Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / November 2006

As long as we're talking, would an MRI do the trick?

___________________
A dog's life is too short; their only fault really.

Sandy writes:

So what is the point in the group's existence?

BTW we aren't all anonymous.

HOWEDY dr. sandy,

That'd be his follow up appointment pursuant to his kat's
unnecessary inapupriate second attempt at risky surgical
sexual mutilation for non medical puporses <{): ~ ( > :

"Our local vet told us to get her spayed as soon as possible,
which we did.  After the surgery the vet called to say, "The
strangest thing happened," when they opened her up they
discovered she had already been spayed."

Then the discussion was intentionally derailed by
these obsfucationists and drifted off the topic of
MALPRACTICE and into the obscure SUBTERFUGE
discussin the difficulty of observing the original
surgical scar Vs EXXXPLORATORY surgery.

HOWEver, you FAILED to consider the OPTION of
JUST WAITIN THIRTY DAYS for the kat to EITHER
come into heat OR NOT, doctor sandy <{}: ~ ( >

And THEN you WONder HOWE COME The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard calls some veterinary professionals
and their shills liars cowards animal murderin frauds, medical
malpracticioners, if you prefer, doctor sandy <{) : ~ )  >

THAT'S what's got The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard bangin HIS head, doctor sandy <{): ~ ( >

INDEEDY:

"And after she told me that yesterday she had another cat with
the same issue (and reading all your responses) I felt much less
like it was "medical malpractice," than a problem with the visible
indication of spaying in general."

Seems the propensity of REPEATING the SAME MALPRACTICE
normalizes it to ACCEPTABLE STANDARDS and PROCEDURES,
eh, doctor sandy?

As do many of the veterinary malpracticioners who
formerly posted here abHOWETS on accHOWENT
certain undesireable elements EMBARRASSIN other
certain endemic miscreants and malpracticioners <{) : ~ ( >

INDEED?

frustrate
Pronunciation: 'fr&s-"trAt
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): frus·trat·ed; frus·trat·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin frustratus, past participle
of frustrare to deceive, frustrate, from frustra in error, in vain

1 a : to balk or defeat in an endeavor
  b : to induce feelings of discouragement in

2 a (1) : to make ineffectual : bring to nothing

(2) : IMPEDE, OBSTRUCT

 b : to make invalid or of no effect

synonyms FRUSTRATE, THWART, FOIL, BAFFLE, BALK mean
to check or defeat another's plan or block achievement of a goal.

FRUSTRATE implies making vain or ineffectual all efforts however
vigorous
or persistent <frustrated attempts at government reform>. THWART
suggests
frustration or checking by crossing or opposing <the army thwarted his
attempt
at a coup>.

FOIL implies checking or defeating so as to discourage further
effort <foiled by her parents, he stopped trying to see her>.

BAFFLE implies frustration by confusing or puzzling <baffled by
the maze of rules and regulations>.

BALK suggests the interposing of obstacles or hindrances <officials
felt that legal restrictions had balked their efforts to control
crime>.

               -----------------

OR a seven year old child, eh doctor?

You mean, PRIVATELY, don't you, doctor sandy <{}: ~ (  >

You mean a TRUSTIN, CONfidential relationship wherebye you
can ADVISE your CASH CUSTOMERS to PAY for unnecessary
inapupraite, even BOTCHED, risky surgical procedures.

YOU DIDN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION.

Ever hear of a SECOND OPINION, doctor?

We was talkin abHOWET MEDICAL MALPRACTICE.

You got the FACTS. You got ANY OPINION, doctor?

Bein HONEST will frustrate the original poster's CONFIDENCE
in his veterinary malpracticioner, won't it, doctor sandy:

"All Professions Are A Conspiracy Against The Layman"

INDEED?

Wouild you PREFER this discussion continue in
front a judge and jury, doctor sandy, or would
the board of veterinary EXXXAMINERS and the
consumer protection agencies and FDA / AVMA
be the apupriate venues for pursuing malpractice
complaints potentially affecting the majority of
veterinary CUSTOMERS, doctor sandy?

You mean The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training
Method Manual Forums <{); ~ ) >

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard has
combined the groups on accHOWENT of even THIS problem
has it's roots in behavior, not medecine, doctor sandy <{) : ~ (  >

Let's ask doctor sandy if EXXXPLORATORY SURGERY
to determine if a kat is SPAYED is in ANY WAY justifiable
Vs WAITING WON MONTH to SEE if she comes into heat?

IS IT MALPRACTICE: YES or NO, doctor sandy?

Is demaning 1/2 PAYMENT for UNNECESSARY
INAPUPRIATE RISY SURGICAL MUTILATION
ETHICKAL VETERINARY PRACTICE, doctor?:

YES or NO, doctor sandy?

Well THANK YOU for BEIN HONEST, doctor sandy <{): ~ ( >

INDEED. IN FACT, you WON'T REPLY to The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy
And Horsey Wizard on accHOWENT of it'd be PROFESSIONAL
SUICIDE, wouldn't it, doctor sandy <{} : ~ ( >

INDEEDY. PERFECT for a SCAM.

You CANNOT defend this argument, doctor sandy.

To do so will IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT YOU.

And THAT'S HOWE COME THESE ARE The Sincerely
                  Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
                            A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
                               G-R-A-N-D
        Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
                                  FREE
      WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training
                   Method Manual Forums <{); ~ ) >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
                     A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
                      G-R-A-N-D
   Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard  <{) ; ~ ) >

I actually don't

.......Sandy, this isn't meant as a flame either because, personally, I
really appreciate the vets who take the time to respond,  but not all vets
are interested in a working relationship with their clients.  Some want you
to do what they say, no questions asked.  Some do not seem to have time for
questions.  In a perfect world all vets would feel as you do.  And on the
client side, many people have white-coat syndrome - they're afraid that
asking questions is challenging their vet in some way or that the problem is
beyond their scope of understanding.  A lot of those people come here to
talk it out first and get practice at asking questions and thinking a
problem through.

anonymous

......well, anyone can play a doctor on the internet!  :-)  In reality, no
one knows exactly WHO the person is that is answering a question.  For all I
know you could be borrowing a vet's name who never goes near the Internet.
(I don't really think this, but stranger things have happened in
cyberspace.)  I don't see what anyone has gained by knowing someone's name.
It still doesn't tell you anything about them other than what they say.

......and a lot of people are seeking knowledge, not definitive answers.
AFAIC, the primary purpose of this group is to educate.  No one should take
anyone's word for anything with no questions asked.  I happen to think that
this includes their vet.  But that's just my POV.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

Doctor, I understand how you feel, but you could accomplish so much by
just encouraging folks to ask their vet; encouraging folks to develop a
working relationship with their vet! Let people know it is okay to find
a new vet, if their current vet doesn't want to work as a team.

It might come as a surprise to you, as it did to me, but Buglady is
surely correct about some vets not wanting a working relationship. There
is good and bad everywhere. I wish you would consider posting here more
often. All sensible subscribers deeply appreciate the vets who make
their knowledge available here. I can't say the frustration will ever
end, but that frustration should serve as an indicator that your message
is so important: "Ask your vet!"

As you know, the public is generally ignorant, dangerously stupid, and
often cruel, when it comes to animal care. This ignorance ranges from
proper feeding to relations with their vet. So, I can't over emphasize
how important your comments and guidance would be here.

As for "anonymous people of the internet," there are a lot of folks I
know only by their username. I have no need to know their real name. All
I need to know is "can I trust their comments"? I never do--until my
research proves them correct. For any given newsgroup, there are a few
reliable folks; learning who they are takes some time and effort.

I hope you drop in here as often as you are able.

Gratefully,
Michael
_________________________
When I count my blessings, I count my dog twice.

YOU'RE FULL OF CRAP you doGdameneD COWARD.

Subject:   Traumatized Sheltie - long, but *please* help

1 From:  Sandra - view profile
Date:  Mon, Jan 18 1999 12:00 am
Email:   "Sandra" <sandrai...@earthlink.no-spam.thanks.net>

My now 8 month old Sheltie is having new behavioral problems that I am
not
sure how to handle.  Ziggy has an Alpha personality, but I have always
worked very hard to teach him that I am top dog.  He has been wonderful
and
easy to train, eager to please and previously very easy going in all
situations.

His testicles never descended and he had a very rough neutering
procedure at 6 months of age.  Subsequently, he spent 3 weeks in the
hospital (multiple admissions) due to complications.

He developed Pancreatitis at one point (likely due to surgical trauma)
and after so many weeks in the hospital, I decided to treat him at home
so he could be with his family.  I administered IV's and injections 3
times
a day.  At first he was very compliant, but as he developed scar tissue
and the needles became more painful, he was less tolerant.

He has finally recovered (we hope) but has definitely changed.  I think
he
has been traumatized and is now afraid of me in some situations.  He is
also
now much more sensitive to verbal discipline.  Yesterday I started to
trim
his nails and he was very, very scared.  Shaking and whining, he bit me

very, very hard (broke the skin, lotso bleeding).

I reprimanded him (verbally w/"no bite" - a command he knows) and
isolated him briefly.  I have never seen him like this - I have been
trimming his nails since we adopted him at 2 months of age with no
problems.

I do know that at one point during his multiple hospital stays they
trimmed his nails.  One had been trimmed way too short and looked
like they had hit the vein - something I have so far never done.

Anyway, after all that, I am seeing quite a few other changes with
Ziggy
that concern me (never climbs in my lab like he used to, not as
affectionate
overall, nipping during play and sometimes slightly aggressively
biting).

I am trying to handle him more in non-threatening ways - just
affectionate
all over petting, playing with his feet and mouth while firmly
disciplining
him when he uses teeth.  What else can I do?  All suggestions will be
most welcome.  I am very committed to my pup and want to help him get
over this trauma.

Thanks, Sandra  - please remove the "no-spam.thanks" to reply via email

                __________________________

Here's a other EXXXPOSED DISCREDITED FRAUD, doctor sandy.

                Punishment ALWAYS Deranges Behavior.
        "NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
                               EXCEPT
                     To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM NO! into ITS face
for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the Department of ANAL-ytic Behavior at UofWI, pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

    And how do we know this aspect of his
    advice is right?

    Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
    His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

    (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
    few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
    ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

    --Marshall

      Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
       Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
                    http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer
       "Life is just too serious to be taken entirely seriousyl!"

                   ----------------------------------------

Subject changed: JUMPING / MOUTHING On PEOPLE (Ninnyboy)
26 From:  Marshall Dermer -
Date:  Tues, Aug 14 2001 8:15 pm
Email:   der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)

In article <2e501ccd.0108141341.7f18d...@posting.google.com>
mattburns...@yahoo.com (Matthew Burnside) writes:

Dear Matt:

Many have offered Jerry constructive advice but Jerry has failed
to profit from it.

My sincere advice is to filter out Jerry's posts.

--Marshall

PS: I have put "Ninnyboy" in the header for many of us filter
   posts with this term. The term indicates that the post
   is about Jerry.

I have read rpdb for about five years. Consequently, I urge
newbies to attend to the civil and rational posts of the rpdb
regulars from whom I have learned much. They include:
Ann (,Twzl, Sligo & Roy), Amy Dahl, Diane Blackman,
jdoee, Janet Boss, Susan Fraser, Avrama Gingold, Nancy
Holmes, Lynn Kosmakos, Bob Maida, MaryBeth, Ruth
Mays, Cindy Tittle Moore, Robin Nuttall, Denna Pace,
John Richardson, Sarah Sionnach, Ludwig Smith, Jane
Webb, and Terri Willis.

        *(EVERY WON of them got VERY LONG POSTED  CASE}
         HISTORIES of INCURABLE MENTAL ILLNESS an HURTIN
         INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN INNOCENT DEFENSELESS
         DUMB CRITTERS an LYIN abHOWET IT.)

    Marshall Lev Dermer/Associate Professor/Behavior Analysis
    Specialty/ Department of Psychology/University of
    Wisconsin--Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201

             der...@uwm.edu   http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

  "If I am not for myself, who will be for me. But if I am only for
              myself, what am I?" _The Talmud_

              YOU'RE FRAUDS, drs p. and dermer!

             Either DEFEND your LIES, ABUSE And
             Degrees or get the heel HOWETA THIS
                             BUSINESS.

6 From:  Marshall Dermer
Date:  Tues, Jan 19 1999 12:00 am
Email:   der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)
Groups:   rec.pets.dogs.behavior

In article <7803vv$e7...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net> "Sandra"
<sandrai...@earthlink.no-spam.thanks.net> writes:

I would verbally correct Ziggy when he bites or otherwise behaves
inappropriately. When you offer a correction make special efforts to
use a
special tone of voice and facial expression so that he "associates"
corrections only with these stimulus conditions and not the way you
usually
look/behave.

Otherwise I would make special efforts to reinforce his approach and
other
affiliative behaviors. One possibility is for you to feed Ziggy from
your
hand. Food is a reinforcer and he would have to approach/affiliate with
you
to access this reinforcer.  Petting, of course, is great too. You might
want
to read my paper on love (creating-love-dermer) that is available at
the
BehaviorAnalysis archive (see below). As you will see, behaviorism is
applicable to many kinds of behaviors and organisms.

Best wishes and keep us posted!

--Marshall

                             --------------------------

From: der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) -
Date: 1998/08/28
Subject: Re: Puppy growls and snaps

In article <6s6ea0$8c...@uwm.edu> der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall
Dermer) writes: In article <35E60819.65178...@pilot.msu.edu>

"Oops!  I would start by only holing her mouth
shut for say 5 sec.

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

P.S.  Contacting Dr. P:

Please note that due to the large number of
requests I receive, I can no longer give free,
personal advice on problems related to dog
training and behavior.

In order for me to give such advice we would
have to "talk" about the problem at length.

That is, I would need detailed information about
the dog, it's environment and routine, the problem,
and the situation in which the problem occurs.

Thus, this type of consultation takes time which
I cannot afford to give away for free.

If you wish such advice, please see the information
I have provided about my K9 Behavioral Consulting
practice. Another alternative to obtaining personal
advice is to participate in e-mail, chat room, &
newsgroup discussions.

P.P.S. BWEEEEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

4/28/98
             Welcome to BehaviorAnalysis at alpha1.csd.uwm.edu

BehaviorAnalysis is an archive on alpha1, a computer at the University
of
Wisconsin--Milwaukee, for exchanging material concerned with behavior
analysis. The archive can be reached via:
http://www.uwm.edu/Dept/Psychology/

     The basic directory structure of BehaviorAnalysis is as follows:

                  |-clinical-medicine----------------
                  |-community-corrections------------
                  |-conceptual-analysis--------------
                  |-developmental--------------------
                  |-disability-autism----------------
                  |-educational----------------------
                  |-ethical-legal-social-------------
                  |-experimental-analysis------------
                  |-graduate-program-descriptions----
BehaviorAnalysis- |-performance----------------------
                  |-pharmacology-toxicology----------
                  |-quantitative-analyses------------
                  |
                  |-resources-------------------------
                  |
                  |

                  |

                  |

                  |

                  |

                  |
                  |                                  |educational
                  |-software-------------------------|research
                  |
                  |-verbal---------------------------

Contents:

 conceputal-analysis:
 papers-moore>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>series of manuscripts

 developmental:
 creating-love-dermer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>manuscript

 disability-autisim:
 behavioral-intervention-for-young-children-with-autism>>>manual
 controlled-evaluations-assisted-communication-green >>ref. list
 facilitated-communication-claims-evidence-green_shane >> manuscript

 educational:
 SulzerMayerDermerFlashCards.zip>>>cards for chapters 1-20
 conditioning-learning-lab-moore>>>laboratory materials
 conditioning-learning-lecture-moore> lecture materials
 insider-guide-dermer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>advice for graduate students
 experimental-manual1-brandon>>>>>>manual
 experimental-manual2-brandon>>>>>>manual
 eab-tech-terms-dermer>>>>>>>>>>>>>technical terms for EAB
 frank-advice-dermer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>advice for professors offering
advice
 learning-theory-moore>>>>>>>>>>>>>course materials
 mentalism-berscheid-dermer>>>>>>>>excellent example of mentalism
 operant-conditioning-unit-high-school-marx>as labeled
 people-game-bailey>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>demonstrations of operant
conditioning
 politics-instructor-evaluation>>>>damron
 social-behavior-dermer>>>>>>>>>>>>syllabus for laboratory course
 validity-of-student-ratings-scriven>>>>>>portion of an article

 graduate-program-descriptions:
 auburn-university-newland
 ohio-state-heward
 southern-illinois-university-rp
 temple-university-hantula
 university-florida-gainesville-branch
 university-of-nevada-reno-carr
 university-north-texas-burkett
 university-wisconsin-milwaukee-dermer

 quantitative-analyses:
 edited-annual-quantitative-analyses-of-behavior-commons>>>>as
entitled

 resources:
 BhaviorCo-Online-Education-Consultants-feeny>>>>>website
 animal-training-hatch>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>listserver
 association-for-behavior-analysis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>addresses
 behavior-analysis-listserver-plaud>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as named (heavy
traffic)
 behavior-analysis-society-of-illinois-downie>>>>>officers & annual
meeting
 behavior-analysis-www-tompkins>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>home page on www at
usf
 bf-skinner-foundation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as named
 div-25-listserver-newland>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>APA-Divsion 25
listserver
 ecopsychology-listserver-cautilli>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as named
 electronic-journal-of-behavior-analysis-plaud>>>>as named
 fluency-listserver-kubina>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>precision teaching
 fluency-training-discusion-feeny>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>precision teaching
 for-consumers-practitioners-starin>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>web site
 interpsych-goldberg>>>>>>list of psych related Internet services
 jeab-jaba-indices-inglis>>>>online search of jeab or jaba articles
 teaching-behavior-analysis>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>web site
 tennessee-association-for-behavior-analysis-tonis>address
 www.behavior.org-verplanck>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>web site
 software:
       research:

          Abby-datarecording-windows-health_sciences
          behavior-observation-newton-martin
          discrete-trials-task-analyais-klein
          DSD1-datasheet-design-windows
          DSD1.ZIP
          macintosh-activity-analysis-watts
          mood-charting-windows-whitver
          vi-generator-perone
          VBA-datasheet-design-windows-winston
          VBA.ZIP

To transfer information to the site, e-mail the information to:

                        der...@uwm.edu
                              or
                   BehaviorAnaly...@uwm.edu

along with a suggestion as to which directory might be most
appropriate.

As new material is posted, it will be indexed.

Comments, of course, may also be sent to the the addresses above.

Thanks!

Marshall Dermer
Archivist

                 ----------------------------------------

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry,  I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University.  I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques.  Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

   "We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
   Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
   God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
   Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?

Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.

I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

                     ------------

    And THAT'S HOWE COME THESE ARE The Sincerely
                  Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
                            A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
                               G-R-A-N-D
        Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
                                  FREE
      WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training
                   Method Manual Forums <{); ~ ) >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
                     A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
                      G-R-A-N-D
   Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard  <{) ; ~ ) >