Concerned w/ diagnosis
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Jason - 27 Jun 2006 04:22 GMT I've posted before regarding my 9-year old chihuahua/fiest mix. Please understand, this is my baby, and she's in so much pain right now that I could just cry!
About 3 weeks ago, she was vomiting and had diarrea, and the vet prescribed Baytril. We also changed her diet to a lamb-rice dog food. That seemed to help, but last week she had a relapse, but worse. The diarrea wasn't as bad (mainly just soft BMs), and the vomiting wasn't as often (maybe once a day, as compared to several times a day), but she became very lethargic, developed a fever, and was both shivering and panting at the same time.
So, I took her to the vet today. She had a fever of around 103 and was tender in the abdomen area, and I chose to have complete bloodwork done (well, as complete as they can do in-house). We also had X-rays done, but the doctor said that everything looked perfectly normal in the X-ray.
Based on the results of the bloodwork, the doctor gave me a diagnosis that I find a little hard to swallow. He said that he thinks that she is in the chronic stages of ehrlichiosis, but that he hasn't seen this particular disease in my area for more than 30 years.
In addition to its local rarity, I also find it hard to swallow because, according to the paperwork he gave me, the only way she could have gotten it would have been through a tick that was attached for several days. Well, my dog stays indoors 24/7, and bathes at least once a week with me, so I can't imagine any possibility of her having a tick without me seeing it.
He prescribed doxycycline, and gave me iron drops and tramidal (for pain). I'm worried, though, because if he has misdiagnosed the problem and we're treating her for the wrong thing, we risk letting something get much worse while we wait to see if doxycycline works.
Here were the results of the bloodwork, which is what he based his diagnosis on. I hope you understand the abbreviations, because this is all he gave me:
CHEMISTRY
ALB: 2.0 (low) ALKP: 426 (high) ALT: 10 AMYL: 784 BUN: 13 CA: 9.5 CHOL: 233 CREA: 0.6 GLOB: 7.2 (high) GLU: 77 PHOS: 5.1 TBIL: 0.3 TPL 9.2 (high; I think this just adds the ALB and GLOB)
HEMATOLOGY
WBC: 23.12 (high) LYM: 1.81 MONO: 2.10 (high) NEU: 18.84 (high) EOS: 0.18 BASO: 0.19 (high) HCT: 29.1 (low) RBC: 4.38 (low) HGB: 9.0 (low) RETIC: 18.7 MCV: 66.5 RDW: 16.1% MCHC: 31.1 MCH: 20.65 PLT: 190 MPV: 10.67 PCT: 0.2% PDW: 21.7%
Now you know everything that both I and the vet know about my dog. If you have any idea whether this is a correct diagnosis, or if you see any reason why the problem would not be ehrlichiosis, please do post and let me know.
TIA,
Jason
22brix - 27 Jun 2006 05:38 GMT Hi Jason,
I'd suggest having the vet do a specific test for erhlichiosis. You might find some good information here: http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0045.htm http://www.petplace.com/dogs/ehrlichiosis-in-dogs/page1.aspx I typed in "erhlichiosis in dogs" and there were many other sources also. By the way, people can get erhlichiosis, too. I can make you pretty sick.
Do you live in a rural area? I've had ticks come in the house on my indoor dogs and found them crawling around later on. Yuck!
Good luck, Bonnie
> I've posted before regarding my 9-year old chihuahua/fiest mix. Please > understand, this is my baby, and she's in so much pain right now that I [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Jason 22brix - 27 Jun 2006 05:53 GMT > I can make you pretty sick IT can make you sick! Sorry for the typo!
22brix - 27 Jun 2006 05:43 GMT Hi Jason, Another link for you.
http://chien-noir.com/ehrlichiosis.html#How
Bonnie
> I've posted before regarding my 9-year old chihuahua/fiest mix. Please > understand, this is my baby, and she's in so much pain right now that I [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Jason sighthounds & siberians - 27 Jun 2006 15:23 GMT >I've posted before regarding my 9-year old chihuahua/fiest mix. Please >understand, this is my baby, and she's in so much pain right now that I [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] >any reason why the problem would not be ehrlichiosis, please do post >and let me know. The only way to diagnose ehrlichiosis is by doing a titer test. The best lab for that is Protatek in Arizona.
Mustang Sally
Deborah, DVM - 27 Jun 2006 19:01 GMT > Now you know everything that both I and the vet know about my dog. If > you have any idea whether this is a correct diagnosis, or if you see > any reason why the problem would not be ehrlichiosis, please do post > and let me know. Certainly you might be dealing with ehrlichia, but I'm not sure how your vet came to that diagnosis exclusively. But I also haven't seen your dog, so I'm not working with complete information! Anyway, seems to me your bloodwork shows anemia, which appears to be regenerative (meaning there are immature red cells in circulation, so the body is producing more to make up for loss/destruction -- I base this on there being a high percentage of reticulocytes, but without knowing normal values for your other red blood cell indices, it's hard to say for sure). You also had a high white cell count, which can indicate infection or inflammation. Your chemistries looked fairly normal.
Anemia can be caused by a lot of things. One is blood loss -- what you'd be looking for here is a history of trauma (i.e. hit by car), or a bleeding mass (usually spleen or liver). Also intestinal parasites or external parasites that suck blood (i.e. hookworms or fleas). Second cause is destruction (I think the most common cause). This is why ehrlichia causes anemia -- as well as other tick borne diseases like rocky mt spotted fever. They infect the red cells and cause destruction. Lots of toxins can cause red cell destruction, and you can also have primary immune-mediated hemolytic anemia (IMHA), where the body just starts destroying it's own red cells. The final category is lack of production, often caused by chronic renal disease or cancer -- I don't think you have this because your bloodwork showed reticulocytes, which usually indicate that the bone marrow is producing new red cells.
I think you need to have some more tests done before you can know exactly what's going on. First off, if your vet hasn't done a fecal, get one done asap! Or just go ahead and deworm -- you might be dealing with something as simple as hookworms -- which is a breeze to treat. Other tests include more bloodwork -- you can get a rickettsial profile done which tests for ehrlichia, lyme, RMSF. I'd also consider an autoimmune profile to look for IMHA
Good luck,
Deborah, DVM
Jason - 27 Jun 2006 19:24 GMT Thanks for the replies, all. Bonnie, I read the sites you gave, and I do have to admit the information they gave does make me believe the doctor's diagnosis. The chien-noir site gave an example scenario that was identical to mine.
Sally, the vet suggested a titer test, but was concerned that it would take too long to get the results, which is why we began treatment immediately. He wasn't exactly organized yesterday (which scares me to no end), but as far as I know he did send off for a test.
Deborah, I'm replying to some of your comments in-text:
> Anemia can be caused by a lot of things. One is blood loss -- what you'd be > looking for here is a history of trauma (i.e. hit by car), or a bleeding > mass (usually spleen or liver). She definitely hasn't had any problems like that. The only blood loss she has had in at least a year is when the vet took a blood sample, and when he trimmed her nails and went a little too close.
I'm not sure how the vet would look for a bleeding spleen or liver, but he did take an X-ray and everything looked normal. I'm guessing that he would have seen a bleeding organ via X-ray?
> Also intestinal parasites or external > parasites that suck blood (i.e. hookworms or fleas). He did do a fecal test; luckily, I was able to bring in a solid sample from the night before. I was more concerned with a few black spots, and wanted to be sure that it wasn't blood (it wasn't, they were caused by the Pepto I had given her).
He didn't find any abnormalities in the stool.
> Second cause is > destruction (I think the most common cause). This is why ehrlichia causes > anemia -- as well as other tick borne diseases like rocky mt spotted fever. <snip>
> I think you need to have some more tests done before you can know exactly > what's going on. First off, if your vet hasn't done a fecal, get one done [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ehrlichia, lyme, RMSF. I'd also consider an autoimmune profile to look for > IMHA I feel confident that we're not dealing with worms (unfortunately), but I do worry about autoimmunie diseases. I was surprised that the vet didn't suggest anyt tests for that, and when I suggested it, he virtually blew me off and started going over the reasons why he suspected ehrlichiosis again.
At least the tramadol and iron helped a little, because she slept better last night and was a little more active this morning. I know that I won't see any results from the doxycycline for at least 72 hours, though... I can't stand the wait.
-J
buglady - 27 Jun 2006 22:08 GMT He said that he thinks that she
> is in the chronic stages of ehrlichiosis, but that he hasn't seen this > particular disease in my area for more than 30 years. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have gotten it would have been through a tick that was attached for > several days. ..........Nope, that's old information. It's certainly the most common. Snails can also play a part - all it requires is getting into some outside water if the appropriate critter is there.
The stuff below the link is from the website. Gil's dog died of Ehrlichia http://www.minden.com/nowhereelse/canine_tick_disease.htm *Ehrlichiosis is more than E. canis. Way too few vets seem to know much about tick-borne disease, fewer seem to realize that a dog that tests free of E. canis on the popular Snap test for heartworm, E. canis and Lyme, may still have another strain of it or another form of TBD altogether. (Some are resistant to even considering testing for tick disease and if you run up on one of these, don't let the door hit you on the way out! Go find a vet who will.)
If it's not E. canis, it could be equi, platys (a form that attacks the red blood cells), ewingii or risticii, though there are others, some unnamed. And, worse luck, cross infections with more than one type of TBD are common.
My dog died of E. risticii, the only form of this awful disease that is 'not' carried by ticks. The vector has only recently been found to be the larvae of the flukes that live on water snails. Think of it, imagine how tiny they are. It is believed that they may be ingested by dogs as they drink from river water, water in fields flooded or irrigated by rivers, or that these extremely small organisms may conceivably pass through the dog's skin with their deadly cargo. There is a possibility that E. risticii, now known as Neorickettsia risticii, is also harbored in horse manure, and it has been proven that horses which ingest caddis flies infected with this rickettsial organism can come down with the disease. The likelihood is that dogs may be infected in this way as well.*
........good luck with your pup buglady take out the dog before replying
Spot - 27 Jun 2006 22:44 GMT You need to get signed up for the tick list. They are wonderful there and many people have dogs that have been or are being treated for the same thing.
http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/ticklinks.htm
The top link of the page will take you to where you can subscribe also there are lots of informational links about TBD's.
Celeste
> I've posted before regarding my 9-year old chihuahua/fiest mix. Please > understand, this is my baby, and she's in so much pain right now that I [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Jason Jason - 28 Jun 2006 09:49 GMT OK, I'm willing to accept ehrlichiosis as a diagnosis, at least until the titer test comes back. If it really is ehrlichiosis, I'm writing a letter of gratitude for my vet and sending it to the editor of the local nespaper.
Anyway, I've been giving her the doxycycline and iron, but I'm still concerned. Today was her second dose of doxycycline, and so far she's had 3 doses of iron (2 a day, starting last night).
Like I said before, she slept better last night, and was a little more active this morning. I gave her the doxycycline first thing, but didn't give the tramadol because she didn't seem to be in any pain. After an hour or two, though, she found a soft spot on the couch and stayed there. All day. The only time she moved was when I carried her to the bathroom, and once when she wanted some water.
I did give her the iron twice today, but I read online that it shouldn't be given within 2 hours of doxycycline (my vet didn't tell me that, so God bless the internet). So I didn't give her the iron first thing, I waited a little while.
She ate very little. It took some coaxing, but she finally eat a few pieces of her regular hard food. My girlfriend bought some Purina Beneful soft food (it seemed to have similar ingredients to the hard food and we thought the transition would be easiest for her), and while she tasted it, she didn't really eat much of it. She only drank a little water.
She only urinated once: a heavy flow that was darker yellow than usual. She also defecated several times; soft but not mucusy, and very dark (again, from the iron).
She also has a real difficulty walking, especially going up or down stairs. She's been like this for a few weeks, and the vet is aware of it, but today walking seemed especially hard for her.
It's also worth knowing that she had a bit of a gas problem at around midnight. Her stomach felt tight and I was very concerned about bloat (even though she had an X-ray just 36 hours earlier), but after she went to the bathroom, the swelling went down. I massaged her abdomen for awhile afterwards, and she groaned the whole time (like she has been doing), but she didn't act like it hurt as badly. I know this is probably irrelevant, but I'm not a vet so I don't want to leave anything out.
While massaging her abdoment, though, I accidentally found out that her hip / upper leg is very sore. I rubbed it with the same pressure that I was giving her belly, and she yelped in actual pain.
On a positive side, she hasn't been shivering (I credit the iron for that), and I think her fever has gone down. I don't have a thermometer to be sure, but her stomach doesn't feel as hot to the touch; still hot, but not burning hot.
Is lethargy a side effect of the doxycycline? I figured that the iron would give her more energy, so I was surprised that she was more weak today than usual.
Knowing this, and the information from the original bloodwork, can someone please tell me what kind of chances my baby has? I'm just not psychologically prepared for her to die, it's too sudden and she's too young!
Forgive my long post. Please understand that I'm very nervous, very scared, and have slept very little (if at all).
Thanks again for the advice you've aleady given, and thanks in advance for your patience in advising me further.
- J
> > I've posted before regarding my 9-year old chihuahua/fiest mix. Please > > understand, this is my baby, and she's in so much pain right now that I [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > > > Jason
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