Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / May 2005

HOWEDY steph,

Not to worry. We're in EXXXCELLENT rude company.

bugF'nNUTS AIN'T a vet, but she IS a LIAR and DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE.

Duh?

HOWEDY sue and Atty,

Sue and Atty wrote:

Yeah. Didn't you just recently MURDER the Jadee half
of sue and Jadee on accHOWNET of she got poisoned by
your vet's injection of Lyme disease vaccine...

INDEEDY. sue FHOWEND HOWET AFTER HER DEAD DOG DIED.

She called it juvenile renal failure. BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAAa!!!

Your ANTI PSYCHOTIC drugs mangle your reasoning...

Yeah. You got your just desserts, didn't you. Or rather, JADEE DID.

That so? You're a lying dog abusing punk thug coward
MENTAL CASE just judgin by your own POSTED CASE HISTORY.

You and your VET MURDERED Jadee. Your dog Atty is likeWIZE
DYIN of STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME on accHOWNET OF YOU ABUSE HIM.

You mean like HOWE you done for you own DEAD DOG Jadee...

WE KNOW SHOCKING DOGS MAKES THEM RUN HOWET ON THEIR
HOWESES and MAKES THEM FEAR AGGRESSIVE and NEUROTIC
and GETS SOME DOGS DEAD:

Local: Thurs,Jan 6 2005 5:50 pm
Subject: Re: Invisible Fence cost?

HOWEDY sue and Atty,

"Sue and Atty" <_apple_notmyrealaddr...@raexd­ot.com> wrote in
message news:10trdhbq57f0351@corp.supernews.com...

Well, you've got a VERY LONG POSTED
CASE HISTORY of HURTIN INTIMDIATING
and MURDERING your dogs though your
ignorance stupidity and viciHOWESNESS.

You just MURDERED your last DEAD DOG.

REMEMBER?

You could TRAIN your dog to ANY perimeter
in a few minutes withHOWET HURTIN HIM
if you knew HOWE.

YOU PREFER TO HURT and INTIMDIATE your dogs.

Your dog is DEATHLY ILL.

THAT'S on accHOWENT of HE'S AFRAID
to go near the BHOWENDARY on accHOWENT
of YOU HURT HIM.

You use a test LIGHT.

You should strap it arHOWEND your neck
and take a walk over the line to test it JUST
SO SOME DIRTBAG like The Amazing Puppy
Wizard doesn't ACCUSE you of bein a DOG
ABUSER.

BWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAA!!!

<SNIP IDIOCY>

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 08:28:24 GMT

Subject: Re: FAQ's question

HOWEDY sue and Atty,

"Sue and Atty" <_apple_notmyrealaddr...@raexd­ot.com> wrote in
message news:10kccelei5b9e23@corp.supernews.com...

The main topics are hurting and intimidating
and murdering dogs and lying abHOWET The
Amazing Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of
HE'S IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED
HOWER

Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Punk
Thug Cowards and ACTIVE LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES

Like sue, for EXXXAMPLE.

Yeah? Not according to the % of posts.
Most of them are lies by dog abusers
abHOWET The Amazing Puppy Wizard.

You HURT and INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs
and LIE abHOWET The Amazing Puppy Wizard
on accHOWENT of you're a dog abusing mental
case.

From: Sue and Atty (_apple_notmyrealaddr...@raexd­ot.com)
Subject: Re: Underground Fence HELP!!!
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
Date: 2004-05-25 16:28:36 PST

I completely trust Atty with the IF.

I wouldn't leave her out if I wasn't at least
home (and as I've said before,

I choose to go out with her except on snowy mornings).

I hear too many stories of dogs stolen from yards -
even WITH physical fences, and with the owners home.

Not a problem in our immediate area, but home
burglaries weren't a problem in our neighborhood
until about 6 months ago, either.

Sue and Atty

From: Sue and Atty (_apple_notmyrealaddr...@raexd­ot.com)
Subject: Re: Do You Leave the Prong Collar On?

Date: 2003-09-19 13:47:50 PST

Of curse not! That'd be CRUEL.

You HURT and INTIMIDATE your dogs.

So you can jerk and choke her.

That so? Only a MENTAL CASE would say
sumpthin like that. HOWE do you REINFORCE
GOOD BEHAVIOR with a PRONGED SPIKED
PINCH CHOKE COLLAR, dog abuser?

"DWINDLING???"

You mean your dog AIN'T trained.

BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

Oh . That's on accHOWENT of you don't
know HOWE to pupperly handle and train
you dog. All you know is HURT INTIMIDATE
BRIBE AVOID and spray aversives shock
choke and lock IT in a box.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

THAT'S INSANE.

You mean you jerked and choked her
on your pronged spiked pinch choke
collar someMOORE.

You mean, when you ran HOWETA ideas
and information and methods to handle
and train your dog withHOWET HURTIN
HER.

From: Sue and Atty (_apple_notmyrealaddr...@raexd­ot.com)
Subject: Re: Barking
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
Date: 2003-07-29 17:48:53 PST

I agree. With Atty's allergies, I'm sure she'd have
some reaction to it. We can't even use FeBreeze.
She itches up a storm. I've never used one, we
use "hush" or " that's enough" or "quiet". I always
tell her "good girl, what is it?" when she barks the
first time - I want her to warn me if there is something
there, but after a bark or two - and I've checked out
what she's barking at, that's enough. Thankfully
she's not a compulsive barker!

Jadee barked at squirrels just for the heck of it -
didn't go over well with us at 6 in the morning!

We got one of those sonic things from the pet
store.... a couple of pushes on the button and
no more compulsive barking - it stopped her
dead in her tracks.

I tried it with Atty - she just looked at me, like
"is that supposed to do something?" and went
on doing what she was doing. (with her, we
tried to use it for when she chewed on the remote,
chewed on the pillows, things like that)

Sue and Atty

From: Sue and Atty (_apple_notmyrealaddr...@raexd­ot.com)
Subject: Re: chewing on her feet
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
Date: 2003-07-16 19:35:05 PST

I agree.... Atty constantly licks her feet and chews
at them - both top and inside the pads. Much better
now that we've been working on eliminating the
allergy culprits. Accupuncture really has helped
her with the symptoms, although it doesn't
eliminate the cause.

Sue and Atty

From: Sue and Atty (_apple_notmyrealaddr...@raexd­ot.com)
Subject: Re: advice about "naughty" lab
Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
Date: 2004-02-27 16:36:28 PST

I could have sworn I wrote this post. Looking
forward to the replies.

Sue and Atty (who is almost 3 <G>)

"There is a special application of NAET that
addresses the emotional component of allergy.
Because emotions can create energy blockages
and therefore cause imbalance, treating emotions
as if they are allergens can be accomplished with
NAET. By using MRT to identify emotional
imbalances and following the basic treatment
protocol, it is possible to address and resolve
behavioral issues such as inappropriate urination,
antisocial behavior and aggressiveness, as well
as inter-family dynamics and adaptation to change
such as grief or loss."

HOWEDY dave,

"Dave K" <dave_k...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:CHICd.13736$ce6.6873@lakeread07...

"Tricia9999" <tricia9...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20021117101433.10365.00000067@mb-cg.aol.com...

           ------------------------------­----
"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then. She trusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...

"Things are beginning to get much worse day
by day and the vets seem unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR­ufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorR­ufusSmall.WMV"

THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.

Shocking dogs goes for dog abusing mental
cases who ain't got the intellect to HOWEtwit
the cunnin of the domestic puppy dog even
after The Amazing Puppy Wizard and HIS
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual Students all over the
Whole Wild World told you HOWE they done
it EZ GENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR
FREE, to boot.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

Misty SEZ the price was too high:

       misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message
       news:
       6946-3B6337A1-...@storefull-23­3.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

       We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
       Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no
       collars.

       Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want
       to come back in the yard and would run for days.

       The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

       I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
       to train my dog.

       She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
       reinforces her desire to stay in the yard. She no
       longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
       chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk
       around the yard.

       I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate
       the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a
       regular fence then you need to train your dog.

       I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my
       dog in our yard again. The price was too high:-(

       ~misty

You could train your dog to ANY perimeter or border
in a couple minutes withHOWET HURTING and
INTIMIDATING IT if you knew HOWE:

       "misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news:
       16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-229­3.public.lawson.webtv.net

       I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know
       she's not here with us. I really can't blame anyone
       here for her loss.

       I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because
       of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the
       idea that my using a shock collar could have any
       bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home.

       Up until I started using it my main concern had been
       keeping my dogs in their own yard.

       Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
       concern became how to keep them from running off for
       days on end.

       I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in
       the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

       I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world
       now <g A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely
       housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the
       yard, and doesn't bark all the time.

       IOW a great companion and friend.

       Thanks Jerry!

       =====================

Here's a couple MOORE in case you think
Misty is a FLUKE or sumpthin... EVERY
CASE HISTORY CITED CAN BE VERIFIED:

From: Nevyn (greatd...@badmama.com.au)
Subject: Re: radio fence
Date: 2003-11-05 04:17:45 PST

Hi folks,

In my opinion the use of a radioshock fence is a waste of
time, effort or money. I can understand it if you a rich snob
who cares nothing about their dogs safey or behaviours.

At work I boundary train all the dogs to the bricked area
(Four kennels with 26 cages with 1 dog in each, 1 services
building and 2 catterys which is surrounded by scrubland to
the east and woodlands to the north and a lake to the west).

This works well, because then when people buy them the dogs
are easier to boundary train to a door or fence or yard.

However on a personal note, my two shelter mutts, who I
trained using the WITS END DOG MANUAL available at
www.doggydoright.com will not go past the back door, or the
back gate or the front gate without permission.

And it is nice, for when you are having a party, you can leave
your gates open for people, and your dogs won't be the least
concerned.

I find this better then spending your well earned money on a
piece of junk Why not use it to invest in a horse? Or a new
house? Make a nice aquarium? Build a nursery for a child?

Save your money. Train your dog. Please. -- Thankyou,
                 Nevyn

______________________________­___
Nevyn E.D. Veterinary Nurse
& Animal Trainer greatd...@badmama.com.au
"You can judge a man's heart by his treatment of animals"
______________________________­____

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaul_bou...@clear.net.n­z)
Subject: Re: Fence Jumping

Date: 2000-09-29 04:33:37 PST

Been well experienced in dogs escaping from our
yard I know exactly the frustration you are going
through.  Sam used to jump over the fence so I
made it higher then we got Roz and she went
under it, through it and climbed over it.

I've decided there are only 2 ways to stop the escaping,
1 is to have an escape proof fence, the other to train the
dogs not to want to escape.

I suppose a third method is to keep them
inside but I don't consider that a solution.

Making the fence escape proof can be almost impossible
if the dog is determined, to stop it climbing over as yours
is doing put an extension on top of the fence that angles
inwards at about 30-45 degrees. Never use chicken wire
as the dogs tear through that like paper.

The only training method to prevent this I can recall is
Jerry's technique, essentially it involves walking around the
perimeter of the fenced area with the dog and using sound
distractions and praise to teach the dog it's boundary.

I have had partial success with it (i.e. I have deterred Roz
from escaping from various points along the fence) but then
again I haven't really followed it through completely.

One last glimmer of hope, as the dog gets older it may
become more settled, Sam never escapes now although
he's quite capable of getting out, he 2.5 years old and
seemed to settle at about 2.  So there you are, only 1.5
years of escaping left!!!

Paul.

=================

                           A DOG Is A Dog;
                        As A KAT Is A KAT;
                     As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
                    As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
            As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

 ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

                    ALL Critters Only Respond In
         PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
                  INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
 To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
                    Which We Create For Them.

      Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
           We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
                 And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

              "It is by muteness that a dog becomes
                         so utterly beyond value."

                        Like a confessor Priest?

                                 "With him,
                    words play no torturing tricks.........., "
                             --John Galsworthy.

               Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
                         Their behaviors reflect
         HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
         Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >

You mean 'Thanks Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing
Punk Thug Cowards and ACTIVE LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES who HURT INTIMIDATE
and MURDER dogs'.

granville's DEAD DOG ATTACKED a child biting
her viciHOWESLY in the face for standin in front
of a fence that reminded her of her SHOCK FENCE
JUST LIKE HOWE liea altshuller's dog Cubbe
ATTACKED her only friend and tried to attack two
children when they stood in her SHOCK ZONE and
culprit aka kelly's dogs MURDERED her DEAD KAT
and attack each other thanks to their SHOCK FENCES.
Here's a child gettin MAULED, thanks to a shock fence:

HOWEDY granville,
granvi...@indigo.ie (Granville) wrote in
<vI62a.8882$V6.11...@news.indi­go.ie>:

Well, permit The Puppy Wizzzard to turn you INSIDE OUT.

That'll improve the spin... so you can kill your dog
in good conscience, just like you been HURTIN IT in good
consicience, cause that's the NATURE of a lying dog abusing
Punk Thug Coward who'd HURT their dog and then KILL IT, to
be FAIR.

Yeah. That won't last long, HOWEver.

They WAS. WON IS ABOUT TO GET DEAD NOW.

Yeah. The Puppy Wizzzard's been EXXXPECTING you.

WELCOME TO WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method School Of HARD KNOCKS.

You're about to KILL your dog, as PREDICTED.

Yeah. That's HOWE COME you'd HURT them. You wouldn't
have the balls to hurt a dog like The Puppy Wizzzard's
dogs, cause they'd mop the goddamned floors with you
for HURTIN them...

Of course not. That's on account of they fear you,
cause you hurt them.

Cause you'll HURT them if they don't give it up...

Yeah... Just sad.

The Puppy Wizzzard don't PLAY games. You HURT
your dogs, that's HOWE COME they've now turned
AGGRESSIVE:

From: Granville (granvi...@indigo.ie)
Subject: Re: e-fencing question
Date: 2003-01-29 05:26:47 PST

I have found the secret is for the dog to associates
something different and new with crossing the barrier.

I put on the lead, leave on the collar,
turn the system off and walk the dog across.

Ok so the first time the resist, but they soon learn
that it's ok to cross over with their leash attached.

It gives them "permission" to cross with you and the leash.

I don't take the collar off, because I use a training
collar as well. I don't want the dog becoming "collar
smart" and only obey if they have the collar on."

The "training" collar being your PRONGED SPIKED
PINCH CHOKE collar...

Yeah.. just relaxin.

Then the dog looked around and seen the fences...
and the kids.

Yeah.. surprise, surprise, surprise...

Good for you!

The sight of the fence nearby the kids provoked
memories of every shock your poor dog has taken
from your shock fence.

Yeah. He went really NUTS cause YOU HURT HIM.

He'll probably do the same thing, he's just learnin HOWE.

That so? You think it's fine to get your head bit by
a dog at the park on lead?

Yeah... a stroke of LUCK... hunh? You mighta got sued
BIG TIME had the dog ripped the kid's face off, like he
wanted to do for the kid, cause YOU HURT HIM.

Of curse not!!! You'll NEVER SEE the TRUTH, cause
that's SCAREY, and THAT would MAKE YOU SAD. You're
EMBARRASSED lookin at your own HUMAN NATURE.

We don't need EXXXCUSES for HURTIN HOWER dogs.

The child didn't HURT the dog. YOU DID. You BEEN HURTING IT
since day WON.

The dog was frightened of YOU.

The Puppy Wizzzard does. The Puppy Wizzzard sez
only THUGS PUNKS and COWARDS HURT DOGS
and then they KILL THEM, TO BE FAIR.

YOU HURT YOUR DOG TO "TRAIN" IT.

Now you wantPERMISSION to KILL IT.

You got The Puppy Wizzzard's PERMISSION to
KILL your dog... so long as you EXXXPLAIN
to your KIDS, HOWE COME YOU GOT TO KILL YOUR
DOG, CAUSE YOU HURT IT, and MADE IT FEAR CHILDREN.

Can society TRUST YOU with a child. The Puppy
Wizzzard sez NO. You're a liar and an abuser.

Of curse you can... you have since the git go,
since day WON...

It's YOU who is SICK.

Cause she knows you'll HURT HER if she plays rough...
like the food and bone and pullin on leash. It's all the
same same same same...

NOT IF YOU HURT THE DOG ENOUGH.
She's SAFE, so long as YOU HURT HER
IN ADVANCE.

You're the bum who's been tellin US to HURT HOWER dogs.

You're facing your own human nature, SUCKER.

What you SHOULD do has NEVER been a question for
you. You've done what your HUMAN NATURE DICTATES:
HURT less capable beings, and LIE to DEFEND YOURSELF.

You'll KILL this dog, and in a few months when his
littermate turns on the family or a neighbor's kid,
you'll KILL IT, too...

And when your kids grow up and end up in jail or nutHOWESES,
you'll blame THEM for not listening to you when you was
SETTING THE EXXXAMPLE of HUMAN DECENCY.

The Puppy Wizzzard doesn't pander to lying dog abusing Punk
Coward Thugs who're fixin to KILL their dogs cause THEY HURT
THEM:

THANK YOU!!!

The Puppy Wizzzard NEEDS YOUR CASE HISTORY:

From: Granville (granvi...@indigo.ie)
Subject: It's not like that.....
Date: 2003-01-30 10:49:38 PST

I must disagree....none of what is contained in the
article resonates with me nor have I seen it with
the other 7 people I know who have an electric
fence.

The dogs restrained include Retrievers, Spaniels,
Wheaten Terriers, Labs.

I accept that there is a theoretical risk if you
have a highly strung or more bullheaded animal.

However I have seen such animals going beserk
behind fences and trying to dig under them and
gnawing at them.

In my view the animal has been out of control through
their dislike of any restraint. The problem is primarily
with the animal not the method of keeping them restrained.

However in this case it's a moot point...given we are
talking about a balanced animal.

I have two labs...and there has never been an issue of
agression nor their natural protective instincts being
heightened by the EF.

Strays get seen off and the dogs stop at the boundary
and bark .....at worst.

The notion that a stray getting into the fenced off
area and affectively having your dog captive within
the area is true, however I have never seen it.

Probably because dogs tend to protect their space,
and strays get the signals that they are not wanted.

But hey just for fun lets speculate for a while.....

Imagine your dog is pefect and sits in the yard...you
have no EF nor perimeter fence...In strolls another dog
into the yard.

What happens...if your dog sees them off, or plays..no
issue If your dog is fearful and cowers and stays in situ....
well thats just the dogs personality....no issue

Why would you put an EF down in this instance?.....
Strikes me as there is no need.

What happens if your dog bolts and/or chases rather
than stays in situ. Well unless you want to give total
freedom to run wherever they fancy, you either have him
permanently chained up, you put up a yard fence or you
lay down an EF.

In my view the best and most cost effective option

in keeping an even tempered and placid dog humanely
contained throughout the day is the EF.

In the two years I have had an EF I have could count
the amount of corrrections on two hands.

They learn really quickly.

By the way the installation is really easy..took me a
half day to do a yard...150 feet X 100 feet.

"jay jay" <jjf...@notmail.com> wrote in message

news:b1bigh$111b8m$1@ID-87431.news.dfncis.de...

Oh, bye the bye, ask matty HOWE his dog Rocky's
SEIZURES are doin... THAT'S CAUSED BY BRIBES
AND PUNISHMENT AND CRATING...

BWEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...

"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

Here is a video from Fred which I have a few concerns
about (and maybe Fred can weigh in if he sees fit), THE
SAME "FRED" that johnny would invite to heelp his
shelter dogs learn RESPECT.

This is a video about Nero being taught to get on
a skateboard.

http://www.studioonline.com/pl­ayvideos.asp?crypt=A7E284B9ABD­FCE0F

or http://tinyurl.com/389al

In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.

If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.

Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh

Even your PALS the "DOG LOVERS" on the
abuse groups were HOWEtraged by those stunts.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good
of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those
who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.

"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
perceives that the two are one knows the truth."

"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
permission from His FREE copy of my FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual.

Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.

Here's Cubbe ATTACKING a neighbor's dog
and previHOWEsly attacking liea's only friend
and assaulting a couple kids and escaping her
surrHOWEND SHOCK SYSTEM, which MADE
HER AGGRESSIVE:

"It Was Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With
Her Usual ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To
Give Cubbe A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap Cubbe Got
Out In The Neighborhood Leashless:

Julia F N Altshuler (d0006...@dc.seflin.org)
Subject: 1 step forward, 2 steps back
Date: 2001-01-07 19:28:05 PST

Cubbe got out in the neighborhood leashless for the
first time in roughly 2 years. The first few times were
when we first got her before she'd had any training
and before we got the electric fence to reinforce the
physical one.

It was horrible. She paid us no attention, ignored
clickers and treats and calls. Make that, it was
horrible for us. She had a blast running free and
chasing whatever she wanted.

For us it was 45 minutes of sheer terror as we
tried to catch her.

Luckily there wasn't too much traffic yesterday
morning. It had snowed, and the streets weren't
quite clear yet. Jim finally caught her when she
was preoccupied with her head down a hole.

For 2 years I've been giving her a daily long walk in the
neighborhood. She now walks pretty nicely on a leash.
She gets daily indoor clicker training sessions.

She has perfect recalls in the house. She gets intermittent treats
for those recalls. She gets
plenty of time to run free in the backyard.

Her recalls are less reliable there, but I've been
working on them. I haven't been as good about
introducing the variable reinforcement there, but
I have been good about making sure that she's
never tricked into coming into the house when
she'd rather be outside. I always call her, give
her a treat or praise and let her go again.

So I haven't been a perfect dog trainer, but I don't
think I'm a terrible one. I say that because I'm about
to ask y'all for some help in correcting my mistakes,
and while I don't mind criticism for past mistakes, I
am hoping you'll concentrate on what I should do now.

Yesterday morning Cubbe had had some nice
backyard time. I'd gotten her into the house and
was preparing to leave when she escaped straight through the front
door and right in front of our noses.

She was still wearing the zap collar, but the
battery was low. She gave a small yip when
she went over the wire, and the chase ensued.

We were careful not to scold her once she was caught.

Today I let her out in the backyard with her usual zap collarnow
with a fresh battery. She was waiting by the backdoor to come in
when I went to call her. From her excited behavior, I could tell
that she fully expected to be let out the front door again so she
could have another fun romp in the neighborhood.

I'm so filled with anxiety from yesterday's
escapade that I keep checking for her every
time I open the door.

Later in the afternoon, she was much worse
about coming when called even from the backyard.

My specific questions:

How do I teach recalls when she so clearly knows
when she's in a confined space and when she isn't?

She normally only wears the zap collar when she's in the
backyard because the wire goes around the house and
could zap her when she's near certain windows inside.

If I let her get zapped at the front door with the zap collar,
can I still take the zap collar off and walk her out the front
door with her leash on?

I don't want her to become afraid of the front door.

What's the best emergency procedure if, god
forbid, it should happen again?

Might Cubbe be ready for harsher training techniques? By this I
mean, I've been using clicker and treats for Cubbe because she so
obviously freaked when we
used leash corrections and scoldings when we first
got her.

I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll state
my opinion once and won't defend it further: any
method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for
Cubbe at the beginning, but we've come a long
way since then.

She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?

Last night we had friends over for dinner with their
3 daughters ages 14, 10 and 7. The girls loved
Cubbe and were having a blast clicker training her.
I was impressed with how quickly they caught on
and how little correction they needed to be consistent
with the clicks and treats.

Cubbe was fine with the children; she always
has been. Just as they were getting ready to
go, the 10 year old went to give Cubbe a hug.

Cubbe must have felt threatened and confined
because she gave a snarl-snap.

I was right there, and without thinking I quickly yelled,
turned Cubbe over on her back, got in the face and let her know
that no snarling is allowed. The girl wasn't
frightened at all, and her parents who were also right
there hadn't realized what had happened. I then asked
the snarlee to rub Cubbe's belly further to reinforce
that Cubbe is the submissive one in that relationship.

I let Cubbe up and all was fine.

I suppose that's another issue, but I bring it up as part of
wondering if Cubbe should be trained with punishments now.

Like I said, I did that without thinking, and now I think it
was the right thing to do. So how do I apply this to dealing with
Cubbe the escapee?

--Lia

===================

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@attbi.com> wrote in message

news:3DC4A3BD.645A4FC9@attbi.com...

From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshu...@comcast.net)
Subject: Cubbe report: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST

Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe. For a week he's been feeding me glowing
reports about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.

Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.

I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companionship of her own
species. Jim's reports were encouraging.

Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory. They sniffed as dogs
normally do.

Chief and Cubbe entered the front door. To my
amazement, all was fine. Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.

Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
like SITs).

Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together. He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.

Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief. She's not an experienced
fighter so I don't know if attack is the right word. She
was snarfing, making growly noises, jumping on Chief,
had her mouth on Chief's neck (on his back, behind his
ears) and basically not looking friendly, but I think if she'd
wanted to do real damage, she would have, and Chief
was fine, nary a hair out of place.

Naturally with us all right there, we were able to
intervene in seconds.

A second later, it was all over. Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance. Jo
and Chief went home. (I went with them
for chat and apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe
story.)

Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people.

Might she have been guarding the balls Jim brought
out? Or was it the fact that we let our guard down for
a few seconds and she got scared of Chief when we
all weren't practically on top of her?

Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a
few seconds would have been better for a first try?

Or other theories?

Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe? Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?

--Lia

===================