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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / July 2006Does anyone know what to make of this?
Here's a link to a couple of pictures of Matilda's belly. http://tinyurl.com/fpuh2 The first photo was taken a couple of months ago and the second last night. We'll be off to the vet again in the morning in a third attempt for a diagnosis. History: About a year ago, not long after she started loosing hair on her abdomen (no spots at that point in time) I took her to the partner of my regular vet seeing as my regular vet was away. He said that it was most likely a hormonal thing and just to leave it alone. A few months later I took her to see a new vet for a second opinion. His opinion was the same. In May, I took her to see her regular vet for a 3rd diagnosis. This time I was told that seeing as there was "peach fuzz" that it wasn't hormonal, that it was probably as a result of an allergy or excessive grooming. Matilda was given a shot and I was told that if things improved that it was most likely an allergy. Within a week things seemed to settle down. The spots disappeared and hair appeared to start to grow. Now about 8 weeks later - well you can see for yourself. Her belly is worse than it ever was. Poor Matilda!! So it's back to the vet tomorrow. Does anyone have any ideas? Judy > http://tinyurl.com/fpuh2 > History: About a year ago, not long after she started loosing hair on her > abdomen . He said that it was most > likely a hormonal thing and just to leave it alone. > A few months later I took her to see a new vet for a second opinion. His > opinion was the same. .........Is this cat not spayed? If so, I can't see how it could be hormonal. > In May, I took her to see her regular vet for a 3rd diagnosis. This time I > was told that seeing as there was "peach fuzz" that it wasn't hormonal, that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Now about 8 weeks later - well you can see for yourself. Her belly is worse > than it ever was. .........Assuming the shot was a steroid, well, that's what they do - shut off the response to the irritant, then it gets worse when it's stopped. It doesn't really solve anything. .........Sometimes when cats lick the hair off their bellies, they have hot livers and the cat is trying to soothe the area by licking it. I'd try giving her some milk thistle extract for a few weeks and see if that does any good. Does this cat have normal stools or any problems with digestion? As for allergies, the number one offender for cats is fish. Try eliminating that from the diet. buglady take out the dog before replying >> http://tinyurl.com/fpuh2 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > .........Is this cat not spayed? If so, I can't see how it could be > hormonal. Matilda has been spayed. >> In May, I took her to see her regular vet for a 3rd diagnosis. This time >> I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > worse >> than it ever was. > .........Assuming the shot was a steroid, well, that's what they do - shut > off the response to the irritant, then it gets worse when it's stopped. > It > doesn't really solve anything. It was a steroid given in attempt to determine whether or not she was excessively grooming due to perhaps a stressor or, because of an irritant resulting from an allergy. I was told that the shot would be an indicator, not a solution to the problem. > .........Sometimes when cats lick the hair off their bellies, they have > hot > livers and the cat is trying to soothe the area by licking it. I'd try > giving her some milk thistle extract for a few weeks and see if that does > any good. Does this cat have normal stools or any problems with > digestion? Her stools are normal and I haven't noticed any problems when it comes to digestion. > As for allergies, the number one offender for cats is fish. Try > eliminating > that from the diet. Until recently she's been fed Wellness Lite dry and Nutro canned Turkey & Lamb, neither of which contain fish. Last week I switched her to Natural Balance (allergy) dry and Eagle Pack canned so we'll see what happens. Anyway, we'll see what the vet says later this morning. Thanks for your input. Judy steroid given in attempt to determine whether or not she was > excessively grooming due to perhaps a stressor or, because of an irritant > resulting from an allergy. I was told that the shot would be an indicator, > not a solution to the problem. .......I guess I don't get that part. I think steroids can stop most itchy things in their tracks because they shut off the body's response to an irritant, but still this tells you nothing about the cause. I think in most cases cats lick their bellies because they're trying to soothe some irritating condition, not as a behavioral issue in response to stress. > > .........Sometimes when cats lick the hair off their bellies, they have > > hot livers ........After I got out my book I realized it's liver stagnation, not necessarily a hot liver. See my reply to Toni's post. >Anyway, we'll see what the vet says later this morning. ........What did the vet say? My guess is you came home with hypoallergenic food and steroids. <g> buglady take out the dog before replying > steroid given in attempt to determine whether or not she was >> excessively grooming due to perhaps a stressor or, because of an irritant [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > hypoallergenic > food and steroids. <g> Hi, She's going with the food allergy so I came home with hypoallergenic food. That's it for now. It can take 6-8 weeks for the food to kick in. I'm to keep my eye on her belly and if it becomes more inflamed she'll prescribe something. I was also given an antibacterial soap to wash her belly with. The texture of the skin has changed and small indentations can make homes for bacteria. Judy This looks just like my moms cat. She gets this way from stress & over grooming. The vet calls it a granuloma or something. She's had it on and off for over 12 years. When it gets really bad she gets a shot of depomedrol and prednisone pills. At it's very worst about 8 years ago she was even on valium for a time being. Celeste > Here's a link to a couple of pictures of Matilda's belly. > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Judy > This looks just like my moms cat. She gets this way from stress & over > grooming. The vet calls it a granuloma or something. She's had it on and > off for over 12 years. When it gets really bad she gets a shot of > depomedrol and prednisone pills. At it's very worst about 8 years ago she > was even on valium for a time being. It doesn't look anything like a lick granuloma to me.  SignatureToni http://www.cearbhaill.com/rules.htm > It doesn't look anything like a lick granuloma to me. .......welcome to the world of cats Toni! <g> They don't call them lick granulomas in cats. Since a dog's tongue is smooth, they really can't remove much of the hair when they're licking and the slightly swollen pink look to the skin from a dog licking usually takes some days. Since cat tongues are raspy, you can wake up to a cat with a bald patch somewhere if they're really conscientious about licking all night long. Sort of depends on the cat what happens after that. I had one lick a spot the size of a silver dollar by the time I got home from work and it was also weeping. .....To the OP, if you have any interest in Chinese Medicine you might check out 4 Paws, 5 Directions by Cheryl Schwartz, DVM. She describes the cat who licks all the hair off the stomach for no apparent reason as having a stagnant liver and says this occurs before irritable bowel syndrome sets in. She lists some acupressure points you can use, plus some supplements that are helpful. At the very least I'd try some B complex vitamins and probiotics. This is not a Schwartz recommendation, but the first thing I think I'd do is give a hairball medicine to make sure all that hair the cat ate isn't sitting in a lump somewhere in the gut, which only exacerbates the situation. buglady take out the dog before replying "buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> wrote in message news:k95tg.7594 > .......welcome to the world of cats Toni! <g> They don't call them lick > granulomas in cats. Since a dog's tongue is smooth, they really can't [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > on the cat what happens after that. I had one lick a spot the size of a > silver dollar by the time I got home from work and it was also weeping. Well, at least I learned something... Sorry original poster! Truly. Off to remove foot from mouth. SignatureToni http://www.cearbhaill.com/rules.htm > Well, at least I learned something... > > Off to remove foot from mouth. ..........No need to chew on your shoe leather! <g> Cats will continually remind you that they're not small dogs! Do you ever get cats in the grooming shop? Having had a long haired cat (once - never again!) when I lived out in the country, I know it can be a challenge to keep up with the coat when they're roaming around collecting burrs. The scissors became the most popular grooming tool. buglady take out the dog before replying "buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> wrote in message news:1brtg.3984 > ..........No need to chew on your shoe leather! <g> Cats will continually > remind you that they're not small dogs! Do you ever get cats in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the > most popular grooming tool. Oh yes- we do lots and lots of cats. We've has as many as 10 on the same day. They are a whole 'nother ball game than dogs, grooming wise. It is not at all for the faint of heart. We have a very good cat lady who is mentoring me along in cat grooming. I do OK unless they are one of the real fighting cats, then they just frankly scare the bejesus out of me. Fortunately we have some very experienced "holders" available to us which truly makes all the difference. As far as my own, Loomis does have a bit of coat, but has never been outdoors so I have no burr situation happening. I have made it my mission in life to keep them all agreeable about it, so I brush each one every day as well as look in their mouth, poke their feet, etc. SignatureToni http://www.cearbhaill.com/kitties.htm I have made it my mission in > life to keep them all agreeable about it, so I brush each one every day as > well as look in their mouth, poke their feet, etc. ........Good for you! Some of mine come running when I'm brushing dogs outside as they don't want to miss their turn. > Toni > http://www.cearbhaill.com/kitties.htm .........What handsome kitties! Mayan Cat Temple indeed........would you send that dishwashing cat to my house please. Didn't know you'd already accumulated 3 - be careful....they're a bit like potato chips. buglady take out the dog before replying "buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> wrote in message news:avutg.4046> > .........What handsome kitties! Mayan Cat Temple indeed........would you > send that dishwashing cat to my house please. Didn't know you'd already > accumulated 3 - be careful....they're a bit like potato chips. I wish I could have more but three is it. I'm a crazy old lady already, and becoming the crazy old cat lady is not something I want to see happen. The two orange are litter mates and are incredibly bonded. They are so close that my pessimistic nature caused me to be very afraid of what would happen if we ever lost one. So knowing that adding a third while they were young would be easier than adding a third later on we went ahead and found Loomis. Ever had a pet so utterly perfect that you had to have another- and the new one was evil incarnate? That's Loomis. But he has mellowed considerably and I have grown to love him a great deal. Could we handle a fourth? If, and only *if* I was to run across a nice Oriental Shorthair or Siamese with blue eyes. I would like a pair of blue eyes looking back at me. But I am not really actively searching and doubt I would ever really pay for a well bred cat while the shelters are still full. And I only check the shelter page once a week or so... [/small voice] SignatureToni http://www.cearbhaill.com/kitties.htm > And I only check the shelter page once a week or so... [/small voice] .........Well at least you don't have to face them in person at the pet store! Our local pet store has 3 or 4 cats from the Humane Society at all times. ........You have to be careful adding cats. It's easier to add another dog to a household than a cat. One bad addition can throw the whole household into a tizzy. buglady take out the dog before replying > .........Well at least you don't have to face them in person at the pet > store! Our local pet store has 3 or 4 cats from the Humane Society at all > times. Oh, they're in there. I do not even allow my head to turn in that direction. If I even make eye contact with one it haunts me for days. > ........You have to be careful adding cats. It's easier to add another > dog > to a household than a cat. One bad addition can throw the whole household > into a tizzy. That's all that's stopping me. I don't want to upset the applecart as things are so nice as they are. Loomis- the one with either a bad sprain or a mystery infection? He is *markedly* better after only one day of Baytril, and markedly with an exclamation point! So either a very bad sprain has magically resolved overnight, or he had an infection of some sort. I don't like unresolved medical mysteries, so the possibility of an infection is nagging at me. What type of infection spontaneously occurs in a nine month old indoor cat? He was walking so gingerly, not jumping or climbing at all, no interest in anything but he still had an appetite. How does something just appear like that? And if it happened once it can happen again. Once again in my life, it's the not knowing that bothers me. He was tested for FeLV only once in the shelter, result negative. Is that a reliable test? The immunosupression issue of FeLV is what I am concerned about- this is the cat that truly almost died with his kitten URI. Do you think I need to have the FeLV test repeated? Would they have discovered if he was positive during his multiple hospital stays with the URI when he was five months old? Am I making up things to worry about? None of my 100% indoor cats have been FeLV vaccinated. SignatureToni http://www.cearbhaill.com/kitties.htm > Loomis- the one with either a bad sprain or a mystery infection? > He is *markedly* better after only one day of Baytril, and markedly with [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Am I making up things to worry about? > None of my 100% indoor cats have been FeLV vaccinated. Hi Toni, I had a very similar experience with one of my cats, Gollum. He's about three now but when he was about a year old he had several (maybe three or four) episodes that sound very similar to Loomis's experience. He is a very athletic cat--probably the most active cat I've ever had (and I've had more than a few!) but he wouldn't jump up onto anything, he'd be lethargic (at least for him), he'd still eat but not as enthusiastically as usual. I was sure it was a joint issue but it'd go away after a couple of days of antibiotics. Several months later it would come back, he'd be treated, get better and then the cycle would continue. One of my vets finally put him on Zeniquin (an antibiotic) and he hasn't had a similar episode in over two years. My vet was also concerned about Leukemia but he tested negative. If I were you, I'd have Loomis tested again. I went through an experience losing a cat to leukemia after he'd tested negative as a kitten. When a cat is exposed to something like leukemia, there's a window of time that the tests will be negative--it takes a bit of time for antibodies to become detectable. It's like HIV in humans--to be absolutely sure, a person should be tested a second time, several months later. As far as having a leukemic cat with other cats--if he does test positive I'd get your other cats vaccinated. I've had two separate cats with leukemia and none of my other cats contracted leukemia. With one of them I didn't know until just before he died that he was positive. With the other, it's been so long ago now I don't remember what all I did to protect the non-leukemic cat. I fed them separately but I don't remember any other specifics. He eventually had to be euthanized about three years later but his sister lived on to be 16 years old. Good luck with Loomis--I know what you mean by the not knowing!! Bonnie > I had a very similar experience with one of my cats, Gollum. He's about > three now but when he was about a year old he had several (maybe three or > four) episodes that sound very similar to Loomis's experience. He is a > very athletic cat--probably the most active cat I've ever had (and I've > had more than a few!) That's Loomis. It is not at all unusual to see black fur streaking overhead. > My vet was also concerned about Leukemia but he tested negative. If I > were you, I'd have Loomis tested again. I went through an experience [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > become detectable. It's like HIV in humans--to be absolutely sure, a > person should be tested a second time, several months later. I will be retesting, you bet. > As far as having a leukemic cat with other cats--if he does test positive > I'd get your other cats vaccinated. Yes. > Good luck with Loomis--I know what you mean by the not knowing!! Thanks for telling me about Gollum. It's always nice to know that my own mystery is not all that unusual. SignatureToni http://www.cearbhaill.com/kitties.htm > That's Loomis. It is not at all unusual to see black fur streaking > overhead. Gollum's black, too! > Thanks for telling me about Gollum. It's always nice to know that my own > mystery is not all that unusual. I seem to have a penchant for weird pet illnesses, or so my vet says! Bonnie >> Thanks for telling me about Gollum. It's always nice to know that my own >> mystery is not all that unusual. > > I seem to have a penchant for weird pet illnesses, or so my vet says! Similar issues with Busy Lizzie when she was young -- major URIs, one bad enough that they had to vacuum out her nasal passages under anaesthesia. She was a foundling who came to us in very poor shape, but about 8 months of good nutrition, taking care of the parasite load and a couple of long courses of antibiotics and she's been fine ever since. I would, however, consider retesting for FeLV and FIV, if those are issues in your part of the world. One of my vets swears that the worst cat diseases happen to the cats with the nicest owners, so I have taken the precaution of prophylacticly insulting him every time I bring a cat in. He thinks it's hilarious. <g> Kay > One of my vets swears that the worst cat diseases happen to the cats with > the nicest owners, so I have taken the precaution of prophylacticly > insulting him every time I bring a cat in. He thinks it's hilarious. <g> ......Heh! Actually what I think is that a lot of people end up with cats because they sort of moved in with no invitation, and may be only semi attached to these cats. They're willing to feed, maybe spay/neuter and get shots, but not much else. When they get seriously ill, they don't get the same vet attention as the family dog, and end up being euthanized because they're in bad shape, with no real diagnosis. > ......Heh! Actually what I think is that a lot of people end up with cats > because they sort of moved in with no invitation, and may be only semi > attached to these cats. They're willing to feed, maybe spay/neuter and get > shots, but not much else. When they get seriously ill, they don't get the > same vet attention as the family dog, and end up being euthanized because > they're in bad shape, with no real diagnosis. Exactly. Sigh. Kay > Loomis- the one with either a bad sprain or a mystery infection? > He is *markedly* better after only one day of Baytril, and markedly with an [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anything but he still had an appetite. > How does something just appear like that? ........Weird that Baytril would have any affect on a sprain, unless the antibiotic is somehow anti-inflammatory. Could be a small puncture wound from the other cats that you just can't see. I once rescued a kitten that had a fever so high I had to lay her on towel covered blue ice on my lap. She was totally listless for a couple of days. Finally the antibiotics kicked in and she got well. It wasn't until she was on the upswing that I saw a place behind her paw that looked like a puncture wound. It didn't abcess but probably was deep enough to go to the bone as it was a bony part of the leg. Since you groom every day you should find abcesses fairly easily, though cats usually get them from fighting off strangers, not from housemates. Nine times out of ten, if a cat of yours is sick with some sort of ailment (like a cold for us, or a light variation of the flu), it's going around the neighborhood. One time I woke up on Mother's day to almost all my cats sitting around being grumpy with green goo leaking out their eyes. In two days it was gone. A lot of times the vet will know when this stuff hits as they have a lot of clients with the same thing, so you might give them a call. I think some cats are more susceptible or they've never been exposed before. Some of this stuff is airborne, so indoor cats aren't totally protected. And since it's usually viral, there's not much to be done except eye cleaning, nose rinsing if it's stuffed up, etc. and keeping an eye out for complications. If a cat keeps eating, he's doing OK at the moment. > Once again in my life, it's the not knowing that bothers me. ........There's lots of weird stuff about cats that don't seem to have a reason! > He was tested for FeLV only once in the shelter, result negative. Is that a > reliable test? > The immunosupression issue of FeLV is what I am concerned about- this is the > cat that truly almost died with his kitten URI. .......He may be more susceptible to lung things then, if there was any permanent damage. Any cough or raspy breathing should be promptly investigated and antibiotics prescribed. You might ask the vet about possibility of damage from being so sick at one point. > Do you think I need to have the FeLV test repeated? ..........I would. Depends on how old he was when he was tested the first time. I don't know if his being sick at the time would skew the test at all. buglady take out the dog before replying "buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> wrote in message news:SfVtg.7637$ > Since you groom every day you should find abcesses fairly > easily, though cats usually get them from fighting off strangers, not from > housemates. Yeah, I really went over him head to toe when he started acting funky- there wasn't a mark on him. > .......He may be more susceptible to lung things then, if there was any > permanent damage. Any cough or raspy breathing should be promptly > investigated and antibiotics prescribed. You might ask the vet about > possibility of damage from being so sick at one point. I'm going to ask about this this week. But there were no lung symptoms at all in this most recent incident- just lethargy. >> Do you think I need to have the FeLV test repeated? > ..........I would. Depends on how old he was when he was tested the first > time. I don't know if his being sick at the time would skew the test at > all. I'm retesting them all this week. Loomis is completely recovered, whatever it was, but I'm finishing the course of antibiotics on principle. -Toni > He was tested for FeLV only once in the shelter, result negative. Is that > a reliable test? > The immunosupression issue of FeLV is what I am concerned about- this is > the cat that truly almost died with his kitten URI. > Do you think I need to have the FeLV test repeated? Repeated FeLV and FIV test today.... both were negative. So "mystery infection/sprain" will remain a mystery. He's totally recovered, whatever it was. SignatureToni http://www.cearbhaill.com/kitties.htm > Repeated FeLV and FIV test today.... both were negative. > So "mystery infection/sprain" will remain a mystery. > > He's totally recovered, whatever it was. Fantastic!! Nice to have that worry off your shoulders!! Go, Loomis! Bonnie > Repeated FeLV and FIV test today.... both were negative. > So "mystery infection/sprain" will remain a mystery. > > He's totally recovered, whatever it was. ...........Good! Now you can put that worry to rest. buglady take out the dog before replying >> It doesn't look anything like a lick granuloma to me. > > .......welcome to the world of cats Toni! <g> They don't call them lick > granulomas in cats. >Since a dog's tongue is smooth, they really can't > remove much of the hair when they're licking and the slightly swollen pink [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > the > situation. At this point in time I have no interest in Chinese Medicine and plan (at least for now) to stick with the change in diet and see what results from that. If that doesn't work, I'll find another path to follow. As far as the hairball medicine goes, seeing as the hair loss happened over a period of months and she's been bald for months, I doubt an accumulation of hair in the gut is of concern seeing as what's been going in through the mouth has been coming out the butt sans hair. Surely if there were a lump of hair inside her, there would have been some evidence of this before now. Just curious, if when it comes to cats it's not referred to as "lick gramuloma" what is it called? Judy the hair loss happened over > a period of months and she's been bald for months, ........OK, didn't know how long a period it was. > Just curious, if when it comes to cats it's not referred to as "lick > gramuloma" what is it called? ..Dogs actually make a sore in the skin when they lick, which gets bigger and bigger. It's a totally different animal. Licking is often a self-soothing behavior for dogs, since they're not natural groomers like cats. It's always seemed to me that cats get more irritated the more they groom an area. http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_lick_granuloma.html ........I did find something on what used to be called hormonal hairloss. Seems pretty rare.: http://www.petplace.com/cats/endocrine-alopecia-in-cats/page1.aspx# *In the past, feline symmetrical alopecia also has been called feline endocrine alopecia because it was thought to be due to a hormonal imbalance. However, the actual pathogenesis of this disease remains unknown.* ......Here's a pretty good description of skin problems in cats. Bald Belly is just Alopecia - hair loss. I'm still confused about the response to the steroid shot proving anything. Apparently it can make fungal infections worse, so it seems to me that about the only thing it showed is that it's not fungal: http://www.vet.utk.edu/continuing_ed/05decCE/sargent.pdf ......Online Merck Vet Maual on skin issues if you want to do further reading: http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/toc_70100.htm buglady take out the dog before replying > the hair loss happened over >> a period of months and she's been bald for months, [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > reading: > http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/toc_70100.htm Thanks for the reading!! I'm going through them now. Judy |
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