I couldn't tell you what is going on but if the vomiting continues you need
to get her into a vet this weekend.
Celeste
> my 12 month old mixed breed recently started urinating while laying
> down. The vet suspected incontinence, but of course we are looking at
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thank you.
> my 12 month old mixed breed recently started urinating while laying
> down. The vet suspected incontinence, but of course we are looking at
> other possibilities. The urine culture just came back negative for
> bacteria but with a slightly elevated protein.
..............do you mean urinalysis? The urine wasn't actually cultured
was it?
........apparently protein can be elevated temporarily from a fever so don't
know if it's significant or not:
http://courses.vetmed.wsu.edu/vm552/urogenital/protein.htm
This site says that protein in the urine can only be evaluated in light of
the specific gravity. Do you know what the specific gravity of the urine
was?
http://www.ranvet.com.au/urine_analysis.htm
To accurately interpret the significance of protein in the urine, the urine
specific gravity must be known. Simply because a small amount of protein may
read as negative in urine with a specific gravity of 1.010 but positive in
urine concentrated to 1.045.
A small amount of protein in the urine is normal, provided that the specific
gravity is in the normal range for the state of the dog being tested,
however any amount of protein in the urine at a specific gravity of less
than 1.030 may be abnormal.
She also had a low
> grade fever when I took her in earlier this week. She has just started
> vomiting bile (yellow to brown in color, sometimes frothy) - twice so
> far today, once yesterday. So I am concerned something else is going
> on.
...........was bloodwork also run? If not it should be as any kidney
problem can only be diagnosed with both bloodwork and urinalysis. I'd rerun
the urinalysis to see if the protein problem was transient. This is sort of
a cruicial point.
.....If there's still protein in the urine and dog is still vomiting I'd
wonder about something like Leptospirosis:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1556&articleid=454
......The dog is pretty young to be having kidney problems.
.......OTOH the vomiting and leaking may not be related. Hard to tell at
this point.
>I take her back in Tuesday of next week
.......if you're going to run bloodwork make sure dog has fasted for 12
hours.
buglady
take out the dog before replying
Lynne - 16 Sep 2006 15:31 GMT
Thank you for your post. Yes, her urine was cultured (collected via
cystocentesis). I wanted to rule out UTI before treating her for
incontinence. Specific gravity was normal on the urinalysis, protein
was slightly elevated, and there was no growth on culture after 3 days.
She will be having blood work as well as xrays (to look for stones) on
Tuesday. Perhaps the vomiting is unrelated. She hasn't vomited since
yesterday, thank goodness. And when she did it was strictly bile,
which I found unsettling. I will make sure my vet explores every
possibility. Thanks again!
> > my 12 month old mixed breed recently started urinating while laying
> > down. The vet suspected incontinence, but of course we are looking at
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> buglady
> take out the dog before replying
Lynne - 17 Sep 2006 18:35 GMT
as it turns out, it is my 3 year old cat who is vomiting bile. I'm
relieved on one hand, and of course concerned on the other (for my
cat). Looks like the pup is probably "just" incontinent, and that is a
good thing.
Thanks!
> Thank you for your post. Yes, her urine was cultured (collected via
> cystocentesis). I wanted to rule out UTI before treating her for
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
> > buglady
> > take out the dog before replying
buglady - 18 Sep 2006 01:56 GMT
> as it turns out, it is my 3 year old cat who is vomiting bile. I'm
> relieved on one hand, and of course concerned on the other (for my
> cat). Looks like the pup is probably "just" incontinent, and that is a
> good thing.
......huh! Guess those two symptoms were *very* unrelated! Maybe chuck
some extra taurine at your kitty and see if that helps. Cats have a need
for taurine because they use it to conjugate bile salts (unlike dogs).
buglady
take out the dog before replying
diddy - 18 Sep 2006 02:02 GMT
in thread news:N8mPg.8871$v%4.1158@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
"buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> whittled the following words:
> ......huh! Guess those two symptoms were *very* unrelated! Maybe chuck
> some extra taurine at your kitty and see if that helps. Cats have a need
> for taurine because they use it to conjugate bile salts (unlike dogs).
>
> buglady
> take out the dog before replying
It's been discovered that Dogs ALSO need taurine. Just not as much as cats.
Lamb is a poor dietary source, because it lacks taurine.
Lynne - 18 Sep 2006 02:22 GMT
> It's been discovered that Dogs ALSO need taurine. Just not as much as cats.
> Lamb is a poor dietary source, because it lacks taurine.
I'm going to have to check the ingredients of my dog's Nutro Lamb and
Rice kibble now. ACK.
buglady - 18 Sep 2006 14:03 GMT
> > It's been discovered that Dogs ALSO need taurine. Just not as much as cats.
> > Lamb is a poor dietary source, because it lacks taurine.
........Dogs can make their own taurine if they have the raw material
available. In cats it's essential, in dogs they're now calling it
conditionally essential.
......????? As far as I know all meat has taurine. It's plants that are a
poor source of taurine.
http://www.supplementnews.org/taurine/
Taurine is abundant in nearly all mammalian protein. Higher sources of this
amino acid include egg, fish, meat, and milk products. [2] Vegetable
proteins contain trace amounts of taurine.
.........from what I read about this issue of lamb meal and taurine,
apparently there's a deficiency of sulfur bearing amino acids available to
the dog due (maybe) to poor digestibility, which means the dogs can't
readily synthesize their own on the studied lamb diet. I didn't read the
whole article and it's really impossible to say at this point as even the
authors of the article come to no firm conclusions. But it definitely isn't
because lamb has less taurine that other meats. I think this is an issue
that is not too black and white at the moment and the variability of reasons
that one food is more or less digestible than others is huge. I think it's
a huge mistake to take a commercial diet with a certain kind of protein and
make pronouncements about all foods containing that protein. If they really
want to know how lamb affects taurine synthesis on dogs they should be
looking at comparisons between raw lamb, cooked lamb, a lamb diet without
cereal, a lamb diet with cereals, etc.
An abstract to the study:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1439-0396.2003.00446.x
.....In any case issues such as this are a good argument for rotating
protein sources and/or adding things to kibble - like sardines, eggs,
yogurt, to make sure they're getting all they need.
> I'm going to have to check the ingredients of my dog's Nutro Lamb and
> Rice kibble now. ACK.
.....Nutro, like some other companies, has been adding taurine since 2001:
http://www.nutroproducts.com/press100201.asp
buglady
take out the dog before replying
Lynne - 18 Sep 2006 02:20 GMT
> ......huh! Guess those two symptoms were *very* unrelated! Maybe chuck
> some extra taurine at your kitty and see if that helps. Cats have a need
> for taurine because they use it to conjugate bile salts (unlike dogs).
>
> buglady
Ha, yeah - I feel stupid. I don't know why I assumed it was my dog.
Probably because of the sheer volume of bile I was finding around the
house. (My pets have run of the house when I'm gone.)
My kitty thanks you for your advice, as he just got a little milk
formulated especially for cats, and with taurine added. He LOVED it.
Hopefully this is not a serious problem, but of course I will be having
him checked out by our vet.