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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / May 2005Probably mild wobblers
Saskia, my 14-month-old Dane, has had for some months a problem that manifests every couple of weeks or so as a sudden yelp followed by 30 seconds of limping on her right foreleg. X-rays revealed nothing amiss with her foot, ankle, shoulder, etc. It can happen while she's playing or while she's lying on the sofa and decides to change position. It doesn't seem to worsen with increased exercise or lessen with more rest. We just went to the orthopedist. He listened to what I had to say and read the letter from the vet, and said that my feeling that her neck is the culprit sounded on-target. He got some staff in and she was held motionless while he checked over her legs and other joints, then concentrated on her neck. He found no pain reaction or loss of flexibility, so it was on to the x-ray room. Unsedated, she was put on the table and I stood by talking to her while a tech held my indignant baby in another room. He went over the x-rays with me and it seems to be wobblers. He said the only way to be 100% sure, of course, is a CT scan or MRI, which we are welcome to have scheduled at the university any time we like, but he showed me where the channel in the two vertebrae looks somewhat narrower than the others, and one vertebra seems very slightly tilted forward. He said, though, that her vertebrae are done growing and that given the lack of progression since this appeared, the lack of compression now, and the fact that it seems to be only one movement that causes the reaction, he thinks optimism is strongly called for, and that she may well never get worse. Of course no certainty about this is possible. He did say, when I asked him about his experiences with cases this mild, that he has never personally seen a case this mild. We plan at this point on waiting for a while, at least to save up some more money, before deciding for sure whether to do the CT or MRI--what are you folks' takes on this? Poor Saskers found the whole thing very traumatic, but I realized while we were there that the only major "obstacle" between us and home, walking (we took the tram there), is the massive, dog-friendly park. So we came through the park with a brief stop for a new rope toy at the pet store we happened to pass, and she is passed out but happy now, on the sofa. Good thing she's really tired; no walk/run tomorrow--it's Queen's Day and the entire city will be one giant street fair, especially as it's the 25th anniversary of the Queen's coronation, and the parks and any open areas will be jammed with people selling things, partying, or playing music. So... thoughts, anyone? We're keeping our spirits up and remaining optimistic that what we've already seen for symptoms may be all we ever see (a yelp and 30 seconds of limping every couple of weeks)... --Katrina Darn it... nobody? I'm really concerned about my dog. I want to get as much information together as possible; usually this is not a very good prognosis, and yet sometimes dogs go on just fine.... Sigh! I've got a list for the orthopedist when I call him tomorrow, about reducing exercise and neck wraps and protein in her diet, etc., but he feels this is the congenital kind and not caused by trauma or overgrowth, so it's likely this is both relatively stable and relatively untreatable. Any opinions from anyone here? Thanks, Katrina Try this for info. http://www.chetbacon.com/wobblers.htm Sue Minocqua, WI Yamaha '00 VStar 650 (old reliable) '04 TW200 (mud = fun) Kawasaki '95 Vulcan 1500 (new friend) "Do what you want and say what you feel because those that mind, don't matter and those that matter, don't mind". ~Dr. Seuss > Try this for info. > http://www.chetbacon.com/wobblers.htm > > Sue Thank you. I have read this one and several others; they give an excellent overview of the disorder and its causes and potentiual treatments. I'm trying to do some narrowing in on my dog's own case now. Mild, congenital, not involving proprioceptive deficit, etc. I guess I was hoping some folks here had at least anecdotal experience with a case like this one. The reference is much appreciated, though. --Katrina . I guess I was hoping some folks > here had at least anecdotal experience with a case like this one. The > reference is much appreciated, though. .........check the archives at Google. ........I'd go for chiropractic, but IIRC you don't have vet chiros in the Netherlands. buglady take out the dog before replying Might she have Pano? (Panosteitis) http://www.gdca.org/healthandwelfare.htm http://www.doglogic.com/danefaqs.htm Regards <toucanldy@aol.com> wrote in message > Might she have Pano? (Panosteitis) > http://www.gdca.org/healthandwelfare.htm > http://www.doglogic.com/danefaqs.htm That was my first thought. Wonder if the vet immediately jumped on the Wobblers because it's a great dane or experience tells him/her differently? Sue Minocqua, WI Yamaha '00 VStar 650 (old reliable) '04 TW200 (mud = fun) Kawasaki '95 Vulcan 1500 (new friend) "Do what you want and say what you feel because those that mind, don't matter and those that matter, don't mind". ~Dr. Seuss That was the first thing that popped into my mind as well. It mentioned previously that x-rays were done and usually you can find something on there to suggest pano. Maybe should take a second look at them or have a second opinion. > <toucanldy@aol.com> wrote in message > Might she have Pano? (Panosteitis) > > http://www.gdca.org/healthandwelfare.htm [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > "Do what you want and say what you feel because those that mind, don't > matter and those that matter, don't mind". ~Dr. Seuss Thanks, everyone. Yes, we do have vet chiros here but the orthopedist says they aren't very good... there aren't many, either. He also feels they can be contraindicated in cases where there is a vertebral instability because many dogs have been brought back to him worse after manipulations, which in my opinion supports the idea that the chiros here aren't very good. He did volunteer that if things get worse I can try acupuncture, in case you folks are worried he's just in this for himself, and he said he would never recommend the surgery even in an extreme case because it is so rarely worth it--which, having read about it, I agree with. Months of terrible pain and often diapers for the dog, anti-inflammatories, crate rest for months, and very often unsuccessful or only partially successful... no. Pano, no. She had a complete series of leg and hip and shoulder x-rays done a few months ago, when this started. The vet went over them in some detail, and again with me, and identified one tiny spot of probable anosteitis but said it wasn't anything to concern ourselves with, wasn't in the leg affected, etc. She was hoping to find any form of "growing pains" but did not, no pano, no HOD, etc. We've been SO careful with her food and exercise levels that it didn't really surprise me. The vet had also been half expecting to find a mild elbow dysplasia, but no. So then she sent all the x-rays to an orthopedist, who went over them and said there was nothing to find, and sent them back to her with the recommendation that we see an orthopedist in person if the problems recurred. There was a six-week period of nothing, and then the incidents started again. I was sure there must be some neck involvement because once she yelped and went lame for a few seconds on that leg while trying to change position on the couch while lying on her back, and was using her neck a lot to try to shift herself around, another time it happened while she was lying on the floor and we were playing tug with me sitting over her in a chair and I jerked on the toy, and another time it happened while she was lying on her back in the park with a border terrier jumping up and down on her (she was having a grand time, and flailing her neck around pretending to savage the terrier). The orthopedist we went to was a third opinion, and had been recommended by our trainer as very good with a lot of experience, and he first went over the leg and joint x-rays thoroughly with me, also finding nothing, then did a full leg and joint exam, then started looking at her neck, did not find anything obviously wrong, and had us do the x-rays of the neck on the spot while saying he really, really hoped not to find anything there. Then he did find this problem, close to her shoulders, and showed me in great detail how things are. I have worked for vets and know he wasn't just pointing at normal stuff saying there is a problem, but it sure isn't a bad case, that's certain. He says that if we want to be more sure we need to order a CT scan or MRI and talk to the orthopedic surgeon at the University. We are unsure about this. We want the tests, but Saskia is so traumatized by going under, even when we are there (as we were for her previous x-rays and her gastropexy/spay), that she has developed a fear of vets after the x-rays (and was pretty nervous of vets' offices afetr the spay/pexi)--and if you think getting a 14-month Dane to go into a place that terrifies her while wearing a seven-month-old human on your hip is easy... well, you don't think so, how could you? She did go in for me, though, on Friday, eventually, the Good Girl. She has (at the moment anyway) a lovely quality of life, lots of affection and love and play and sleeping on furniture, with a yelp-and-limp and thus 30 secomnds or a minute of quickly-forgotten pain everey couple of weeks or longer, that we aren't sure it's worth putting her through that right now. We would in a heartbeat if it starts getting worse, though. Thanks very much for your input, Katrina Oh, and here are some pics of her from last week, just so you can see what kind of shape she's in. --Katrina http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Saskia2/SaskAndPyr.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Saskia/DogToWater.jpg http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Saskia2/SlopeDog.jpg Just had a long phone talk with the orthopedist. I wanted to hit him with some of the things suggested in online articles and by people on Danes On Line with wobblers dogs. He said in response to neck wraps that her problems are so minor in their manifestation that he feels a neck wrap would in the long run be counterproductive at this point, causing her less stability when not wearing it. I see the sense in this. He said the protein in her food is not a real issue now that she's over 14 months old, as long as it's not REALLY high. Side issue about the food: she's still transitioning to the new one, with mixed foods, but I am assuming the loose stool will go away with time. I hope this will also be true about the farting. Reducing activity: he says, and I agree, that her quality of life must not be limited by this. He thinks she is getting maybe a bit much exercise for a Great Dane but agrees with me that this is due to her age--I explained that we just let her loose in the park and she runs as much as she wants to. He said we should try to limit it a bit, increasing her sedentary time as we can, but not to be really worried about it right now. I think we'll just try to increase her walking times and make a greater effort to take her along when we go places. The problem is that, unlike most local dogs, she can't be left tied up outside a shop, even for a few minutes, so we can only take her to butchers, pet stores, the organics shop, the post office, most banks (including ours), etc. No supermarkets, department stores, etc. But she CAN go into bars and cafes and most restaurants. Playing with other dogs: only a problem with big dogs that play rough, like, unfortunately, her best friend Godfrey the 11-month-old harlequin. Running around goofing off is not a problem, but smash-hits and so forth should be avoided. Halter: good idea. So we'll work on training her with that again. She used to work in one, then at around six months we had pulling problems, worked our way through martingale collars and all the way to a Halti, and have now been doing fine for a couple of months again in a regular flat buckle collar. He does encourage getting the MRI to be absolutely certain what we're dealing with, and I agree but we don't want her undergoing unnecessary trauma, so we'll probably want to hold off a bit on the MRI--not to mention wanting to save up a little money first. (Anyone want to commission a portrait of your dog(s)? ;-) ) --Katrina >Just had a long phone talk with the orthopedist. I wanted to hit him with >some of the things suggested in online articles and by people on Danes On [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >wanting to save up a little money first. (Anyone want to commission a >portrait of your dog(s)? ;-) ) Sorry to hear of Saskia's problems, and hope you can treat them successfully without bankrupting yourselves and/or changing her lifestyle too much. You can tell from the pictures you post that she is having a great time running and leaping, it would be a shame if that had to be curtailed too much. You've probably posted about this many times before and I wasn't paying attention, but what type of portraits do you do? Can you do any breed? Do you have photos of your work? And can you give me a price range? Greyhound adopters are mad for this sort of thing, perhaps I can drum up some business for you. Mustang Sally > Sorry to hear of Saskia's problems, and hope you can treat them > successfully without bankrupting yourselves and/or changing her > lifestyle too much. Thank you. >You can tell from the pictures you post that she > is having a great time running and leaping, it would be a shame if > that had to be curtailed too much. She does adore her playtime, but, of course, she IS a Dane, so she adores her lying-upside-down on the couch time too. We can expect her to slow down significantly as she enters adulthood, too. It'd be a real shame to cut short her playtime, though, yes. > You've probably posted about this many times before and I wasn't > paying attention, Nope--I just got back into it now that Walter's several months old (he said his first word yesterday--and he chose "mama"!) and also didn't want to crassly self-advertise. >but what type of portraits do you do? Can you do > any breed? Mostly pointillism but I can also do watercolor. Usually from photos; if the photos don't reflect the desired position or something I can work from multiple pictures to do the animal in a new position. Yes, any breed, if I have clear enough images to work from in breeds I'm less familiar with. >Do you have photos of your work? Until I get a website up about it, I just have this ad: http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Misc/PortraitAdnoPhone.jpg ...and this portrait with a crappy background: http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Saskia2/SaskiaPainting.jpg >And can you give me a > price range? Pointillisms start at 120 euros for a picture of a single-color or otherwise uncomplicated-looking short(ish)haired dog (or cat or horse, etc.) and go up by 25 Euro amounts for things like shaggy, a second animal in the picture, spots or patches, etc. And I'm negotiable on it all; I like a happy relationship with clients. >Greyhound adopters are mad for this sort of thing, > perhaps I can drum up some business for you. > Mustang Sally That'd be cool! Thanks, Katrina >Until I get a website up about it, I just have this ad: >http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Misc/PortraitAdnoPhone.jpg > >...and this portrait with a crappy background: >http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Saskia2/SaskiaPainting.jpg Cute puppy! I'm such a sucker for natural ears. >Pointillisms start at 120 euros for a picture of a single-color or otherwise >uncomplicated-looking short(ish)haired dog (or cat or horse, etc.) and go up >by 25 Euro amounts for things like shaggy, a second animal in the picture, >spots or patches, etc. And I'm negotiable on it all; I like a happy >relationship with clients. I need to go find a table of equivalents for euros. Mustang Sally > >Until I get a website up about it, I just have this ad: > >http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Misc/PortraitAdnoPhone.jpg > >...and this portrait with a crappy background: > >http://www.xs4all.nl/~cooper17/katrina/Saskia2/SaskiaPainting.jpg > Cute puppy! I'm such a sucker for natural ears. Thanks! Even if cropping wren't illegal here we wouldn't have opted for it. I too like natural ears. > >Pointillisms start at 120 euros for a picture of a single-color or otherwise > >uncomplicated-looking short(ish)haired dog (or cat or horse, etc.) and go up > >by 25 Euro amounts for things like shaggy, a second animal in the picture, > >spots or patches, etc. And I'm negotiable on it all; I like a happy > >relationship with clients. > I need to go find a table of equivalents for euros. > Mustang Sally With today's excange rate that'd be $154.32 to start, so call it $150, and the subsequent amounts would be $32.15, so call it $30. --Katrina OK, spoke with the orthopedist again, and meanwhile his letter arrived--a copy of the one to my vet. Here's an update: the problem appears to just be a narrowing of the canal in C6 with no compression. A friend who breeds blues suggested a vet for a second opinion on the x-rays, and when I spoke to the orthopedist about it this turns out to be a colleague whose orthopedic work he really admires. For care we are told, also by a nice vet on my Danes board, to limit rough-and-tumble play and keep a sharp eye on her, but otherwise not to try restricting her activity at this time. She may well never get worse. I'll keep you posted. The harness I had was a centimeter too small now, but I found a Rogz that fits well and is adjustable to quite a lot larger so we're working her in that. There has been no yelp-limp for a couple of weeks now. --Katrina HOWEDY white monkey, > OK, spoke with the orthopedist again, <snip> > The harness I had was a centimeter too small now, > but I found a Rogz that fits well and is adjustable > to quite a lot larger so we're working her in that. > There has been no yelp-limp for a couple of weeks now. > > --Katrina HERE'S HOWE COME YOU CRIPPLED YOUR DOG: HOWEDY white monkey, > > Thanks for that mate, > Paul, > Most of us have this raving loony killfiled. That so? You read The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Posts FIRST. > He just says the same things to everyone Your dog is DYIN from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME on accHOWENT of you jerk and choke and crate bribe and intimdiate her <{) : ~ ( > > and has been offending people like this for years. BY QUOTING THEIR OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES OF HURTING INTIMIDATING AND MURDERING THEIR OWN DEAD AND DEATHLY ILL DOGS. Like yours, katrina <{) ; ~ ) > You broke your Great Dane's neck on your so called Gentle Leader head halter and pronged spiked pinch choke collar. The Amazing Puppy Wizard TOLD YOU SO IN ADVANCE <{) : ~ ) > > Just killfile or ignore him- BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!! You'd LIKE that, wouldn't you, dog abuser. > -attempting dialogue is useless, THAT'S on accHOWENT of EVERY THING The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ is proven correct and indellibly archived FOREVER in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives <{) ; ~ ) > > frustrating, On accHOWENT of you ain't got the INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog EVEN AFTER The Amazing Puppy Wizard and HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students all over the HOWEL WILD WORLD told you HOWE they done it EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE, to boot <{) ; ~ ) > > and upsets everyone BY QUOTING THEM HURTING DOGS AND LYING ABHOWET IT. > else because his ravings get reproduced. You mean the QUOTES of you HURTING and INTIMDATING your dogs and DENYING IT, katrina <{) ; ~ ) > > I wish I had any real suggestions for you... BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!! BUT YOU DON'T, do you, katrina. IN FACT, the ONLY ADVICE Paul got was from The Amazing Puppy Wizard, and he got the whole nine yards, katrina <{) ; ~ ) > NHOWE HE KNOWS HOWE to SOLVE the "shelter / rescue" PROBLEM. And you're trying to advise AGAINST THAT, dog lover? > you have my sympathy, BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!! > and my thanks for being willing to do something, You mean, ASK FOR HEELP? > even if WHAT exactly you CAN do is still unclear. NOT noMOORE, dog abuser. > --Katrina Your BROKE YOUR DOG'S NECK CHOKIN IT: Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 Subject: Probable mild wobblers Saskia, my 14-month-old Dane, has had for some months a problem that manifests every couple of weeks or so as a sudden yelp followed by 30 seconds of limping on her right foreleg. X-rays revealed nothing amiss with her foot, ankle, shoulder, etc. It can happen while she's playing or while she's lying on the sofa and decides to change position. It doesn't seem to worsen with increased exercise or lessen with more rest. We just went to the orthopedist. He listened to what I had to say and read the letter from the vet, and said that my feeling that her neck is the culprit sounded on-target. He got some staff in and she was held motionless while he checked over her legs and other joints, then concentrated on her neck. He found no pain reaction or loss of flexibility, so it was on to the x-ray room. Unsedated, she was put on the table and I stood by talking to her while a tech held my indignant baby in another room. He went over the x-rays with me and it seems to be wobblers. He said the only way to be 100% sure, of course, is a CT scan or MRI, which we are welcome to have scheduled at the university any time we like, but he showed me where the channel in the two vertebrae looks somewhat narrower than the others, and one vertebra seems very slightly tilted forward. <SNIP> HERE'S HOWE COME YOU CRIPPLED YOUR DOG: Re: Pulling Dane puppy [was: Re: Oh Well] HOWEDY white monkey, "White Monkey" <k.m.c.oo...@chello.nl> wrote in message news:40a486e6$0$566$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl... > Yeah, yeah, yeah, bwee-ha-ha, read the book, > all dogs are anxious and everyone's an abuser. Well, at least you're succinct. > Leave me out of it. Welcome to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method School Of Hard Knocks. > Have read your book, Well then, you should have no need for HOWER forum. > have studied canine behaviorism, Oh? Does that mean you're here to offer us advice? > have worked with a LOT of dogs, Well good for you! > find some of your ideas great INDEED? > and some kooky, You mean the idea that you can't hurt and intimidate and bribe dogs to train them. > prefer to use my head and do what I see working, You mean, you're gonna EXXXPERIMENT. > whether it comes out of your book, another book, > learned from my dog, learned from watching > something NOT work for someone else, etc. GOOD LUCK. "The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual," The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) > > Not going to get into a thing about this with you. Right. Cause you'll discover you ain't as intelligent loving and kind as you'd CONvinced yourself that you are. > Post all you want, this ain't no dialogue > and I'm done talking to you about it as > of this post. The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ "DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS." > But for your information, not giving her treats. You don't have the intellect to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog. Your chew toy you've been relying on to occupy your dog's anxiHOWES mHOWETHING, is a TREAT. > Also for your information, don't see > this as a "bad habit"- Right. On the HOWEtside it appears harmless and useful. HOWEver, if you understood REFLEXIVE MEMORY, you'd SEE that this habit could cause your dog to unintentionally grab some WON with her mHOWETH and get blamed for attacking them. You'll see for yourself, WON fine day. > -I see it as a natural behavior she needs > to learn to modify to live with humans. She's mHOWETHING you cause she's anxiHOWES cause you're choking her. Putttin a toy in her mHOWETH will cause her to grab at ANY THING when that toy ain't available when she becomes anxiHOWES. > Just like I modify some of my own to live with > a dog. I know what a happy dog looks like, a > relaxed dog, and won't listen to you telling me > from there what you tell everybody- "It is by muteness that a dog becomes so utterly beyond value." Like a confessor Priest? Don't bet your dog won't tell on you... "With him, words play no torturing tricks... John Galsworthy, adapted with permission from his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manaual. Their behaviors reflect our words, thoughts, actions, and training quirks. Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard <{TPW; ~ } > > -that all dogs are just anxious even when > someone not you says they're happy. What HOWER dog lovers describe as HAPPY is most often anxiHOWESNESS. Like when your dog does that "happy dance" when you're fixin to train him. > OK, you have some good ideas You could be killfiled for sayin that. Perhaps you should snip crossposts and trim pertinent text and put NINNYBOY in the subject header to avoid EMBARRASSMENT. > and you have some happy dogs. The Amazing Puppy Wizard seldom refers to HIS dogs cause THEY ain't the subject. > Me too. Right. That's HOWE COME you're posting to the behavior forum. > And I won't be getting into a dialogue about it. Cause that would force you to examine and confront your own human nature. Here's you jerking and choking your dog to stop her from defending herself from your jerking and choking: > > > > I try telling her "leave it" and pulling it > > > > downward. Any help you can give me > > > > would be appreciated. " From: White Monkey (k.m.c.oo...@chello.nl) Subject: Re: Re. Ads from housepet supply Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.breeds Date: 2004-05-04 03:12:06 PST I haven't been to the site, but taking your word for it about what is to be found there, this does make me furious. <snip bunk> We got her to be a family dog plain and simple, and won't be showing or breeding, and will be spaying, her, but she is one fine animal regardless of her pet status. "I am planning to show her in conformation and need to break this habit." And THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard goes "BWEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!" > --Katrina The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME is the perfect synergy of love, pride, desire, self will, greed, ego, fear, hate, arrogance, disbelief, jealousy, shame, embarrassment, guilt, anger, aversion, adversion, attraction, revulsion, repulsion, change, permanence, enlightenment, insult, attrition, and conditioning. The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) > > > HOWEDY White Monkey, > > > > "Question: > > > > I have a 4 month old Great Dane female puppy > > > > who has the habit of biting and catching the lead > > > > in her mouth to shake it in a playful manner when > > > > we walk. THAT'S ON ACCHOWENT OF YOU CHOKE HER. > > > > I am planning to show her in > > > > conformation and need to break this habit. BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!! > > > > I rubbed Bitter Apple on the lead but to no > > > > avail. I am using Tabasco pepper > > > > sauce now but it is only partially effective. BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! > > > > I try telling her "leave it" and pulling it downward. YOU MEAN YOU JERK AND CHOKE HER SOMEMOORE... > > > > Any help you can give me would be appreciated. " BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!! > > > I know this is an old post fragment and all, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > but since I have been working with my > > > 3-month-old Dane on exactly this thing, YOU'VE BROKEN HER DOGGAMENED NECK. > > The Amazing Puppy Wizard's breeds are > > Danes and English Mastiffs. > > > > I thought I'd jump in in case it is a current > > > issue for anyone else. STILL IS FOR YOUR OWN DOG, white monkey <{); ~ ( > > > Good. Perhaps we can correct your mistakes. > > People seldom read HOWER forums if they're [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > Danes are mouthy. > > MHOWETHING is BONDING behavior. > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > > and reacting to admonitions not to like it was > > > a game, YOU'VE CRIPPLED HER, YOU MENTAL CASE. > > No. That was FRUSTRATION. FROM BEING CHOKED <{) ; ~ ) > > > > shaking it, pulling back on it, etc. > > > That's cause you're pulling and intimidating her. AND THAT'S HOWE COME SHE'S CRIPPLED NHOWE. > > > One thing that helped teach her she wasn't > > > supposed to do that was to stop and have > > > her sit, then tell her to leave it, and when she > > > did, we could go on with her nice walk. THAT'S INSANE. That VARIABLY REINFORCES the BAD behavior. > > That could reinforce the behavior ESPECIALLY > > if you're using treats for the sittin. SEE??? > > > She also grabbed our clothes and pulled, while walking. Your dog is TRYIN to ESCAPE your ABUSE. > > Like you was doin to her collar. That's called > > allelomimetic behavior. [quoted text clipped - 246 lines] > > "Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wil...@easynews.com> > > wrote inmessage news:pjaootcg8dgrptuu96383933eqk2jjp7b2@4ax.com... > > > I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite > > > a bit of the literature suggested I needed to [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > percent, and nothing is more important in her world than her > > > relationship with me. http://www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy > > > Charlie > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > (l l l) Your Puppy Wizard. <}YPW; ~ } > > > oo-oo I was just wondering if she has had a tick panel. She has some of the symptoms. Read this site about neck pain. http://www.vetinfo.com/derlick.html Regards > I was just wondering if she has had a tick > panel. She has some of the symptoms. > Read this site about neck pain. > http://www.vetinfo.com/derlick.html > > Regards Well, no she hasn't and you're right that this is something that should be ruled out so I will make an appointment for the tests, but I highly doubt this is the cause. First of all, there IS a vertebral abnormality evident in the x-rays which could easily account for the type of pain she has. Second, the tick season here is short and she was Frontlined throughout and checked daily, and we never saw a tick on her. My husband has an absolute horror of them, and I used to work in grooming and for vets, so she was definitely checked thoroughly--yes, even between her toes and down her ears. Third, you say she has "some of the symptoms", but she seems to me only to have neck pain, which can be *a* symptom. If I'm wrong, please point out which others she has. I found the following information: --Signs of the acute phase: lymph nodes, liver, and spleen are often enlarged. Anemia, fever, depression, lethargy, loss of --appetite, shortness of breath, joint pain and stiffness, and bruises are often seen. Well, except for occasional brief neck pain on certain movements, she has never had ANY of these symptoms. We are around this dog 20+ hours per day and would notice, and she was examined thoroughly for signs of enlarged lymph glands and anemia, etc., by our regular vet and, more recently, the orthopedist. When she had the leg x-rays she also had an abdominal x-ray to ascertain that her stomach tack was successful, and everything looked to be the right size and in the right place. --In the subclinical phase, the animal may show only slight anemia. During this phase, the dog either eliminates the Ehrlichia from --the body or the infection may progress to the chronic phase. Looking back through her vet records, which I have here because we picked up a printout when we moved, I see "healthy, pink gums" mentioned at all exams. She had a recurrent mild skin infection that seems to be clearing up nicely with her new food, and so had an exam every couple of weeks. She has never had a dip in her energy levels, either. Her platelet count was good at the time of the leg x-rays, some 4 months after the initial onset of this very occasional symptom, which initial development was some 8 months ago. --The chronic phase generally develops 1-4 months after the tick bite and can be either mild or severe. Weight loss, anemia, --neurological signs, bleeding, inflammation of the eye, edema (fluid accumulation) in the hind legs, and fever may be seen. And none of this has ever been evident or detected either. Thank you and I will have this ruled out, but it's nowhere near as common here as in warmer countries and I see no real reason to suspect it particularly. --Katrina |
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