Canine Intervertebral Disk Disease

Canine Intervertebral Disk Disease - help!

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AJDupree - 22 Nov 2005 14:58 GMT

Please reply if you have dealt with this problem with your dog,
regardless of whether you had them on meds only or had to resort to
surgery. If they recovered with only meds, please describe their
recovery and how long it took. If we have to resort to surgery, our vet

would be referring us to Dr. Pierre Bichsel at Michigan Veterinary
Specialists in Southfield, MI, which is about a 3-hour drive from where

we live.

I have a 10-year-old Lab-mix female dog who is our "baby." Symptoms
started last Tuesday; she wouldn't lower her head to the floor to pick
up a treat. By Tuesday night she was standing in place, quivering all
over, panting, and crying. We paged the vet and he said it sound like
pain, maybe back-related, and to give her 2 aspirin and call Wednesday.

She finally calmed down that night and laid down; woke up at 3:00 to
the sound of her drinking some water. I got up and she seemed fine.
Wanted to go outside, came back in, acted normal again. I stayed home
Wednesday morning to monitor her and she still did not want to lower
her head to the floor from a standing position. Called vet's office
back and made an appt for 3:15. DH left work early and took her in. She

seemed alright. They took x-rays and did some flexing and other tests.
Said it looked like a vertebra in her neck (C7) was shifted and
compressing a disc in her neck. He didn't give it an official name, but

after doing some internet research I believe she has Canine
Intervertebral Disk Disease. Gave us some Tramadol pills to give her if

she was having a "bad day". 2 hours later, my dog couldn't walk at all.

Paged the vet again and he said to start her on the pills immediately
and to bring her back the next day. DH stayed home from work Thursday
and took her in. She still couldn't walk. Vet gave her a Cortisone shot

and also gave us 3 weeks' worth of Cortisone pills (Dexamethasone). He
tested her for deep pain by pinching her toe, and she DID react, which
is a good thing. DH also stayed home Friday. We had hoped over the
weekend we'd see some improvement. Nothing. I went up and got my mom (2

hours away) on Sunday. I had been planning on going to get her anyway,
for this week for Thanksgiving. I took a vacation day yesterday and
stayed home with the dog. Still no improvement. Called the vet's office

yesterday and asked him "is this normal???" and he basically said that
it could be, depending on the dog, etc. Couldn't really tell me
anything. Said he'd be able to tell more today at her follow-up appt.
Said he might be able to see progress that we can't, by doing reflex
tests, etc. My mom is home with the dog right now; I'm going home at
lunch to turn her over and clean her off, then DH will be leaving work
at 2:30 so he can get home, do the same, and get her bundled into the
truck for her 4:30 appt. I think I'm going to leave a bit early and
meet him at the vet's.

Last week I was feeling pretty optimistic, but after 5 full days of
medicine, both of which are supposed to bring down the inflammation,
and no noticeable improvement, I'm pretty much a basket case right now.

And it sucks because I so want to be home with her. My mom can't get
down on the floor to pet her and lay with her, which is sometimes the
only way to calm her down and get her to relax and go back to sleep.
But employers, of course, aren't as understanding or easy-going when it

comes to taking time off for a dog...."it's only a dog", after all. My

husband has already used up his last vacation day until April; I have 3

left, I think, thru the end of the year. I just don't know what's going

to happen if she has to have surgery; we can't just take unlimited time

off for 2-3 weeks or more until she can walk again. But I don't know
what to do if it's not safe to leave her home alone, and I wouldn't
want to do that anyway. At least my mom has offered to stay an extra
week or two if that's what it takes right now.

I would almost just take her over now and get the darn surgery so she
can get fixed up, and not play this waiting game with the meds anymore.

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Kiva - 23 Nov 2005 00:52 GMT

Similar situation (here is my post from ~ week ago)

"Hi,

About 2 months ago after taking a walk, my 5 yo staffy refused to jump up into the backseat of the car. On returning home he
collapsed on his bed and refused to get up even for food (which is NOT like him - he will usually do anything for the smallest scrap
of food). When we finally forced him to get up and go to bathroom he was very unsteady on his back feet, falling and collapsing all
over the place. It looked like he didn't have any control or know where his back legs were.

Anyways down the track we got cat scans done as after vet and spinal clinic visits, we narrowed it down to disc problems, tuma, or
some sort of growth. The results showed it to be disc protrusions in 3 places on the spine - the diagnosis is given below.

These days he seems a lot better. He walks and runs as normal (we try to stop him climbing stairs, jumping or getting too excited
but it is extremely difficult as he is a very active dog). Occasionally he will lose stepping with one of his back legs and fall but
far from all he doesn't seem to be in any pain and doesn't understand why we have taken all his toys away or wont take him for long
walks. All his toilet functions are fine.

At the moment, we have started acupuncture (to see if that will help) but will consider anything, surgery as a last resort.

Just looking for any advice, comments or words from owners with dogs with similar conditions.

Thanks

Diagnosis below.

"Technique: Under light sedation, multislice helical axial scans were performed through the lower thoracic and lumbar spine with
coronal and sagittal reconstructions.

Findings: There is a mild to moderate scoliosis convex to the left. There are 7 non-rib-bearing vertebrae which are labelled
consecutively L1 to L7. In the second last thoracic level, there is a moderately large broad-based central disc protrusion causing
moderate compression of the cord. The intervertebral foramina are preserved.

In the last thoracic level, there is a mild broad-based calcified central disc protrusion causing mild indentation upon the cord
without frank compression.

At L7/S1, there is a moderate diffuse annular bulging together with a moderate broad-based posterior disc protrusion. This is
causing mild compression of thecal sac and narrowing of both intervertebral foramina.

The remaining lumbar are intact.

No focal bony lesion detected. The facet joints are intact. There is no central canal stenosis."

Signature

Regards, Kiva."

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Kiva - 23 Nov 2005 01:02 GMT

I have spoken to a few people regarding surgery for similar procedures and have a range of response which does not really help.

For Type-1 disc protrusions, surgery is usually successful
For Type-2, it is less so and can even make matters worse.

For any surgery, the dog will most likely NOT improve but surgery will stop the condition/symptoms from getting worse.

This is as far as I understand it so far and I may have got some things wrong so definitely suggest you do your own research as will
I.

You can contact me at ' kiva at myrealbox dot com '

Hope things improve for you.

Signature

Regards, Kiva.

> Please reply if you have dealt with this problem with your dog,
> regardless of whether you had them on meds only or had to resort to
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> I would almost just take her over now and get the darn surgery so she
> can get fixed up, and not play this waiting game with the meds anymore.

Reply to this Message

AJDupree - 25 Nov 2005 06:21 GMT

Well, things did not work out.

I called MVS in Southfield Tuesday after I posted. Talked to a girl in
the neurology dept there and explained what had happened to that point.
She suggested taht we not even go to the 4:30 appt., and instead head
over there immediately. Due to the fact that she hadn't walked/had any
use of her back legs for 5 days and meds were not showing any signs of
working. So we took off work at Noon and came home and got her, stopped
at our vet's and got her history, and headed toward Detroit. Got there
around 5 and they wheeled her in on a gurney. After a short time a
doctor came in and told us they did not think the prognosis was very
good. She showed no signs of deep pain or reflexes in her hind legs at
all. Could be a couple different things, which they could pinpoint more
if we were to proceed with testing/diagnostics, and then surgery if we
wanted. So we approved the diagnostics, schedule for the next day,
Wednesday (yesterday). They called us at the hotel around 10:30
yesterday to let us know they were going to start the tests in about an
hour, and that her condition seemed to have progressed a bit overnight.
She had a slight fever, and her front legs now seemed to be a bit
rigid. So we packed up and went to the vet. hospital to wait it out.
They came out around 2:30 and took us into a room. They did multiple
x-rays, as well as a myelogram and CT scans of her back. The problem
was NOT in her cervical vertebra at all, as our vet had told us - it
was in her thoractic vertebra lower down. They would not know 100% for
sure unless they actually did surgery and cut her, but there were a few
different options that they felt were the cause. They could see a large
lesion area on her back vertebra that covered 3-4 disks. Their best
assumption was that it was myelomalacia - death of spinal cord tissue.
And when that happens, it can continue to get worse and die off, and
eventually spread up the spinal cord and eventually affect her front
legs and eventually cause death by respiratory failure. Another
possible cause was FCE - Fibrocartilaginous Embolism - basically a
stroke of the spinal cord. Another option with a bad outcome. Or it
could even be something like a tumor that was putting pressure on the
cord and irreversibly damaged it. None of the options were good at all.
Due to the amount of time that had passed, and the fact taht she had no
deep pain perception anymore, they held out very little hope that she
would recover, and that it would actually get worse. We had talked
about it the night before, and decided that if the prognosis was good,
even if she didn't recover her hind legs, that we could do what we had
to, by getting a K9 Cart, manually expressing her bladder, etc., to
keep her with us. But the doctors did not think surgery would
accomplish anything in the end and the tissue would continue to die
off. So after a gut-wrenching meeting with the docs we decided to have
her put to sleep. She was already under general anesthesia for the
tests they had done; it was just a matter of giving her the injection
to stop her heart. So we went in to the ICU where they had her on a
gurney with a warming blanket on her, and stayed with her and talked to
her and petted her, telling her what a GOOD GIRL she was, and after
about 30 minutes or so we were finally ready and they gave her the
final injection. We stayed with her a bit longer afterwards - I just
didn't want to leave her. I knew it'd be the last time I'd be able to
pet her soft fur. Let me tell you - that was a loooong ride home from
Detroit last night. They are going to cremate her and send us her
cremains, as well as a cast pawprint they took of her paw. Our house
feels so empty now...everywhere I look I imagine her there. She's a
PART of this house. She was only 10 and had no other health problems.
She was our baby - we don't have kids, so she essentially WAS our kid.
She had so much personality for a dog - I swear she thought of herself
as a person. I miss her soooo much. :(

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diddy - 25 Nov 2005 14:14 GMT

I'm so terribly sorry

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buglady - 25 Nov 2005 17:50 GMT

they did not think the prognosis was very

> good. She showed no signs of deep pain or reflexes in her hind legs at
> all.

They could see a large

> lesion area on her back vertebra that covered 3-4 disks. Their best
> assumption was that it was myelomalacia - death of spinal cord tissue.
> And when that happens, it can continue to get worse and die off, and
> eventually spread up the spinal cord and eventually affect her front
> legs and eventually cause death by respiratory failure.

So after a gut-wrenching meeting with the docs we decided to have

> her put to sleep

........I'm so sorry. What a blow. May you think of her often with
gratitude for the time she spent with you.

my condolences
buglady
take out the dog before replying

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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / November 2005

Canine Intervertebral Disk Disease - help!