Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / June 2006

HOWEDY dra. deborah, DVMalpracticioner, formerly Captain deb,
US army DVM malpracticioner, liar, coward, animal murderin fraud,

HOWE do we know the kitty kats NEED worm poison?

You mean they didn't TEACH you that at vet school?

You mean INSTEAD of TESTING them for worms FIRST?

                   Research_Laboratory

"Oral bovine lactoferrin is being hyped up here for
humans as an immunostimulant, "all natural" and
therefore perfectly safe, of course! (which it may
well be, I don't know much about  it)

Anyway, they are both milk proteins as far as I know,
so I'd imagine they are somewhat related, but I'm just
not sure," Deborah, DVM.

From:  J. Martin
Date:  Mon, May 19 2003 9:04 pm
Email:   "J. Martin" <jmar...@fake.address>
Groups:   alt.med.veterinary

Oral administration of bovine lactoferrin for treatment of
intractable stomatitis in feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV)
positive and FIV-negative cats.

Am J Vet Res 57[10]:1443-6 1996 Oct

Sato R ; Inanami O ; Tanaka Y ; Takase M ; Naito Y
OBJECTIVE: To study the effects of oral administration
of bovine lactoferrin (LF) on intractable stomatitis
in feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV)-positive and
FIV-negative cats, and phagocytosis of neutrophils
in healthy and ill cats, simultaneously. ANIMALS: 7
ill cats with diagnosis of intractable stomatitis (4
FIV positive and 3 FIV negative) and 7 healthy,
FIV-negative cats. PROCEDURE:

LF (40 mg/kg ot body weight) was applied topically to the oral
mucosa of cats with intractable stomatitis daily for
14 days and improvement of clinical signs of disease (pain-related
response, salivation, appetite, and oral inflammation), expressed
by scoring from 1 to 4, were evaluated. Assay of neutrophil
phagocytosis was examined before and 2 weeks after starting LF
treatment, using nonopsonized hydrophilic polymer particles (2
microns). RESULTS: Oral administration of LF improved intractable
stomatitis in all 4 respects. Phagocytic activity of neutrophils
increased after LF treatment.

This effect was observed in healthy and ill (FIV positive
and FIV negative) cats. CONCLUSION AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE:

Oral administration of LF improved intractable stomatitis
and concurrently enhanced the host defense system. Topical
application of LF to oral mucous membrane is useful as a
treatment for intractable stomatitis even in FIV-positive
cats.

HOWEDY dra deborah former Captain deb, US Army DVM
malpracticioner, liar, coward, animal murderin fraud,

Surgical sexual mutilation for non medical reasons is UNETHICKAL
UNNECESSARY RISKY MUTILATION, UNJUSTIFIABLE INAPUPRIATE
MALPRACTICE which ONLY benefits greedy INGNORAMEHOWES
GREEDY ILL TRAINED veterinary malpracticioners, like youreslf,
dra. deb, DVM <{) : ~ (  >

The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard got MAGICKAL NUMBERS.
HOWEver, HE AIN'T fixin to share them with folks who'd ABUSE them.

That's preposterHOWES dra. deb DVM. There's ONLY TWO kinds of
veterinarians. We got ETHICAL veterinarians who LOVE animals and
treat them with RESPECT and we got VETERINARY MALPRACTICIONERS
like yourself who HURT INTIMDIATE MUTILATE and MURDER innocent
defenseless dumb critters <{) : ~ ( >

What's the rush, dra. deb DVM? There's six months between cycles.

Naaah? DO TELL??? Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME he hired you.

Of curse, on accHOWENT of you're the second sort, the VETERINARY
MALPRACTICIONER who INAPUPRIATELY MUTILATES and MURDERS
innocent defenseless dumb critters <{) : ~ ( >

Yeah, but THAT AIN'T HOWE COME ETHICAL veterinarians DO NOT
surgically sexually mutilate bitches IN HEAT dra. dev DVM. The REASON
ETHICAL veterinarians DO NOT surgically sexually mutilate bitches in
heat EXXXCEPT under EMERGENCY conditions is on accHOWENT of
it's RISKY to do so. Bitches in heat CANNOT HEEL sufficiently till
their
cycle is LONG PAST.

OF CURSE HE LIKES IT. THAT'S HIS BREAD AN BUTTER, dra. deb DVM.
The PREDICTABLE consequential INFECTIONS will bring the CUSTOMER
back into the CLINIC for further MEDICAL MALPRACTICE TREATMENTS.

That's a load of CRAP dra. deb DVM.

Naaah? DO TELL???

Naaaah?

Well well well, THAT would BRING THE UNLUCKY CUSTOMER BACK INTO
the VETERINARY MALPRACTICE for a REPEAT SURGERY, KERCHING!

BWEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

Malpracticioners like you bums GOTTA be PUT HOWETA BUSINESS.
Subject: Barkin - dra. deb DVM, dra. houpt DVM, Cornell, JERRYIZED

From:        The Puppy Faerie
Date:        Thurs, Nov 24 2005 7:57 pm

HOWEDY dra deborah former Captain deb, US Army DVM,

INDEEDY. There's some highly IGNORAMEHOWES self serving posters here.

Not meanin to sound like Noah, CITE WON, please?

Well La, Di Da???

You'd have to be freakin G-D or a PSYCHIC to KNOW HOWE
COME a dog goes into SEIZURES for no apparent reason.
Lucky thing we as SCIENISTS don't subscribe to THAT BUNK.

Money makes the doGgamened world go RHOWEND, don't
it, dra deb. Life was SO EZ when the US Army paid
all the bills and did all the necessary labwork.

I THINK it's SPELLED T-O-X-I-C. Am I not correct,
dra deb, DVM, former Captain deb, US Army DVM?

Sometimes even SCIENTISTS PREY, don't they, dra deb, DVM.

BECAUSE IT'S T-O-X-I-C, is it NOT, dra deb, DVM?

Monthly seizures are NORMAL, are they NOT, dra deb, DVM?

SEE???

Sometimes even for SCIENTISTS, PREYIN WORKS, don't it, dra deb, DVM.

As SCIENTISTS, can we cross our fingers, dra deb, DVM?

Naaaah? DO TELL??? It ain't even been a month yet.
Could be this SEIZURE was JUST A FLUKE, kinda like
a case of BAD LUCK, eh dra deb, DVM?

That's akin to wearin a chastidy belt to prevent dalliances,
at least to my UN SCIENTIFIC mind, bein just a highly un-
educated backyard shade tree sh.t kickin dog trainer who
can barely SPELL phenobarbital.

There's some thirty phamacuticals which can
be substituted for phenobarb which may have
less risky side effects, of curse, that's
just a UN EDUCATED GUESS, not bein a SCIENTIST
an all. Would you agree, dra deb, DVM?

Perhaps her vet should look into other less toxic
substitutes for phenobarb, stuff she can give her
dog every day that will replace both the penobarb
and the SHOCK COLLAR, eh dra deb, DVM? Rumor under
the SHADE TREE has it that clomicalm offers a 15%
chance of substituting for both, but that's just
rumor, and 15% chance of curing a life threatenin
MEDICAL PROBLEM probably wouldn't be worth the
risk. I certainly wouldn't BET MY LIFE on a 15%
chance of survival. I might not even risk my life
for a 2% chance, seein as I'm gettin older and WIZER.

Oh? NO PROBLEMO! We can EXXXTINGUISH barkin NEARLY
INSTANTLY. Barkin is a SYMPTOM of ANXIETY, it means
SUMPTHIN'S WRONG. Self confident dogs DO NOT BARK
unnecessarily.

INDEED, shall we?

Seems jencoffman GOT IT BASSACKWARDS, dra deb, DVM.
The SHOCK COLLAR causes the FEAR which causes the
SEIZURES as it REPRESSES the anxiety relief FEAR
BARKING. Take off the SHOCK COLLAR and the dog AIN'T
GONNA SEIZE. THEN all we got to CURE is the excessive
inapupriate barkin and THAT'S EZ, dra deb, DVM.

Oh, well THAT all depends on which side of
the MONEY TREE you're standin under, dra deb,
DVM. My backyard shade tree never grew money...
just provided lots of shade so I could WORK
an honest job trainin dogs and rehabilitatin
temperament and behavior problems, LIKE SEIZURES
from STRESS, dra deb, DVM.

Yeah, it might take a couple HOWERS to train the
dog not to bark from FEAR when neighbors come an go.

LUCKY THING we got The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
to rely on when we DON'T KNOW NUTHIN about a
temperament or behavior problem, ain't that
correct, dra deb, DVM.

Ooops! There we go relyin on LUCK, eh? As a
SCIENTIST we certainly can't enterTRAIN LUCK.

Naaah?

Kinda like she's had a SHORT CIRCUIT of her BRAIN?

LUCKY THING A DOG IS A DOG.

Ooops! There we go again, enterTRAININ LUCK, tsk, tsk.

jencoffman means the ANXIETY which CAUSES the BARKIN.

That won't matter when she develops her cruciate
ligament DIS-EASE or Addisons / Cushings syndrome
and urinary tract / bladder stones. She won't feel
like runnin around much.

Kinda like she's BURNED HOWET.

Permit The Amazing Puppy Wizard to CONsult HIS
CRYSTAL BALL. The ANSWER IS NO. Ooops! There we
go again believin in UN SCIENTIFIC superstitHOWES
ideas. As SCIENTISTS that'll NEVER fly.

INDEED. Let's PREY for LUCK.

Naaah, seizures ain't like Breakbone Fever.
They just make every muscle in your body sore
for a few days. Nuthin much to worry about.

LikeWIZE.

INDEED. LikeWIZE.

That's IRRELEVENT, dra deb, DVM.

Just to make sure some leaves fall off that money tree.

Is a SHOCK COLLAR considered a METAbolic problem?
Not bein a SCIENTIST I got NO IDEA HOWE a 50,000Vd.c.
shock to the throat effects their metabolic system.

IN FACT, not bein a SCIENTIST, The Amazing Puppy
Wizard don't even know WHAT a METAboclic system
IS. Might that be sumpthin like adrenal / endocrine
STUFF that causes Cushings / Addisons AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE SYMPTOMS???

Based on the posters CASE HISTORY The Amazing
Puppy Wizard WILL BET HIS LIFE, DOUBLE OR NUTHIN
that her BLOOD WORK IS NORMAL.

Main Entry: id·i·o·path·ic
Pronunciation: "i-dE-&-'pa-thik
Function: adjective

1 : arising spontaneously or from an obscure or
unknown cause : PRIMARY

2 : peculiar to the individual
- id·i·o·path·i·cal·ly  /-'pa-thi-k(&-)lE/ adverb

The Amazing Puppy Wizard will BET HIS LIFE
this dog AIN'T havin idiopathic seizures.

So, it seems these STRESS INDUCED SEIZURES are
more debilitating than epileptic seizures.

INDEED. It's the CONSTANT STRESS caused EVERY TIME
she puts that collar on her dog, dra deb, DVM.

You think money GROWS ON TREES, dra deb, DVM?

FOR WHAT? IDIOCY???

INDEED, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE KNOW THERE'S NUTHIN WRONG
THAT CAN BE DIAGNOSED WITHOUT A doGgamend CRYSTAL BALL.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, dra deb, DVM? They BOTH
INCREASE ANXIETY through PUNISHMENT. EVERY TIME
that collar goes on her neck, EVERY TIME the
neighbor opens a door or walks down the hallway
THE DOG WILL FEAR gettin BOTH SHOCKED AND SPRAYED
due to her pryor CONDITIONING to the shock which
the dog CANNOT DIFFERENTIATE that the collar has
been changed to JUST AN AVERSIVE SPRAY.

We've got CASE HISTORY DATA that SHOWS dogs
react with EXTREME ANNOYANCE to the citronella
OR ANY PUNISHMENT or SO CALLED CORRECTION.

You mean, to cause IATROGENIC SEIZURES:

Main Entry: iat·ro·gen·ic
Pronunciation: (")I-"a-tr&-'je-nik
Function: adjective

Etymology: Greek iatros physician + English -genic:

 induced inadvertently by a physician or surgeon
 or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures

You mean a "FRAGRANCE".

Dogs BARK when they're AFRAID, dra deb, DVM.

All we gotta do is PRAISE the dog and SHE WON'T BARK.
We can CURE her FEAR BARKING IN WON DAY, dra deb, DVM.

Yeah, that DEFINES IATROGENIC SEIZURE. DON'T IT.

EVERY TIME THEY BARK YOU'RE MURDERIN THE DOG, dra deb DVM.

THAT'S VETERINARY MALPRACTICE, dra deb, DVM.

The Insanely Freakin Simply Amazing Grand Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

Subject:           BAD VETERINARY ADVICE

From:        TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWiz...@HotMail.Com
Date:        Wed, Jun 7 2006 9:16 pm
Email:         TheSimplyAmazingPuppyWiz...@HotMail.Com

Subject:                   Vets
Date:           Thurs, Jun 16 2005 11:27 am
From: "YourConscience" You rLast Innocent Honest Question Answered

HOWEDY sticki,

sticki wrote:

WELCOME to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums And SCHOOL
Of HARD KNOCKS And HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH
LABORATORIES <{); ~ ) >

I AM, of curse, The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

Some of them are LIARS and THIEVES, sticki.

LIKE THIS WON:

HOWEDY sharon too, veterinary office manager, mrs veterinarian,

Sharon too wrote:

INDEED, sharon too. Your entire career lifestyle and reputation
DEPENDS on folks NOT BELIEVING The Amazing Puppy Wizard
when he SEZ 90% of your husband's veterinary practice INCOME
is iatrogenic in NATURE, CAUSED BY the ADVICE and INFORMATION
you give your veterinary PRACTICE CUSTOMERS, who's dogs you
needlessly selfishly inapupriately surgically sexually MUTILATE
and advise them to lock their dogs in boxes and choke shock bribe
intimidate hurt and most importantly, TREAT their dog's CHRONIC
STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASES at your husband's veterinary
PRACTICE <{); ~ ) >

Then HE'D CITE the ABUSE by QUOTING HER OWN WORDS as
HE has DONE to you, sharon too, dog abusing mental case.

Like HOWE to HURT their dogs as you teach them,
sharon too. HOWE MUCH would it COST Robin to
see your veterinary husband for separation
anXXXIHOWESNESS, sharon too? Would he refer
her to his PAL the veterinary behaviorist, or would
you just advise her to lock her dog in a box and
spray aversives in her face and SELL her a bunch
of ANTI-PSYCHOTIC medication, sharon too?

You recommened Fred MURDER a innocent defenseless
baby possum his kat rescued by turnin IT loose to fend
for hisself when IT was far to young to survive alone:

                      Research Laboratory

Subject:        EMERGENCY!! What to do with baby Possum?

From:           Sharon
Date:           Tues, May 16 2006 11:30 pm
Email:          "Sharon" <askformya...@nospamhotmail.com>
Groups:         alt.med.veterinary, rec.animals.wildlife,rec.pets

Don't touch wildlife at all. They carry parasites and other organisms.

You should release it back into the woods, but if your
scent is on it, the mother (if she finds it) may reject it.

Your only other alternative is to look up a local wildlife
rehabilitator.

HOWEDY Fred,

Fred Mann wrote:

That was kindly of him! You got yourself a RESCUE kat!

Opossums should be ready for release at 20 to 22 weeks of age.

Thanks to your kat RESCUING him! GOOD JOB! Give your
kitty kat a nice tuna treat or play with him with a feather or
sumpthin, for that good deed!

Good!

You'll first have to get a guesstimate of his age.

8 - 13 weeks - Eyes open, teeth present but still small. Thicker
fur developing with guard hairs beginning to emerge by 13 weeks.
Body LESS THAN 6 inches long EXXXCLUDING TAIL <{); ~ ) >

"Opossums should be ready for release at 20 to 22 weeks of age."

Looks like you'll have him for a while...

Or a few weeks if you don't want to MURDER him as sharon
aka sharon too, veterinary malpractice office manager and
Mrs. veterinary malpracticioner and animal murderin MENTAL
CASE advises you to do to the LUCKY critter <{); ~ ) >

If he's young enough he'll have no fear and will eat.

Here's EVERYTHING you gotta know EXXXCEPT the warnings
abHOWET possible rabies etc that sharon was kindly enough
to insufficiently warn you abHOWET, stuff like IF HE DIES
SUDDENTLY or bites you and escape better get yourself AND
rescue kitty kat to the HOWEspital or get his body to the state
laboratory for rabies testing.

Care and feeding: http://www.awrc.org/Baby%20Opossums.htm

Not so fast, you can TRAIN him JUST LIKE a dog or kitty:

WELCOME To The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums.

I'm Jerry Howe, The Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ )  >

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{) : ~ }  >

                        <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
                   <{#}: ~ } >           < { ~ :{@}>
             <{#}: ~ } >                       < { ~ :{@}>
  <{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u  < { ~ :{@}>
             <{#}: ~ } >                       < { ~ :{@}>
                   <{#}: ~ } >           < { ~ :{@}>
                        <{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>

Thank you for not following sharon too's uncaring
self centered idiotic animal murderin advice <{); ~ ) >

       The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

But that ain't all, sharon aka sharon too, veterinary malpractice
office
manager, mrs. veterinary malpracticioner, animal abuser, lyin fraud
and animal murderin mental case:

HOWEDY sharon aka sharon too,

Sharon wrote:

You mean instead of just taking his temp himself?
Normal for dogs is 101.5 - 102.5, if I'm not mistaken,
being a non professional veterainary malpracticioner.

Surgical sexual mutilation causes health and temperament problems.

That's a WIZE idea. Might as well remove his eyes
so he don't get catarcts in his old age.

It's INSANE! The dog stands a GREATER RISK of
DYING from this insane mutilation than cancer.
Cancers are CAUSED by STRESS and toxic environment.

The veterinary malpractice business must be
suffering terribly in these bear market times,
eh sharon too, veterinary office manager, Mrs.
veterinarian?.

You're nothing but a FRAUD a LIAR and animal abuser.

HOWEDY Lucy,

lucyaa...@claque.net wrote:

We was talkin abHOWET breakin obsessive compulsive behaviors.

While that WOULD work, the operator wouldn't know WHEN
the brain is begining to drift into OCD mode. The best
practice would be to do some anchoring and triggering
visulization techniqes.

We was also talkin abHOWET CURING separation anXXXIHOWESNESS
NEARLY INSTANTLY, as Robin and Lucy BOTH REPORTED they DONE
when applying The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy / Bed
Time Calming / Submissive Urination / Fear Of Thunder / Car
Sickness Technique <{); ~ ) >

SHAAAZZZAAAMMM?

Perhaps sharon too is CONCERNED that The Amazing Puppy
Wizard is recommending NON PHYSICAL scientific and
psychological conditioning techniques INSTEAD of sendin
HOWER readers to their vetrinarian to BUY anti psychotic
medications and run THOWESANDS of dollars in inapupriate
unnecessary tests...

Fully 90% of the veterinary heelth care industry is SELF PERPETUATING
NEEDLESS TESTING and BOGUS TREATMENTS CAUSED BY the
irresponsible handing and training ADVICE given by their veterinary pet

malpracticioner professionals.

You AIN'T gonna see these EXXXPERTS reply to The Amazing
Puppy Wizard on accHOWENT of HE QUOTES their lies and
abuses and IDENTIFIES EXXXPOSES and DISCREDITS them right
off the bat.

Belly up to the bar, folks, it's all on the HOWES today.

Yeah. Thems the QUOTES The Amazing Puppy relies on to
DISCREDIT these lying dog abusing punk thug coward
mental cases.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ these MENTAL CASES can
post here all they LIKE, despite that they'll be IDENTIFIED
EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED with EVERY POST they
make... but THAT'S JUST HOWE IT IS when there's a BULLY
in the playgrHOWEND.

Yeah...

sharon too SEZ you shouldn't BELIEVE The Amazing Puppy Wizard.

sharon too MAKES MONEY off of misadvising folks to
surgically sexually mutilate bribe choke crate shock
and spray aversives in their dog's faces...

Well, not EVERY WON PROFITS from HURTING INTIMIDATING
and MURDERING dogs like HOWER veterinary pet professionals.

sharon too's FUTURE is vested in NOT BELIEVING The
Amazing Puppy Wizard. IMAGINE if APUPRIATE handling
and training as NOT taught by HOWER pet professionals
CURED 90% of the veterinary practicioner's BUSINESS?

THEY'D END UP IN THE SOUP LINE.

Interested in CURING ALL temperament and behaivor
problems as well as 90% of their vetrinary medical
EXXXPENSES, to boot.

THAT'S what got sharon too all bent HOWETA shape, Lucy.

Stick arHOWEND, Lucy. The Amazing Puppy Wizard is
fixing to address the LITTLE PROBLEM we got for
HOWER SAR dogs NOT FINDING the victims in the most
fameHOWES searches in history...

         The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

Seems you're not ONLY a DOG ABUSER, but you're
a THIEF and a LIAR. Your veterinary practice CANNOT
CURE separation anXXXIHOWESNESS <{); ~ ) >

INDEED. You're comin from a PSYCHOTIC BREAK from reality,
sharon too. Your entire life is AT STAKE on accHOWENT of
The Amazing Puppy Wizard IDENTIFYING EXXXPOSING and
DISCREDITING you and your university trained HUSTLERS.

You mean, on accHOWENT of Robin REPORTED CURING her
12 year old dog's separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, sharon
too, veterinary office manager, mrs veterinarian?

Would it cost maybe, a hundred dollars a month for the
ANTI-PSYCHOTIC medications and maybe a hundred
or three hundred for useless TESTS and maybe another
couple hundred for your husband's PAL the veterinary
behaviorist to TELL HIM to SELL Robin the ANTI-PSYCHOTIC
medicatons you SELL, sharon too, veterinary office manager,
mrs veterinarian?

HOWE abHOWET the useless unnecessary inapupriate
treatment of hip dysplasia and progressive retinal atrophy
and your INSANE advice to apply systemic toxins JUST
SO YOU CAN MAKE MONEY off your CASH CUSTOMERS,
sharon too, veterinary malpractice office manager and mrs.
veterinary malpracticioner?:

                              Research_Laboratory

Subject:     K9 Advantix 11-22 pounds

Date:           Thurs, May 25 2006 8:10 pm

HOWEDY sharon aka sharon too, veterinary malpractice
office manager, mrs. veterinary malpracticioner, liar,
dog abuser, coward, animal murderin FRAUD mental case,

Sharon wrote:

BWEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

Didn't she BUY the POISON from her veterinary malpracticioner?

It made her dog SICK. Doesn't THAT tell you sumpthin?

It POISONS dogs.

You'd have to be INSANE to do THAT to your own dog.

You think she should hire a lawyer?

Did you MISSPELL LAWYER?

Look up state board of veterinary medical EXXXAMINERS and
ASK THEM HOWE COME their licensed vet POISONED her dog.

THAT'S INSANE. And it's a LIE.

Wouldn't your office GUARANTEE the products THEY SELL???

From:           Sharon
Date:           Sun, Apr 30 2006 11:03 pm
Email:          "Sharon" <askformya...@nospamhotmail.com>

I think it's best to think of garlic as it relates to fleas
like sprinkling sage around the edges of a kitchen to keep
ants out. The ants are still there - alive - procreating,
just like the fleas will be. Further, fleas can cause issues
with the humans in the house. It's better to ask your vet
about a product that will kill all stages of the fleas' life
cycle.

-Sharon

From:           showdogbark -
Date:           Sun, Apr 30 2006

Garlic is not to be used in large does in the mixture I mentioned,
the other things that are offensive to fleas is the Engevta Yeast
and the Flake yeast, some people find just using the two yeasts
enough of a flea deterrent. Powdered garlic is much easier to use
in about one teaspoon to two cups of the yeast mixture. It does
not take much and that is not logical that there is a temptation
to use more as it is not addicting, and as I mentioned it is not
the garlic alone that works it is the mixture of the yeasts along
with it.

The smell of the yeasts is not appealing to fleas. Another
method that works for many people is to take a teaspoon of
the mixture for a severe case and rub it into the dog's fur,
for as I said the fleas do not like the smell, and then after
that feed it to the dog sprinkled on it's food twice a day.

What would a vet know except something that would be
self serving to sell, yeast and garlic do not line
their pockets.

Show Dog

From:           Amy Dahl
Date:           Fri, Jul 2 1999 12:00 am
Email:          Amy Dahl <a...@oakhillkennel.com>

I don't have directly relevant experience, but would like
to suggest the usual--get a second opinion!  Especially
before electing surgery.

I once had an experience involving cataracts and a kitten
which woke me up to how block-headed a veterinary specialist
can be (of course, you have to take my word for something the
vet. ophthalmologist did not).

I had adopted two "rescued" kittens that were found at the
age of about 1 day and raised on a foster mother.  They had
various health problems, did not thrive, etc.  Everything
kind of went together--they were poor, so even with up-to-date
flea treatments couldn't fight off the fleas, so they were
anemic, stayed poor, etc.  When it became clear that loving
care, good food, and flea treatments weren't enough I took
them to my vet (who is very good).  They were four months
old and about as big as the average 5-6 week kitten.

My vet treated them with several things, of which I remember
Ivomec for ear mites and feline Program (which had just come
out), tested and vaccinated for feline AIDS, which I had
never heard of.

The next morning, the male kitten was blind!  The pupils of
his eyes were milky blue--completely clouded by cataracts.
I just happened to have an appointment to CERF a bitch, so
I took the kitten along.  The vet. ophthalmologist told me,
"he's got congenital cataracts."  Well, I know what congenital
means.  I had already explained to her that his eyes had been
fine before taking him to the vet the previous day.  She
didn't say, you're wrong, you didn't notice.  She didn't
acknowledge the discrepancy between my observation and her
statement.  She just repeated "they're congenital cataracts.
He's been this way since birth."  She informed me about the
surgery and the cost--$1600 per eye at that time.

Twilight Zone theme here.  I don't know about the rest of you,
but when face with this level of adamant assertion, I question
what I know.  I was sure he'd been able to jump and climb, that
the bumping into things and crying was new that morning.  When
I got home I called my vet to verify that the cat had been able
to see the previous day.

Because my vet had a couple of emergencies that day (Friday)
I didn't have the kitten put down.  Lo and behold, by Monday
his pupils seemed to respond to light and he wasn't bumping
into things any more!  The cloudiness gradually faded away
to nothing (to my unpracticed eye).

Then the next month I treated him with Program again and the
cataracts came back--not as severe, but this time they left
him with permanent cloudiness in one eye.  My vet called her
ophthalmology professor from vet school and he mentioned the
possibility of "toxic cataracts," certainly not recorded as
a consequence of Program, but some medical treatments
(antibiotics, I think) cause cataracts in animals which are
in poor health--and sometimes these cataracts resolve.

I take the moral of this story to be that, just because
you are talking to a veterinary specialist, doesn't mean
they necessarily know what they're talking about.

--
Amy Frost Dahl    Retriever Trainin  phone: (910) 295-6710
Oak Hill Kennel & Handling   email:  a...@oakhillkennel.com
Pinehurst, NC 28370       (http://www.oakhillkennel.com)

Here's EVERYTHING YOU GOTTA KNOW abHOWET fleas. Here's HOWE
to prevent fleas witHOWET using the dangerHOWES toxins your
veterinary malpracticioner sells to gouge you at the EXXXPENSE
of your dog's heelth and maybe even his life.

Here's a couple interestin CASE HISTORIES and some non toxic advice:

Subject:     Warning Revolution Heartworm Med

From:           LUVAPOOCH
Date:           Sat, Apr 8 2000 3:00 am
Email:          luvapo...@aol.com (LUVAPOOCH)

Kelly Cruzan On 3/15/00 wrote:

I asked my Vet for a Heartworm preventive for my 2 year
old Australian Shepherd, Sage.  They recommended Revolution.
It was applied on 3/15/00.  On 3/20/00 Sage developed a cough,
but she was otherwise fine.

She had had a bath at the Vet on 3/15/00 also, so I decided
to watch her for further symptoms. On 3/23/00 she was fine
until late afternoon when she became quiet and didn't want
to play.

By 7pm that night, she had trouble opening her left eye and
whimpered when she jumped down from the couch or bed.  In
the past, Sage always had a tendency to bruise easily.

She had sensitive skin and worry an area until it bruised.
She had no trouble with her blood clotting and had been
previously spayed.

She now had bruising on her body.  When I took her to the
Vet, he asked if she had been in rat poison.  I informed
him that she was an inside dog and only went out to play
with the kids and to use the bathroom.  My neighbors have
pets and do not put out poisons.  They also asked if she
had had a blow to the head because there was blood in the
whites of her eyes that was not there yesterday.

I stated that she was not hit in the head.  I asked if it
could be the Revolution and was informed that it could not
be.  I told my vet that was the only thing that Sage had
been exposed to.

He did a CBC and her platelets were 87 and WBC count was
27,000. her Hct was 37.  He treated her for infection and
rat poisoning and sent us home.

Within 3 hours she was falling over.  I rushed her back
to the Vet and he kept her until 5pm that afternoon.  I
brought her home after they said she was doing better.

At 6pm she was again falling over and I called my Vet back
and was informed to bring her back the next day.  By 11pm,
she was bleeding from her nose and had vomited with streaks
of bright red blood.   My husband and I drove her to an ER
clinic in Savannah, GA and was told that it was either a tick
born disease or rat poisoning or a blow to the head.

I again asked if could be the Revolution and was informed no.

They kept her and treated her as my vet.  When I called at
6am, I was informed that she was having seizures but she was
otherwise stable.  I was worried about a subdural hematoma
and talked with  my Vet.

He suggested I take Sage to Charleston, SC to see a Specialist.
She arrived there at 4:30pm.  When I gave her history, I again
asked if it could be the Revolution and was informed no.  Later
that night Sage continued to have seizures and she bled into the
orbits of her eyes, but they said their was still hope.

At 6:45am they called and said Sage had arrested and
was on a ventilator. We asked that they let her go.
This has been devastating to my family.

We loved that dog.  She was a family member.  At 10am, the
clinic called and asked for an autopsy.  They informed me
that another dog had died last month there, with symptoms
the same as Sage.  The dog was an inside dog and the only
thing different was that the owner had started Revolution.

The dog died of low platelets and intracrannial
hemorrhage just like Sage.

The vet in Charleston called the Revolution people and
they are paying for Sages autopsy.  They also paid for
the other dogs autopsy. That autopsy showed low platelets
and intracrannial hemorrhage from a toxin. (? Revolution
was the only toxin  the owners had given).

I will not know the results of the autopsy for a month,
but I believe it was the Revolution.  If 2 dogs have died
in the Savannah-Charleston area in the last month, how
many nation wide.

Please spread the word for owners to be careful about
using this drug on their dogs. No dog should suffer
like my Sage suffered.

Thanks for Listening,
Terri Eddy
Rincon, GA

Subject:        Advantix and Mood Change

From: Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory

HOWEDY brian.lange,

brian.la...@gmail.com wrote:

WELCOME to the world of veterinary approved poisons.

Naaah? The EXXXPERTS tell us that's GOOD for dogs.

Yeah. Most of the DOG LOVERS here got DEATHLY ILL and
DEAD DOGS on accHOWENT of their mishandling and inapupriate
veterinary malpractices.

Have you had your dog surgically sexually mutilated yet?

Better hurry. Oh, bye the bye, ONLY LIARS DOG ABUSERS
COWARDS and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LONG TERM
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES post here abHOWETS.

You're welcome!

From:           showdogbark -
Date:           Sun, Apr 30 2006

Garlic is not to be used in large does in the mixture
I mentioned, the other things that are offensive to
fleas is the Engevta Yeast and the Flake yeast, some
people find just using the two yeasts enough of a flea
deterrent. Powdered garlic is much easier to use in
about one teaspoon to two cups of the yeast mixture.
It does not take much and that is not logical that
there is a temptation to use more as it is not addicting,
and as I mentioned it is not the garlic alone that works
it is the mixture of the yeasts along with it.

The smell of the yeasts is not appealing to fleas.

Another method that works for many people is to take
a teaspoon of the mixture for a severe case and rub
it into the dog's fur, for as I said the fleas do not
like the smell, and then after that feed it to the
dog sprinkled on it's food twice a day.

What would a vet know except something that would be
self serving to sell, yeast and garlic do not line
their pockets.

Show Dog

From:           showdogbark
Date:           Sun, Apr 30 2006 6:09 pm
Email:          "showdogbark" <jotnarin...@yahoo.com>

I have used half Engevita Yeast and half Flake yeast
with Garlic Powder, not tablets along with Dulce or
Kelp powder for fleas for years on my dogs and cats
in their diet daily, and along with absolutelty no
feas, they love the taste.

Often if a dog comes to visit and they are not hungry
due to being left without their owner and are avoiding
their food, just putting the mix on their food makes
them very interested in eating. My friends have used
this mixture for years and also no fleas.

I certainly agree with Jerry that chemical so called
solutions to fleas are only of help to the chemical
companies and the pockets of vets to be fattened.

Also Dr. Pitcairn is a fabulous source of info. But
when it comes to fleas it is the above mixture I
mentioned that for 20 years has been my solution
and my friends solutions also.

Remember it must be powder and organic garlic not
just any powder on a shelf with additives.

Stay away from drugs for yourselves and for dogs and cats.

Be Well, and love your animals by being nonviolent with them
and that means using methods of training like Jerry's and the
First Nations along with no chemical garbage as so called
nutrition or help with medical problems like fleas.

Do Good, Be Good, Be One.

From:           Sharon
Date:           Sun, Apr 30 2006 11:03 pm
Email:          "Sharon" <askformya...@nospamhotmail.com>

I think it's best to think of garlic as it relates to
fleas like sprinkling sage around the edges of a kitchen
to keep ants out. The ants are still there - alive -
procreating, just like the fleas will be.

Further, fleas can cause issues with the humans in the
house. It's better to ask your vet about a product that
will kill all stages of the fleas' life cycle.

-Sharon

From:           Sharon
Date:           Wed, Aug 20 2003 6:59 pm
Email:          "Sharon" <requestaddyfi...@nospam.com>

Must be specific to heavy tic infested areas. I guess where
we live if people use their Advantic /frontline/Revolution
regularly (like birth control pills) they are covered. It
really works well for those fleas and tics. However, I can
see that in other areas of the country there would be different
recommendations based on need. I .... think.... we're..... lucky!

-Sharon

From:           Stephanie
Date:           Wed, Sep 4 2002 6:25 pm
Email:          "Stephanie" <steph...@gt.rr.com>

FYI...My black lab Sam was on Senitinel and then when
Revolution came out I switched.  Well after being on
prevention all of his life.

Last year he got heartworms!

Treatment was paid for by Pfizer(the maker of Revolution).

We will not know until next February if he is free of the
heartworms.  It was very scary.  We live in Texas and have
allot of mosquitoes, but I did not think it possible to get
heartworms if you are on prevention.

Good Luck!

               --------

From:           G Griffeth
Date:           Mon, Sep 24 2001 1:39 am
Email:          "G Griffeth" <gcgriffet...@yahoo.com>

Both are effective.

In general, Frontline is more gentle, Advantage is faster.

Both have been associated with reactions which have caused
seriious morbidity or mortality in dogs and cats.  These
reactions are very rare, however, being much less common
than toxic reactions to the oldfashioned dips, etc.

I use FrontlinePlus on my 4 cats and 1 dog monthly.
I get it free, but got Advantage and Revolution free
also.

Advantage caused local hair loss on one cat, so we switched.

Before that, we used grey-market Advantage.  I believe
the vet only rules to be a marketing ploy.  It is true,
however, that greymarket Advantage or Frontline are not
guaranteed by the maker for efficacy or *safety*.

If you have friends with pets, or have more than one,
large size doses are almost the same price as small ones,
and can be easily divided between animals.  We use one
giant Frontline per month on 5 beasties.

***Do Not Inject These Drugs Ever***
Use a hypodermic syringe to accurately measure the dose.
***Do Not Inject These Drugs Ever***

Sorry for the warning label.

You may also consider Revolution and Capstar.

I personally do not recommend either for routine use.

There are many informed people who disagree with that,
however.   Revolution works well on ear mites in cats.
Do not instill it into the ear, though...

Bottom line: find a cheap source of Frontline (preferably
an iconoclastic vet) and split the extra large doses with
many friends.

Gg

             ---------

HOWEDY jst,

jst wrote:

Allergies are a result of compromised auto-immune
system. Auto-immune systems are COMPROMISED by STRESS,
insufficient diet, and TOXINS. ALL commercial dog food
is GARBAGE.

sharon is a veterinary malpractice office manager and
mrs. veterinary malpracticioner and proven lyin dog
abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental case.

She SELLS toxins and prescription garbage diets for her
livin when she ain't SELLIN MUTILATIONS and MURDERIN dogs
and comfortin their owners while acceptin their payments.
Shell fleece you as fast as her own veterinary malpractice
customers..

HOWEDY Nell71,

That's too bad Nell71. The Freakin Simply Amazing
Puppy Wizard will PREY for him <{): ~ (  >

Could be. The DOG LOVERS you're askin here abHOWETS got
very long posted case histories of hurtin intimidatin an
murderin innocent defenseless dumb critters through
TRADITIONAL abuse mishandling and veterinary care and
malpractice <{): ~ (  >

DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE abHOWETS <{) : ~ (  >

                  ---------

"Crazy"? You want CRAZY? The only people who've replied
to you thus far are INSANE LYIN DOG ABUSING COWARDS with
very long verifiable posted case histories of THE SAME
PROBEM your dog got with NO CURE or solutions.

HOWEDY sharon aka sharon too veterinary malpractice office
manager and mrs. veterinary malpracticioner,

Sharon wrote:

Sez you sharon too? You've got a very long posted
case history of hurtin intimdiatin mutilatin and
murderin innocent defenseless dumb critters an lyin
abHOWET it <{): ~ ( >

Perhaps is shouldn't be applied to dogs either?

You think the SALES REP is gonna tell you the truth?
Perhaps you just fell HOWETA a cabbage truck an landed
on your head?

You'll find PLENTY of alternatives to TOXINS in Dr. Pitcairn's
books on Natural Pet Care. HOWEver, HOWER DOG LOVERS PREFER to
buy toxins from their TRUSTED veterinary malpracticioners
like we got RIGHT HERE whom The Freakin Simply Amazing Puppy
Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED as bein LIARS
DOG ABUSERS FRAUDS and MALPRACTICIONERS <{): ~ ( >

        Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory

Subject: Re: Canadavets.com

HOWEDY tom,

Tom wrote:

Do you BELIEVE frontline or ANY systemic POISON is SAFE?

WOULD YOU BET YOUR OWN LIFE ON IT?

Subject: Re: My dog has flees

HOWEDY Prophet,

Prophet wrote:

1st, You should go to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives
on Google and other fine pubicly archived news group
search engines and type in the correct SPELLIN and
see what The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ HE DOES to live
in a flea and other parasite free environment.

2nd, DO NOT believe the professional lying dog abusing
punk thug coward mental cases who SELL training lessons
and promote unethickal veterinary practices like toxic
substances and surgical sexual mutilation which may harm
your dogs and family.

3rd, if you DON'T FIND a definive authentic Amazing
Puppy Wizard's Post then ASK HIM HOWE to accomplish
whatever your needs are.

4th, DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE so if you see
someWON giving you contradictory information, KNOW
that they're a miserable lying dog abusing punk thug
coward and DISREGARD them. Better yet, tell them to
get the heel HOWETA The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Forums.

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's'
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual:

http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u

Please study my manual using a text to speech reader.
There's a free one at http://www.ultrahal.com

If you need any additional free help call me
ANY TIME at 407-425-5092.

Here's The Amazing Puppy Wizard's most recent post
on non toxic flea CON-TROLL methods and treatments:

Subject: Re: Excerpt: Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide
                  to Natural Health
                  for Dogs & Cats

HOWEDY Jane,

Thank you for the valuable information. Dr.Pitcairn's
works are EXXXCELLENT, to say the least. In addition
to Pitcairn's fleating (Ouch!) tips, I recommend insect
growth regulators (IGR's) and beneficial nematodes.

For daily grooming / inspection I always have a "Q-Tip"
soaked in alcohol to quickly swab them up off the dog
and dunk it back into a small bottle of alocohol to
dispatch them.

Of curse, cleanlieness is next to G-dlieness!

Thank you again,

Yours,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard <{); ~ ) >

Jane Smith wrote:

The following is an excerpt from the book Dr. Pitcairn's
Complete  Guide to  Natural Health for Dogs & Cats by
Richard H. Pitcairn, DVM, PhD, and Susan Hubble Pitcairn
Published by Rodale; September 2005;$18.95US/$25.95CAN;
1-57954-973-X Copyright © 2005 Richard H. Pitcairn, DVM,
PhD, and Susan Hubble Pitcairn Safe, Effective Flea Control

The best approach to controlling fleas is to start with
the least toxic and most natural choices, resorting to
stronger measures only if reasonable control is not achieved.

As a prerequisite to any flea- control program, I recommend
building up your animal's health and resistance as much as
possible through a healthy diet and lifestyle.

Along with that, it's important to practice thorough sanitation
and cleaning. Understanding the life cycle of the flea makes it
clear why cleaning is so important. Adult fleas live about three
to four months.

During that time they are steadily laying tiny white eggs on
your pet that look like dandruff or salt crystals. Flea eggs
hatch out into larvae that live in the cracks and crevices of
rugs, upholstery, blankets, floors, sand, earth, and the like.

Because these tiny larvae cannot jump or travel very far (less
than an inch), they feed on the black specks of dried blood
("flea dirt") that fall off along with the eggs during grooming
and scratching.

After one to two weeks, the larvae go through a cocoon stage
(pupa). A week or two later, they hatch out as small fleas
that hop onto the nearest warm body passing by (usually your
pet -- sometimes you!), bite it for a meal of blood, and then
start the whole process all over again. This cycle takes anywhere
from 2 to 20 weeks, depending on the temperature of the house or
environment.

During summer -- flea season -- the entire cycle is usually
just 2 weeks long. That's why fleas increase so rapidly at
that time. The bad news is that, no matter how many adult
fleas you manage to kill, numerous future fleas are developing
in the environment simultaneously.

The good news is that these eggs, larvae, pupa, and the flea
dirt they feed upon can be sucked up by a vacuum cleaner or
washed away in the laundry. And because the developing fleas
are so immobile, they are most concentrated wherever your pet
sleeps, so you know where to focus your efforts.

Your important ally in the battle against fleas is cleanliness,
both for your pet and your home, particularly in your pet's
sleeping areas.

Regular cleaning interrupts the life cycles of the fleas and
greatly cuts down on the number of adult fleas that end up on
your pet, especially if you act before flea season begins. So
start your program with these nontoxic steps.

Steam clean your carpets at the onset of flea season (or
whenever you begin your flea-control program). Though it
is somewhat expensive, steam cleaning is effective in killing
flea eggs.

Thoroughly vacuum and clean floors and furniture at least
once a week to pick up flea eggs, larvae, and pupae.
Concentrate on areas where your pet sleeps and use an
attachment to reach into crevices and corners and under
heavy furniture. If there is a heavy infestation, you may
want to put a flea collar (or part of a flea collar) in
the vacuum bag to kill any adult fleas that get sucked
up and might crawl away. Or else immediately dispose of
the bag or its contents because it can provide a warm,
moist, food-filled environment for developing eggs and
larvae.

Mop vinyl floors. Launder your pet's bedding in hot, soapy
water at least once a week. Dry on maximum heat. Heat will
kill all stages of flea life, including the eggs.

Remember that flea eggs are very slippery and easily fall
off bedding or blankets. So carefully roll bedclothes up
to keep all the flea eggs contained on the way to the
washing machine. Bathe the animal with a natural flea-control
shampoo. Use a nontoxic shampoo as recommended above, such
as one containing d-limonene (dogs only).

Use a flea comb to trap and kill fleas that are on your pet.
Most pet stores carry special fine-toothed combs that trap
fleas for easy disposal. Make a regular habit of flea-combing
your pet while you watch TV or talk on the phone. Depending on
the degree of infestation and the time of year, this might be
daily (at the onset of the flea season), weekly, or monthly.

Gently but thoroughly comb as many areas as your pet will allow,
especially around the head, neck, back, and hindquarters. As you
trap the little buggers, pull them off the comb and plunge them
into a container of hot, soapy water (or dip the comb and pull
the flea off underwater). Cover your lap with an old towel to
catch extra clumps of hair and flea dirt and to wipe the comb
off as you work.

When you're finished, flush the soapy water and fleas down the
toilet. If your pet goes outdoors, follow these steps as well.
Mow and water your lawn regularly. Short grass allows sunlight
to penetrate and warm the soil, which kills larvae. Watering
drowns the developing fleas.

Encourage ants. Perhaps I should say "do not discourage ants."
They love to eat flea eggs and larvae. This is another reason
not to use pesticides that kill all the insects in your yard.
"Sterilize" bare-earth sleeping spots.

If your pet likes to sleep or hang out in a certain bare or
sandy area, occasionally cover the spot with a heavy black
plastic sheet on a hot, sunny day. Rake up any dead leaves
and other debris first. The heat that builds up under the
plastic does an excellent job of killing fleas and larvae.
Of course, this is not appropriate to use where you want
to preserve live grass or plants.

Apply agricultural lime on grassy or moist areas. This helps
to dry out the fleas. Rake up any dead leaves and grassy debris
first.

Along with the above steps, you might try these methods to
repel fleas that may try to jump back on your pet, especially
those harder-to-kill ones hanging out in the backyard.

Use an herbal flea powder. You'll find them in pet stores
and natural food stores, or you can make your own. Combine
one part each of as many of these powdered herbs as you can
find: eucalyptus, rosemary, fennel, yellow dock, wormwood,
and rue. Put this mixture in a shaker-top jar, such as a jar
for parsley flakes.

Apply the flea powder sparingly to your pet's coat by brushing
backward with your hand or the comb and sprinkling it into the
base of the hairs, especially on the neck, back, and belly. To
combat severe infestations, use several times a week. Afterward,
put your animal friend outside for awhile so the disgruntled
tenants vacate in the yard and not in your house.

Some herbal flea powders also contain natural pyrethrins, which
are not strong flea-killers but do seem to greatly discourage
them. Use an herbal flea collar. These are impregnated with
insect-repellent herbal oils. Some are made to be "recharged"
with the oils and used again. Buy them at natural food stores.

Try a natural skin tonic. The animal herbalist Juliette de
Bairacli-Levy recommends this lemon skin tonic, which many
of my clients successfully use on their pets for a general
skin toner, parasite repellent, and treatment for mange.

Thinly slice a whole lemon, including the peel. Add it to 1
pint of near-boiling water and let it steep overnight. The
next day, sponge the solution onto the animal's skin and let
it dry. You can use this daily for severe skin problems involving
fleas. It is a source of natural flea-killing substances such
as d-limonene and other healing ingredients found in the whole
lemon.

Add ample nutritional or brewer's yeast and garlic to the diet.
Some studies show yeast supplementation significantly reduces
flea numbers, though others indicate no effect. My experience
with using yeast is that it has some favorable effect, particularly
if the animal's health is good. You can also rub it directly into
the animal's hair.

Many people also praise the value of garlic as a flea repellent,
though so far studies do not support this.

If these methods do not control the fleas sufficiently,
take the following steps. Get your carpets treated with
a special anti-flea mineral salt. There have been some
developments in safe flea control. My clients report
success with a service that applies or sells relatively
nontoxic mineral salts for treating carpets. (Fleabusters
is the company recommended.)

Effective for up to a year, the products safely kill fleas
and their developing forms over a few week's time.

Once or twice a year, sprinkle natural, unrefined diatomaceous
earth along walls, under furniture, and in cracks and crevices
that you cannot access with a vacuum. This product, which
resembles chalky rock, is really the fossilized remains of
one-celled algae. Though direct skin contact is harmless to
pets and people, it is bad news for many insects and their
larvae, including fleas.

The fine particles in the earth kill insects by attacking
the waxy coating that covers their external skeletons. The
insects then dry out and die.

I do not recommend using diatomaceous earth frequently or
directly on your animal -- mostly because of the irritating
dust that can be breathed in by both of you. It is also messy.
Be careful about breathing it in. Wear a dust mask when applying.
It is not toxic, but inhaling even the natural, unrefined form
of this dust can irritate the nasal passages.

Important: Do not use the type of diatomaceous earth that is
sold for swimming pool filters. It has been very finely ground,
and the tiny particles can be breathed into the lungs and cause
chronic inflammation.

Use a spray or powder containing pyrethrins or natural pyrethrum.
These are the least toxic of all the insecticides used on pets,
and they are found in both conventional and natural flea-control
products. For a more lasting effect, use a microencapsulated
product, which is perhaps labeled "slow release." Repeat the
applications as you simultaneously use the carpet treatment
system or diatomaceous earth. This will help kill both adult
fleas and developing fleas at the same time.

Reprinted from: Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health
for Dogs & Cats by Richard H. Pitcairn, DVM, PhD, and Susan Hubble
Pitcairn © 2005. Richard H. Pitcairn, DVM, PhD, and Susan Hubble
Pitcairn Permission granted by Rodale, Inc., Emmaus, PA 18098.
Available wherever books are sold or directly from the publisher
by calling (800) 848-4735 or visit their website at www.rodalestore.com

Authors Richard H. Pitcairn, DVM, PhD, opened the Animal
Natural Health Center, a clinic offering only holistic
animal care, in 1985. Recently retired from practice, he
teaches post-graduate courses in homeopathic medicine to
veterinarians.

Susan Hubble Pitcairn was a major contributor to the first
two editions of this book. As the third edition goes to press,
she is splitting her time between artistic pursuits and the
support of positive social change. For more information,
please visit www.drpitcairn.com

From: "Dr. Von" <drv...@mindspring.com>
Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?

Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.

The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.

With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u.  Free download, nothing
sold, no mailing list, no distribution of your name. Free
support if needed.

With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids.  Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.

Not difficult.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.

You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.

Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.

Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands.

Dr. Von

Here's HOWE The Freakin Simply Amazing  Puppy Wizard feeds his dogs:

            Breakfast At The Puppy Wizard's -
                  Chez du Chien -
                 Gourmet Recipies

HOWEDY People,

Unbeknownst to yourselves, this has been a difficult
couple weeks for Your Puppy Wizard. Not to complain,
but he's been necessarily temporarily abandoned by
his Mrs.Puppy Wizard who had to attend to affairs out
of town for nine days.

Left alone, helpless and hapless to cope with domestic
and personal needs, to fend for HISSELF and his pups by
his own devices, his Mrs. Puppy Wizard HOWEver, is
considerate and foresighted enough to prepare His table
before him, in advance, and even calls to remind him to
breath, when necessary.

Your Puppy Wizard requires little from the physical realm,
existing primarily on prahana and nirvana as his staple diet.
HOWEver, his puppies unfortunately cannot thrive in the
physical world without the grounding effects of the evils
of wholesome food.

Mrs. Puppy Wizard prepares daily, fresh, well balanced
HOWES cooked meals. When Mrs. Puppy Wizard travels
occasionally, she prepares for the days of lean in advance,
by freezing two weeks worth of puppy chow and posting the
culinary instructions on the Puppy Wizard's coffee can, the
only physical need The Puppy Wizard requires, beyond his
internet connection and of course, his Mrs. Puppy Wizard
and puppies. But those are givens, naturally.

Mrs. Puppy Wizard prepares 2 meals a day. The
following recipe is for about a 100 pound dog:

Breakfast is half pound raw ground turkey, green
Source, and 1gram vitamin C, 200mg Omega 3 fish
oil and a *Iams cookie *(cause she LIKES to).

Dinner is 2 cups cooked rice, a tablespoon of rolled
oats and an ounce of hamburg. When the rice and oats
cool, add half cup pinto or similar beans, ground fine
in the food processor with equal amounts raw collard or
similar greens or your dog's favorite vegetable or cabbage,
a tablespoon or two Olive or Cannola oil, half clove garlic,
mixed with 1/2 pound raw ground turkey, a good vitamin /
mineral supplement (Green Source for People), calcium and
magnesium, 1 gram vitamin C, 200mg Omega 3 fish oil.

Addition of table scraps is encouraged, bear in mind
salt can be dangerous. The Puppy Wizard's diet is
environmentally friendly and will not produce noxiHOWES
gasses provided the vegetable and beans are ground
finely and because the Green Source contains digestive
enzmyes. Chicken necks are an EXXXCELLENT source of
thyroid hormones.

Of curse, that's just a BASIC guide. You may add fish
(canned mackrel is cheap and EXXXCELLENT) or chitlins,
liver or anything not too high in salt or preservatives.

               BHOWEN APETITE!

From:           showdogbark
Date:           Tues, May 2 2006 1:13 pm
Email:          "showdogbark" <jotnarin...@yahoo.com>
Groups:                 rec.pets.dogs.health

Sharon,
I understand your frustrations from your practice with
your husband. I know a couple of vets myself and a few
assistants. The end of the business that you described
is hard and emotionally draining.

Yes vets do sacrifice and put in long hours and their
family is involved in the long hours and irregular hours
put in, there is a very hard side to the job.

It sounds like you get close to many of the animals that
come in especially the ones that come in long term.

I understand your feelings about the euthanasia part
of the job, although it is often overdone, I agree
that sometimes it is necessary, like with my angel
dog Ruby who had a broken neck from spondalosis and
she was put down in the most compassionate way while
I was holding her along with my husband, and the
interesting thing about it was when he came with
the needle she sweetly closed her eyes as though she
sensed she would have relief from the pain and it did
seem as though she embraced death by doing that. The
parting was very hard and at the same time very spiritual.

This vet is a country vet and does not perform esoteric
tests he works in the old fashioned way and tries simple
things first, he works from his own large farm and saves
costs and is sweet like a border collie himself.

The vets I am talking about are the city vets who are so
nice and reasonable the first few times and then out come
the expensive tests and drugs. For instance one time when
Ruby needed surgery for an accident he prescribed a 90
dollar anti-inflammatory for her, well she threw up from
it and my friend who worked for a vet when she was young
told me to use enteric coated generic aspirin and it worked
and she did not throw up and had pain relief.

My son gets the same thing with his dog, esoteric tests
and expensive drugs so he researches it and suggests and
consults with the vet and he no longer is getting gouged.

Perhaps the vets you know are reasonable and kind however
surely you must agree that the profession deserves allot
to be answered about when it comes to exploitation.

Consumer fraud and manipulation is at an all time high
and that includes the vets.

Of course there are many good ones who try and do their
best from their own medical knowledge that can be on the
pharmaceutical side of the training along with a genuine
belief in all the tests, of course to pay for the equipment
it helps to believe in the tests.

It is a complicated subject and I certainly sympathies
with you about the dark side of the business that is
hard for you and your husband.

I am sorry for the loss of your angel. May she rest in peace.

Show Dog Bark

P.S.  I never did pretend to be Jerry's dog.

I do like Jerry and Barbara very much I even went and
visited with them in Orlando. They were very polite and
Jerry picked me up at the airport and Barbara made me
dinner. They were the most gracious hosts and made me
very welcome.

He really is a third generation dog trainer and his
methods are new and refreshing.

I learned much more about them by speaking with him
about some of the ideas behind the methods.

They welcomed me into their home and yet I had only
met them through this site.

The man is sincere kind and very likable. His wife
is a saint and very loving and hard working.

When my husband came down to see me he was made very
welcome also and he also was impressed by Jerry's love
for dogs.

I think Jerry is not understood sometimes because his
methods are so different from the main stream. But his
intentions are good and effective results are there.

And he has had 45 years of experience and evidence
that he knows what he is doing. Like him or not, it
certainly is worth listening to his ideas as he comes
from a loving, knowledgeable place.

Do Good, BE Good, Be One.
Sow Dog Bark

HOWEDY matty,

Rocky wrote:

Naaah, The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just BAITING these lying
dog abusing punk thug coward mental cases again <{); ~ ) >

INDEEDY, matty. Robin studied and followed the INSTRUCTIONS
in her FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual and REPORTED her 100% NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS
RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Forums And SCHOOL Of HARD KNOCKS
And HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORIES, matty <{); ~ ) >

You're settin in it <{); ~ ) >

Dogs DIE from separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, matty, JUST
LIKE HOWE your own DEATHLY ILL dog Rocky is DYIN from
STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME, on accHOWENT of you're a lyin dog abusin punk
thug coward MENTAL CASE, matty, and you can't post here
abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE <{); ~ ) >

IN FACT, Robin followed up on her original 100% NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL REPORT with a other WON, matty.
PERHAPS you'd like to READ IT, matty?:

Thurs,Jun 16 2005 4:17 am
Subject: Re: Puppy Wizard - Report, Day Two

HOWEDY malinda,

Melinda Shore wrote:

"Success!" is what Robin wrote, malinda.

Robin wrote that she CURED her 12 year old dogs
separation anXXXIHOWESNESS NEARLY INSTANTLY
using her FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual <{);~ ) >

That so? Didn't you want to know HOWE she done it, malinda?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHH­AHAAAA!!!

HOWEDY Robin,

Robin wrote:

Of curse. You GOT your 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT
SUCCESS on your first use of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
Surrogate Toy Separation AnXXXIHOWESNESS / Bed Time Calming /
Fear Of Thunder / Submissive Urination / Car Sickness Technique
JUST LIKE HOWE all them other 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students whom HOWER DOG LOVERS call LIARS and their posts
FORGERIES <{); ~ ) >

INDEEDY.

As sharon too veterinary office manager and mrs veterinarian
sez "you might wanna take it to private email..."

Of curse not. Separation anXXXIHOWESNESS is CAUSED
BY MISHANDLING. HOWER method WILL NOT WORK for these
dog lovers, Robin, on accHOWENT of NUTHING will over-
come the RESULT of even occasional use of ANY pain
fear force intimidation bribery or avoidance method
<{); ~ ) >

The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
Training Method is a GESTALT. You CANNOT pick and
choose through what you LIKE and continue to rely
on other methods like JUST TELLIN THE DOG "NO!"
on accHOWENT of it INCREASES anXXXIHOWESNESS and
MISTRUST <{);~ ) >

The alpha theory is INVALID.

She's comfortable...

Perhaps you're gettin a little OCD?

Is she not allHOWED in there? You could train
her not to go in there in just a couple of
minutes. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's dogs NEVER
go into Mrs. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's sewin
room, door or no door, they don't think of it.

Of curse not. THAT'S HOWE COME you DID the Surrogate
Toy Technique <{); ~ ) >

Time is irrelevent immaterial and inconsequential.
Unless you're gone long enough to EXXXCEED her
needs for a break, food, water, etc, physical needs.

HOWEsbreaking is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks of age.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard has been training puppys
withHOWET EVER being crated for over forty years
and they WORK protecting their HOWESES by six months
of age.

Most EVERY THING the EXXXPERTS tell us abHOWET dogs
IS DEAD WRONG, as you've just PROVEN for yourself.

Although dogs are creatures of habit, it won't
matter when you're gone. Dogs habituate themselves
to routines EZ. THAT'S HOWE COME it's SO EZ to
HABITUATE or TRAIN them to ANY new routine. Kinda
JUST LIKE KIDS <{); ~ ) > And THAT'S where we're
goin NEXT, Robin, to PROVE it's the same same for
dogs as the same same for kids, usin your own
POSTED CASE HISTORY <{); ~ ) >

You might wanna do what The Amazing Puppy Wizard does.
HE asks HIS Mrs. to PINCH HIM. She won't. She's NOT
GONNA HURT HIM. So The Amazing Puppy Wizard comes here.

WELCOME!

O.K., but you may want to do The Technique four
times to make SHORE it's installed fully pryor
to EXXXTRAPOLATING it to the next "environment"
to insure 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS.

No, it won't. HOWEver, there MAY be a disturbance
like a lawn care guy or sumpthin like a door to
door person sellin sumpthin could disturb her.

She SHOULD BARK when you are NOT there, and BE
SILENT when you ARE there. The idea is, when
she's alone we WANT the dog to bark to scare
away someWON. When we're THERE, we want her to
TELL US so we can DO SUMPTHIN MOORE EFFECTIVE
than ALERTING or SCARING AWAY someWON who'd be
unkindly towards us <{); ~ ) >

NO PROBLEM. Just ask the EXXXPERTS what they think.
Ask sharon too mrs veterinarian HOWE MUCH does she
charge for ANTI-PSYCHOTIC PHARMACUTICALS and the
EXXXAM your dog would NEED if you came to her office.

Ask matty HOWE COME he AIN'T HAPPY you got your
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS CURING
your 12 year old rescue dog's severe separation
anXXXIHOWESNESS.

Ask them punks HOWE COME they'd DENY your dog
peace heelth and a sense of well being, just
so they can MAKE MONEY off of misadvising and
lying to people on accHOWENT of they're dog
abusing mental cases, wouldn't you agree?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA­A!!!

Hey? While you're at it, perhaps you'd like to
share this with them:

Subject: Public Apology - Mr Howe - The Amazing Puppy Wizard

Public Apology - Mr Howe

Date: 2004-06-03 18:17:59 PST

HOWEDY H1R3Z,

"H1R3Z" <h1r3z@(SPAMTRAP)phantomemail.­­com> wrote in message

news:c82b3m$l2r$1@titan.btinternet.com...

That's too bad, H. We need intelligent caring
dog lovers who understand the nature of dogs
and their behaviors.

Not necessary, H.. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
is grateful for your participation in HOWER forums
and looks forward to HOWER continued discussions.

LikeWIZE, H.. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
is a kindly soul, only seeking truth and justice
for WON and all.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard knew you would
be an englightened contributor, an honorable
representative of The Queen's RAF.

matty is a liar and dog abuser of the lowest calibre.

That's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard QUOTES HOWER dog lovers lying
and abusing their critters.

As The Amazing Puppy Wizard sees it,
there'll NEVER be any decent advice to
be FHOWEND from HOWER Gang Of
Lying Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards
and ACTIVE INCURABLE LONG TERM
MENTAL CASES.

Study my manual and apply the techniques
to some problem dogs and you'll see HOWE
efficiently you can rehabilitate ALL behavior
problems NEARLY INSTANTLY.

The only PROBLEM is, The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method does not mix with other methods cause
TRUST and GENTLENESS are the FHOWEndation.

INDEED.

HOWER dog lovers are notoriHOWES COWARDS.

HOWER MENTALLY ILL LYING DOG ABUSING PUNK THUG
COWARDS will spare nothing to defend their alleged
right to hurt and murder dogs.

LikeWIZE, H.. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
has learned MUCH from HOWER MENTAL
CASES, especially those with degrees in
behaviorISM, like professor SCRUFF SHAKE
and his ilk.

It's only abHOWET 70 pages. But it has ALL
the answers to all behavior problems.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard was lookin
forward to some in depth discussions
abHOWET trainin and behavior, particularly
as it applies to military and police working dogs.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard would NEVER
recommend killfilling INFORMATION.

The Amazin Puppy Wizard sez "dog trainin
AIN'T LUCK." "Luck is for SUCKERS," The
Puppy Wizard's DADDY.

Well, many of HOWER dog lovers have been
in therapy and taking anti psychotic medications
for twenty years. There's not a chance in heel
LUCK will be forthcoming in their "rehabilitation."

The Amazing Puppy Wizard is used to that.

They're only fighting to defend their lives
careers and reputations, H..

Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK.

NO PROBLEM. We're all entitled to mistakes,
they're an intergral part of learnin.

Perhaps you'll find a couple subjects to
work the Method on and maybe you'll
report your success or ask The Amazing
Puppy Wizard for additional free heelp in
the unlikely event you encHOWENTER
difficulty?

LikeWIZE, H..

G-D save The Queen!

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >

       Displacement Behavior / Extinguishment Bursts /
       JACKPOTS - A Relative Judgement Of A Circular
       Assignment Of Thought
       Date: 2003-04-11 05:45:35 PST

       HOWEDY People,

Since The Puppy Wizzzard began teaching
behaviorISM here on HIS FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Forum, you've learned
MOORE than you're able to handle in WON fell
swoop.

       "Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right
       action as separate, not the wise. If any man knows
       one, he enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is
       reached by wisdom is attained through right action
       as well. He who perceives that the two are one
       knows the truth.

       Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
       indeed all creatures act according to their natures.

       What is the use of compulsion then?

       The love and hate which are aroused by the
       objects of sense arise from Nature, do not
       yield to them. They only obstruct the path."
       Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
       permission from His FREE copy of The
       Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End
       Dog Training Method Manual.

       Force training JERRYIZES dogs and GETS THEM DEAD.

       Every correction is like our dog lovers seeing a new
       post from Jerry and every minute of crate anxiety is
       like reading another "thanks Jerry, your method /
       machine saved my dog's life" post from The
       Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog
       Training Method Manual Students...

       The Puppy Wizzzard has PRESSURED
       HOWER dog lovers EXXXACTLY as
       HOWER DOG LOVERS PRESSURE THEIR
       DOGS TO MAKE THEM HYPERACTIVE,
       AGGRESSIVE, SHY and have health
       disorders ike yeast ear infections
       idiopathic epilepsy and all OCD behaviors.

       Now you know HOWE COME professor scruff
       shake's little dog masturbates compulsively
       on his couch if he doesn't get his five miles
       of road work every day.

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Those who KNOW and talk to those who do not know,
appear pretty much like Jerry Howe talking dogs to
rpdb or ethics with a theologian or behavior with a
professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM, who sing the
same tune to The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.

We're not talkin dog training noMOORE, never have
been, anyHOWE. We're talking HUMAN NATURE,
the SCENT OF FEAR.

       "If You Talk With The Animals, They Will Talk
       With You And You Will Know Each Other.

       If You Do Not Talk To Them, You Will Not
       Know Them, And What You Do Not Know
       You Will Fear.

       What One Fears, One Destroys," Chief Dan
       George, adapted with permission from his FREE
       copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE WWW Wits'
       End Dog Training Method Manual.

       "It is by muteness that a dog becomes so utterly
       beyond value."

       Like a confessor Priest? Don't bet your dog won't
       tell on you...

       "With him, words play no torturing tricks.........., "
       John Galsworthy, adapted with permission from
       his FREE copy of The Puppy Wizzzard's FREE
       WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manaual.

       Their behaviors reflect our words, thoughts,
       actions, and training quirks. Jerry HOWE,
       The Puppy Wizard <{TPW; ~ }   >

       The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME is the perfect
       synergy of love, pride, desire, self will, greed, ego,
       fear, hate, arrogance, disbelief, jealousy, shame,
       embarrassment, guilt, anger, aversion, adversion,
       attraction, revulsion, repulsion, change,
       permanence, enlightenment, insult, attrition,
       and conditioning.

       I.e., JERRYIZED.

       HOWER forum is going through it's extinguishment
       burst just like your dogs do, at this time. HOWER
       dog lovers have hit the wall and they're not goin out
       quietly.

  That too, is CAUSED BY MISHANDLING. ALL
  behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

       The Puppy Wizzzard KNOWS better than to
       FORCE INTIMIDATE or SCOLD a DOG. HOWE
       COME would HE do that to HOWER dog lovers?

      CAUSE THEY'RE INTENTIONAL or
      PATHOLOGICAL LIARS, HYPOCRITES,
      and SADISTS.

       Let's call it tit for tat, a debt repaid, quid pro
       quo, The Puppy Wizzzard's JACKPOT. This
       place is a GOLDMINE for studying the complexities
       of the deranged human psyche and tinkerin with it...
       like HOWER DOG LOVERS EXPERIMIENT with TOOLS to HURT
       and INTIMIDATE HOWER DOGS TO DEATH.

       This life and health threatening event is brought to
       you Courtesy Of The Puppy Wizzzard. <(TPW;~) >

                     Welcome Students!

              The Sound Of One Hand Clapping

       When Mamiya went to the priest for personal
       guidance, he was asked to explain the sound
       of one hand clapping.

        Mamiya concentrated on what the sound might be.

       "You are not working hard enough. You are too
       attached to food, wealth, and to that sound. It
       would be better if you died. That would solve the
       problem."

       The next time Mamiya appeared before his teacher,
       he again was asked what he had to show regarding
       the sound of one hand.

       Mamiya immediately fell over as though dead.

       "You are dead, all right, but how about that sound?"

       Looking up, Mamiya replied: "I haven't solved that
       yet."

       "Dead men don't speak, get out!," Shakumuni
       Buddha, adapted with permission from His FREE
       copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
       End Dog Training Method Manual.

      ====================

       HOWEDY mztook,

       From: <mzt...@juno.com>
       To: <dogtrainerhotl...@yahoogroups­­.com>
       Sent: Sunday, December 29, 2002 1:10 PM
       Subject: A Relative Judgement Of ACircular
       Assignment Of Thought = Re: [HotList] ...

        > --- In dogtrainerhotl...@yahoogroups.­­com,
        > Kathy Kail <curlcoat@e...> wrote:

        > > Oh, this guy is Robert Redford? Kathy Kail
        > ah, Kathy... you made me laugh... thanks... i
        > needed a wee bit of joy this morning...

       Well, I'm glad we've had some entertainment.
       Life is too short, so have a good time!

        > poor ole' Monty... besides clickers, i think this
        > guy is the most discussed (make that HOTLY
        > discussed) topic on dog training lists...

       Well, the clicker thing can be EZily explained. I'm
       not a clicker fan, BTW.

  > my response to Mr HOWE's theories of approaching
  > training from a science slant is: Watch it buddy...

       INDEED?

        > i once had 7 theories of dog training... i now have
        > 7 dogs and no theories...

       So, what is your secret for success? Is it patented?

        > ok, not exactly true... i only have one dog now...
        > but... i still haven't found one thing that works
        > for all the dogs all the time...

       Oh. IOW, you're still EXPERIMENTING. Yeah,
       I know HOWE that is, been there, done that, and
       now I teach that... EZ, huh?

       Only took me 40 years. You busy?

   > you can train some dogs some of the time with that
   > method... and... you can train some dogs all of the
   > time with that method... but... you can't train all
   > dogs all of the time with that method...

       Till you met Your Puppy Wizard...

        > last time i checked, there were no cookie cutter
        > dogs... there were no cookie cutter trainers... if
        > there were, there would be no need for lists such
        > as this...

       CONGRATULATIONS!!! You've hit the JACKPOT.

        > no need for clickers...

You CAN use a clicker, just not HOWE it's TAUGHT.

        > no need for bait...

       Right, bait is only a prop for poison proofing.

        > no need for ecollars...

       For WAAAAT? You want to train your dog to
       naturally  want to do everything you ask, BURNIN
       HIM ain't gonna make him WANT to cooperate...
       so you got to FORCE the dog, which MIGHT BE
       O.K... if it worked. IT DON'T.

       You force train a dog and when IT refuses to work,
       you GOT TO HURT IT EVERY TIME or you've
       BROKEN THE METHOD.

 So, no, no moore shock collars, no moore pronged
 spiked pinch choke collars, no moore GL fastened
 so tight you can't get a couple fingers into it.

        > shucks, we'd all be bored to tears...

       Just think of all the FREE TIME you're gonna have
       when it doesn't take you MONTHS to train a dog
       as Your Puppy Wizard's students report 'in
       milliseconds?."

        > isn't that part of the challenge??...

       Dog trainin ain't no challenge to Your Puppy
       Wizard. Your Puppy Wizard specializes in
       training problem dogs all over the whole wide
       world from sittin right here stark ravin nekkid.

        > working with what works for the  particular dog
        > and that particular handler??...

       CONGRATULATIONS!!!

     YOU'VE HIT THE JACKPOT!!!

        > sign me up for a BIG bag of tricks...

       Tricks, mztook? Tricks are for kids! Check it out!
       This is FOR REAL. I'll train ANY dog anywhere in
       the world in RECORD BREAKING TIME from sittin
       right here, stark ravin nekkid.

       I'll bet my paper slippers on that, professional dog
       trainers.

        > i sure could use more...

       You got it.

        > ruthy

       Study your FREE copy of my FREE Wits' End Dog
       Training Method manual and do all the exercises
       EXACTLY as instructed and ASK ME if you need
       help. I'm available 24/8, but please, study the
       manual first so we can have some common
       understanding with which to WORK.

      For FREE.

       BOTH THESE GUYS GOT DEAD DOGS
       CAUSE THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE THEIR
       Puppy Wizzzard TILL IT WAS TOO LATE.

       "misty" <Momi...@webtv.net>
        wrote in message
news:16990-3CAB1F8C-1@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

          > I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive.
          > I do know she's not here with us. I really can't
          > blame anyone here for her loss. I'm the one
          > who ignored your advice.

          > I did it because of how you write/wrote.
          > I was unwilling to accept the idea
          > that my using a shock collar could have
          > any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay
          > home.

         > Up until I started using it my main concern
         > had been keeping my dogs in their own yard.

         > Once I started using the e-fence...well,
         > then my concern became how to keep
         > them from running off for days on end.

         > I lost valuable training time becoming
         > embroiled in the anti-shock debate and
      &n