Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / September 2006

I have shown him to be still selling his DDR Machine even though he
professes he does not Publicly, and Spike Collars !
He has gone to the Islamic sites Posting lies about me, where I am very
popular.
To have an inn to post his rantings there ( in my name ) and not appear
that he is cross-posting to topics that are not relevant to the Islamic
sites.
The COWARD !
SPAMMER AND LIAR !

HE IS CERTIFIABLE !

Mirelle

<snip>

HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn you pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin dog murderin active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case and professional dog
trainin FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,

mirelle aka jotnaringin aka show dog bark aka vera means Jerry
Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard  <{) ; ~ ) >

Seems mirelle aka jotnaringin aka show dog bark aka vera is goin
through the PREDICTABLE PSYCHOTIC EPISODE when parents
and dog lovers discover they've ABUSED their children an murdered
and crippled their dogs, like HOWE you been teachin, lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn <{) : ~ )  >

That so? Sez you, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?:

                     WORDS OF WISDOM
                From Our Own Lynn Kosmakos
           1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft
                       EVERY DAY
                   For Twenty Years

 I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

 "I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

 I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
 learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
 information I have learned.  But if I were ever
 to post such sh*t,  I would hope that every other
 reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

 "Community is an evolutionary thing that we
 earn the right to participate in by observing
 the easily understood rules and contributing
 to in constructive ways."

 "It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
 - she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
 a comment she made about scarey side effects of
 Lithium.  Hardly.  After 17 years on it, I think
 I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
 any side effect is far less frightening than the
 very real dangers of life without it."

 Lynn K.

------------------------------­­­-----------

Oh? You mean sumpthin LIKE THIS?:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong  - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.  Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog.   I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use.   Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars.  At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8)  Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog.   I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation.   Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag.   (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

Elaine McClung, President of Pet Rescue, Animal Comissioner

Brevard Co FL, writes: Sep 9, 2000

"I ordered from Jerry a long time ago.. He was helpful and
the order was filled promptly. Yes, Doggie Do Right does
indeed exist.

I "had" a very aggressive female Pit.. She was showing
aggression not only towards Dok, Rhodesian Ridgeback,
but our cats and even us.

She now plays with Dok, even to the point of allowing him
to take a toy or bone from her. She no longer shows any
aggression towards us. She is showing some aggression
towards the cats but that is down to a warning growl.

It is not just my opinion that all this aggression existed
before Doggie Do Right as we were advised by three vets
to euthanize her.

I do very much believe that DDR will help JR as I know it
has helped my dogs and cats. I do think your product is a
valuable tool in helping with aggression and other behavior
problems.

I am in Feral CatNetwork (we spay and neuter approximately
100 feral cats a month), I am also a member of a local AKC
dog obedience club, member of a local AKC agility club,
president of Pet Rescue, board member of the Alliance for
Care and Welfare of Animals (on the board are: county
commissioner, vet. rep., rep. from AKC dog club, CFA cat
club, assistant County manager, head of animal control,
director of two different shelters, etc.) and Space
Coast Feline Network http://www.spacecoastfelinenet work.com

Thanks, Elaine,

             ===================

INTRO TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING MANUAL
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D. F.R.S.H.

Several years ago one of my old students telephoned
to me and asked me what I knew about Doggie Do
Right, a device to cause your neighbor's dog to stop
barking.

I had not heard of the device, nor its inventor, Jerry
Howe, but I telephoned, read his website, and told
my graduate that I thought the device was worth a
trial - indeed I shut up the dogs in my neighborhood
by turning on Jerry's supersonic device.

After all we all know that dogs respond to whistles
humans cannot hear, so why not respond to "attaboy"
sounds which humans cannot hear.

My student lived far from my Florida homestead, so
he tried it on the three incredibly savage, hyperactive
and noisy dogs who lived behind a tall fence just 3 feet
back of his bedroom.

Hot rats! The device worked,

Andy got his sleep and I didn't think much of the
matter again.

A few months ago I had new neighbors on each
side of my house, four of them, all with noisy
unshuttupable dogs. Argh!

So I foned Andrew in Virgina, received the intelligence
that his neighbors dogs were still quiet, and then I foned
Jerry Howe, the inventor of Doggie Do Right, who came
to visit me.

Merlin walked into my office.

Jerry is a slender fellow with a belly button lenghth grey
beard tapering down his chest. I liked him immediately,
and I applied his instrument to the neighborhood again
which again became silent.

It occured to me that if this ultrasonic field worked with
dogs that we ought at least to ask the question, what
happens to humans in range of the device???

I asked Jerry to give me a list of customers and began
inquiring among them. One thing became immediately
evident. The Doggie Do Right not only shuts up your
neighbors' dogs, it calms and modifies your husband's behavior.

Holey Moley, Captain Marvel, this device has major potential.

In the meantime Jerry gave me a copy of his Wits End
Dog Training Manual. I was delighted. He also introduced
me to the world of professional dog trainers some of whom
even have Ph.D.s in psychology.

This was not such a delight as it appeared that none
of these luminaries had actually read Skinner, Lazarus
or other fountains of wisdom in psychology. Indeed, it
seemed as though they knew very little about the laws
of behavior at all!

Punishment and confrontation seemed to be their
major stock in trade.

Well, if you go to my website, www.drbiofeedback.com
you can read of the career of Sam Corson, I.P. Pavlov's
last student.

Sam demonstrated that rehabilitation of hyperactive
dogs can easily and readily be done using TLC, tender
loving care is at the root of the scientific management
of doggies.

Pavlov told us so 100 years ago.

So what are these degreed morons doing punishing
dogs, and shouting "NO" into their doggie faces? If
you pick up B.F.Skinner's last book, CUMULATIVE
RECORD, included in it is an essay by Keller Breland
and Maryann Breland entitled THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS.

Skinner deliberately included his students' chapter
to emphasize that you cannot manage the behavior
of animals unless you take into consideration 1. the
animal's evolutionary niche (who is the animal?);
2. the animal's personal history (who is the animal?)
and 3, the instinctive repetoire of the animal (who is
the animal?) and 4. the personality of the animal (who
is the animal?).

The Brelands moved far from the white rat. "Thirty-eight species,
totaling over 6,000 individual animals, have been conditioned, and
we have dared to tackle such unlikely subjects as reindeer, cockatoos,
raccoons, porpoises,  and whales. "

Jerry Howe spends most of his times with dogs, but
he has learned Pavlov's lesson well. Dogs are individuals,
they are individual DOGS, and they respond most directly
and immediately to love and tender loving care.

Read with pleasure, and then go love your dog.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

Who's Who Honoree since 1983

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)

"Remember this - The decision to "do right" that most
helps a dog's character is the decision that he makes
himself. You cannot teach a dog to not want something,
any more than you can teach a human not to  want
something."

"I'm a Koehler-based trainer and used almost
 exactly the same techniques with my very dog
 aggressive bitch.

 2.  I have often rejected many of Koehler's Capt.
 13 methods, from his response to digging to tieing
 things in a dog's mouth.

 FWIW, I use almost none of Koehler's training
 techniques, having found methods I prefer, but
 still find much value in his approach to dogs.

 Briefly, I didn't refer to Koehler and didn't
 mean Koehler when I used the term
 "confrontational".

  Natalie, it is next to impossible to form any kind
  of educated opinion on the work of the late Wm.
  Koehler from what is said or quoted in this newsgroup.

  The conclusion you have reached illustrates that.

  "Remember this - The decision to "do right" that
  most helps a dog's character is the decision that
  he makes himself."

  Personally, I'm not a Koehler trainer,
  I don't use a choke chain, and I don't
  believe a dog learns anything by being
  hung.

 Please don't make the mistake of believing Jerry's
 characterization of me or any other trainer.  He has
 never met any of us and has no idea how anyone
 here actually trains.

  Jerry labelling someone as a Koehler type
  doesn't make it so.

  Lynn K.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

 lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
 For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
 pass it through the crate door.  Attach a line to
 it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
 if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar,"  Lynn K.

          "Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

                  <except when it is>

     "Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
     just to be able to handle the dogs.  For example,
     we need to crate train a dog immediately because
     they are usually in need of medical care and they
     are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
     necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

          "Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

                  <except when it is>

    "So what?  Whoever said that it's right to
    always not confront?  We sure can try, but
    a dog who knows a command and growls when
    given it is certainly being confrontational".
    You can't simply walk away and pretend it
    didn't happen or leave it for later work in
    every situation." Lynn K.

              --------------------

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

  "I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
 one shelter.)  But their ability to set their own
 schedules and duties causes a great deal of
 scheduling overhead.

 And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
 volunteers get the meaningful experience that
 they work for.

  Someone has to be responsible for that
  Volunteer Program, and it is best done
  by a non-volunteer."

  Lynn K.

 "I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
 every adoptable dog on intake.  I frankly felt that the
 effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
 older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

 Should I have refused to groom them?

  Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
 had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

 Lynn K.

Subject: "As Much As It Breaks My Heart,The Dog Cannot Be Saved."

Date: Tues, Aug 29 2006 4:59 am

HOWEDY lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn,

java...@yahoo.com wrote:

kyler likes to jerk choke shock and murder innocent defenseless
dumb critters just like HOWE you do, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

 lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
 For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
 pass it through the crate door.  Attach a line to
 it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.-
 if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar,"  Lynn K.

          "Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

                  <except when it is>

     "Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
     just to be able to handle the dogs.  For example,
     we need to crate train a dog immediately because
     they are usually in need of medical care and they
     are in foster homes with other dogs. It's a safety
     necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

          "Training is not confrontation,"Lynn K.

                  <except when it is>

    "So what?  Whoever said that it's right to
    always not confront?  We sure can try, but
    a dog who knows a command and growls when
    given it is certainly being confrontational".
    You can't simply walk away and pretend it
    didn't happen or leave it for later work in
    every situation." Lynn K.

              --------------------

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.)  But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

           ----------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake.  I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

           ----------------

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

         -----------------------

That so?  Well then, HOWE could anyWON complain?

Pretty heavy duty STUFF comin from an INCOMPETENT
who can't even train a dog not to fight... according to YOUR
OWN PERSONAL EXXXPERIENCE with the fameHOWES
dr. dunbar:

That's DOCTOR ian dunbar, dog behavior fraudS.

You mean P as in PUNISHMENT or P as in PRAISE?

Or P as in POO POO?

We're gonna quit using CONfHOWENDING scrabble
terms and RELY on INTELLIGENCE and HONESTY,
things you've YET to learn abHOWET cause you'll
do and say ANY THING to defend your alleged right
to hurt and murder dogs as you PREFER.

IOW MOORE DHOWEble talk. lying "I LOVE KOEHELR"
lynn REPORTED his "METHOD" DIDN'T WORK for her
and her PALS who were at that "grHOWEL class":

Lynn K.:
In a talk on dog-dog aggression on 5/27.
Given his propensity for repeating himself
verbatim, I'll bet he's also written it somewhere :-)

My biggest take-home from that evening actually
came from a brief conversation with Tricia999 &
some co-workers afterwards.

They confirmed my experience that "growl classes"
don't have a lasting impact on the reactivity of dog
aggressive dogs.

Our common experience was that the desensitization
only lasted for the session and didn't carry forward.

As an aside, you might want to get a copy of the
little training manual they are using for shelter
volunteers at www.openpaw.org

The stuff on teaching people how to get into the
kennel and get an excited dog out for a walk is
excellent. Lynn K.

So you see DOG LOVERS, YOUR METHODS
DON'T WORK and YOUR EXXXPERTS ARE
FRAUDS LIARS DOG ABUSERS COWARDS
and ACTIVE LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL
CASES and IT'S IN BLACK AND WHITE and html.

INDEEDY. Here's nelson murderin a innocent defenseless
dumb critter JUST LIKE HOWE you an kyler do, lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn:

From:  Lynn Kosmakos
Date:  Fri, Nov 3 2000 1:41 am
Email:   Lynn Kosmakos <lkosma...@home.com>

Lori wrote:

Lori, I sincerely wish that were true.  (the too bad to save part)

There is innate temperament that is not shaped by treatment.

The dogs our rescue gets from horrible abuse cases quickly proves that.

OTOH, I also see dogs that have never had a single triggering
incident who cannot be saved.  I've got such a client right now,
a 9 month old GSD who we've been fighting to save for months.

He's been seen by Jean Donaldson and Leslie Nelson and a slew
of others, and has received nothing by loving care all his life.

His littermates are normal, his breeding excellent, and there
was no triggering event or medical cause.  As much as it breaks
my heart, the dog cannot be saved.

Lynn K.

Not even that she PROVED Corson, Pavlov et al WRONG?:

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH, That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can
Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC. Tender Loving
Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management Of
Doggys.  <{) ; ~ ) >

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition,"  Ivan P. Pavlov

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"All animals learn best through play." -- Konrad Lorenz

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

"As much as it breaks my heart, the dog cannot be saved."

Yeah, well not surprisingly it didn't work for jeff dege either.

Wanna know HOWE COME IT DON'T WORK,
lyin "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?:

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and learning
immediately deteriorated."

Of curse there's PLENTY of folks who WON'T LIKE what
they LEARN as it NULIFIES THEIR LIVES, HOWEver
apupriate handling and training IS a LIFE or DEATH
critteria of ETHICAL BREEDING, MORALS and PRINCIPALS.

AIN'T IT <{) ; ~ )  >

Of curse, please feel FREE to advise your clientel to ASK
The Amazing Puppy Wizard in the unlikely event they have
difficulty FOLLOWING the PRECISE INSTRUCTONS in
their own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual. Also,
use it for your children, kats, horses, ferrets and SP-HOWESES:

Kanner (1954) reports that 13 classically autistic
children improved enough to go to school without
"anything that is regarded as good psychotherapy or
as psychotherapy at all..."

Autistic children have been known to become permenantely
social by deinstitutionalization, BY REMOVAL from the parents,
BY RADICAL CHANGES in other environments, and by MASSIVE
DOSAGE of TOUCHING, HOLDING, FONDLING LOVE DESPITE
THE REJECTION OF THE CHILD."

The SCIENCE of Dog training and behavior AIN'T LUCK.
"Luck is for SUCKERS", The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{) ; ~  )   >

       The Methods, Principles And Philosophy Of Behavior
                        Never Change,
                 Or They'd Not Be Scientific
                     And Could Not Obtain
         Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Safe Effective Results
               For All Handler's And All Critters
                      And ALL Behaviors
                ALL OVER THE WHOWEL WILD WORLD,
                      NEARLY INSTANTLY,
        As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Simply Amazing
        Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
        SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
        Manual <{): ~ )  >

                       A DOG Is A Dog;
                     As A KAT Is A KAT;
                   As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
                   As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
                   As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
                 As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
            As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.

                ALL Critters Only Respond In
             PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
                 INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
      To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
                  Which We Create For Them.

             You GET The Critter You TRAINED

            In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
                      FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
                      SAME SAME SAME SAME,
           For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

         Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
              We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
                 And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY
                             MISHANDLING

       "If you talk with the animals, they will talk with you
                  and you will know each other.
        If you do not talk to them, you will not know them,
               and what you do not know you will fear.

                  What one fears, one destroys."
                     Chief Dan George

BWEEEEEAAHHAHHAHAHAAAAAA!!!

You're a lying dog murderin mental case and you can't
post here abHOWETS nodoGdameneD MOORE.

REMEMBER NHOWE?

Ahhh, but THEY ARE INDEED HEELPFUL,
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn <{}: ~ )  >

Naaaaah?

Subject:       Need help with Biting Beagle

From: michael
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2004 10:29 pm
Email: michael <mich...@spamdogtv.com>

Lynn K. wrote:

Oh, thanks for the dog murdering support Lynn Kill.

We knew you'd be along to heelp.

Subject: Re: I Got dead today, courtesy of Lynn K, sincerely,
a Border Collie ( it was magical and mystical and artistic)

Date: 2003-09-01 09:13:41 PST

Lynn K. wrote:

   > After a couple of years of watching and helping at herding trials
   > I don't even pretend to understand all the nuances of what I'm
   > watching, even when scribing.  But every artist needs an audience

   > and I have learned enough to recognize the artistry of a lot of
the
   > BCs I've seen

Yeah, you recognize artistry alright, just like you recognized it in
this Border Collie, who was titled, flashy, dynamite, and looking for a
great home and a great life with an owner like Melanie Lee Chang, who,
even though she's not terribly bright or talented of a trainer (and
doesn't know much about Biology), would have had ZERO problems
with this dog.

But no, no, no, no, instead of giving this dog a great life, you
artistically f.cking MURDERED her you LITHIUM and ZOLOFT DOPED up DOG
MURDERING F#%KING MANIAC.

Artistic and Magic my a.s you mindless brazen dog slaughterer. Here's a
few more of your victims. Never mind the puppies who jump on volunteers
who have to DIE as a result at the "shelters" where you "evaluate" and
"rescue" dogs.

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!

----------------------------------
Lynn K, kills a great dog
----------------------------------

Exactly.  A couple of years ago I evaluated a BC bitch in rescue who
had gotten in 20-25 bites on her foster family the 1st day in their
home.
The problem was that there were a whole slew of people lined up who
wanted her because she was a dynamite herding dog, titled before she
was 2, flashy, etc..  Most of these people were single women

           [editor's note, like Melanie Lee Chang, who would
            have had ZERO problems with this dog, even though
            she's 1/10th the trainer Michael is]

into competitive herding who had no children or plans to have any.

Testing the dog revealed that she had a safety zone of about 3 ft and
would use her mouth to drive out anyone who came within that space
(other than whoever was holding her leash)

She also would not tolerate any entrance to her airspace.

The deciding factor was that eye contact was also a trigger
and the severity of the bite increased with eye's moved
lowerer to her level. IOW, the shorter the person, the harder
the bite, and kids were shortest of all."

           [This is HOWE lynn KillMooreDogs seals a
           a dog's fate and this is HOWE SHE KILLS
           DOGS. She kills them with WORDS, not with
           poison. She lets sucker animal lovers or
           sucker volunteers do the dirty work of
           poisoning them and dumping their bodies,
           after she condemns them to death with
           her "evaluation"] --editor's note

We decided that even if we could feel perfectly safe with a person and
situation we placed her into, she still had to live in a world where
there were children and we couldn't, in good conscience, put a known
risk like her into that world.  People's lives and situation change and
any adopter might have future contact with children that they don't
have at present.

She was put down.

          [because of Lynn K.s Passionate concerns about
           LIABILITY INSURANCE, the ONLY thing she cares
           about, besides her REPUTATION as an "animal
           lover" BWHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAA!!!] --editor's note

Lynn K.

---------------------------------------------

MOOOOORE DOG KILLING FROM LYNN KILLMAKOS

LYNN K. "I'LL PUT A BITER DOWN AS FAST AS ANYONE"

==============================================
On her role in killing dogs in the SF Bay area, a role she claims she
doesn't play anymoore.
==============================================

"I'll put down a biter as fast as anyone - provided I have seen the
behavior and know that the dog is in fact a biter."
                               --Lynn K.

-----------------------------

"I've been in dogs for over 40 years and worked with
many rescue organizations and with shelters in 3 states.  I've
been in the position of evaluating court-seized dogs in bite
cases."
                               --Lynn K.

------------------------------

No.  I evaluated Hera.  It wasn't all poor upbringing and management.

Lynn K.

--------------------------

Exactly.  A couple of years ago I evaluated a BC bitch in rescue who
had gotten in 20-25 bites on her foster family the 1st day in their
home.
The problem was that there were a whole slew of people lined up who
wanted her because she was a dynamite herding dog, titled before she
was 2, flashy, etc..  Most of these people were single women

           [editor's note, like Melanie Lee Chang, who would
            have had ZERO problems with this dog, even though
            she's 1/10th the trainer Michael is]

into competitive herding who had no children or plans to have any.

Testing the dog revealed that she had a safety zone of about 3 ft and
would use her mouth to drive out anyone who came within that space
(other than whoever was holding her leash).

She also would not tolerate any entrance to her airspace.
The deciding factor was that eye contact was also a trigger
and the severity of the bite increased with eye's moved
lowerer to her level. IOW, the shorter the person, the harder
the bite, and kids were shortest of all."

           [This is HOWE lynn KillMooreDogs seals a
           a dog's fate and this is HOWE SHE KILLS
           DOGS. She kills them with WORDS, not with
           poison. She lets sucker animal lovers or
           sucker volunteers do the dirty work of
           poisoning them and dumping their bodies,
           after she condemns them to death with
           her "evaluation"] --editor's note

We decided that even if we could feel perfectly safe with a person and
situation we placed her into, she still had to live in a world where
there were children and we couldn't, in good conscience, put a known
risk like her into that world.  People's lives and situation change and
any adopter might have future contact with children that they don't
have
at present.

She was put down.

          [because of Lynn K.s Passionate concerns about
           LIABILITY INSURANCE, the ONLY thing she cares
           about, besides her REPUTATION as an "animal
           lover" BWHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAA!!!] --editor's note

Lynn K.
---------------------------

"I had a somewhat similar situation 2 weeks ago.  I got a call from the
city pound informing me that a dog that had once been in our Humane
Society program had been picked up and was scheduled to die the next
day.  After much research, I found out that the dog was never really
one
of ours, but that a foster home we had briefly used, then fired, took a
litter, let most die needlessly, and this was the sole survivor.  I got
the dog extended 24 hours, sent 6 interested parties to the pound to
see
the dog, and ran to the pound to let them know the owner's contact
info.

          It turns out that they knew well who the owner was -
          over 20 complaints against her and the dog had been
          picked up twice that month.

          She went to Mexico for a long vacation and left the dog
          in the back yard, trusting neighbors to throw food over
          the fence.  To make it worse, I evaluated the dog as
          unsafe, and then the dog went for a kennel worker and
          was declared unsafe by the pound, and only available to us.

The pound would not let the owner reclaim the dog, even
if she were available to do so.  So that left me with -

- a dog with unclear legal ownership
- an unsuitable owner who wanted the dog, but couldn't have the dog
- an unadoptable dog for the general public
- a dog that couldn't go to anyone who would be able to help him
- and no foster homes or resources to take him into our rescue program.

The dog died.  And I had to tell that irresponsible
owner on her return why her dog had to die."

Lynn K.

          [it's always a tragedy and the dog
           just up and dies. But Lynn KILL
           won't mention her part in the
           killing. She condemned that innocent
           dog to death simply because it got lost.
           But Lynn Kill will ignore that.
           Lynn K always blames
           someone else when she is involved in
           killing a perfectly good dog.

           The organizations Lynn K is
           a part of GET PAID TO KILL DOGS,
           and somebody has to make up stupid
           reasons to kill perfectly good dogs
           Because the STATE is paying those
           "shelters" to ELIMINATE dogs & puppies
           Lynn K. plays a role in that capacity,
           despite her lies and denials. The STATE
           needs those dogs dead, and Lynn Kill
           helps them achieve their objective, like
           she did in her part in the confiscation
           and murder of the lost dog in the case
           above. The dog HAD TO DIE, because Lynn
           KILL said so.]
                      --editor's note

-----------------------------

Shows you what you know.  It was SF, not LA, and I evaluated Hera.
She was fear aggressive.  Period.  No training of any kind on that
dog, much to the DA's chagrin because he wanted to be able to charge
them with Murder 2.

Lynn K.

[Hera was one of the dogs involved in the San Francisco Diane Whipple
dog fatality. Lynn K. frequently brags that she was involved in
evaluating that dog. That dog, of course, was killed]
                      --editor's note

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There's several threads going on now in .behavior about dominance
problems.

In one of them (HELP! Life or Death...) I gave the 21 management rules
I
use for a dominant dog.  For real hardcases, the other option is to
escalate to a full NILIF regime.  Frankly, any dog that doesn't respond
to either of those options is a rogue, unsafe, and should be destroyed.

Lynn K.

           [Lynn K. does not pull any punches
            when it comes to killing dogs or
            recommending that they be killed for
            not getting with the program, or for
            jumping up and playing with volunteers
            at one of her "shelters"

            ARRRRRRRGH!!!]  --editor's note
----------------------------------------

--
this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com

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WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
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HOWEDY stan the Nazi almost man,

Yeah. Seems you're a dog abusin mental case like show dog bark, eh
stanly?

She's been jerkin an chokin an murderin her own dogs JUST LIKE HOWE YOU
BEEN DOIN:

HOWEDY stan the Nazi man,

                   Research Laboratory

Others have already described the pinch collar's physical
characteristics. I'll attempt to describe the proper function.

A prong (or pinch) collar is meant to mimick the corrective
bite to the neck that dogs give one another. For instance,
if a puppy does something that is completely unacceptable
to it's mother, she will nip him on the neck to show, in
no uncertain terms, that the behavior the puppy is doing
won't be tolerated.

The puppy understands this instinctively. The loose skin
on a dog's neck is made for carrying it as a pup, and has
the extra elasticity to resist a bite by another dog (or
a prong collar).

On the other hand, humans who believe in corporal punishment
might whack a child on the behind to correct an undesirable
or dangerous behavior.

Dogs don't understand hitting- they nip and bite. A correction
with a prong collar involves immediately reacting to an undesirable
or dangerous behavior by "popping" the leash (preferably a leather
leash, which stretches less), thereby quickly tightening the collar
and mimicking a bite to the neck.

A proper correction is very brief and is not held, but a "pop and
release". If it's not a sharp enough "snap", it will simply pull
on the dog's neck, not unlike a regular collar or choke chain.

Pulling on a dog's neck can damage the esophagus.

The approach our trainer taught us is simple- use the prong
collar for basic obedience and safety training, and use treats
or other positive reinforcement for "non-critical" training, s
uch as tricks.

The idea being that the life safety stuff, such as coming when
called, heeling, etc (which would prevent the dog from doing
something that might hurt him, such as running into the street)
warrants the type of correction a mother dog would give.

It is VITAL to do this correctly, and I know we would have been
lost if we'd tried to use this method without direct professional
guidance. We might have even hurt our dog.

What we've gained from the professional training we've had is
a wonderfully trained Lab (who had been "given up" by someone
else at 12 mos old) who loves and understands us, without the
need to choke, harass, or scold her constantly.

She was trained very, very quickly with the prong collar.

And to answer the question that might be on some folk's
minds, No, she doesn't run when she sees us coming with
her prong collar-she runs to us and sits to have it put
on, because she knows it's time for training, which she loves.

Subject: dog keeps tripping me

"Stanley Barthfarkle" <sba...@yahoo.con> wrote in message
news:N%2ec.52879$z_.7778@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...

Don't Step On This Turd On Your Way Outta Here:

"The Best Way To Teach Him To Stay Away Is To
Step On Him Once. Seriously.

Hold Back The Dobie Girl So That Izzy Can Put
Simon In His Place." BINACA bethFIST

Yeah. Your dog does lots of things like
eatin garbage while you're standing there
tellin her not to and gettin intestinal surgery
over it and enjoying gettin shocked on your
shock fence.

Your posting history will reveal you're a dog
abuser and a mental case.

Yeah...

THAT'S HOWE COME she trips you.

INDEED.

Cause she wants to trip you cause you're
an inconsiderate selfish abusive Nazi.

That's HOWE COME you can't post here
abHOWETS noMOORE.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >

From:  The Puppy Wizard
Date:  Sun, Feb 15 2004

HOWEDY stan the man,

He said he's gonna BURN his dog, like you do yours,
stan the not so much man as you'd like to think you are.

He's gonna shock and jerk and choke his dog
on a pronged spiked pinch choke collar and
try a limited slip choke collar whick the pronged
spiked pinch choke collar IS, and when spring
comes he'll put up a real fence and use the shock
fence as a backup just to be SAFE.

INDEEDY. Seems every dog lover here recommends
HURTIN his dog like you do yours, stan the not so
much of a man that he can't HOWEtwit the cunnin of
the domestic puppy dog or you wouldn't NEED to
HURT him to begin with. Would you, stan the man
withHOWET a brain.

Like your dog made a decision to swallow garbage
before you could HURT him to make him give it up?
You caused your dog to eat poison and need intestinal
surgery like janet boss's dog Franklin and diddler's dog
Danny cause you assault them when you catch them
eatin sumpthin you AIN'T GOT THE INTELLECT to
TRAIN them not to TAKE in the first place, stan the
halfwitted man.

THAT'S HOWE COME jay can't train his dog not
to jump the fence. Aversives DON'T WORK 100%
CONSISTENTLY like The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Students
REPORT RIGHT HERE. You know, the WONS
you call LIARS and FORGERIES.

You're a imbecile, stan the man.

It could work HOWET like Robert Crim's DEAD
DOG Fritz and Misty's DEAD DOG Peaches and
laura arlove's DEAD DOG Chewie and tara o. aka
tee's DEAD DOG Summer and steve walker's DEAD
DOG Sampson and kwbrown's DEAD DOG Teena
and purplepony's DEAD DOG Raggdoll and jls's
DEAD DOG and he never even mentioned his name.

Perhaps ed w of PETLOSS dot COIN got his name?

Cheer's, stan the man?

Takes The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual LESS time
to TRAIN their dogs than jay has spent DISS-
CUSSIN it with DOG ABUSERS and MENTAL
CASES who can't even train their own dogs
not to ESCAPE their shock fences.

Of curse. Takes MINUTES to train a
dog not to jump the fence or steal
GARBAGE and swallow it if you don't
DO what YOU and your pals here
abHOWETS, DO.

jay's dog woulda been TRAINED by NHOWE had
he told us ITS name and what color IT is...

"I Wrote To Purdue And Told Them Their Advice Did Not Work.
If I Had Not Found The Wits End Method I Know There Was No
Hope For Him And He Would Have Hurt Someone And Had To
Be Killed. I Wrote To Purdue And Told Them I Told Them Their
Advice Did Not Work. Sunshine's Still Acting Like A New Dog."

Sunshine is now 100% trustworthy off lead in public and is
about to enjoy doing THERAPY WORK with his nurse owner.
Professora Daniel and Sunshine are going to SUE Purdue
University and dra patricia mcconnel and their trainers for
MALPRACTICE, ANIMAL ABUSE, PUBIC ENDANGERMENT,
and FRAUD.

Everything we've been taught about dog behavior
is DEAD WRONG.

Subject: many angry people in this group

HOWEDY stan the not so much of a man,

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!

You're WON of HOWER LYING DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASES:

fence controllers- (no, I'm not selling anything, I just
found the links for you :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2380143673&cate
gory=20748

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2595709686&cate
gory=46529

http://store.yahoo.com/animalworldnetwork/elfenenforpe.html

http://store.yahoo.com/animalworldnetwork/fidecpetdetk.html

This is the brand that we have, but not the same model....similar.
http://premierproductsonline.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Store_Code=
PPO&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=97010

http://www.cornerhardware.com/item_226723/Lawn-Garden/Fencing-Edgi
ng/Electric-Fence-Controls/-K9-Pet-Electric-Fence-Controller.html

good luck..

I posted the following info previously to address what we did
to prevent our dog from climbing our 4' chain link fence. Same
would likely help in your situation for jumping, except that
you might want to run the hot wire near or at the top of the fence.

It is important that your dog's initial attempt at escape after
wiring your fence be supervised so that you can assure the proper
correction is given for an escape attempt.

If the dog touches the hot wire and the fence and/or ground at
the same, he will get a safe but very uncomfortable shock.

As for potential digging, this one is even easier- buy 24"
chicken wire at the hardware store, and a couple boxes of
00 landscape fabric tiedowns (look like long giant staples).

lay the wire on the ground at the fence, preferablt sliding
it under a few inches, and secure it to the ground with the
landscape staples. The grass will grow through it (or cover
it with mulch), and if it is laid down flat and secure, you
should be able to trim/mow over it with no prblem.

No more digging under the fence.

ORIGINAL POST-

Your local farm supply store will probably carry a small electric
fence head-end unit that will put out less current than a standard
cattle fence unit.

When our previous dog started climbing our fence, we used this
to power a 16 guage galvanized wire, attached to plastic standoffs,
which ran across the face of the fence 12" high. Our dog stopped
climbing immediately, and after his initial "shock", we didn't
even have to leave it on- the wire itself became a deterrent.

It also prevented him from digging out.

Our controller was about $25, and a 500' spool of galvanized
wire about $10, 50 plastic standoffs for a chain link fence
about $15. DO NOT USE A REGULAR ELECTRIC WIRE STRAIGHT FROM
THE OUTLET. YOU WILL KILL SOMEONE/SOMETHING.

Same goes for a car battery- someone will end up suing you.

Do it right.

Some folks might think this approach is cruel, but if you
consider that the current from a small livestock fence
controller is 110volts a/c at VERY LOW amperage, and you
could hold on to the wire without being hurt (though unpleasant),
this approach is much less cruel than what could happen to the
dog if he/she got out and got hurt, or hurt someone else.

By the way, when I ran the wire, I did it when the dog was in
the house since I didn't want him to associate the shock with
something that I caused.

I don't know if this worked, but I would like to think that
he blamed the "evil fence" rather than me for his shock.

ADDENDUM--

Also, make sure you either play with the dog every day, or
have someone else who can do it. Dogs like Shepherds need
at least 1 hour of vigorous exercise every day- fetch,
running, or a very long walk work well.

Socialization with other dogs/people is important as well.
When you can find the time, when work allows it, talk to
an obediance trainer about showing you how to train your dog.

It only takes about 15 minutes per day or even every other
day to achieve good results. (at least for us, using a prong
collar) You'll be surprised at how much dogs love to "work" f
or their owners, and how amazing they can be when trained
properly.

Your dog will love it.

PS- yes, some of the posters here are less than user-friendly,
especially if you don't craft yopur words carefully. Just
remember that everyone here, yourself included, are dog people,
and most dog people I know can be a real pain in the a.s when
it comes to dealing with their own kind with respect.

They all mean well, though- they care about your dog.

                ===============

HOWEDY stan the Nazi man,

"Stanley Barthfarkle" <sba...@yahoo.con> wrote in message
news:LGqdc.9861$r26.5703@newssvr32.news.prodigy.com...

Yeah. leah's a real EXXXPERT on dogs behavin badly.

Cause there's NO truth to it.

WONderful, stanley.

INDEEDY.

All behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students all over the Whole Wild
World REPORTgettin 100% TOTAL NON PHYSCIAL
CONTROL of all their dog's behaviors NEARLY
INSTANTLY.

You call them liars and forgeries, stanley.

That he's askin liars dog abusers cowards punks
thugs and long term incurable mental patients who
got the same problems with their own dogs for
advice for behaviors they can't train...

THAT'S a SYMPTOM of MENTAL ILLNESS.

THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard SEZ "DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT
POST HERE abHOWETS."

A dog is a dog you dumb freakin Nazi.

A dog is STILL a dog.

THAT'S INSANE. Dogs have PUPPY BEHAVIOR
PROBLEMS cause you bums ain't got the INTELLECT
to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.

Right. Is that the WON who eats garbage while
you're trying to force her not to on lead?

You shock your dog to stop IT from ESCAPING, stanley the Nazi.

Cause she's HYPERACTIVE cause you shock
and jerk and choke her on your pronged spiked
pinch choke collar, stanley the Nazi.

That so, stanley the Nazi? If your dog was "VERY
WELL TRAINED" you WOULDN'T NEED to HURT her.

IOW she does as she pleases.

When you're not standin right there ready
to HURT her, stanley the Nazi.

INDEEDY. That's on accHOWENT of they like
to jerk and choke their dogs on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and shock and lock them in
boxes.

All dog behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
stanley the Nazi or The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students would be
callin The Amazing Puppy Wizard A LIAR, stanly the Nazi.

Seems the only someWON callin The Amazing
Puppy Wizard a LIAR are long term active
INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and Nazis, stanley.

That so? Perhaps that's on accHOWENT
of it takes two years of constant repression
to go through all the behavior problems a
dog can entertrain, stanley the Nazi.

That so? Is that HOWE COME you shock
and jerk and choke your dogs and lock them
in boxes to avoid the behavior problems you
don't have the intellect to train, stanley the Naizi?

Nazi children, stanley the Nazi? Your pal
tara o. aka tee's little girl is on anti psychotic
medication in first grade for the same same
same same reasons she MURDERED her
DEAD DOG Summer.

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

You're a lying dog abusing MENTAL CASE and NAZI, stanley.

ALL behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

INDEED?

You mean like the human adults who jerk and
choke them on pronged spiked pinch choke
collars and shock them and lie abHOWET it,
stanley the Nazi?

That so, stanley? The Amazing Puppy Wizard
sez you're full of CRAP, stanley.

You're blowin smoke up HOWER arses again, stanley the Nazi.

You can't TRUST a kid if you haven't been TRUSTWORTHY, stanley.

You HURT and INTIMIDATE your dogs and if you got kids
you abuse them likeWIZE stanley the Nazi, THAT'S HOWE
COME you couldn't think of TRAININ them to take care
of the HOWES for a few days alone.

Cause you're FULL OF CRAP you stinkin Nazi.

Is that your opinion as a liar a dog abuser a
mental case or a Nazi, stanley the Nazi?

WHOA!

You're the WON who ain't got the INTELLECT
to HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy
dog withHOWET HURTIN and MURDERIN them.

That so? What's your dog's COMMUNICATION
abHOWET you jerkin and choking and shocking
IT, santly the Nazi communicator?

That so? WHAT LANGUAGE do you need to READ and
UNDERSTAND abHOWET JERKING and CHOKING and SHOCKING
your dog to train IT, stanley the dHOWEbletalkin Nazi?

That'll make the dog anxiHOWES.

That's a lie. HOWEsbreakin is INSTINCTIVE.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Students NEVER
crate their dogs cause THAT CONfHOWENDS
HOWEsbreakin. The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
Students dogs are WORKIN PROTECTION by
six months of age.

That's HOWE COME you and your MENTALLY
ILL LYING DOG ABUSING COWARD Nazi pals
can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )   >

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Beth wrote:

Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.

The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on
putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.

Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P  So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv..  at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.

At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.

By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already
ran away.

Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30"  within that thread
is mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days.
I stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated
that his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.

The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.

Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes,  I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.

Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda.  It worked and I now have a great housedog!

I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to
lose another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with
little kids.  I and my boys still miss her.  Sometimes I
still look to see if she came home when we get back from trips.

Maybe Peach would still have ran away... I don't know
and never will....

~misty

                    ---------------

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given
you a bum steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of
losing their careers and reputations....

Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and
sharing...J;~)
                           ---------------

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news

16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of
how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on
Peach not wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

                ---------------

misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net.

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained.  A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars.  If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog
in our yard again.

The price was too high:-( ~misty

             --------------------------------

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:12208-3BB67479-427@storefull-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net.

Hi Cathy!

Yes I used The Wits End Method to train my girl, Zelda.
You can check the archives and see I'm a real person..

I post in misc.kids.breastfeeding, alt.cats rec.pets.cats.annecdotes
(not lately, my kitty died) rec.pets.dogs.behavior rec.pets.birds and
a ton of webtv firewalled ngs.

Zelda and her mom, Peach (RB) both loved to run the
neighborhood with my neighbors 2 male dogs.  An e-fence
couldn't keep them home, chains pulled up and Peach could
jump/climb a 5 ft. fence.

I wrote in here for advice and felt like Jerry had jumped
down my throat.  Upon re-reading his post to me..well..it
hit home hard that I was being abusive to my dog.

The thought of shocking my dog ever again makes me
want to puke.

Like I've said before... I might not like the way Jerry
treats some of the other posters but he gave me ( for _free_)
a way to teach myself and my dog.

I can let Zelda outside and not worry that a potty break
will mean she'll be gone for 2 days or, worse yet, not ever
come home...like her mom.

Zelda stopped chewing everything in sight once I started
applying Jerry's methods.  One time of "bad slipper!" and
she never chewed another one up :-D

I don't post here a lot because I don't ave any problems
needing solved. I do join in occasionally or post informative
lnks.  I just feel that my limited experience precludes me
from jumping in every thread <shrug> but I do read all of them.

If you want my phone number, e-mail me.  We would have to
set up a time because I'm on the webbie a lot and we only
have 1 phone line.

~misty

                   =============

=====================

<news:lmWo8AeR1HVP092yn@panix.com>...

=====================

My student Anthony summed it all up:

======================

From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST

I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.

I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".

Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).

The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point at the
mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".

That made him afraid to relieve himself in the house
or infront of me.

After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.

When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".

This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...

Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking.  That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.

Thank you, Jerry, for all you help.  You've been a
blessing to all of us.

AIMEE
===================

From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com):

I own a black an tan coonhound.  We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.

I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.

I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.

My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.

For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!

I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be  left home  alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.

Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better.  We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.

For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.

We simply eliminated the nagging and the acting out to get
NEGATIVE attention from one another since we weren't getting
the POSITIVE attention we wanted.

So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS
METHODS WORK.

It's up to you to accept them.  Yes, there's alot of blame that we
have to accept, but once we realize that we've caused these
problems to arise, we can strive to make things better.

AIMEE

=================

HOWEDY Group,

Here some SUCCESS STORIES ive had using JERRY'S MANUAL

1) My dogz, two bitches - Vicious, barking, aggressive, pulled
on leash, wanted to kill any dogs they saw, fought between
each other. TWO WEEKS using Jerry's manual, they were calm,
friends, my companions.

2) ADDED A BEAGLE PUPPY (male) to my "PACK", the
girls had -NO PROBLEMS- with him from the moment I
dropped him by their noses.

3) My FRIENDS dogs  2 MALES barking and jumping
at the fence all night 3 DAYS TRAINING WITH JERRY'S
MANUAL they were CALMED AND HAVEN'T BARKED ONCE!

Added a NEW MALE DOG (2 yrs old) AND
WELCOMED HIM WITH NO WUCKAS !

4) POODLE that ATE food from the KITCHEN BENCH -
lock him in a box? NO! USE JERRYS MANUAL! 4 DAYS
AND HES NEVER DONE IT SINCE!

5) ABUSED DOGS AT THE SHELTER I WORK AT -
HAD TO BE FED WITH A BUCKET ON  A STICK -
ONE WEEK ON JERRYS MANUAL, THE SUPERVISOR
TOLD ME TO PUT THEM IN THE PUBLIC KENNELS
FOR SALE !

Quite amazing to - I thought they were just dull coloured
dogs, but after I had removed the fear and anxiety their
hairs coloured up amazingly.

6) STAFFY FEMALE who would NOT DROP HER
BALL! She carried it around all day and night - 3
DAYS on jerrys MANUAL and she now DROPS
it when u ASK her to!

BWHWHAHAHAHAAHA !!!!

Nevyn

From: Eric
To: ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..

Jerry!

You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing.  Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!

He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes.  Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.

I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!

Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...

Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating a.s or pinching, or any of that nonsense.

I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone who beat MY a.s lol!

Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.

A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship".  He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)...  Too cool....

Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!

Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard

==========================

HOWER dog lovers call these posters LIARS
and FORGERIES by The Amazing Puppy
Wizard.

<"Terri"@cyberhighway

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog
into good behavior. Naive is believing that people that
hide behind fake names are more honest than people that
use their real names. Naive is thinking that dilettante
dog breeders and amateur "trainers" like Joey
(lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.) are the equal or better than
those that have studied and lived by their craft for
decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

====================

Hello People,

Robert Crim was a former Gang Of Thugs Member, and
hated me a much as the rest of our Thugs do. Robert was a
long time friend and prominent contributor to rpdb, till Jerry
came along and smartened him up. He learned the hard
way, and no longer posts to his former pals, because it is
just too painful knowing his pals would rather HURT and
KILL their dogs than to admit that JERRY is RIGHT.

----------------------------------------------

"I know that most men, including those at ease with
problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept
even the simplest and most obvious truth if it would
oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they
have delighted in explaining to colleagues, proudly
taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by
thread, into the fabric of their lives."
                               -Leo Tolstoy-

Is it any wonder that the following sig file has generated
more complaints to my personal email than any other
controversial post I have made to date, bar none?:

                               CAVEAT
If you have to do things to your dog to train him that you
would rather not have to do, then you shouldn't be doing
them. If you have a dog trainer who tells you to jerk your
dog around, choke him, pinch his ears, or twist his toes,
shock, shake, slap, scold, hit, chin cuff, scruff shake or
punish your dog in any manner, that corrections
are appropriate, that the dog won't think of you as the
punisher, or that corrections are not harmful, or if they
can't train your dog to do what you want, look for a
trainer that knows HOWE.

Thank you,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092

Nature, to be mastered, must be obeyed.
          -Francis Bacon-

There are terrible people who, instead of solving a
problem, bungle it and make it more difficult for all who
come after. Who ever can't hit the nail on the head
should, please, not hit at all.
         -Nietzsche-

The abilities to think, rationalize and solve
problems are learned qualities.

The Wits' End Dog Training Method challenges the learning
centers in the dogs brain. These centers, once challenged,
develop and continue to grow to make him smarter.

The Wits' End Dog Training method capitalizes on
praising split seconds of canine thought, strategy, and
timing, not mindless hours of forced repetition, constant
corrections, and scolding.

                      -Jerry Howe-

              The Puppy Wizard. <}TPW ; ~  )   >

    ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
        ,-._,-,
        V)"(V
        (_o_)  Have a great day!
         /  V)
        (l l l)        Your Puppy Wizzzard. <}YPW ; ~  }    >
       oo-oo