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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / March 2006



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Greyhound vomiting yellow bile in the morning?

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Mike Wolf - 11 Mar 2006 08:04 GMT
My female greyhound has been vomiting yellow bile early in the morning
or in the evening when she hasn't eaten for a long time about once or
twice a week. She eats a lot of grass from the back yard and will throw
up big clumps of grass or will pass clumps of grass in her stool. She
has vomited bloody clumps of grass a couple of times and had bloody
diarrhea with grass in it a couple of time. She wil sometimes act sick
after vomiting and not want to eat or she will be fine and want to eat.
She has had a complete work up at the vet ( x-rays, blood work, ultra
sound, stool sample) and everything is normal. Is this all from eating
grass? Could it be reflux gastritis?
Ebbtide - 11 Mar 2006 09:39 GMT
> My female greyhound has been vomiting yellow bile early in the morning
> or in the evening when she hasn't eaten for a long time about once or
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> sound, stool sample) and everything is normal. Is this all from eating
> grass? Could it be reflux gastritis?

My mixed dog (75#) from the shelter acted just like this about a year ago.
Everything was negative, they felt it was irritable bowel syndrome and put
her on Sulfasalyzine 3x day x one week. This took care of the bloody stools
and the vomiting stopped.  She had reoccurrences of this for months, she's
okay now. They attributed it to anxiety.  She was a drop off at the shelter,
then she had to go back to be spayed, we were a new family. An esp. loving
dog, I guess her emotions couldn't take it. I did put her on a probiotic
(human  type from health food store) for 3 months. This helps to retain the
healthy, needed bacteria in the bowel, esp. important when the animal is
having diarrhea. She is still preoccupied with eating grass which I know the
Vet doesn 't want her to do. I am quick to pop priobiotic in her when I see
loose stools and any signs of GI distress.
Margaret - 11 Mar 2006 14:29 GMT
> My female greyhound has been vomiting yellow bile early in the morning
> or in the evening when she hasn't eaten for a long time about once or
> twice a week.

Do you feed once or twice a day?
I find that 2 small meals (breakfast & supper) helps with this kind of
problem.
Did the vet recommend using some zantac or similar to help settle the
stomach?
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard@HotMail.Com - 22 Mar 2006 17:24 GMT
HOWEDY mike,

> My female greyhound has been vomiting yellow bile early in the morning
> or in the evening when she hasn't eaten for a long time about once or
> twice a week.

Your dogs are DYIN from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE
aka The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome JUST LIKE MOST of your punk thug
coward active acute chronic long term incurable mental case pals dogs
are DYIN from <{) : ~  (  >

> She eats a lot of grass from the back yard and will throw up big clumps
> of grass or will pass clumps of grass in her stool. She has vomited bloody
> clumps of grass a couple of times and had bloody diarrhea with grass in it
> a couple of time. She wil sometimes act sick after vomiting and not want to
> eat or she will be fine and want to eat.

Your dogs is DYIN from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE
JUST LIKE HOWE ebbtide SEZ HER OWN DEATHLY ILL DOGS IS
DYIN for the SAME SAME SAME SAME REASON:

"My mixed dog (75#) from the shelter acted just like this about a year
ago.
Everything was negative, they felt it was irritable bowel syndrome and
put
her on Sulfasalyzine 3x day x one week. This took care of the bloody
stools
and the vomiting stopped.  She had reoccurrences of this for months,
she's
okay now. They attributed it to anxiety.  She was a drop off at the
shelter,
then she had to go back to be spayed, we were a new family. An esp.
loving
dog, I guess her emotions couldn't take it."

> She has had a complete work up at the vet ( x-rays, blood
> work, ultra sound, stool sample) and everything is normal.

Is that the SAME vet who RIPPED YOU OFF for $1200.00 tryin
to find the CAUSE of her chokin on a blade of grass in her throat?

>  Is this all from eating grass?

No. Dogs frequently eat grass and have NO PROBLEMO.

> Could it be reflux gastritis?

Yeah. THAT'S The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome, mikey:

       Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory

Susbject:      Bloat with no eating or drinking?

Date:  Wed, Aug 17 2005 11:21 am

HOWEDY mike wolf,

> Can a dog get bloat if they haven't eaten a
> meal for 8 hours and had very little water?

Yeah. Bloat is CAUSED BY STRESS, not diet,
EXXXORCISE, elevation of food, NUTHING BUT
STRESS, mike.

Your dogs are DYING from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE AKA The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, mike. Your
VETERINARY CASE HISTORY PROVES IT, mike.

You've been RIPPED OFF LIED TO and MISLED by
INCOMPETENT UNETHICKAL FRAUDULENT VETERINARIANS
like dra. carla and dra. deb, DVM's.

Death Producing Ulcers: "Emotional Influences
On Health & Behavior" Dr. George Von Hilsheimer

       Emotional Influences On Behavior

       Illness is directly related to depression and lack of
       adjustment, particularly to a new environment (Parens,
       McConville & Kaplan, 1966).

       A WIDE RANGE of PSYCHOSOMATIC or
       CORTICOVISCERAL DIS-EASES was surveyed
       by Wittkower (1965) to demonstrate the enormous
       importance of emotional factors in general health.

       Interview findings of emotional material (recently
       experienced hopelessness) pryor to biological
       examinations correctly identified 11 out of 19 with
       cervical cancer, and 25 of 32 who were cancer free
       even though psychological tests failed to discriminate
       these groups (Schmale & Iker, 1966)

       150 lung cancer patients showed significantly
       constricted expression of emotions. The had fewer
       childhood behavior problems, and lower neuroticism
       score than their cancer free controls. Heavy cigarette
       smokers who DO NOT INHALE are more apt to have LUNG
       CANCER. They, too, show LOWER neuroticism scores.
       Among heavy cigarette smokers poor emotional
       expression is as highly related to cancer as urban
       residence and is more important than a chronic cough
       or an air polluted environment (Kissen, 1966).

       A ten year observation of all the women who developed
       cancer in an isolated pupulation of 2,550 showed that
       they tended to be unstable or sub stable personalities
       characterized by melancholy and extraversion,
       especially marked with those of an undecided body
       build (Hagll, 1966). Personality dynamics effect both
       the development of cancer and it's SITE. Cancer
       may result from what appears to be a failure to grow--
       somatically, behaviorally and psychologically
       (Grinker, 1966).

       In 109 cases leukemia and lymphoma were associated
       with a number of losses or separations and with
       feelings of sadness, anxiety, anger or hopelessness.
       The PRIMARY FACTOR seems to be the shame and
       hopelessness of running out of psychological resources
       (Green, 1966). Cervical cancer patients are less
       emotionally responsive, more isolative, and less
       frequently diagnosed as having clinical neuroses than
       cancer free patients. There is NO CLEAR DIFFERENCE in
       their FEELINGS and ATTITUDES toward coitus (Rotkin,
       Qunk, & Couchman, 1965).

       Schmidt (1966) surveyed nearly 100 studies of
       behaviorally induced DIS-EASE in animals CONFIRMING
       and EXTENDING the DATA on PEOPLE. Behaviorally
       induced DIS-EASES tend to fall into two groups;
       (1) Hysteriform problems, which INCLUDE HYSTERICAL
       SEIZURES and FORMS of AGGRESSION as well as
       collective panic and epilepsies;
       (2) organic modifications, including functional
       difficulties and lesions affecting gastro intestinal,
       cardio vascular, respiratory, sexual, endocrine, skin,
       urinary, and neuro muscular systems.

       It is INTERESTING, and SLIGHTLY HORRIFYING,
       to note that the ONLY SCIENTIFIC RELEVANCE of
       the standard six hour school day that I have been able
       to detect in research is that Sawrey and Weisz quite
       by accident found that six hours on and six hour off of
       "EXECUTIVE  BEHAVIOR" in monkeys was the ONLY
       TIME STRUCTURE that INDUCED DEATH PRODUCING
       ULCERS.

            ALL Temperament and Behavior Problems
                     And 90% Of DIS-EASE
                 Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
                       THAT'S GOOD!
                THAT MEANS We can CURE ALL
              Temperament And Behavior Problems
                     And 90% Of DIS-EASE
                      NEARLY INSTANTLY
        Simply By DOING EXXXACTLY, PRECISELY, OPPOSITE
                  Of HOWE We've Been TAUGHT
             By UNIVERSITY TRAINED Behaviorists

HOWEDY People!

ALL Temperament and Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition."  Ivan P. Pavlov

THAT'S GOOD!

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."

THAT MEANS we can CURE ALL Temperament And Behavior
Problems NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOING EXXXACTLY,
PRECISELY, OPPOSITE of HOWE we've been TAUGHT TO
MISHANDLE and ABUSE HOWER dogs by the UNIVERSITY
TRAINED behaviorists and PROFESSIONAL PET CARE
SPECIALISTS who MAKE THEIR LIVING off of PERPETUATING
their SHEER IDIOCY and IGNOING the works of Drs. Sam
Corson, Dra. Mary Cover Jones, Breland & Breland, and
other notable psychologists IGNORED and OVERLOOKED by
the ABUSERS who TEACH US to lock HOWER dogs in boxes,
bribe, choke, intimidate, and IGNORE HOWER dog's,
children's and SP-HOWESES cries of FEAR and NEED and
WITHHOLD attention, affection, so called "rewards"
and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TRUST and RESPECT.

Pavlov Told Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last
Student Demonstrated At UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation
Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management
Of Doggys.  <{) ; ~ ) >

WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO BLAME THE DOG OR ITS BREED:

                ALL Critters Only Respond In
              PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
                 INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
      To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
                  Which We Create For Them.

               You GET The Critter You TRAINED

                       A DOG Is A Dog;
                      As A KAT Is A KAT;
                    As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
                    As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
                  As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has MUCH CASE HISTORY and PEER
REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC DATA to PROVE these "FAR FETCHED"
claims. HOWEver, for today's puporses, this will be all
that's necessary:

Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A

Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for all
handlers and all dogs in all fields or
utilities and behaviors all over the Whole
Wild World <{) ; ~ )  >

                ALL Critters Only Respond In
              PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
                 INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
      To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
                  Which We Create For Them.

               You GET The Critter You TRAINED

                       A DOG Is A Dog;
                      As A KAT Is A KAT;
                    As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
                    As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
                  As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

            In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
                      FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
                      SAME SAME SAME SAME,
           For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

         Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
              We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
                 And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

        ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

          Jer 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
          Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before
          you The Way Of Life, And The Way Of Death.

          2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
          shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
          the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
          thou hast heard, with which the servants of
          the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.
                 The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:41:01 -0500
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: "time-out"

Dan, my own firm hatred of punishment has
recently been intensified by meeting The
Puppy Wizard, Jerry Howe, whose work with
dogs is marvelous.

There is a literature on harms caused by time
out, and perhaps you'd like to look at
http://www.dogydoright.com
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care."

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

> So why is that a problem?

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated."

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<drv...@mindspring.com>

To: <pdd-aspy...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: How does diagnosis shape treatment?

How does diagnosis shape treatment?

Nearly every week I have a visit from Jerry Howe, who
publicizes himself as The Puppy Wizard. Jerry is a
master at behavioral modification of dogs.

His fundamental bedrock is the work Pavlov's last student,
the late Sam Corson, Ph.D., did at the U of Ohio (at Oxford,O).

Sam always pointed out if the dog stopped working for
you in the lab, Pavlov and he always took the dog away
from the lab, and put him in a loving home and gave him
TLC for a couple of months, and then started, very carefully,
over again.

Jerry believes that reward and constraint focused training
is immoral. I've watched him in one short session calm
impossible dogs, just about to be murdered (oops "put to
sleep") because of their "incorrigibly" violent behavior.

Sam was one of the first people to apply amphetamine to
hyperactivity (he searched the Middle West for hyperactive
dogs); but he never lost sight of the fundamental reality that
a dog is not a human, but does respond, doggily, to dog love.

You might be surprised to go to B. F. Skinner's "Cumulative
Record" and read the essay by Breland and Breland, "The
Misbehavior of Organisms".

Animals cannot be successfully trained unless the trainer
attends to the evolutionary history, the individual's
developmental history, and the environmental niche of
the animal being trained.

Yep, right there in Skinner's last and summary book.
Even with behavior mod, you must know the animal.

<snip>

       Dogs or little boys, you have to know the individual
       history, and the nature of he disorder.

       Dr. Von

       PS if you are interested in dogs, then take
       a look at Jerry's work.

         Dr. George VonHilsheimer writes in

         "Is there a SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR?":

"Valette 1966 is a complete trivialization of
scientific findings. It overstates the case for
reinforcement theory. No careful researcher
would contend that operant techniques CAN ANY
THING MORE than modify SHORT TERM BEHAVIOR in
a highly controlled and limited environment
with a large number of skillful experimenters.

Certainly the most elaborate studies have shown
that the withdrawal or temprary inefficiency of
the reward system is immediately followed by
CESSATION of the programmed behavior.

In fortunate contrast to this depressing paper
is the research reported by Whelan (1966) who
makes the simple but profHOWEND caveat that
"It is only through CORRECT, EFFICIENT APPLICATION
(of operant principles) that children's behavor can
be changed to the extent that they can subsequently
contribute to the REAL WORLD in which they live." "

  "The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
                   Never Change,
   Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
     Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
           For All Handler's And All Dogs,
           ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
                NEARLY INSTANTLY,
  As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
   FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
            The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ )  >

Dr. Von continues:

"Whelan illustrates the simple nature or the
learning process by referring to Ferster's
engaging study of two three year old
chimpanzees taught mathematics through
simple procedures. Whelan carries this
EVIDENCE a step futher by pointing HOWET
it's applicability to disturbed children."

      You Get The Critter You Trained

              A Dog Is A Dog
            As A Kat Is A Kat
          As A Birdie Is A Birdie
           As A Child Is A Child
        As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

       ALL Critters Only Respond In
  PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE
              REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
         Which We Create For Them.

        Damn The Descartean War of
          "Nature Vs Nurture."
    We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
       And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

  In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
          FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
              SAME SAME,
 For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

Dr. Von continues:

"If chimpanzees CAN LEARN mathematics through step
by step learning AT THEIR OWN PACE, reinforced
primarily by CORRECT ANSWERS rather than with
"fruit loops and rasins", we can assume that even
developmentally RETARDED or CONfHOWENDED children
CAN LEARN as well.

Moreover, Whelan makes the EXXXTREMELY important
point that while most teachers assume that learning
takes place verbally, primarily it is a non verbal
process..

Unfortunately Whelan limits himself to the problem
that "teachers must not only modify or remove specific
deviant behaviors, but must also develop socially
acceptable behavior patterns in the classroom and
classroom conditioned goals, NOT LEARNING.

Other researchers have emphasized the importance
of adult behaviors in conditioning classroom behavior.
An EXXXCELLENT review of this research showd that
tantrum behavior, excessive crawling and dependency,
isolated play, passivity, spelling failure, and other
problem behaviors can be managed by altering habitual
adult responses to children (Harris, Wolf and Baer, 1964) .

Such RESEARCH holds GREATER PROMISE in that alteration
of the conditioning social environment seems to provide
more STABLE and LASTING CHANGES than "M and M's". Moreover,
a great deal of work has been done developing EFFECTIVE
techniques of behavior modificaton through the conditioning
social environment of peers (Hartup, 1964). These directions
would seem more PRODUCTIVE than a simple minded trainslation
of the Skinner cage to the classroom.

Skinner (1963) pointed HOWET that operant techniques
can "be utilized fully ONLY IF we REDEFINE the GOALS
of education and the CONDITIONS in the educational
environment under which those goals may be reached...
(through) a DIFFERENT KIND of educational research
which is much more closely concerned with the immediate
dimensions of the student's behavior than with gross
changes such as IMPROVED PERFORMANCES."

UNFORTUNATELY, neither Skinner nor ANY OTHER
learning theorist has provided us with a working
model of a school or research enterprise based
on systemic and thorough-going APPLICATION of
LEARNING PRINCIPLES.

Skinner (1948, 1953) approaches a definition of the
philosophical issues involved, and provides an utopian
model of a school, but generally psychologists seem
STUCK at a level of MANAGEMENT of an aggressively
disturbing child in the classroom, through peer approval,
or the aplication of accelerating CONsequences in the
classroom, or scientifically S-HOWENDING tactics like
"TIME HOWET" (which we used to know more simply
as "sendin the kid to the cloakroom").

Hobbs (op. cit.) claims that the classroom is a
natural environement for the child. Thelen (1965)
contends that "classroom practices are UNnatural,
UNreasonable, and 'against NATURE.' "This would
seem the central issue for the philosophy of education.
Mere trivial application of research findings to an
institution essentially unchanged from Sumerian academies
(Kramer, 1962) will NOT create useful teaching for
human beings.

It seems relevant to ask EXXXACTLY WHAT do we
know abHOWT the learning situation in which HOWER
children find themselves, and why, in the light of HOWER
knowledge, do we do any of the things that schools do?"

We know that there is little agreement among adults
as to what it is they are SUPPOSED to be DOING,
what something to do could be that MIGHT be
EFFECTVE, and what it IS that other people who
have authority over children ought to be doing (Mc-
Eachern and Taylor, 1967). Wherefor the child's
CONfusiHOWEN?

It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966).

Probably the most absurd figure in Amaerican mass
media is the TEACHER (Gerbner, 1966). HOWE can
we EXXXPECT children to LEARN responsible P-HOWER
from models of IMPOTENCE? We KNOW that LEARNING
a complex ritualized social role, is facilitated
by observation of an INTELLIGIBLE MODEL much more
effectively than by trial and error with REINFORCEMENT.

Roles which are relatively arbitrary and senseless are
the most difficult to learn (Luchins, 1966). Do we make
ANY EFFORT as teachers to CORRECT the massive impact of
media?

HOWE can the ARBITRARINESS and SENSELESSNESS
of IMPOTENT ADULT MODELS be redeemed by anything
short of RELEVANCE and COMMITMENT?

As an engaging final comment on the PROFESSION
let me mention the little study by Dittman et al (1965)
tha when 15 psychotherapists and 9 professional dancers
evaluated facial and bodily expressons for effect the
dancers were much MOORE accurate. Need we say MOORE
abHOWET the training of therapists?

THE OPERANT FALLACY

Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) ar no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists. Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation
of programmed systems for elarning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST SURELY
DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers.

The 190 studies annotated by Schramm (1964) when
inspected display NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES
in SUCCESS among approaches and modifications.
Programmed instruction is no worse than conventional
instruction, and takes less time, but time reductions in
conventional instruction has frequently been shown
possible without detrimental effects. If you draw your
controls cagily you can always show the superiority of
your PET technique.

Moore and Smit (1964) compared variations on
programmed materials, machines, texts, written
responses, merely reading, free response, multiple
choice, and iving or not giving the students results.
There were NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES despite
Skinner's insistence on the importance of the
CONTINGENCY of REINFORCEMENT. Carpenter
and Greenhill (1963) could find NO DIFFERENCE
in RESULTS even after eliminating the self-pacing
feature by presenting the materials by TV or Video.

Krumboltz and Kiesler (1965) reported that a two month
follow up test showed NO DIFFERENCE between students
given a variety of reinforcement schedules. Mayo and
Longo (1966) report that naval and marine trainees
saved 30% of time in learning electronics fundamentals
through a programed course witrh superior scores on one
measure but not on another, and with no follow-up reported.

The same authors reported a reductionj from 26 HOWERS
to 19 HOWERS in instruction time through the use of
program with NO DIFFERENCE in test scores, except
that as longer blocks of materiallearned through
programmed means were tesed the scores DECREASED.

When the control instruction is manipulated an entirely
DIFFERENT picture emerges Jacobs and Kulkarni (1966)
assignedstudents in three different schools to classes
with standard programmed material giving immediate
knowledge of results to classes without results and to
classes with the order of sections of the program inverted.

In two schools the groups without knowledge of results
and the groups with inverted material SCORED HIGHER.
In one school there was NO DIFFERENCE. So much for
THEORY. Reid and Taylor (1965) presented a linear
program on paper-making to 60 paid undergrads with
a 12 week follow up test. The group which merely
read learned the same material in 154 minutes to
243 minutes for the group given responses- a
REVERSAL of the usual BIASED RESULTS based
on POOR CON-TROLLS. There were no differences
on post tests.

Spagnoli (1965) reports on a study exposing the control
and programed group to the same material in a concentrated
effort over a limited period of time. There were NO
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES.

Sassenrath and Garverick (1965) gave 4 matched
groups of 120 students four procedures: 1) looking
up the wrong answers, 2) having questions discussed
by the instructors, 3) checking answers from correct
ones on the board, and 4) no feedback. The discussion
method proved best.

Finally, in studying means of training men to perform
a 72 action prcedure on Nike-Hercules equipment,
Cox and Boren (1965) demonstrated that the time
required to learn the procedure to critterion was NO
DIFFERENT when the actions were organized into
seven operant spans and taught in reverse order, in
natural order, or without grouping into operant spans
at all.

IT IS CLEAR that as comparisons became more
sophisticated programed instruction and other
operant teaching techniquesreveal tehemselves
as simply another prestigiHOWES FAD--somewhat
better than conventional instruction in saving time,
but certainly not providing a better or better organized
or more independently useful GRASP of KNOWLEDGE.

The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and learning
immediately deteriorated.

Despite this, and despite the fact that there was no
evidence of cognitive association with the words, the
authors leap to the conclusion that the fact that the
boys improved in the acquisition of Norwegian words
WITHOUT REWARDS while still being given English
words WITH REWARDS suggest hat the children may
be able to acquire new behaviors on their own.

The need for this study escapes one, particularly in
view of the very well established fact that schizophrenics
condition quite readily (Mednick, 1958)

One can see the "SCIENTIFIC" PRECISION by which the
authors drop contingent reinforcements thus PROVING
that the parrot behavior was indeed caused by the
schedule and NOT by some other mystical force.

The use of Norwegian to demonstrate learning that
could not even remotely be related to previous history
is a grotesquery too bizarre to be credited. Who could
possibly doubt that this useless and probably damaging
trained seal routine depended on the psychologist's antics?

What on earth led them to believe that a schizophrenic
needs even more other-focused responsiveness?

Lovaas et al (1965) reported three programs carried
out on five year old autistic twins conditioining them
to "social behavior" and to eliminate pathologial
behaviors such as self-stimulation and tantrums.

Affectionate and other social behaviors toward
adults increaseed after adults had been associated
with shock reduction. The routine for this treatment
brings immediate relief to mind Sawrey and Wesz
(1956) routine for producing ulcers in monkeys.

I suppose it is USELESS to speculate on the source
of SO CALLED THERAPISTS willingness to experiment
on human beings with procedures for which there is
sound experimentally established WARNINGS. If the
"double blind" theory of the origin of schizophrenia
(Bateson, 1956) is at all valid, HOWE DEVASTATING
the experience must ULTIMATELY BE.

Do Lovaas et al REALLY BELIEVE the schizophrenic
has no cognitive processes and DOES NOT KNOW
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SHOCK? Greger
(1965) criticized this study on the basis that
trainsfer CANNOT be generalized.

That issue can be answered by experience, and,
of curse, the "social" behavior of these children
deteriorates as soon as the psychologists LOOSE INTEREST.

The IMPORTANT ISSUE for a SCIENCE OF BEHAVIOR
is why not attempt those things which are KNOWN to
WORK at least in some cases if only for control puporses.

Kanner (1954) reports that 13 classically autistic
children improved enough to go to school without
"anything that is regarded as good psychotherapy or
as psychotherapy at all..."

Autistic children have been known to become
permenantely social by deinstitutionalization,
BY REMOVAL from the parents, BY RADICAL CHANGES
in other environments, and by MASSIVE DOSAGE of
TOUCHING, HOLDING, FONDLING LOVE DESPITE THE
REJECTION OF THE CHILD.

My case, Larry, (vonHilsheimer, 1965b), demonstrates
a recovery by using the mother as an autistic boy's
teacher in an open millieu. It is curiHOWES that the
operant technicians provide as few, and as UNIMAGINITAVE
controls for thier "research" as the Freudians.

REWARD / PUNISHMENT

Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966).

MIMICRY, PLAY, EXPLORATION AND
THE NEED FOR DATA

Complex activities are LEARNED MORE QUICKLY
through OBSERVATION (copying, if you will) than
by trial and error with reinforcemet (Luchins,).
Observers of subjects making a first trial of a multiple
choice bolt head maze made fewer errors than the
practiced subjects in the second run, while subjects
who have been shocked for error on a first trial made
more errors than either (Rosenbaum & Hewitt, 1966).
Students will modify their beliefs more when rewarded
for the way in which they carried out arguing for a
disagreeable position (role reward), than when rewarded
for the content of the argument (Wallace, 1966).

===================

           INTRO TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING MANUAL
           George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D. F.R.S.H.

Several years ago one of my old students telephoned
to me and asked me what I knew about Doggie Do
Right, a device to cause your neighbor's dog to stop
barking.

I had not heard of the device, nor its inventor, Jerry
Howe, but I telephoned, read his website, and told
my graduate that I thought the device was worth a
trial - indeed I shut up the dogs in my neighborhood
by turning on Jerry's supersonic device.

After all we all know that dogs respond to whistles
humans cannot hear, so why not respond to "attaboy"
sounds which humans cannot hear.

My student lived far from my Florida homestead, so
he tried it on the three incredibly savage, hyperactive
and noisy dogs who lived behind a tall fence just 3 feet
back of his bedroom.

Hot rats! The device worked,

Andy got his sleep and I didn't think much of the
matter again.

A few months ago I had new neighbors on each
side of my house, four of them, all with noisy
unshuttupable dogs. Argh!

So I foned Andrew in Virgina, received the intelligence
that his neighbors dogs were still quiet, and then I foned
Jerry Howe, the inventor of Doggie Do Right, who came
to visit me.

Merlin walked into my office.

Jerry is a slender fellow with a belly button lenghth grey
beard tapering down his chest. I liked him immediately,
and I applied his instrument to the neighborhood again
which again became silent.

It occured to me that if this ultrasonic field worked with
dogs that we ought at least to ask the question, what
happens to humans in range of the device???

I asked Jerry to give me a list of customers and began
inquiring among them. One thing became immediately
evident. The Doggie Do Right not only shuts up your
neighbors' dogs, it calms and modifies your husband's behavior.

Holey Moley, Captain Marvel, this device has major potential.

In the meantime Jerry gave me a copy of his Wits End
Dog Training Manual. I was delighted. He also introduced
me to the world of professional dog trainers some of whom
even have Ph.D.s in psychology.

This was not such a delight as it appeared that none
of these luminaries had actually read Skinner, Lazarus
or other fountains of wisdom in psychology. Indeed, it
seemed as though they knew very little about the laws
of behavior at all!

Punishment and confrontation seemed to be their
major stock in trade.

Well, if you go to my website, www.drbiofeedback.com
you can read of the career of Sam Corson, I.P. Pavlov's
last student.

Sam demonstrated that rehabilitation of hyperactive
dogs can easily and readily be done using TLC, tender
loving care is at the root of the scientific management
of doggies.

Pavlov told us so 100 years ago.

So what are these degreed morons doing punishing
dogs, and shouting "NO" into their doggie faces? If
you pick up B.F.Skinner's last book, CUMULATIVE
RECORD, included in it is an essay by Keller Breland
and Maryann Breland entitled THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS.

Skinner deliberately included his students' chapter
to emphasize that you cannot manage the behavior
of animals unless you take into consideration 1. the
animal's evolutionary niche (who is the animal?);
2. the animal's personal history (who is the animal?)
and 3, the instinctive repetoire of the animal (who is
the animal?) and 4. the personality of the animal (who
is the animal?).

The Brelands moved far from the white rat. "Thirty-eight
species, totaling over 6,000 individual animals, have been
conditioned, and we have dared to tackle such unlikely
subjects as reindeer, cockatoos, raccoons, porpoises,
and whales."

Jerry Howe spends most of his times with dogs, but
he has learned Pavlov's lesson well. Dogs are individuals,
they are individual DOGS, and they respond most directly
and immediately to love and tender loving care.

Read with pleasure, and then go love your dog.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
Who's Who Honoree since 1983

            From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)

        The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

      I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
      years. I have a huge library that covers every system
      of training.

      The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
      Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
      the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
      method yet discovered.

      It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
      a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
      and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
      consistent manner.

      Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
      understand the basis of his system and please follow
      his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
      It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
      descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
      how their solution should be approached.

      One should not pick and choose from among his methods
      based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
      not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
      for not only training a dog but for raising a loving
      companion.

      When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
      you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
      produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

      You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
      with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
      praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
      will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
      Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
      just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
      dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
      seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
      lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

      Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
      praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
      train you dog to respond to your commands.

      What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
      puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
      carry him in response to my recall command-and he
      comes running every time I call no matter where we are
      or what he is doing.

      At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
      his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
      his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

     Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
     scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
     if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
     you.

     Is Jerry a nut?

    It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
    It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based upon
    their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
    wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply
    when he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding
    or hurting dogs.

    More than that, he knows  that force is not effective
    and that it will certainly  lead to behavior problems;
    sometime problems so severe  that people put their
    dogs down because of those problems.

   I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
   their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
   at our wits' end, haven't we?

   Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
   literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
   respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
   to praise.

  Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
  wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
  You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
  dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
  along with their anxiety.

  Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
  Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
  would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
  success.

  Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

  If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet little
  Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little gremlin
  (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

       Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
           CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S
              It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
                             <{) ; ~ )  >

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

   You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals.  Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD.  They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired.  If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning.  Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis.  Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source.  "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition."  Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

            All truth passes through three stages.
                  First, it  is ridiculed.
               Second, it is violently opposed.
         Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
                   -Arthur Schopenhauer

            "Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
                even tho it's a hopeless task,
                     in this system of things.
                As long as man is ruling man,
             there will be animals (and humans!)
                  abused and neglected. :-(
                   Your student," Juanita.

        "If you've got them by the balls their hearts
                   and minds will follow,"
                       John Wayne.

             The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >
Reverb - 22 Mar 2006 18:37 GMT
>              The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >

---Offensive load of crap snipped

How can anyone so hostile to humans have any useful opinions about dogs?
TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWizard@HotMail.Com - 22 Mar 2006 22:05 GMT
HOWEDY reverb,

> >              The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >
>
> ---Offensive load of crap snipped

Tsk tsk tsk. What's OFFENSIVE abHOWET "The SCIENCE Of Behavior"
"Death Producing Ulcers: "Emotional Influences On Health & Behavior"
Dr. George Von Hilsheimer"?

You DON'T LIKE to BELIEVE that it PROVES:

            ALL Temperament and Behavior Problems
                     And 90% Of DIS-EASE
                 Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

                       THAT'S GOOD!

                THAT MEANS We Can CURE ALL
              Temperament And Behavior Problems
                     And 90% Of DIS-EASE
                      NEARLY INSTANTLY
        Simply By DOING EXXXACTLY, PRECISELY, OPPOSITE
                  Of HOWE We've Been TAUGHT
             By PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAINERS And
                 UNIVERSITY TRAINED Behaviorists And
                      Veterinary Malpracticioners <{) ; ~ )  >

                ALL Critters Only Respond In
              PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
                 INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
      To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
                  Which We Create For Them.

               You GET The Critter You TRAINED

                       A DOG Is A Dog;
                      As A KAT Is A KAT;
                    As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
                    As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
                  As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

            In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
                      FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
                      SAME SAME SAME SAME,
           For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

         Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
              We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
                 And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

        ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

          Jer 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
          Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before
          you The Way Of Life, And The Way Of Death.

          2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
          shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
          the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
          thou hast heard, with which the servants of
          the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.
                 The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

> How can anyone so hostile to humans have any useful opinions about dogs?

            "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
                           can be judged
                   by the way its animals are treated."
                        ~ Mohandas Gandhi --
               Adapted with permission from his FREE
               copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits'
               End Dog Training Method Manual. <}TPW ; ~ )  >

                     Force training JERRYIZES dogs...
                         and GETS THEM DEAD.

                 "Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
                      for the good of its victims,
                       may be the most oppressive.
                 Those who torment us for our own good
                       will torment us without end,
                  for they do so with the approval of
                        their own conscience." -
                            - C.S. Lewis.

              "Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
                        Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
                             Agamemnon

         "Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
                       as separate, not the wise.

             If any man knows one, he enjoys the fruit of both.

                  The level which is reached by wisdom
                             is attained
                      through right action as well.

          He who perceives that the two are one knows the truth."

           "Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
           indeed all creatures act according to their natures.

                   What is the use of compulsion then?

                  The love and hate which are aroused
               by the objects of sense arise from Nature,
                         do not yield to them.
                     They only obstruct the path," -
                     - Bhagavad Gita, adapted by
                     Krishna with permission from
                     His FREE copy of The Puppy
                     Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
                     Training Method manual <{) ; ~  )   >

               In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
                         FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
                            SAME SAME,
              For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

         The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME Is the Perfect Synergy Of
               Love, Pride, Desire, Shame, Greed, Ego, Fear,
                       Hate, Reflex, Self Will,
              Arrogance, Ignorance, Predjudice, Cowardice,
           Disbelief, Jealousy, Embarrassment, Embellishment,
                Guilt, Anger, Hopelessness, Helplesness,
         Aversion, Attraction, Inhibition, Revulsion, Repulsion,
           Change, Permanence, Enlightenment, Insult, Attrition,
                                And
             Parental / ReligiHOWES / Societal Conditioning.

                 YOU ARE THE CRITTER YOU WAS TRAINED.

        It Is The Perfect Fusion Of The Word..., In The Physical.

              "The thinking that got us into this mess
              will be insufficient to get us out of it."
                      --Albert Einstein

         "If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
                   and you will know each other.
         If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
               and what you do not know you will fear.

                 What one fears, one destroys."
                       Chief Dan George

       "The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
                          Never Change,
        Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
          Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
                    For All Handler's And All Dogs
                        AND ALL BEHAVIORS
                  ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD
                       NEARLY INSTANTLY,
       As Taught In Your Own FREE Copy Of The Simply Amazing
          Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
       SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
              The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ )  >

                    "A cheerful heart is good medicine,
                  but a crushed spirit dries up the bones".
                               Proverbs 17:22

                   Blessed are all who take refuge in HIM.

                Jerry 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
                        Thus saith the LORD Of DOG;
                          Behold, I set before you
                              The Way Of Life,
                                   And
                             The Way Of Death.

          2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
          shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
          the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
          thou hast heard, with which the servants of
          the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.
                 The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

            And Disciple Paulie said unto them, Thus shall ye
            say to your master, Thus saith The LORD Of DOG,
            Be not afraid of the words which thou hast heard,
            with which the servants of koehler and university
            trained behaviorists and veterinary malpracticioners
            have blasphemed me.

                            Disciple Paulie Sez:

         "No One Understands How Wits End Training Really
         Works,  They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey And don't
         Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That Deals With
         Any Situation  And  The  Foundation Is Built On Trust
         And Understanding.

         I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
         they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
         I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
         me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
         they always are, always.

        Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good
        dog" sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll
        find your dog thinking then responding everytime.
        A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies
        to every aspect of the relationship with your dog.

        Obedience and affection are not related, if they were
        everyone would have obedient dogs.

        I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam
        sit goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all,
        all dogs want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they
        are good then they feel an obligation to obey your request.

        Telling Sam he's a good dog AFTER he sit's apart from
        been too late is also a gamble because if he doesn't
        sit then there's no positive interaction.
                              Paul

           "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
                       I came not to send peace,
                             but a sword.
       "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
                   and the daughter against her mother,
             the daughter in law against her mother in law
                and the scholar against his professors.
         "And a man's foes shall be they of his own HOWEshold."
                     The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

                  All truth passes through three stages.
                         First, it is ridiculed.
                   Second, it is violently opposed.
              Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
                        -Arthur Schopenhauer

                 "Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
                     even tho it's a hopeless task,
                       in this system of things.
                    As long as man is ruling man,
                 there will be animals (and humans!)
                      abused and neglected. :-(
                       Your student," Juanita.

              "If you've got them by the balls their hearts
                        and minds will follow,"
                            John Wayne.

After all it AIN'T like we was HURTIN dogs an LYIN abHOWET IT.

LIKE THIS:

        "Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
        news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
         >
         > Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
         > > When you compare using sound and
         > > praise to solve a problem with using
         > > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
         > > how can you criticize the use of sound?

         > There's nothing more to be said, then.
         > You've made up your mind.

         > But you've impressed me by mentioning
         > that you're a professor with 30 years of
         > experience.

         > So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?
         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         >> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
         >> will often make the dog either aggressive
         >> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
         >> to do.
         >
         > And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
         > No matter what Jerry Howe states.
         >
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
         > doubt, please provide a quote (an
         > original quote, not from one of Jerry
         > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
         > shows a regular poster promoting or
         > using an abusive form of training.
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         > So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?
         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         >  What's the point, but: Refer me to those posts of
         >  which you have read so many.  While you're going
         >  through them, point out those which recommend
         >  shocking, and pinching, and beating.  Thank you.
         > --
         > -Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

         > Rocky wrote:
         > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
         > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
         >
         > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
         > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
         > > is choking. It's never limited.
         >
         > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
         > Thank you for your contribution.
         >-
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >

         From: Rocky (2...@rocky-dog.com)
         Subject: Re: How to handle aggressive situations
         Date: 2004-10-19 19:42:54 PST

         Melanie L Chang said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

        > I try really hard not to yell.  The times that I have, Solo
        > joined in and then lunged to the end of the leash.

        Or, at the other end of the spectrum, Rocky cowers,
        thinking I'm angry at him - a reason I don't "yuk out"
        others' dogs at agility trials or training.
        --
        --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

                         ---------------

         Sometimes my "voice of god" startles human
         and dog, especially when the human didn't
         see the inappropriate behaviour. --Matt.
         Rocky's a Dog.

       From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
       Date: 10 Jun 2003 18:00:45 GMT
       Subject: Re: Absolutely abysmal agility day

       Robin Nuttall said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

       > One of the things that frustrates me the most about agility
       > is that people seem to think that ALL dogs are fragile,
       > shrinking flowers who cannot be corrected in any way.

       Well, maybe one day -- when Friday doesn't take correction so
       much to heart -- I'll try something different.  Right now, he's
       just getting the confidence to work a few jumps ahead of me.
       --
       --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

      From: Rocky (mbon...@sunada.com)
      Subject: Re: Leg Humper
      Date: 1999/09/14

      Bioso...@aol.com (Jerry Howe) wrote in
      <37D698CF.405B0...@bellsouth.net>:

      > By "sticking your knee up," I can only presume that you are
      > suggesting that the people knee the dog in the chest. If
      > that's what you meant, just say it, instead of beating around
      > the bush to avoid criticism from people like me. That kind of
      > crap has got to stop, and that's why I'm here, to help wean
      > you guys off of the abuse and into the proper methods of
      > dealing with behavior problems.

      Jerry, I was appreciating your explanation
      up until this last paragraph.

      Why did you blow it?

      --Matt

      From: Rocky <2...@rocky-dog.com>
      Date: 16 Sep 2003 03:47:41 GMT
      Subject: Re: Dominant Agressive Puppy????

      Nessa said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

      > the only thing I remember learning from a spanking was to
      > run faster than my dad and NOT GET CAUGHT.   so what does
      > that say?

      I learned to put a comic book down the back of my pants.  And
      sometimes my parents pretended not to notice.  In retrospect,
      that's pretty cool.
      --
      --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

         "Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
         news:Xns92FE730764918australianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

         > Melinda Shore wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
         >
         > > But he's the one producing the training MATTerial.

         > Ack.  You just gave him some moore ammunition.
         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

         "dallygirl" <kwickwick@hotmail.com> said in
         rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

         > choke chains are outdated and barbaric in many cases
         > causing more harm than good.

         Back at you with flat buckle collars.  These are an
         incredibly abused training tool, what with the number
         of handlers I see pulling back and jerking on the leash
         with both hands.

         It's a good thing that most of us are here because of dogs'
         well-being and not an agenda.
         --
         --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

                   BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

   "Loop the lead (it's basically a GIANT nylon or leather
   choke collar) over his snarly little head, and give him a
   stern correction" --Janet Boss

   "Reliable Punishment Cycles, Different Thresholds To Pain
   And Punishment, High Tolerance For Correction, Escalation
   Of Correction To A Level Where The Dog Yelps When You Punish
   Him, Thus Making The Experience One Which The Dog Will Want
   To Avoid In The Future," grant teeboon, RAAF.

   "Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
   A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
   Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
   Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
   He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

   captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
   ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
   The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
   Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

   "Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
   Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
   Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
   Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
   The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
   mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

   On 6 Feb 2006 17:41:08 GMT, Mary Healey <mhhealey@iastate.edu>,
   clicked their heels and said:

   > Does that include tone of voice?  Some tools are easier
   > to ban than others.

   yes - screaming banshees are told to shut up!  And I
   always have to remind spouses that they may NOT do the
   "honey - you're supposed to be doing it like THIS"......
   --
   Janet B
   www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
   http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album

   lying frosty dahl, oakhill kennels wrote:
   Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
   the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,  less tractable
   dogs may require you to progress to striking them
   more sharply

   Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
   the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
   Eventually, the dog will give in

   but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
   efforts to escaping the ear pinch

   You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
   instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
   and pinch the ear against that

   Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
   urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

   CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
   Right Hand,  As it catches on, try using the stick
   and no ear pinch.

   When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
   and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
   you are finished

   If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
   say "No! Hold!"

   (stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
   the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
   it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

   "Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
    professora gingold.

   terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
   "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
   something you twisted out of context, because you
   are full of bizarro manure."

       "Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
       Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
       With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
       discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And  Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few  Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

THAT'S sumpthin to be PR-HOWED abHOWET, eh matty?

        Rocky wrote:
        > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com> said in
        > rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
        >
        > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what would
        > > be the point? Where I come from, choking is choking.
        > > It's never limited.
        >
        >  So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
        >  Thank you for your contribution.
        > --
        > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
        >
        Deltones wrote:
        >
        > Rocky wrote:
        >
        > > "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
        >
        > > > After your defense of "Limited" choking, what
        > > > would be the point? Where I come from, choking
        > > > is choking. It's never limited.

Not so in PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING, Deltones.

        > > So, you can't point out abuse where none occurs.
        > > Thank you for your contribution.
        > > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.

Looks like you've pushed the mental cases over the edge again...

> Well, I think you carefully avoided quoting the last part of my post.
> You know the one about a bunch of little Colonel Parker doing Elvis's
> out of their dogs? Oh right, limited choking is not abuse, and pumping
> dogs full of drugs to make them behave ain't either in your world huh?
> For the benefit of our gentle readers, here's the part you forgot to
> quote:
?
> Oh, what the hell. Check out a thread started around Nov 23 called
> "Help with a Nuerotic Hound..." where I wonder if you guys are talking
> about dogs or Woody Allen's pharmacy. I'll stick with praises and noise
> distraction to train my dog, thank you.
>
>                        ----------

> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing.  He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss

> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had a pointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

 lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
 For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
 pass it through the crate door.  Attach a line to
 it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
 if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar,"  Lynn K.

          "Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

                  <except when it is>

     "Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
     just to be able to handle the dogs.  For example,
     we need to crate train a dog immediately because
     they are usually in need of medical care and they
     are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
     necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

          "Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

                  <except when it is>

    "So what?  Whoever said that it's right to
    always not confront?  We sure can try, but
    a dog who knows a command and growls when
    given it is certainly being confrontational".
    You can't simply walk away and pretend it
    didn't happen or leave it for later work in
    every situation." Lynn K.

              --------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.)  But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

           ----------------

From: "Deltones" <vibrov...@hotmail.com>
Date: 2 Dec 2005 10:55:41 -0800
Subject: Re: In defense of Jerry Howe's methods

Mary Healey wrote:
> I'm still asking for 5 original posts from people here at least 5
> years to support your initial contention (NOT HURTING DOGS TO TRAIN

THEM).  You're 0 for 2, so far.

That's 2 in 2 as far as I'm concerned but hey, if you insist. I'm
really curious to see what will be the justification this time. So far
we have:

Limited choking? Hey, it's limited, As
Neo would say: Woah, there is no choke.

Dogs pumped full of prozac? Hey, they're trippin
man. Remember Woodstock. Euh.... Woodwhat?

E-Collar? I'm sure some of you will come up with: But my
dog look so pretty with an electrified perm. Swoooon.

So on with the fun.  Taken from the "Collars" thread,
started by Perry Templeton June 20 2005

Denis
                    ------------

> What does the "choke" in the "choke chain" stand for, then?
> Lucy

one reason I call them slip collars.  Their is a correction involved,
and while it causes momentary discomfort, does not choke the dog.
OTOH, it is CAPABLE fo being used to do that, should a situation
warrant it.
--
Janet B
----------

And here's another one from the same author,
taken from the same thread.

---------

167. Janet B
 Jun 21, 12:03 pm   show options
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:40:11 +0100, "Alison"

<Ali...@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk>, wrote:
>  I'm just wondering why you had to use choke chains to train"your
> dogs especially as they are so small.

Oh geez - let's see - how many JRTs act like alligators at the end of
a leash?  I personally prefer prong collars.

----------

Let's go for the hat trick with the same author, taken from the same
thread:

----------

141. Janet B
Jun 27, 10:01 pm

I don't use choke chains.  Not quite true - I use a jeweler's hex link

on Franklin at times - it's puuuuuurty.    I know the "sound" thing
and all, and when training a dog in a non-group setting, that sound
may be a factor, but I think it fails in the context of a group class.

So, I prefer the better fitting nylon slip collars, and very often,
pinch collars (small link unless it's a freaky dog, then they need
the  milder medium link).

But I use e-collars too.  With one of my dogs and with some clients.
For circumstances where a physical collar and leash is not the right
answer.  I'm sure Lucy has no clue what THAT means!
--
Janet B
----------

HOWEDY janet,

Looks like you and your pals have gone totally INSANE again:

Janet B wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:44:14 -0500, Janet B
> <j...@bestfriendsdogobedience.com>, clicked their heels and said:
> > Since you quoted me repeatedly, where does it say I beat dogs, choke
> > dogs, scream at dogs, etc?  Thanks for your clarification.
.
> responding to my own post, I had to go back and look at the original
> post, to remind myself what "we" are all accused of doing:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Beat the living crap out of?  hardly - no hitting exists

       "Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
       professora gingold.

     "BethF" <b...@NOT-SO-bad-dawgs-in-ak.com>
     wrote in message
     news:v4r8kkfr257e1a@corp.supernews.com...

     Kyle,  FWIW, i thought it was pretty funny,
     and i often call my little dog the turd, because
     he is one. Some folks think its HORRRIBLE i
     would insult my dog like that so i guess its just a
     matter of personality.

     Kyle, the best way to teach him to stay away is to
     step on him once. Seriously.

"Whatever Motivates The Dog, But I Daresay Most
Of The Dogs I Have In Classes Just Aren't That
Interested In Praise."

Maybe that's what we should do - hold back the dobie
girl so that Izzy can put Simon in his place.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," mustang sally.

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars

Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63h8ekqiforibadrff2@4ax.com...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-
righteous, this post shows and absence of knowledge
in the differences in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps
a lack of ability to perceive same.

The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to
whom corrections and discomfort, even pain, were
unimportant does not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about
dogs as you think you do, and you surely don't know
a damn thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with
one of her housemates; that dog had no fear or
anything, and pain incurred during a fight meant
nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories.  The fact that
you, Alison, continue to say things to people such as
what you said to Theresa about causing her dog to
suffer (at least I guess that's what you meant by
"you cause your dog suffers" - - must be the King's
English you guys talk about over there) means that
you are an ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person
who is not worth further notice.

        Sally Hennessey

Nope.  No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

"Janet Boss offered a pat on the back, commenting that
ultimately it wasn't Kate's decision.  Whose was it? I asked.
Why, it was Teena's, averred Janet.

Janet was in an exculpatory frame of mind because she
contributed to this travesty herself, by advising Kate to
repeat the aggression trigger (grooming) on a daily basis.

It's all in the archives.

Now these two are spouting off about what kind of e-collars
they like to use on their dogs.  Well, I've got an AC Delco
model that would be just right for Janet or Kate.  BZZZZzzt!
I'd have to find it though, and I can't remember if I left
it in my underground bunker or the crawlspace under my
house," Charlie.

Here's janet's PARTNER:

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

sinofabitch writes:
> > What I have said- repeatedly - is that he
> > took posts from two different people,
> > took pieces of them out of context,

Of curse. QUOTED. You wanna see it in context?

> > cobbled them together,

No. There was WON DIRECT QUOTE.

> > then added his own words:

"Neatly," and "Smartly."

> > and a fake signature.

"sinofabitch" instead of sionnach.

> > Which is exactly what he did.

INDEEDY. That's HOWE COME you deny it.

> > The actual quote is misleading

That so?

> > when taken out of context,

We'd been talkin abHOWET beatin the dog with a shoe...

> > and Jerry's faked "quote"

The WON sinofabitch totally DENIES.

> > is downright meaningless.

Only if you're a MENTAL CASE.

Here's Jerry's version

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My
Right Arm Over The Lab's Shoulder,
Grabbed Her Opposite Foot With My
Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into
Her Throat And Said "GRRRR!" And
Neatly Nipped Her Ear," sinofabitch.

 Here's yours:

"I dropped the leash, threw my
right arm over the Lab's shoulder,
grabbed her opposite foot with my
left hand, rolled her on her side,
leaned on her, said "GRRRR!" and
nipped her ear.
--Sara Sionnach

"The actual quote is misleading when taken out of context"

See?

> Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog
> in 10 Minutes a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog
 I Do Not Believe There Is A Single Circumstance
 Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything But
 Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want
 to choke or beat a dog, or how any trainer could
 possibly get a good working dog by making them
 unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
 frosty dahl.

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
> regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
> ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really ard dogs
 we have trained require much more frequent
 and heavy application of pressure (PAIN j.h.)
 to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing
authority, and the job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,  less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them
more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell
instead of your thumb even get a studded collar
and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so
urgent that resisting your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready
Right Hand,  As it catches on, try using the stick
and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the stick
and seems totally reliable without any ear pinch,
you are finished

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly under the chin,
say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because
the ear is getting tender, or the dog has decided
it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
 professora gingold.

  terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
 "Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
 something you twisted out of context, because you
 are full of bizarro manure."

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:

"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

       "Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
       Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
       With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
       discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like a
raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT on
his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar or pop him in the snout with the heel
of your palm.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

           BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

> > You're scary Marilyn.
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual.
> > I feel very sorry for her and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack
Wouldn't Have Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't
Take It. I Still Crate Him Because Otherwise I Fear
He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

       "Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
       Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
       A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
       But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
       author: "CourteHOWES Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What  does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."
           --Mike Dufort
             author of the zero selling book
             "CourteHOWES Canines"

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

        "Rocky" <2...@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
        news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...
         >
         > Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:
         > > When you compare using sound and
         > > praise to solve a problem with using
         > > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
         > > how can you criticize the use of sound?

         > There's nothing more to be said, then.
         > You've made up your mind.

         > But you've impressed me by mentioning
         > that you're a professor with 30 years of
         > experience.

         > So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?
         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         >> I do know that hitting, hurting your dog
         >> will often make the dog either aggressive
         >> or a fear biter, neither of which we want
         >> to do.
         >
         > And neither does anyone else, Jerome.
         > No matter what Jerry Howe states.
         >
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
         > doubt, please provide a quote (an
         > original quote, not from one of Jerry
         > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
         > shows a regular poster promoting or
         > using an abusive form of training.
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.
         >
         > So, can you cite some examples of
         > people recommending "shock collars,
         > hanging, and punishment"?
         > --
         > --Matt.  Rocky's a Dog.