judy No signs of his drinking more; he did have a few accidents in the house over the past few months, and also a few incidents of vomiting. I attributed them to my failure to let him out in time (the urinating). As for vomiting, I didn't attribute it to anything, I just didn't know what to think. No weight loss. He has kept steady at about 70 lbs. for several years, which is just about right for him. Yes, I will have the tests redone in about a month, and also have a urine sample taken (just try catching it from a moving dog!). Meanwhile, I have already bought low protein food, which I will supplement with low protein/low phosphorus veggies and some rice. I think I can come up with a recipe that will work. Thanks for your expertise. -- Judy ----- Original Message ----- From: Vet in NZ Newsgroups: alt.med.veterinary Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Kidney problems in older dog Does your dog have any clinical signs of kidney disease such as drinking or urinating more than usual? Has there been any recent weight loss or regular vomiting? I would maybe have the bloods repeated in a couple of weeks time to see if the levels are still up and have urine specific gravity (urine SG) done at same time. If the elevated levels are due to renal problems then yes the low protein diet will help reduce these levels. Elevated urea makes dogs feel nauseus hence the vomiting and for this reason it is good to try and reduce the levels. > These are excellent questions, but at the moment, I don't have all the > answers. I just returned from the vet's office with the results. I wishI [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > The vet believes that a better diet (less protein, less phosphorus, vitamin > supplementationl) is the way to go at this time; the dog's levels are not > in the danger areas, but are indicators of what could be a future, major [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Hi! firstly were other tests such as a urine specific gravity done to > > confirm that the elevated levels are in fact due to renal malfunction. It > is > > not sufficient to rely solely on elevated BUN (blood urea nitrogen > otherwise > > known as urea) and creatinine levels as these can be elevated in > dehydration > > and other, what we call, pre renal causes. How long did you withold water > > for prior to the pre surgery blood testing? Did the vet recheck the levels > > after rehydrating with intravenous fluids for 24 hrs? What was the urine > > specific gravity at the time of blood testing? > > > > > I have a 10-11 year old male Lab. Prior to minor surgery, the vet did > > some > > > blood tests, which show elevated levels of "Bun" (don't know what that > > > means0 and "Creatinine." The surgery has been postposed, possibly > > forever. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > not > > > unusual in an older dog. The dog is otherwise in pretty good shape, it > > > appears. She recommends immediately changing his diet, to a low protein > > > diet, and suggested KD dog food. > > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > > > All help is appreciated. -- Judy > Does your dog have any clinical signs of kidney disease such as drinking or > urinating more than usual? Has there been any recent weight loss or regular [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > > > > > > > All help is appreciated. -- Judy I wish I > had known to ask about urine specific gravity -- what is the "code" or > jargon for this on the test results pages? ........so you had a urinalysis run? .......here's a tutorial on urinalysis: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/courses_vm546/content_links/Clinical_Pathology/Lab _Tests/urinalysis.htm > Tests do show Bun is 40 (normal 7-27; > Creatinine is 2.5 (normal is 0.4-1.8) > Potassium is 6.0 (normal is 4.0-5.6) > Phosphorus is 4.1 (normal is 2.1-6.3) are indicators of what could be a future, major problem. .........I wonder if it was because dog ate recently that BUN is high? No other symptoms - drinking, lots of peeing? ..........this is a uk site so the ranges won't compare, but explanation is good: http://www.nwlabs.co.uk/testinterpindx.html > Blood tests were done about 5 hours after a meal; probably some water > intake. ...............It would be better to get a 12 hour fasting blood draw and get a first pee of the morning to take in for urinalysis. Urine should go in the fridge if you can't get it to the vet in 1/2 hour. ..........if the results are still iffy you could have another test done that checks for actual kidney damage: http://www.heska.com/erd/client_info.asp .........and if your vet uses Antech Diagnostics, the last 2 weeks of March they'll do an E.R.D. test for free - you need urine: http://www.antechdiagnostics.com/clients/antechNews/2005/feb05_01.htm Antech Diagnostics in cooperation with Heska Corporation will be introducing the new quantitative Urine Microalbumin Assay (ERD TM) as part of all urine samples sent in by your practice. Between March 14 and March 31, 2005 the test will be performed at no charge to introduce you to this valuable diagnostic tool. Beginning April 1, 2005 each time your hospital submits a urinalysis a discounted charge of $5.95 will be added for this new test. If you have any questions please feel free to contact your sales representative. buglady take out the dog before replying Thanks for the additional information...I will visit the websites you mention for more help. But no, I didn't have a urinalisis done...the early tests were done in conjuction with possible surgery to remove some cysts (these are now cancelled). So I am at the beginning of a new process. Judy > I wish I > > had known to ask about urine specific gravity -- what is the "code" or > > jargon for this on the test results pages? > > ........so you had a urinalysis run? > .......here's a tutorial on urinalysis: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/courses_vm546/content_links/Clinical_Pathology/Lab > _Tests/urinalysis.htm > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > buglady > take out the dog before replying > Thanks for the additional information...I will visit the websites you > mention for more help. But no, I didn't have a urinalisis done...the early > tests were done in conjuction with possible surgery to remove some cysts > (these are now cancelled). So I am at the beginning of a new process. ........well, they really can't verify it's kidney disease without a urinalysis in conjunction with bloodwork. I am continually surprised when vets jump on the low protein food stuff without a complete workup. buglady take out the dog before replying You're right. I will take care of it next week. Thanks. -- Judy > > Thanks for the additional information...I will visit the websites you > > mention for more help. But no, I didn't have a urinalisis done...the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > buglady > take out the dog before replying Jayebea, Renal disease in dogs is quite common. The unfortunate part of the deal is that all the tests described above and even doing a urinalysis does not catch the disease until 70+% of the kidney is already destroyed. Placing the dog on a renal diet as early as possible will double the dogs life and reduce the number of uremic events by half. (Polzin et al) The fortunate part is that properly managed dogs can live a very long time on a renal diet. Unlike cats that tend to just crash very rapidly. A more finite and effective test would be an ERD test. (early renal disease) They are prone to false positives if the animal has concurrent diabetes, crones, a severe infection, or a couple other issues. All of which need to be addressed anyway. So even if the test is positive - but not for kidney disease - you still win as you are able to diagnose other sub clinical disease issues. There is NO disadvantage to "jumping on a renal diet" as early as possible. If you determine later on that the dog does not have renal failure - there is nothing lost in the process. Thanks for your thorough response. Since writing my initial email, I have had a urine specific gravity test done. Dog's reading was 1.016. Inasmuch as the normal range for USG seems to be 1.015-1.045, he does not seem to be in an immediate danger zone right now. The normal range is quoted from other message readings and I hope it is correct. Nevertheless, I will modify his diet to decrease phosphorus as much as I reasonably can. This is not easy, I have learned. Can you tell me more about the ERD test/tests? How do it/they differ from the usual blood and urine tests? Thanks again -- Judy > Jayebea, > Renal disease in dogs is quite common. The unfortunate part of the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > possible. If you determine later on that the dog does not have renal > failure - there is nothing lost in the process. . Dog's reading was 1.016. .......that's good. > Nevertheless, I will modify his diet to decrease phosphorus as much as I > reasonably can. This is not easy, I have learned. > > Can you tell me more about the ERD test/tests? How do it/they differ from > the usual blood and urine tests? ........did you check the url I gave you from Heska, the maker of the E.R.D. test? buglady take out the dog before replying I checked out Heska, but I am ashamed to admit that as I write this email, I can't remember what I read! (I will have to read it again). However, I do recall in other posts elsewhere there were a number of writers who had opposing views on its value. Nevertheless, I will read again. Thanks. -- Judy > . Dog's reading was 1.016. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > buglady > take out the dog before replying I forgot to ask in my previous email of a few minutes ago. With reference to the USG test -- if you have this information -- if the dog's USG drops below the normal range, what does this indicate? if the dog's USG rises above the normal range, what does this indicate? I know, it will mean there is a real problem, but I don't know what to be alert for. Thanks again -- Judy > Jayebea, > Renal disease in dogs is quite common. The unfortunate part of the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > possible. If you determine later on that the dog does not have renal > failure - there is nothing lost in the process. > if the dog's USG drops below the normal range, what does this indicate? .........it means they can't concentrate the urine, which is the job of the kidneys. buglady take out the dog before replying |
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