Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / May 2006

                      COPROPHAGIA

                    Dr. Mike Richards
             Encyclopedia of Canine Veterinary
                  Medical Information
                      JERRYIZED
                 Big-Time <{); ~ ) >

That's EZ to EXXXPLAINE. Coprophagia is CAUSED BY mishandling
therefore the folks who STUDY coprophagia do so on accHOWENT
of THEY DON'T KNOW sh.t abHOWET dog behavior otherWIZE they'd
have the ANSWERS, not just the questions <{); ~ ) >

Cites please, Dr. Mike?

Right. But despite the lack of scientific studies
it DOES seem giving some poo eaters a daily enzyme
may stop the behavior.

Bored dogs SLEEP.

That's sheer IDIOCY. Dogs ARE predators.
They often live in packs and share mommy
duties. Mom dogs eat puppy poo to clean
HOWES, not hide the EVIDENCE of puppys <{); ~ ) >

Seems they LIKE the taste. That's only natural.

Yum!

Critters like deer horse cow kat even duck poop TASTES GOOD.

Mom dogs eat puppy poo to clean HOWES, not hide
the EVIDENCE of puppys. Puppys and children often
eat poo once or twice just because it's there <{);  ) >

No. Poo eatin EXXXCECPT as described above is CAUSED
by common HOWEsbreakin methods <{); ~ ) >

That means we can EXXXTINGUISH the behavior NEARLY INSTANTLY.

Only on accHOWENT of it's CAUSED BY LIVING WITH PEOPLE.

It's an AVERSIVE. Aversives DON'T WORK.

IT SHOULD BE FORBIDDEN.

The idea is IDIOCY. You can't treat EVERY pooper with aversives.

That'd make sense if it works any better than FORBID.

Yeah. It's in your own FREE COPY of The Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.

It's only heelpful in REINFORCING THE UNDESIRABLE BEHAVIOR.

That's sheer idiocy. That'll TRAIN the dog to TRY
to eat his poop so you can GIVE HIM HIS COOKIE.

You mean runnin a few steps and sittin for a COOKIE.

You think dogs got short memories?

That's RIDICULHOWES.

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's dogs LOVE hot sauce.

NO PROBLEMO if your dog LIKES hot sauce and
you don't mind playin with his doody <{); ~ ( >

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/12/21
Subject: Re: Doc Dermer's offer

In article <tfR74.1$W64....@typhoon3.tampabay.rr.com> "Jerry Howe"

<j...@cfl.rr.com> writes:

First, I punish behavior, not dogs.

Second, I rarely issue corrections.

Third, as time goes on my dog uses the pillow less frequently.

I would say he uses it about once a month. Finally, I'm not
really concerned about my dog's masturbating; I don't find
such dog behavior offensive.  Eating dog poop, for me, is
another story. And the rate of that behavior has also
diminished with time. :-)

--Marshall

From:           Paul B
Date:           Thurs, Oct 19 2000 12:00 am
Email:          "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>

I can't understand why anyone should have to follow their dogs
about picking up their poo everytime they go in the backyard .
I clean up every day or every other day, we have a large yard.
My dogs have no more inclination to eating their own poo than
I do.  They never have.  They used to love a nice fresh cow pat
or cat poop during walkies but it was really not a big deal to
make them find that behaviour undesirable.

I'm too busy to be picking up dog poo everytime they go, besides
they are given the run of the yard (and inside, via a dog door)
while we are at work so of course they poo outside then too, so
there's no way I could pick it up before they get it if that was
their "thing".

People come here asking for advice, "How do I stop my dog from
eating poo?" and they want to know how to train the dog so it
stops , not get stupid comments like " pick up the poo so it
won't eat it".

I assume most posters have more than a wafer of intelligence
and realise that picking up the poo b4 the dog does is not a
very practical solution but realise how obvious a suggestion
like that is.

Training dogs not to eat sh.t of any kind is not that hard.
The fact that you don't clean up after your dog everytime it
goes in the backyard does not mean you are a disgusting SOB,
a couple of dog poo's lying in the yard for a day is not going
to spark a national health hazard.

Paul.

--

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog eats poo!
Date: 2000-12-05 00:40:48 PST

I used sound distraction to stop my 2 dogs eating cow poo
during walkies. I posted here a while ago explaining how I
managed to control them from eating it but there were a lot
of sceptics.  If your interested I'll be glad to tell you
what worked for me, just let me know and I'll post a thread
on this NG.

Paul
             --------

From:           Paul B
Date:           Sat, Oct 21 2000 2:18 am
Email:          "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>

The sound distraction and praise method he uses is VERY effective,
I use those techniques on my dogs and the results are great.  From
teaching a dog to recall to preventing unwanted behaviours (sh.t
eating, eating the cats food, growling when taking a bone from a
dog, jumping up, even escaping from the property, any behaviour).

To say sound distraction and praise methods don't work is pure
ignorance.

I can understand you not liking Jerry and being pissed off with
the posts he submits but please keep things in context and don't
slam a technique just because you can't stand the person suggesting
using it.

Paul.

               ------------

Subject:        to Jerry Howe
From:           MArtog
Date:           Wed, Jan 17 2001 12:51 pm
Email:          MArtog <mar...@my-deja.com>

Just wanted to say thanks. The method you told me to stop
my dog from eating my other Labs sh-t in the backyard has
worked well.

She has also improved greatly when off leash out in the woods.
She still sniffs (of course), but I rarely need to stop her
from anything else.

I've always been diligent about watching her, and cleaning
up the yard, but ya just can't be there every second. And
she is quick! So, thanks again for the advice.

I feel more confident now when I turn my back.

And to all you folks going yea, sure, right.

THIS IS NOT A TROLL POST. HE gave me advice.

It worked. Plain and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

So Jerry, allthough I don't lurk here, I'm sure
you're still putting up with DogButt and his ilk.

So good keep up the good work!

Off course DogButt will read this, even thoe it doesn't
have his name on it. Cause he thinks he owns the group.

So to you DogButt.........Well,,,,never mind.

You're already a loser. I don't need to tell you that.

Please feel free to correct my spelling/grammer, etc.
Yes, goodbye, good riddance, blah blah blah.

Later.....
MArtog

             ----------------

From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.

I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".

Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).

The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point
at the mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".

That made him afraid to relieve himself in the
house or infront of me.

After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.

When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".

This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking.  That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.

You've been a blessing to all of us.

AIMEE

            ===================

From:           Paul
Date:           Wed, Dec 6 2000 12:00 am
Email:          "Paul B" <NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz>

I'm not exactly sure why Jerry is saying to ignore me, it's his
advice that I found was the most successful.  During walks in a
particular park the dogs would come across fresh cow pats and
munch away happily.

To stop this I'd set them up, I'd find a nice fresh cow turd and
stand next to it, when the dogs came over and saw it they would
start to munch, at the onset of this I'd chuck a throw chain near
the dog to distract it and praise straight away, the reason for
the praise is the dog stops eating as soon as it hears the distraction
so I'm praising that behaviour, the not eating.

I'd set them up again and repeat, but make the sound come from
a  different direction, maybe the first time chuck the chain to
the right of the dog, the next time to the left, then behind etc,
it's the randomness that is effective and always sincerely praise
immediately.

Now when I walk through the park they leave the turds alone,
they aren't interested in them anymore due to the distraction
training.  Don't let the dog know that you made the sound, the
sound just "occurs" this is important as it removes "you" out
of the problem.

Paul

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Date: 1999/07/14
Subject: Re: Puppy adolescence

In article <378CB7A8.757C6...@earthlink.net>

jillbr...@earthlink.net
writes:

My dog almost always comes when called. I would assume
that this is because coming is often consequated with
some form of reinforcement like food, petting, the
opportunity to play a game, etc.

But there are some times when he does not come.

These are infrequent. What do I do? I say, "bad dog"
and the moment he starts coming I say "good dog."

Why is "bad dog" effective?

When my dog was a puppy and he did not obey a command,
that was in his repertoire, I would say "bad dog" and
pick him up by the back of his neck and deliver a brief,
"harsh," lecture.

I would assume that in the process, I established "bad
dog" as a powerful conditioned punisher. I also did the
"bad dog" harsh lecture routine, when he would eat his
poop which he seemed to do quite often.

My dog, a Havanese, is quite a "softy" so I quickly
discovered that not much of a "lecture" was needed
to establish "bad dog" as a conditioned punisher.

I should also note that I said "bad dog" in various
ways, including near whispers. The net result is that
"bad dog" functions as a conditioned punisher even
when whispered.

So, if my dog just "sits there" when I say "Max come"
and then I whisper "bad dog," the vocalization in
principle punishes the ongoing behavior and so the dog
is disposed to do something else and that something else
is almost always following the previously issued command.

(You really don't want to issue the same command multiple
times without some consequences for failing to comply, for
then your dog will initially ignore your commands!)

I am NOT a dog trainer. I am a behavioral psychologist
(Associate Professor) who has loved dogs all my life.

I write this because it is likely that Jerry Howe, who
apparently opposes all forms of punishment, will post
a follow-up to this post.

His follow-up will likely not directly answer your
question but instead refer you to his poorly written
training manual or his magic black box that putatively
cures nearly every canine problem.

His follow up, unfortunately is also likely to personally
attack me. You are free, of course, to form your own
opinions and follow Jerry's advice.

I want you to know that although I have used punishment,
infrequentely and in limited ways, my dog is strongly
bonded to me. He follows me everywhere, he sleeps with
me, he cuddles at night with me, and he loves to perch
himself on my legs, much like a cat, when I'm reading a
book or talking to folks with my feet outstretched.

I don't see where the limited use of punishment has
harmed him in any general way. Perhaps, the limited
punishment I have used together with all the postive
reinforcement I have provided for "coming" and "going
down" in the context of drills, in all sorts of settings,
and under all sorts of circumstances, will someday save
his precious life.

I hope this post is helpful (also see below). Diane
Blackman, Avrama Gingold, Paulette Nolan, Ludwig Smith,
Lynne K. and others regularly post great advice here.

Individually we sometimes make mistakes, but collectively
I think we offer a variety of viable approaches limited
mainly by our inability to be with you and your pooch at
your home.

Best wishes,

Marshall

From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -

Re: Am I expecting to much

Hi Jerry,

When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie.  I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.

It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.

It really does work.

He was very confused at first, wondering what he
had done to get the praise.

But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.

Dogs are funny, but people are too.  Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.

Thanks,

N

=========

From: "Ray" <mikeflemi...@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:41:46 GMT
Subject: re: Jerry Howe

Jerry, I will say this.  You catch alot of flak in
this newsgroup and I've been peeping in here for 4
months since I got my Mastiff.  I don't know you or
pretend to know you but the things that I've tried
that you've suggested HAS worked.

I've had dogs in the past that I bribed with food
and even spanked with a newspaper and honestly,
that didn't work.

The pack exercise worked, and getting my dog to
come to me is no problem after I used your exercise.

All of this WITHOUT food treats.

Even the "non-physical" praise was foreign to me, but
I see why it's a good idea.  I can honestly tell that
this dog is more in tune with me and what I want him
to do and how our relationship should work.

Just wanted to say Thanks, and I may need your help
on a few more issues as they arise, like the border
training.

               AND LIKE THIS:

ballzde...@gmail.com wrote:

You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >

Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command as
a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.

                 AND LIKE THIS:

Hi, Jerry.

I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).

For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').

Best, ben

        -------------

       "Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
       news:

       I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
       dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
       I do not know what started the problem but he came
       aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
       snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
       and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
       ad I took him with me everywhere.

       At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
       Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
       clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
       it was not working on his aggression problem.

       I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
       trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
       They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
       and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
       suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
       working as he was becoming more aggressive.

       I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
       away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
       on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
       use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

       I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
       ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
       LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
       University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
       had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
       gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
       have the people stop until he could get in control using
       treats, and work on clicker training.

       At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
       the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
       would not come when I called him and would run away when
       I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
       neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
       hasn't trained her dog"

       I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
       were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
       were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
       said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
       say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
       responsible for him."

       *(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
       DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

       As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
       going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
       Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
       Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
       He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
       not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

       The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
       I had been working for 18 months!

       Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
       from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
       I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
       blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
       can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

       I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
       -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
       looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
       on by.

       When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
       me like "you must be out of your mind"

       The results can make a believer!!!

       Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
       Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
       in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

       He just seemed to not notice any one.

       When people talked to him or ask his name he would
       look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

       I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
       enjoy life out in public.

       If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
       was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
       Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
       toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

       My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
       dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
       out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

       I know most people would have given up on him a long time
       ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
       but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

       I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

       ================================

       From: Linda Daniel
       To: Jerry Howe
       Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
       Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

       Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
       to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
       save so many lives.  I know at times I was so frustrated I
       thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
       have but many people would have.  The world just does not
       know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
       solve problems.

       We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
       -just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
       you could meet us would be great.  I drive so I would be
       happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

       We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
       right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
       scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
       would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
       to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

       He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
       those on rollerblades!  I have always used a gentle leader
       in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
       grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

       Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
       stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose.  He never
       pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
       a hard time getting him going--at times  I think he could
       smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

       I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

       I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
       walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
       a problem with other people and dogs.

       I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
       to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
       around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
       treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
       coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
       and not move until we backed away-

       - can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
       until I get his attention with treats.

       They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
       but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
       him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
       sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
       to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
       heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

                 ----------------------------------

            All truth passes through three stages.
                First, it  is ridiculed.
              Second, it is violently opposed.
         Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
                   -Arthur Schopenhauer

       "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth:
               I came not so send peace, but a sword.
        "For I am come to set a man at variance against
        his father, and the daughter against her mother
        and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
      "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
                       - Matthew 10:34-36.

                  The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

          All truth passes through three stages.
                   First, it is ridiculed.
             Second, it is violently opposed.
         Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
                  -Arthur Schopenhauer

            "Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
                 even tho it's a hopeless task,
                   in this system of things.
                 As long as man is ruling man,
            there will be animals (and humans!)
                    abused and neglected. :-(
                    Your student," Juanita.

          "If you've got them by the balls their hearts
                      and minds will follow,"
                          John Wayne.

Yours,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
Human And Animal Behavior
Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory,
BIOSOUND Scientific,
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092

             The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

   ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
       ,-._,-,
        V)"(V
        (_o_)  Have a great day!
         /  V)
        (l l l)        Your Puppy Wizard. <{YPW); ~ } >
        oo-oo