Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / December 2005

HOWEDY BigHairyBeanBag,

That certainly brings images of hot toddies, missleTOE an sugar plums
to mind.
Funny things we might do with enough hot buttered rum in HOWER tum tum
tum.., eh BigHariyBeanBag???

Well, let's get  on with the funny freak parade, eh?:.

CITES PLEASE?

That's IRRELEVENT and MEANINGLESS on a MENTAL WARD.

CITES PLEASE?

                           A DOG Is A Dog;
                         As A KAT Is A KAT;
                      As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
                     As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
              As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES
          As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.

PSSSST? They call YOU BigHairyBeanBag. People who
live in glass HOWEses shouldn't throw stones <{) ; ~ ) >

Are they kindly folks like yourself BigHairyBeanBag?

Unfortunately The Amazing Puppy Wizard gotta delete WON
group on accHOWENT of Google's limits.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard will meet you unda the MisleTOE
BigHairyBeanBag.

Can't. It's OCCUPIED.

"And Merry Christmas to you," Bill O'Reily.

Well BigHairyBeanBag, The Amazing Puppy Wizard got a
QUESTION for you? Would you accept bein Drum Major
an lead the parade? Here's a couple tips:

Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:43:01 -0000
Local: Sun, Feb 16 2003 10:43 am
Subject: Re: Walking backwards in front of me
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original

lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42 bomb vice president) wrote in
<20030215065305.10743.00000...@mb-bk.aol.com>:

Yeah, could be he's keepin an eye on your hands cause he's
afraid you'll smack him. He don't know the difference between
a smack and a bop... like professora gingold sez: "chin chuck
absolutely doesn't mean slap." You know what she means, but
the dog still thinks the both of you are word weasel lying
maggots:

From: lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42 bomb vice president)
Subject: Re: Otherwise lovely dog hard nipping back of
daughter's leg.

Are you sure they recommend a smack? Me, I take the edge of my
index finger and bop Eddie on the nose with it. (and only in
extreme situations). This gets his attention fast! He knows he
did something wrong then.

=================================

Ready BigHairyBeanBag???  Go ahead, say it while walkin backwards:

The Puppy Wizard

From: jho...@bellsouth.net (The Puppy Wizardr
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:43:01 -0000
Subject: Re: Walking backwards in front of me

lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42 bomb vice president) wrote in
<20030215065305.10743.00000...@mb-bk.aol.com>:

Yeah, could be he's keepin an eye on your hands cause he's
afraid you'll smack him. He don't know the difference between
a smack and a bop... like professora gingold sez: "chin chuck
absolutely doesn't mean slap." You know what she means, but
the dog still thinks the both of you are word weasel lying maggots:

From: lot...@aol.comaol.com (Lots42 bomb vice president)
Subject: Re: Otherwise lovely dog hard nipping back of
daughter's leg.

Are you sure they recommend a smack? Me, I take the edge of my
index finger and bop Eddie on the nose with it. (and only in
extreme situations). This gets his attention fast! He knows he
did something wrong then.

=================================

O.K. BigHairyBeanBag, say it NHOWE:

Parade, attention!

Forward, MARCH!!!

"I love a parade, the S-HOWEND  of the drums ba.. daa.. ba..bupup.. ..
pador!... Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long..
badaa..dididp..duh..dat...
tada!!! You can have a helper wield the stick, dub..dup..duh.dup..du.
dup. trada.. .. ..or do it yourself.du. .. dip. da.. .. dip .. ..
dahdah.
Don't make the stick any more obvious  than it has to be. da.. da..
da.
da..... With the dog at heel, toss the  dummy about three feet in front

of the dog. budup.. ..du.. .. du.. .. duh daah  With your hand on the
collar and ear, say, "fetch."

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.

Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog, sometimes not hitting it.
Again, you want to make the dog think that by going fast it can
avoid the stick.

As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch.

Usually not many sessions are needed (maybe 3-6). When the dog is
digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without any
ear pinch, you are finished--" lying frosty dahl <:() ; ~ )  >

HOWEDY dallygirl,

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has pointed HOWET HOWER DOG LOVER'S
MENTAL HEELTH CASE HISTORIES which have CAUSED HOWER DOG
LOVERS to be LIARS COWARDS DOG ABUSERS to COMPENSATE for
their shame fear guilt which perpetuate their fragile defective egos,
weak
fearful minds and inferiority complexes <{) : ~ )  >

No matter HOWE much you DENY IT the FACTS REMAIN, THE FACTS:

dallygirl wrote:

The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ "NO BONES".

That AIN'T YOUR FAULT, dallygirl.

Don't blame yourself dallygirl, you couldn't have known
any better till NHOWE.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ abuse is a FAMILY PROBLEM, dallygirl.
MOST of your PALS here abHOWETS GOT THE SAME PROBLEM.

That was KINDLY of him, dallygirl.

You probably WISH he'd taken you HOWET FIRST, eh dallygirl?

The PAIN NEVER ENDS while you're ALIVE, dallygirl. ASK anyWON here.

Did you SAVE the NOTE, dallygirl?

No matter anyHOWE, it's INDELLIBLY INSCRIBED in your MIND, dallygirl

The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ YOU AIN'T GOT no "COGNITIVE
DIS-EASE" dallygirl, you've MADE YOURSELF SICK JUST LIKE
HOWE the rest of these lying dog abusing punk thug coward active
acute chronic long term incurable MENTAL CASES have done to
themselves and their own dogs, dallygirl.

NOT TO WORRY dallygirl, you're in group therapy NHOWE.
You might just wanna skip over the dog abuse below and
review your pal diana aka lush's SIMILAR parental abuse:

From: Bethgsd (beth...@aol.comnojunk)
Subject: Re: failed attempt to rehabilitate
aggressive dog

Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2002-04-11 16:42:08 PST

Gwen wrote:

 > Absolutely! And I personally find it somewhat
 > insulting that the comparisons of this were made.
 > Since I do have epilepsy myself and it is a very
 > life threatening disease when one is not on
 > medication. Very.
 >
 > Gwen

[Bethgsd Responds]

[GWEN, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR a.s...
CHEMICAL IMBALANCES CAN BE LIFE THREATENING]

Well, Gwen I suffer from severe depression which
is controlled by a particular SSRI and I find it
insulting that you don't feel that chemical
imbalances can be lifethreatening.  No, I don't
go into status but I've attempted  to commit
suicide a few too many times.  And no, those
weren't little "cries for help" they were honest
to G-D attemts to get out of the pain.

So get your head out of your a.s and realize that
chemical imbalances can be as life threatening,
if in a different way, than electrical misfiring.

Beth  [aka Bethgsd]

not to be confused with the non crazy
as far as we know, BethF who is ONLY
a LIAR and DOG ABUSER):

  "Beth F" <d...@spamthis.alaska.com> wrote in message:
  "Whatever motivates the dog, but I daresay most of
  the dogs I have in classes just aren't that interested
  in praise."

    "BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
    wrote in message news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...
    "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatri...@adelphia.net>
     wrote in message

     Kyle,  FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
     and i often call my little dog the turd, because
     he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
     would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
     matter of personality.

     Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
     step on him once. Seriously.

<news:20020610173326.01953.00000597@mb-fx.aol.com>...

 Keep in mind that everything he says that  the regular
 posters of this ng do to their  dogs are lies.

All of it. Every last bit.

Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?

Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
would see denials when everyone has Jerry
killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
let alone respond to them.

BethF wrote:

Oh C'mon Beth, don't be a spoilsport. He's got to be
able to grasp at *something*.....and straws are SO
hard to come by these days.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise," BINACA bethFIST <{) ; ~ ) >

From: lucyaa...@claque.net (Lucy A. Afar)
Date: 23 Oct 2004 03:12:46

Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop

BINACA bethFIST aka child:
"Child" <d...@alaskaSPAMFREE.com> wrote in message

<news:10n8965dvrg2ra5@corp.supernews.com>...

Accidentally? Yes. Intentionally? Never.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise," BINACA bethFIST <{); ~ ) >

I do have dogs, and I'm not lying. The way it was
phrased in your post, I understood it as you were
advising the other person to step on the dog
INTENTIONALLY - as a "best way to teach him to stay
away". I'd be too glad to learn that I was wrong,
because you were the last person I'd have expected to
be cruel to her own dogs.

The part about spraying aversives in the dog's face is
still something that I can't understand: are you really
doing that to your dogs? And is that better than praising
the poor creature when barking, thus validating his dog behavior?

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise," BINACA bethFIST <{); ~ ) >

I'm not Jerry, and you know it.

I have no interest in promoting Jerry's method -except
that it works. FOR MY DOGS, yes - and much as Ilike to
think that my dogs are special, reason prompts that they
are not THAT special, or not in this particular way.

I did try praising Bonnie for barking, and by simply
going to check what was going on, by validating her
behavior (she was just warning me that someone was
coming, she was a GOOD DOG, for that) and telling her
that she was a "good dog" was NOT supposed to
reinforce the BARKING, but the idea that I knew why
she was doing what she was doing, and that it was OK.
And the fact is that this DID put an end to obsessive
barking, almost instantly. So it did NOT increase the
incidence of barking, Beth - just the contrary.

I did this experiment with my dog, because it couldn't
have made things worse than they already were - she
was barking like mad each time when someone was
passing in front of our door. And I was curious
to see if this strange method worked, in such an
extreme case. I don't expect you to believe me, but to
claim that it would do this or that without checking
and dismissing as "lies" all the reports of people
like me who have tried and found out that the method
worked is really not what I'd expect from an
intelligent honest person. Especially when the best
YOU can come with in order to solve this problem, is
the binaca solution.

From: "BethF" <d...@alaskaREMOVETHIS.com> -
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2001
Subject: Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...

Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in
message news:81q1ptk2so6qf73kbv9smbpe21acca2q6c@4ax.com...

.

Actually, the most common use of this technique (and
it is quite common) is with TABASCO sauce either mixed
with water in a spray bottle or on a rag that you can
stick in the dogs mouth instead of spraying (after our
experience I would suggest this method if I was going
to use this technique again). My dog likes tabasco so
that didnt' work for us. Binaca was suggested as an
alternative from a very well respected dog trainer
from the lower 48, however I don't think she counted
on his flailing his head in a desperate attempt to get
away from the sprayer causing me to miss.

His vet reassured me that the binaca could do no serious
damage, nor did it seem to hurt him badly - he just wiped
his eye for a minute or so until I rinsed it out (which he
seemed more pissed about than the actual spray).

We went to the vet immediately who called me a
jewish mother and sent us home.

but I think that your assessment of to handle barking
is based on your non-barking breeds - in some dogs the
drive to bark is REALLY big, and it takes some big
time discouragement to get rid of it. To be quite
frank after trying months and months of different
techniques the binaca was the only thing that worked.
I wouldn't discredit the concept (although I do
most certainly discredit the binaca sprayer as a good
idea in case of issues like mine).

Here's our dog lover lush, before she found out she
was a Thug. Since then, she's been organizing complain
to Jerry's ISP campaigns:

Subject: "On A Mission To Hound Me Out After My Statement. That
Statement Being That I Actually Like Jerry And His Stuff," lush

From: Diana (diana_pete.attw...@lineone.ne­t)
Subject: whoa - very long but you asked for it.

Date: 2001-11-10 05:19:06 PST

Cheers, Sionnch,

I was getting a bit paranoid there and I did think you were
just all on a mission to hound me out after my statement.
I've got some time now so I will answer you questions as
it so obviously caused great upset amongst you all.

That statement being that I actually like Jerry and his stuff.

Read carefully if you interested, because I know how easy it
is to miss things, grab the wrong end of the stick etc &
misinterpret... done it myself a million times. It also goes
quite in depth about the dogs I lived with as a child and the
methods my parents used to train both the dogs and us.

I barely remember the Shelti my parents had when I was born
-apparently she died when I was about 2, but we got Ivan the
Samoyed (visually - not pure) when I was 3(ish). I do remember
even going to pick him up as a pup and there were little
fluffy baby dogs everywhere... some were black and I wanted a
black one but Dad said we had to have a white one because
Samoyeds were supposed to be white and we wanted it to look
like we had a pure samoyed - don't hang me here - remember it
clear as day but I was only about 3. We lived in Vancouver
then.. if anyone's interested. I loved Ivan - but he chewed
our toys. This made Dad mad so he would hit him so hard he
screamed and throw him down the stairs. Tony (brother) was a
toddler - but I remember that I had to look out for any  toys,
both mine and his to make sure they would not be chewed and
those that were got, got hidden. His temper and excessive
punishments were not just for Ivan. I remember clearly one
morning being up before my parents and playing in the kitchen,
pretending to be mum, as kids do... but got caught with the
electric carving knife.  A leather belt across the backside
hurts. Even now I can not understand how he could have done
that to a 3-4 year old child... or a pup.

When I was four my parents decided that they wanted to come
back to England and I remember hating the little girl who came
with her dad to take Ivan away and being told he would be her
dog now.

We came o England & stayed at Nan's for some time. Nan had
Sheba- beautiful but elderly Rough Collie. Was so passive and
quiet . Then one day I fell down the stairs. As I tumbled
down, she came up and caught me... at four I was feeling more
and more fearful of people but safe in the company of dogs.

We moved out of Nan's and in to our own home. It was a large
house & had a huge garden & was opposite a large public park -
I think I was about 51/2 when Dad brought home Tisha - a
Borzoi pup. She wet & messed the floor and was punished by
having her nose pushed in it, a slipper across the backside so
she yelped and being thrown outside, I didn't like this - I
was sure they didn't have to do this to her. Dad loved her -
she was his dog and we had to ask permission to touch her. He
liked his big car ~ posh dog image.

The garden was big, the fence was big - the park opposite was
fun the road in between was fast. Tisha got big and took a big
jump. She made 18 months.

The discussions went on - Dad wanted a dog for himself, so it
was decided that they were going to get an Old English
Sheepdog for them and a Basset for us kids... then we went
around to loads of breeders and saw loads of pups - dogs being
very my passion I took it all in. I remember the Old English
Sheepdog lady telling Mum why she thought we shouldn't have
one with 2 young children, and so it was decided that while
Dad made up his mind what he wanted, Mum would take us to the
RSPCA to choose a dog for us.

We picked up Sadie in 1976 - 4 months old JRT x. I was 7 - I
was unhappy at school, I had never settled in,at first being
shy of my different accent and because I was a timid child
anyway. Sadie was my olny friend. Sadie messed the floor,
Sadie got her nose shoved in it, and the whack - Sadie did not
learn - she was so scared of people coming down the stairs in
the morning that she wet & messed the floor - so they hit her.
I would try and sneak down and tidy up before they came down -
I would get hit for being soft on her.

Sadie pulled on the lead. I never mentioned mum was a horse
fanatic ~ she showed me that the way to stop Sadie pulling was
to snap a shoot from a tree and use it as a whip on the dogs
nose. I didn't like it but I knew no better - I was
desperately looking for a better method - it was my job to
walk her after school.

Barbara  Woodhouse came on tv... my love of dogs and all I had
learnt about breeds now extended and I learnt about choke
collars - much preferable to the whip - I also saw how she
used methods such as copying the dogs play stance and how she
had commended someone for using my trick of rubbing a dogs
chest to calm it - I was dead proud because I had already
learnt that for myself.

Sadie was a JRT x. She was also as afraid of my bad tempered
and unreasonable father as I was. We spent so much time curled
together, cowering behind the sofa.

I had always thought it would be great if I could teach Sadie
to speak. She got pretty good at the jumps and obedience games
we played in the garden and I was learning bout how to ask her
to do these things using enthusiasm as the motivation. 'Look,
come on, we can do this...' I wish my parents could have
looked out of the window to see this.

I was 9 when Mum got taken in to hospital to have Jonny.
Something had gone wrong and she was in there for 3 months.
Sadie went to kennels, Me & Tony went to Nan's.

Sheba had long since gone and she had Bridie, another rough
collie. Bridie had a long, long pedigree - she also had a
long, long nose... so long she could not close her mouth
properly. For a young dog she may have looked beautiful but
she couldn't / wouldn't do anything.I would walk her and
should float along behind - I had always dreamt of breeding
Old English Mastiffs when I was grown up. I decided I no
longer liked the idea of breeding beautiful pedigrees.

Jonny was born and we all came home. Sadie loved the baby. She
would, at any time when we were together, take my hand in her
mouth and take me to the crib, which she would stand up
against, watching. I realised that this was my childhood dream
- Sadie was talking to me. I realised then too that she had
been all along. It was my fault for not listening.

Dad's business started going wrong. We had to sell the house.
Sadie went to kennels & we moved around in rented
accommodation for a while. Sadie was my only friend and I
missed her. Eventually we found a place where  Sadie could
come. It was great to have her back but she had been
disturbed. She had never been totally housetrained - due to
her fear of punishment - Dad's failing business made him even
worse & his bad temper was becoming more & more viscous. Sadie
messed the floor, Sadie jumped on the kitchen counter & stole
food, Sadie's punishments were beatings so bad I thought he'd
kill her. I would scream & cry, I would get some to.

Eventually, by the time I was 10 we found a cottage they could
afford and Dad started his business again. He struggled &
struggled and was becoming nastier and nastier. We all just
kept out of the way. Mum & Dad would go out to the Pub and I
would look after my brothers - while they were out we were
fine. Luckily they were out a lot. I was 14 when Dulcie, my
sister was born. I couldn't see why they did this - I was
already pretty much the only mother Jonny knew, Dad's business
was failing again and we had to sell the house again. Rented
accommodation again - no dogs. Sadie went to stay at Dad's
business property for a while. It was a fair way away and I
went with Dad to work on Saturdays when I could - but he
didn't want me there. I saw her loose her 'terrierness' and
she looked so sad - then Mum took her to kennels, this time
for good. I was completely broken by this but could do nothing
else.

Things got worse & to be honest I blocked most of my memory of
the in-between years. I jumped into the first job I could get
to get me away from home as soon as possible & not so much
chose a career as made an escape. I left home but was so hard
up I worked day & night just for rent and food. I was doing
hairdressing - poor choice for a young girl nigh on phobic of
people. It did help bring me back out of myself but I knew I
was playing the wrong game. My boss at the hairdressers found
me the job at the sign makers and I was finally able to start
doing what I was good at. Unfortunately just in time for the
early 90's recession... so for the love of the job I struggled
on low wages and living in bedsits

All this time I could not have a dog. I needed a stable home
environment & I struggled & struggled on low wages just hoping
this dream would come true... In between time everybody's dog
was my dog. I was always willing to walk them & learn from
them. People were always happy to get out of walkies if there
was a willing volunteer... and I realised how much Sadie had
taught me. From JRT's to Rotties & Danes.. they responded to
enthusiasm, eye contact and body stance.

It never, ever occurred to me that you could get  job as a dog
trainer except for in the police or army...

I had learnt my own ways of handling dogs, from dogs... not
problem dogs or aggressive dogs but generally peoples pets who
generally appreciated the attention.

I met Pete, we bought our home and I begged, bribed near
enough blackmailed my boss to let me bring a dog to work -
much of it on the grounds that I had worked beside him and
helped him through the grey days of recession - it was payback
time. He gave in & we got Stone.

She knew 'sit', she knew 'stay' and she was pretty good on the
lead. No was the stop it command ~ and on command she would
stop. She was, as I have mentioned many times before, in a
real mess both physically & emotionally, but we worked on this
on the basis that we only ever offered a 'no' when it was for
reasons of her own safety and offered her lots and lots of
praise - just for being there. Her confidence grew -

Eventually - behaviour became a popular thing on TV and I
could see 'behaviourists'  putting methods in to play that I
had already used - namely Barking Mad (BBC TV) My interest in
this side started a revival and I started looking around the
internet. Then discovered alt.animals.dog and could share a
few of my ideas - Stone's problem with her flank sucking
really became an issue in May this year. Looking for an answer
which no one in my ng could help me with I started looking at
the others - inc. this one. I posted My Girl here in about
July time and had a few responses - I got sent Jerry's book
and for the very first time I read a completely passive means
of dog training. I think of Ivan, I think of poor Sadie...
and I talk to people and hear them tell me of the time they
had to beat there dog for chewing or running off... and I know
from Sadie and I know from Stone that it is not necessary -
but then without showing them it's hard to prove it and too,
with all theory and no practice it's hard to make it sound
like a real means whereas they watch uncle Matty work miracles
with his choke collar and they love the convenience of crating
their dogs - so to prove it I need to come here and put these
ideas across and learn from them.

I hope that gives you good insight as to why I like jerry's
book.

As for Jerry himself, when I thanked him for his book he was
as nice a person as one could communicate with. I see that he
is sometimes nasty, I can see that it's a pain ~ but too can I
see that in his mind he's standing up for the likes of poor
Ivan & Sadie.. and even to a degree me as a young girl.
That's not what I want... but I can see why. His sanity?
Questionable, as probably too is my own. It's taken me a long
long time to be able to stand up on my own and say and do as I
believe rather than hiding in shadows - a right I am not now
going to give up quickly... Jerry has got good stuff to say -
I can see also that some things may be questionable or could
be improved upon but the concept of a completely passive means
of working with dogs, or indeed any animal, has got to be an
ideal worth reaching for.
http://website.lineone.net/~di­ana_pete.attwood "sionnach"

<rhyfe...@email.msn.com> wrote in message

news:9sfmq9$133i9e$1@ID-45033.news.dfncis.de...

Message 2 in thread
From: Amy Dahl (a...@oakhillkennel.com)
Subject: Re: whoa - very long but you asked for it.

View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Date: 2001-11-10 05:52:08 PST

Diana wrote:

I read it carefully, Diana.  I can empathize better than you
probably know.  I am not inclined to go into such detail about
myself, but will say that, as with you, dogs have been my
"salvation" from a less-than-ideal past.

I would appreciate it if you would read the following.  Those
of us Jerry slams are not your dad.  Some of us use physical
means to train our dogs--but they are worlds away from the
pointless punishments that teach nothing but fear.  In my
case, if the dogs didn't respond with confidence and
enthusiasm (and rapid learning), I'd find another method or
quit altogether.

All-sweetness-and-no-correctio­ns is a pretty normal response
to the experience of physical abuse (of course, repeating the
pattern of abuse is another).  But IMO it is possible to go
another step beyond that and recognize that many dogs like to
work.  They like to learn and do complex things in partnership
with their person, and derive great confidence and stability
from this kind of activity. My observations suggest that the
"payoff" to the dog's happiness is well worth the few
corrections they experience.

And crate training, which you decry, makes it very easy to
housetrain a dog without the punishments you found so
ineffective, without so much as saying "no," and in a very
short time.  My first puppy had it figured out in three days.
I had never even thought about training a dog before.  It's a
matter of setting the puppy up to do things right.

I read what you wrote.  I paid attention; I respect your point
of view.  If you're ever in the Eastern U.S., plan to come by
North Carolina and I'll show you some dogs who LOVE their work
and are bursting with confidence--not to challenge what you've
written, but to introduce you to another aspect of potential
canine happiness and well-being.

Amy Dahl
Message 3 in thread
From: Jerry Howe (jho...@bellsouth.net)
Subject: Re: whoa - very long but you asked for it.

View this article only
Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior, alt.pets.dogs.labrador
Date: 2001-11-10 09:04:35 PST

Hello lying frosty dahl,

"Amy Dahl" <a...@oakhillkennel.com> wrote in message

news:3BED316A.FBC7737D@oakhillkennel.com...

us.

As stated. Most of our lying dog abusing Thugs are victims of
abuse, or they wouldn't HURT dogs to train them, and they
CERTAINLY wouldn't LIE about what they do to defend their
actions and beliefs...FACT.

That's right. I started off with that loudmouth drunken dog
abuser dogman and professor lying doc "scruff shake" dermer
and and professora "chin cuff absolutely doesn't mean slap"
gingold. Expose and cut off the head..., and now we're down
the the commercial purveyor of "PRESSURE" (PAIN and DEATH)...
that be YOU, lying frosty dahl.  That be you and your pals
cindymooreon and lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn and our shelter
dog killers like janet boss, john richardson and mikey ball et
al.

You hurt and intmidate dogs because you're not bright enough
to outwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.

Pointless or "effective" are moot issues. You HURT dogs
because you don't know any better ways of handling and
training them. You say you're an expert professional trainer.

I've discredited you. Competent trainers do not HURT dogs FOR
LOVE or MONEY.

There ain't no way you can suppose that whatever justifies you
applying "PRESSURE" to a dog, is going to result in anything
but MISTRUST and FEAR.

In your case you've been proven to be a liar on top of being a
dog abuser. That's gonnna cost you BIG TIME. You've libeled my
machine THAT SAVES DOG'S LIVE'S, dahl.  That means I'm gonna
take you for everything your worth... WATCH.

Here's the deal... I'll give you thirty days to close out your
dog training business and I forget all about you... all you
have to do is retract your statements about Doggy Do Right
(And Kitty Will Too) and explain that you had no information
about my machine and that you spoke in error because of you
unfamiliarity with appropriate dog training and the technology
involved in BIOSOUND. Send me an email and I'll have an
agreement drawn and noterized.

Otherwise, you lose the farm. Simple, huh?

That's part of your BIG LIE, dahl. You hurt and kill dogs.

I train real life working dogs, dahl. You train dogs for
points.  Is that why you got to pinch and twist their ears and
beat them with sticks and choke and shock and hang them when
they object to being beaten, choke, hit, and shocked? For
POINTS? Don't you know your dogs would work harder and better
if they were part of the team instead of being victims of your
Neanderthal mentality? Do you believe that hurting a dog to
make IT pick up a dead birdie is moore important than an
attack dog working to protect his family? If Jerry don'