Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / October 2005

HOWEDY michael,

Have them report to the person who MURDERS them
at the local shelter and make them stay for a
while heelpin the euthanasia tech... that be you,
michael.

INDEED. Like the plague, or cancer.

It takes folks knowin WHO the ENEMY IS, michael.

That be you again, michael:

"Violence isn't a solution when you're teaching
children, who can reason.

Animals can't reason in the same way that kids can.

So-called "violence" - or a humane, immediate, but
uncomfortable correction - is sometimes the best
way to deal with an animal's transgressions, IMO.

Otherwise, you're no more annoying than a gnat,
and about as meaningful," flick 100785

THESE ARE THE MENTAL CASES WHO MURDER DOGS
and BLAME THE BREED, Shannon. THESE are the
RESCUE DOG LOVERS WHO MURDER DOGS TO SAVE
THEM FROM HARM, Shannon. THESE are the DOG
ABUSING MENTAL CASES who COMPLAIN abHOWET
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
NON PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC and PSYCHOLOGICAL
CONDITIONING TECHNIQUES that REHABILITATES
ALL temperament and behavior problems NEARLY
INSTANTLY AS REPORTED RIGHT HERE on The
Amazing Puppy Wiard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Forums and are
called LIARS and their posts FORGERIES by
the DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASES we got here:

From: "Michael A. Ball" <Guard...@wireco.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 22:35:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Ethical Dilemma (Son bitten by
dog in schoolyard) (long)

This NG is specifically for dog rescue.

I hate cats and never give a cat an even break-
-unless they just happen to break in the middle.

When I started to work at the animal shelter,
cleaning kennels, I was asked if I liked cats.
I replied enthusiastically, "Yes, if they are
cooked right!"

I've never had to work with the cats! :-)

We're all different.

Michael

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> -
Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Symphony rests in Peace.

Hello michael,

"Michael A. Ball" <Guard...@wireco.net> wrote in message
news:tp01k9kg212nfe@corp.supernews.com...

No she wasn't euthanized, she was MURDERED,
because you do that stuff to dogs for a
living for yourself. You're part of the
problem, michael.

That IS reassuring, michael. Is that what your 'boss' told you?

I'd prefer you'd take his place.

BWWWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!! YOU KILL DOGS FOR A LIVING, michael.

Your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn is
a pathological liar and notorious dog
abuser, you puke.

What would be sobering would be to THINK
about what you're doing.

Sorry mikey, you just don't have the knowHOWE.

Ask cindymooreon about the tremendous handicap
deafness is. She can't even hear her dogs scream
when she pinches and twists their ears and toes
and shocks and jerks and chokes them on her
pronged spiked pinch choke collar, mikey.

That's sad, isn't it?

Looking in the mirror couldn't be EZ for you,
mikey. Why do you come here with your tripe?

Get the heel outta here. This forum is for people
who want to HELP dogs, not HELP KILL THEM.

Maybe you and janet and john richardson and
the bobsey twins lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn
and cindymooreon will get together on a nice
dog killing forum?

I guarantee you couldn't find your butt
in the dark with both hands even if you
had a couple Thugs helping.

What the heel kind of crap are you spouting?

YOU KILL DOGS FOR A LIVELIHOOD.

Yes mike. And your killing machine is warmed
up and ready to kill them too, with your expert
help, mikey. Thanks.

Well, aren't you the nice guy? Did you hold
Symphony and wisper LIES in her ear? Oh, I
forgot, her only problem was she can't hear.

Good reason to have killed her, mikey.

Good work.

Oh, you are ever so welcome, mikey.

Guardian? Of WHAT? The rendering plant you sell the dead animals to?

That so?

Subject: Re: Humane way to euthanize dog

Re: Euthanasia.... why different methods?:

Subject: Re: Sounds of hounds abounds

Date: 2004-04-03 18:10:17 PST

HOWEDY disciple cris,

4207-406F44D5-...@storefull-31­­­37.bay.webtv.net...

The S-HOWEND of dog lovers hypocrites liars
cowards and active long term incurable mental
cases like you takin advantage of folks and
critters an makin money off of disavailing
dogs of their HOWESES and lives.

From: C. Brunner (brun...@NOTvetmed.auburn.edu)
Subject: Re: Why a violent reaction to euthenasia?
Date: 1998/06/22

In article <3589E079.F7C5F...@spamspamspa­­­­m.com

nos...@spamspamspam.com writes: <snip>

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," racetrack silly.

"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message

news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv128jnumgmb2m27opr@4ax.com...

Nope.  No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Oh. THAT'S on accHOWENT of you lying dog
abusing punk thug cowards WON'T TALK BUSINESS
with The Amazing Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of
he QUOTES you HURTIN dogs and LYIN abHOWET it.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard works 24/7 to
IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT you and
your miserable lying dog abusing punk
thug coward mental cases by QUOTING YOUR
OWN POSTED CASE HISTORIES, racetrack silly.

LIKE THIS:

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message

news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same.  The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about  Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories.  The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
        Sally Hennessey

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

 lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
 For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
 pass it through the crate door.  Attach a line to it.
 When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

 Lynn K.

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.)  But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong  - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.  Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog.   I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use.   Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars.  At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8)  Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog.   I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation.   Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag.   (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.)  But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer." Lynn K.

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake.  I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K., Long term incurable mental case.

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

You mean sue sternberg.

That so?

Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME it trHOWEbles
you so when The Amazing Puppy Wizard QUOTES
YOUR "OLD" posts.

BWEEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

EVERY NEW POSTER KNOWS YOU'RE A
LIAR A DOG ABUSER A COWARD AND A
CERTIFIED LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASE.

                  WORDS OF WISDOM
            from our own Lynn Kosmakos
   1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
                 For Twenty Years

      I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

 "I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
 requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
 day.

 I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
 more, while happily sharing pertinent information
 I have learned.  But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
 I would hope that every other reader of this group
 would be rightfully outraged."

 "Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
  the right to participate in by observing the
  easily understood rules and contributing to in
  constructive ways."

  Lynn K.

------------------------------­­­-----------

 "It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
 - she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
 a comment she made about scarey side effects of
 Lithium.  Hardly.  After 17 years on it, I think
 I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
 any side effect is far less frightening than the
 very real dangers of life without it."

 Lynn K.
------------------------------­­­-------

THAT'S INSANE. AIN'T IT. So's this:

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI, marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation," dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy,  "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

 "Tending To Agree With The Positive Reinforcement Method"?

     HOWEDY People,

       Hello Tara,

       "Tara O." <tara29...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
       news:n%Zy6.30496$BC6.8869056@e3500-chi1.usenetserver.co
       m...

       > I tend to agree with the positive reinforcement
       > method.

       Oh, that's nice. I tend to think people who tend to
       agree with positive reinforcement methods tend to be
       pulling our chains... That's what I tend to think,
       based on my experience working with people who tend to
       agree with positive reinforcement who TEND TO
       hurt their dogs when their tendencies to use positive
       methods are outweighed by their tendencies to run out
       of information or intellect and TEND to get frustrated
       and TEND NOT to do the things they TEND TO believe are
       right, when they TEND to be frustrated, or TEND to be
       at a loss for INTELLECT, and TEND TO resort to
       violence because they TEND to be shy on BRAINS... I
       TEND TO view those folks as hypocrites, that's what I
       TEND to do because I just happen to TEND to be HONEST,

       > IMO, shock collars should be used only after normal
       > obedience training methods have failed.

       If your NORMAL obedience training TENDED to properly
       train dogs, there would be a TENDENCY to have well
       trained dogs. But that's not the case, becasuse NORMAL
       obedience training TENDS to provoke, intimidate, and
       confound your dog and inhibit his ability to think
       and learn to want to work and think and learn... SEE?

       That's what I TEND to think about NORMAL obedience
       training which TENDS to FAIL because it TENDS to
       resort to VIOLENCE instead of TENDING TOWARDS
      THE MOST EFFECTIVE SCIENTIFIC METHODS AVAILABLE.

       > It just bothers me to imagine shocking my dog, even
       > at a very low frequency.

       It bothers me less to think of shocking the dog than
       thinking about what punishment and confrontation can
       do to a dog's temperament. That's what I tend to think
       based on my thirty eight years professional experience
       training dogs.

       > I will definitely admit that there are many dogs who
       > either can't or won't benefit from training without
       > such things as e-collars.

       Is that based on your thirty eight years of experience
       specializing in temperament and behavior problems and
       protection training in giant breed dogs? Or is that
       based on your TENDANCY to believe incompetent dog
       abusing Thugs who tell you they TEND to get excellent
       results from HURTING dogs to train them because they
       TEND NOT TO be intelligent enough to outwit the
       cunning of the domestic puppy dog???

       OR IS IT BASED ON YOUR TENDENCY TO MURDER
       YOUR OWN DEAD DOG Summer?

       > I just hope its a last-resort, not a first.

       And I just hope you figure out why your pals here who
       hurt dogs to train them TEND to claim they have me in
       their killfiles, because they TEND NOT TO be able to
       answer my questions in good conscience...That's what
       they TEND to do around here because our lying dog
       abusing Thugs TEND to be INCOMPETENT, IMMORAL,
       UNETHICAL, UNPRINCIPLED, DOG ABUSING COWARDS.

       Like yourself.

       That's what I tend to think.

      Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe. j;~}
      The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{) ; ~  )  >

       <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
       Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:12:11
       GMT Local: Thurs, Oct 7 2004 10:12 am

       Subject: "I'm Shocked That I Shocked" tara o. aka tee,
       NC Boxer Rescue Abuse

       HOWEDY People

       Here's WON of HOWER MENTAL CASES
       hurtin dogs and lying abHOWET it again.

       "I'm shocked that I shocked"

       "Tara O." <nos...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
       news:bh9f81$vrac2$1@ID-92443.news.uni-berlin.de...

       > Due to someone reprimanding Jar-Jar & the word
       > "rescue" in the post, I decided to read down and see
       > what he was spewing now. I was able to learn that
       > besides choking, pinching, crating, abusing and
       > murdering my dog, I also shocked her. I must be
       > suffering from amnesia.

       > Can someone point me to a post where I said
       > I shocked my dog, or any dog, or that I even
       > know *how* to use an e-collar....assuming I had one
       > which must have been stolen at the same time I lost
       > my memory.

       > One would think Jerry would be happy with the
       > "murder" part and all my other training sins but
       > evidently not.
       > --
       > Tara

       HOWEDY tara o.,

       You didn't HURT INTIMIDATE and MURFDER
        your own DEAD DOG Summer:

       Date: 2003-04-28 18:09:04 PST

       > "Tara O." wrote:

       > > Labs are a breed that are normally trained for
       > > field work with ear pinches, e-collars and other
       > > forms of physical interaction without making them
       > > fearful or aggressive.

       ==============

       From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
       Subject: Re: Dane hyper when passing other dogs
       Date: 2001-04-21 12:07:54 PST

       I think its pertinent to mention that I've never had
       any dogs who exhibited signs of aggression or were in
       any way, shape, or form resistent to whatever
       "training" I did with them.

       I would not feel comfortable relying on my past
       experience or a book to train a dog to stop biting,
       snapping or growling.
       --
       Tara O.

      ===================

       From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
       Subject: Re: Canine Behaviors For Dummies
       Date: 2001-06-11 19:42:23 PST

       "joshua" <jos...@ycsi.net> wrote in message
       news:9g3uoi$sc7$0@63.90.193.133...

       > I cant seem to understand why people believe prong
       > collars are cruel and inhumane. They do nothing more
       > than pinch, getting the attention of the animal.

       > Choke collars, on the other hand, do permanent
       > damage. They bruise the esophagus.

       > Shock collars will eventually destroy nerve endings,
       > much the same as electric fencing.

       Joshua, you have just reopened a can of worms
       that can quickly cause infestation here lol
       --
       Tara O.

       ===============

       From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
       Subject: Re: jerry howe
       Date: 2001-04-04 11:58:06 PST

       > People are tired of being abused and insulted simply
       > for saying they use a prong collar, or a choke
       > collar, or an e-collar, or a crate, etc. If you want
       > to LEARN more about dog training and dog behavior,
       > then listen to what they have to say, too.

       "I've never not listened to what people say here.
       I use a crate, am about to begin with a choke collar,
       I'm not the bad guy here." tara o.

       ======================

       From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
       Subject: Re: Electronic Training Collars
       Date: 2001-05-11 17:29:33 PST

       ""Twzl, Sligo and Roy Happy Together"" wrote

       > BTW, this is one of the frequent topics on obedience
       > email lists. When people say that they haven't used
       > corrections, it turns out that they feel that if
       > they do it, it's not a real correction. :)

       That makes sense in a weird sort of way. I don't
       honestly think that its humanly possible to train
       anyone or anything without correction. Its human
       nature to say 'no' or to stop a behavior by doing
       something. I used a tin can with coins to correct
       Summer's bad puppy behaviors and the cold shoulder
       to correct her other less desirable behaviors. I
       have said 'no' so many times that I probably sound
       like a broken record. Amie can attest to that
       lol.

       It seems to me that some people are automatically
       equating the term correction with punishment. I
       guess they can go hand in hand since my tin can
       wasn't something Summer liked. My ignoring her
       when she's misbehaving is also something she
       doesn't like. Therefore it can be viewed as
       punishment? And that term is 100% negative.

       Maybe if more people saw it as correction and not
       the total negative, they'd be less inclined to
       want to be PP.

       Don't know if the way I wrote that made sense, it
       makes sense in my head but then again the men with
       the white coats could come a'knockin at any
       moment.

       Tara O.

       ===================

       From: Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
       Subject: Re: Any hope? rage?
       Date: 2003-03-26 05:46:02 PST

       Yes I see and understand your point. There's no such
       thing as 100% vigilence 100% of the time IMO. You
       could call an e-fence company to find out if its
       possible to wire only your front door so that if she
       gets within a certain range of that front door the
       collar will start working. I'd think there would be a
       way to work that and it may be inexpensive to do
       so.

       There are also items called Scat Mats that you place
       in front of doors or any area you don't want your dog
       to proceed through. When stepping on the mat, it gives
       off a vibration, something which most dogs hate.
       They'll stay far away from the mats. I believe you can
       buy them from
       --
       Tara

       ==================

       Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
       Subject: Re: Need advice--barking dog
       Date: 2003-08-06 17:38:14 PST

       you could consider installing an invisible fence just
       inside the fence line so he cannot get too close. You
       could talk to your neighbor about splitting the cost
       of whichever alternative you both find most
       acceptable.
       --
       Tara

       =================

       From: Tara O. (nos...@yahoo.com)
       Subject: Re: Containment Collars
       Date: 2003-03-11 07:12:57

       I know people who have electric fences and it works
       very well for them. I know people who have them and
       whose dogs escape and refuse to come back in. From
       the details I know of all involved, I wouldn't use an
       e-fence on:

       1. An adult dog that wasn't raised with the fence from
           a puppy
       2. A dog with a high prey drive
       3. A very stubborn dog

       If I put my female out in an e-fence, the very first
       kid, cat, dog or squirrel she sees would have her
       bolting through the barrier shock or not. When she
       finally loses interest in whatever has caused her to
       leave and her adrenalin has diminished, she will think
       rationally and realize she's not willing to come back
       into the yard because she knows the shock would get
       her.

       you have a dog who just has to go after or
       up to any and everything that walks down the street
       then I'd definitely not recommend one of these
       systems. The people I know who it works for installed
       them when their dogs were pups so they were brought up
       trained to it. Two of the ones I know it didn't work
       for have adult adopted dogs who weren't raised
       with this kind of invisible barrier.

      ===================

       From: Tara O. (tara29...@yahoo.com)
       Subject: Re: escape artist, thunder, aggression
       questions Date: 2001-05-12 07:56:04 PST

       Since he got a taste of freedom and knows he can
       get out I doubt you'll be able to stop him short
       of tethering him or using a more sophisticated
       device like an e-fence but I wouldn't recommend
       going the electronic fence route without first
       doing your homework on the pros and cons of them
       and understand that they are not fool-proof.

       =========================

       MacKenzie's First Pinch Collar Class
       Date: 2003-07-08 13:54:19 PST

       I consider myself to be a pretty good basic obed.
       trainer of Boxers with some learned but not necessarily
       practiced, advanced training knowledge.

       I think this because not only have I worked
       with all the dogs I've had at my house but I'm also
       the one in charge of all the dogs in our rescue, their
       behavioral issues (identifying and working with),
       basic training (done in the foster home) and a host of
       other things. I'm the one who gives the advice and
       walks the foster volunteers through alot of things.

       Now I don't believe, for a second, that I would be
       successful at teaching basic obedience to other dogs
       in a class environment. Maybe I would but probably
       not. Other trainers with class experience may think I
       have no clue what I'm doing because my experience
       has been primarily hands-on and with only one breed.

       =========================

Val writes Monday, 6/3/02 (original post of 5/31):

Well, for what it's worth, I am praising without physical
contact and she does seem to listen better than when I
would praise with it.  I agree that it is a distraction.

Anyway, no more aggressive behaviors from her since I
started the Witts End.

"MaryBeth" <marbe...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message

news:3cfcdcfb$2_8@news.teranews.com...

From: Seeing Spots \(Val\) (Holme...@worldnet.att.net)
Subject: Re: Dear Wits End
Date: 2002-06-04 18:19:07 PST

HEY!!!

There is a Valid Valerie with a REAL Dalmatian
who is a real sweet dog with a few issues that I
am working to resolve after adopting her from a
shelter she spent 2 years in.

All I want is to get some decent help for my dog.

There is some decent stuff in Jerry's manual.
My dog has ACTUALLY been responding to
her training.  The deal is you have to seperate
your opinions and impressions from the guy
who is writing these posts and take from the
manual what you want.

Personally, I get a pretty good chuckle out of
the whole Jerry thing.  I have to say the guy
is pretty clever, you're letting him get under
your skin.

It makes for a very amusing game I think.

I'm sure he would agree, or he wouldn't be playing
everyday.  He also wouldn't be playing if he didn't
believe that his method of training weren't valid.

Perhaps I'll learn from my mistakes, but so far,
using the Wits' End, I have gotten my dalmatian
to listen to me, to look to me for direction, to wait
for me to say when.

I have changed her from an aggressive dog to
one who is willing to please her owner, willing
to listen, willing to assume her role in the pack.

The real Valerie M. Holmes speaking

P.s. Jerry, don't get any ideas about morphing
      into me, ok?

From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09

Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Beth wrote:

Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.

The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on
putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.

Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but
he was kook supreme ;-P  So I ignored him... no killfiles
with webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat
like Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning
anything.  At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.

By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already ran away.

Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find
my first post at "runaway dog message 30"  within that
thread is mention of the dogs taking off and being gone
for 2 days.  I stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy
was devastated that his dog was gone... Zelda came home
but not her mom.

The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.

Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes,  I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.

Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda.  It worked and I now have a great housedog!

I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to
lose another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with
little kids.  I and my boys still miss her.  Sometimes I
still look to see if she came home when we get back from
trips.  Maybe Peach would still have ran away... I don't
know and never will....

~misty

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:16990-3CAB1F8C-1@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

 I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
 not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her loss.

 I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of how you
 write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea that my using a
 shock collar could have any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay
 home. Up until I started using it my main concern had been keeping
 my dogs in their own yard.

 Once I started using the e-fence...well, then my concern became
 how to keep them from running off for days on end.

 I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the anti-
 shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

 I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now
 <g> A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
 doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
 the time. IOW a great companion and friend.

 Thanks Jerry!

=====================

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.ne

 We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
 Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no
 collars.

 Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to
 come back in the yard and would run for days. The
 last time, Peach didn't come back home.

 I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to
 train my dog. She is now border trained. A few
 minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in the
 yard.

 She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her
 from chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we
 walk around the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog. I will never rely on an
electronic collar to keep my dog in our yard again.

The price was too high:-(

~misty

============

MaryBeth, QUEEN OF THE RPD* MENTALLY
ILL ALLSTARS MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*

Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses. I think it's
only fair that we have an accurate list of who is and
who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.

MaryBeth
MVP (most valuable psycho)

Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid, has suffered from or been:

                    suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of
                    PMS, mood swings, turned into a hermit,
                    bloated, just real angry, hubby afraid of
                    her, high blood pressure, divorced,
                    "raving bitch" "zoloft zombie" for four
                    years, "living through layers and layers
                    of gauze," chain smoker, buzzing, weight
                    gain, fatigue, terrible dry mouth, dull
                    headaches, fuzzy brain, lack of
                    concentration..etc.
                    severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
                    ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you
                    name it...etc...

    MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
    aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
    aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell

                    "I know for a fact I went thru years of
                    being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
                    being self centered, being self pitying,
                    you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
                    everyone in my path."

                    "<G> I do know the power of meds,
                    especially on a long term basis, and it's
                    not pretty. You become another person, if
                    it's not the correct med for you.

                    --All the best,
                      MaryBeth

                    "Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
                    Rheumatologist told me that taking
                    Ultram with it can cause seizures."

                    "I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
                    times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
                    'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
                    my doc next Friday to test for
                    menopause."

                      --MaryBeth

                    "I noticed that antidepressants cut
                    libido into the dead zone and I had no
                    real emotions, like not laughing at funny
                    stuff, couldn't cry either.....except about
                    my suicidal thoughts (but at the time I
                    thought there was no other way out)."

                      --MaryBeth

                    "Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid
                     today. I talked with RE and pharmacist re:
                    zoloft 50 mg daily) and ineraction with
                    Clomid.

                    They reported none. Not sure about the
                    prozac tho. Gonna poat a new message to
                    intorduce myself :)"

                      --MaryBeth <still feeling like herself>
                      <G>

                    "I wasted about 10 years of my life, and
                    lost many many treasured ppl and things.
                    Please don't do the same.
                    (((((((SCOUT))))))))))

                      --MaryBeth

                   "Slowly but surely my depression got worse
                   and worse. They put me on meds for it, and
                   all along kept telling me to wait on the
                   TKR, as 'it really wasn't that
                   bad.....yet". HA!" The depression got so
                   bad, and lots of other
                   things happened and my ex and I would up
                   divorced four years after our move. It was
                   horrible. The hardest thing I have eve
                   gone thru"

                       --MaryBeth

From: BNTDO...@aol.com
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! -  "Owners Should Always
Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."

Dear Jerry,

It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.

Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
putting him down are impressed with him.

I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
do his nails. All 4 feet.

My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.

He even tried to kiss a child the other day.

Major break through.

This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.

So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training is
Do No Harm.

The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first rule.

Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was diagnosed
aggressive and he is going to stay alive and by my side where he
belongs.

Thank you so much.
Kay

========================

From: <Caninesanctu...@aol.com>
To: <BNTDO...@aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 2:49 PM
Subject: Jerry the jerk howe

From: BNTDO...@aol.com
To: Caninesanctu...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Jerry the jerk howe

I have to strongly disagree that Jerry is a jerk. I am a
dog trainer and I have been for almost 30 years. I
believe strongly in positive reinforcement. My youngest
was trained using treats and praise.

My oldest how ever was not trained that way I am ashamed
to say. The result a very dangerous dog. He has problems
with barrier and dominance aggression. A year ago he put
a hole in my leg that took weeks to heal.

When the vet and all of my friends advocated putting him
down I found Jerry's website. I was looking for a natural
way to calm my dog and train him all over again as well.

You say Jerry is a jerk well I have talked to him on the
phone and consulted him about his training methods.
I really grilled him before I even considered using his
methods.

He loves dogs. Using his methods my Head Hunter is
now a very sweet dog. I get kisses instead of growls.
When he growls or even looks like he is going to bark
I tell him what a good dog he is and right away he shuts
up, looks at me like I'm nuts. But doesn't try to eat anyone.

I am happy to say that the vet thinks I have him on major
drugs. I don't! I still use a muzzle on him when I have to
take him to iffy places. But hey I know he in now a sugar.
And the most important thing he is happy again.

It's a free country and you are entitled to your opinion. I
have mine.

Sincerely
Kay

------------------------------­­-----

"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com> wrote in message

news:3c317fe4.0301072210.7f7ef069@posting.google.com...

You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.

===================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives.  I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have.  The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great.  I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades!  I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose.  He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times  I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibilty of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

------------------------------­­-------

HOWEDY Group,

Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had
using JERRY'S MANUAL

1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive,
pulled on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought
between each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual,
they were calm, friends, my companions.

2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.

3) My FRIENDS dogs  2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!

Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !

4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!

5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON  A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !

Quite amazing to - I thought they were just
dull coloured dogs, but after I had removed
the fear and anxiety their hairs coloured up
amazingly.

6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and
night - 3 DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she
now DROPS it when u ASK her to!

BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!

Nevyn

============

It's ALL documented and archived FOREVER in The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives on Google and
other fine news group search engines <{) ; ~ ) >

The Amazing Puppy Wizard ONLY works with what HE'S
presented in blankman and white and html. We call
THAT in the scientific community, CASE HISTORY
DATA <{); ~ ) >

                   Chronic DIS-EASE
        PROVING The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME <{);~ ) >

HOWEDY People,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard got no comment
on the medical treatment of your dog's chronic
DIS-EASES EXXXCEPT to say DOGS DIE FROM
THIS STUFF.

You've read The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
so you probably know there's a very real likliHOOD
that your dog's chronic ear infections are similiar in
nature to those of professor SCRUFF SHAKE'S little
chronically ill dog Maxie who is DUE to come DHOWEN
with yet another BHOWET of SYMPTOMS due to
FHOWEL weather causing cabin fever which usually
brings abHOWET a case of obedience training!

Clicker training INCREASES anXXXIHOWESNESS and TEACHES MISTRUST.

Corrections traininng INCREASES anXXXIHOWESNESS and TEACHES MISTRUST.

Crate training INCREASES anXXXIHOWESNESS and TEACHES MISTRUST.

Spay / neutering CAUSES INCREASED anXXXIHOWESNES and MISTRUST.

AnXXXIHOWENESS and MISTRUST causes STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME
<{); ~ ) >

The Amazing Puppy Wizard URGES you to READ
HIS TEN STEP REHABILITATION program offered
to professor SCRUFF SHAKE for his little dog
Maxie The Magnificent FuriHOWESLY Obsessive
Compulsive Masturbator's CHRONIC STRESS INDUCED
AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASES aka The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME <{); ~ ) >

Then ASK YOURSELF HOWE you handled and trained
your dog for ordinary HOWEstraining and obedience.
ASK YOURSELF HOWE many times a day do you ordinarily
tell your dog "NO!" or otherWIZE intimidate or
FORCE CON-TROLL of your dog for ANY reason.

ASK YOURSELF HOWE you handle him on lead and consider
any crating or bribing to elicit or force CON-TROLL
of behaviors and you will likely see five or ten DAILY,
almost insignificant instances of random STRESS from
corrections, pulling while leash walking or anXXXIHOWESNESS
from fence running and barking or digging to relieve
anXXXIHOWESNESS.

That's HOWE COME dog's IMMUNE SYSTEMS compromise
offering VERY SIMILAR although WILDLY, WIDELY
RANGING, CHRONIC, STRESS INDUCED SYMPTOMS, every
thing from LAMENESS and CRUCIATE LIGAMENT ruptures
and degenerative myelopathies and ENDOCRINE DIS-EASES
to SEIZURES, OCD's to CATARACTS BLINDNESS and even
DENTAL DIS-EASE and "ALLERGIES" and "SPAY INCONTINENCE"

MOST of HOWER dog lover's dog's got a case of chronic
sumpthin or other for THE SAME SAME SAME SAME REASONS.

These HUGE PERCENTAGES of CHRONICALLY ILL
and FEAR AGGRESSIVE SHY and SUBMISSIVE dogs
are NOT NORMAL illnesses and behaivors..

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has over forty
years field observation of problem dogs that
SEZ the HUGE PERCENTAGES of DEATHLY
ILL DOGS amongst the regular posters who've
been here FOR YEARS are NOT COIN-CIDENTAL.

Your reply may PROVE IT at least to you and
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. THAT'S HOWE
COME the DOG LOVERS you're askin are
gonna KILLFILE YOU if you REPLY.

THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
SEZDECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS,
as YOU'VE SEEN in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
Archives.

Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A

Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a PRECISE
SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100% CONSISTENT
NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for all handlers and
all dogs in all fields or utilities and
behaviors all over the Whole Wild World <{) ; ~ )  >