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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / August 2006Giardia Vaccination?
I recently discovered in my genetics class that there exists a vaccination against giardia. Since then I've been thinking about it for my dogs. I take them out hiking with me frequently, and they often drink from streams and what not while we're out. I've been trying to research things on the net a little bit, and this is what I've found out: 1. A fairly high percentage of dogs in Canada are infected with giardia. (~7-8%) 2. But many of them are asymptomatic. 3. The vaccine shows no significant ability to treat an already infected dog (at least I think that's what the journal article was saying...) Just wondering what people around here think of the idea. My two dogs are 2 years old, and 11 years old. Both Labs, both in pretty good health (the old guy does get occaisional cramps and loose stool though) Are there any risks associated with giving them the vaccine? Would you give the vaccine to your dogs under those circumstances? Dale > Are there any risks associated with giving them the vaccine? Would you give > the vaccine to your dogs under those circumstances? .......I think most vets consider the giardia vaccine as nonessential. To me, it's a vaccine in search of a disease. Have your dogs ever been diagnosed with Giardia? ......Giardia is a major problem in infants in developing countries due to fecal contamination of water. That doesn't mean your dogs need a vaccine, because it won't fix this problem. I didn't search enough to find out if they've got a vaccine for humans, but I didn't find any indication that there is one that works. .....As most things, it appears the host defense system is the most important factor in taking care of Giardia infection: http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/1/11 An interesting article about the detection of Giardia in dog/cat feces. Seems to indicate most times the organism does not cause symptoms and suggests that immunity comes with age: It seems that it crops up most often in breeding kennels, where they give it to each other, rather than in wild dogs. http://revmedvet.envt.fr/RevMedVet/2004/RMV155_417_421.pdf Schultz is one of the major researchers on vaccines. This article is from 2000 and he mentions then that the efficacy of the Giardia vaccine at that time is unknown: http://www.ivis.org/advances/Infect_Dis_Carmichael/schultz/IVIS.pdf AAHA recommendations for vaccines 2006. The Giardia vaccine is not recommended because all it does is reduce cyst shedding. http://www.aahanet.org/About_aaha/vaccine_guidelines06.pdf#search=%22CVM%20g iardia%20vaccine%20dog%22 If you want more to read on Giardia go to Google Scholar (hit more and even more at main Google site) and input Giardia vaccine. The Center for Veterinary Biologics regulates vaccines in animals in the U.S. They may have more basic information on the Giardia vaccine. Didn't take time to look as my dogs are clamoring to get out of here!: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/vs/cvb/ .......There is no such thing as an innocuous vaccine. Your dog may react to it where others don't. The Google teaser had Giardia in it, but the abstract doesn't mention it specifically. You'd have to read the whole article to find if there are any specific adverse effects for the Giardia vaccine. I don't remember, but I think they either charge an arm and a leg to get a copy or they won't even sell it to lay people. I called them up once to see if I could get a copy of something and they would send me one if I also gave them the name of my vet so he could get one too. Apparently I'm too stoooopid to read it on my own. Bah. Got my vet to copy the article for me. http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2005.227.1102;jsessionid= nfYCvofuBAR7wE8iH0?cookieSet=1&journalCode=javma buglady take out the dog before replying Thanks buglady, Its a lot to take in. Actually I can answer a few of the things you brought up. > .......I think most vets consider the giardia vaccine as nonessential. To > me, it's a vaccine in search of a disease. Have your dogs ever been > diagnosed with Giardia? No, but I think I'm probably in a higher risk group than most due to the amount I take my dogs out in to the woods with me, and the amount they drink from mountain streams and what not (exactly what they tell people not to do, to avoid getting it...) > ......Giardia is a major problem in infants in developing countries due to > fecal contamination of water. That doesn't mean your dogs need a vaccine, > because it won't fix this problem. I didn't search enough to find out if > they've got a vaccine for humans, but I didn't find any indication that > there is one that works. Actually this is where I first came across the information. We were chatting in my genetics class, and the subject came up of how its a lot easier to get vaccines approved for animal use than people use. Apparently my genetics prof knew the folks who came up with the giardia vaccine. They apparently looked at the prices to get it approved for use in people, and said, nope we don't have those kinds of dollars. It just cost too much. There is apparently no reason though why the same vaccine shouldn't work for people though (even though it would be illegal to inject yourself or someone else with it...) > .....As most things, it appears the host defense system is the most > important factor in taking care of Giardia infection: > http://iai.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/70/1/11 This is what made me think about it for the old dog. His immune system may be going downhill a bit (he is older after all), and anything I can do to boulster it up might help... > AAHA recommendations for vaccines 2006. The Giardia vaccine is not > recommended because all it does is reduce cyst shedding. > http://www.aahanet.org/About_aaha/vaccine_guidelines06.pdf#search=%22CVM%20g > iardia%20vaccine%20dog%22 I'll have to look some more at that. Some things I read suggested that it prevented infection, and other things I read suggested that helped control the infection, and yet another article I read suggested that it didn't do squat for already infected dogs... > If you want more to read on Giardia go to Google Scholar (hit more and > even > more at main Google site) and input Giardia vaccine. good point. I've got access to a lot of journals though the university (trying to get in to vet school), maybe something good to be found in them... Dale I think I'm probably in a higher risk group than most due to the > amount I take my dogs out in to the woods with me, and the amount they drink > from mountain streams and what not (exactly what they tell people not to do, > to avoid getting it...) ...........All the more indication that if they've been continually exposed and haven't been suffering from bouts of diarrhea, then they're probably immune. Nature has a way of taking care of a lot of these things! Apparently my genetics > prof knew the folks who came up with the giardia vaccine. They apparently > looked at the prices to get it approved for use in people, and said, nope we > don't have those kinds of dollars. It just cost too much. There is > apparently no reason though why the same vaccine shouldn't work for people > though (even though it would be illegal to inject yourself or someone else > with it...) ......For people, IMHO it would make much more sense to ensure a clean drinking water supply for those that need it! As for the same vax for dogs and people, there's a MUCH higher requirement WRT *risk*, when developing any kind of drug or vaccine for people. > This is what made me think about it for the old dog. His immune system may > be going downhill a bit (he is older after all), and anything I can do to > boulster it up might help... .........And all the more reason to believe that at this point he's immune to Giardia. Better to focus on good food and maybe some anti-oxidants in his old age. And above all make sure the gut is in good shape, as a healthy mucosal lining and the presence of good bacteria will hinder getting something like Giardia more than anything else you can do. Toss some eggs and sardines in his bowl a few times a week. Any transitory diarrhea I treat with probiotics for a few days. > I'll have to look some more at that. Some things I read suggested that it > prevented infection, and other things I read suggested that helped control > the infection, and yet another article I read suggested that it didn't do > squat for already infected dogs... ............You need to read the whole paper, there's sometimes a huge disconnect between what the abstract says and the paper proves. I read a study on that once - it was more than 10% I think. Since you have access via a university, this shouldn't be a problem. buglady take out the dog before replying > I think I'm probably in a higher risk group than most due to the >> amount I take my dogs out in to the woods with me, and the amount they [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and haven't been suffering from bouts of diarrhea, then they're probably > immune. Nature has a way of taking care of a lot of these things! Well the old guy probably wasn't exposed much when he was younger (I've only had him since last November), so he might not be. The old guy actually has been suffering to loose stool and occaisional bout of diarrhea (along with cramps), probably a totally seperate issue, but it does make you wonder. Put him on a probiotic for a while (Eagle Pack's powder stuff), and it just made it worse. Took him off the powder, then he seemed to get better (although his stool does look fairly loose on occaision). > Apparently my genetics >> prof knew the folks who came up with the giardia vaccine. They apparently [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > and people, there's a MUCH higher requirement WRT *risk*, when developing > any kind of drug or vaccine for people. True enough, I think the key thing that my prof was getting at was that the researchers felt they could satisfy the risk requirements for the people, but they didn't have the $$$ to prove that they could satisfy the risk requirements. >> I'll have to look some more at that. Some things I read suggested that it >> prevented infection, and other things I read suggested that helped [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > study on that once - it was more than 10% I think. Since you have access > via a university, this shouldn't be a problem. I think the big problem was, for starters they weren't all journal articles, but more to the point they were from very diferent dates, some of the articles seemed to be written in response to what some of the others were saying (i.e. a more detailed study). I'll have a better look around when I get the chance (for now I'm busy studying for my cell biology final on saturday, in fact I should be doing that rather than reading usenet....) > buglady > take out the dog before replying Dale > Well the old guy probably wasn't exposed much when he was younger (I've only > had him since last November), so he might not be. The old guy actually has [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it worse. Took him off the powder, then he seemed to get better (although > his stool does look fairly loose on occaision). Maybe it's bouts of pancreatitis, and some digestive enzymes might help. Regards I work in a veterinary hospital (actually 2) as a technician and I've not yet seen or heard of the vaccine for Giardia. It's a touch question to consider. On the one hand, you don't want your dog to get it, but on the other hand, of all the things dogs can get these days drinking out of "dirty water", giardia is probably the easiest to diagnose and easiest to medicate. The real concern we're seeing in our area (NH) is Leptospirosis. Granted, Giardia is serious and can lead to lots of problems, (diarrhea, dehydration, etc...) > I recently discovered in my genetics class that there exists a vaccination > against giardia. Since then I've been thinking about it for my dogs. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Dale in thread news:1155938076.250136.238600@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com: "Dave" <davec007@comcast.net> whittled the following words: > I work in a veterinary hospital (actually 2) as a technician and I've > not yet seen or heard of the vaccine for Giardia. It's a touch [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >> >> Dale I called my vet this morning, and asked him about Giardia Vaccine.He says yes, he has it. No, I don't want it. He was with a client, and said he'd call me back. I told the receptionist that he needn't bother. If he said it was a bad idea, that was good enough for me. |
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