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The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply_Amazing_Grand_Puppy_Wizard_@HotMail.Com - 18 Oct 2006 21:06 GMT

HOWEDY An WELCOME Newbies an AOL HEELers,

HOWEDY Sandy in OK,

WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual Forums <{); ~ ) >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

I ain't been IGNORIN you, just been enjoyin watchin you givin
the lessons here abHOWETS for a pleasant change up <{) : ~ ) >

"I admit I am a bit of a "training junkie" I read everything
I can get my hands on to help me understand how best to
connect and communicate with dogs."

TILL NHOWE. Don't you think it's abHOWET time you
start talkin OBEDIENCE TRAININ Vs PERSONALITIES???:

"I'd actually tried coming here before, but quite honestly,
the Puppy Wizard posts make my eyes and brain glaze over.
Can't make heads or tails of them and they are very long.
(I'm guessing that's the intent). Sandy in OK

You WILL TALK BUSINESS with The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard otherWIZE HE'LL IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE an DISCREDIT
you by QUOTIN YOUR OWN WORDS <{) : ~ ) >

Re: AOL vs Usenet persona

"Sandy in OK" <celeaussie@aol.com> wrote in message

news:1161190662.836641.326740@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> shelly wrote:
>> Why? Why did you feel the need to come to another
>> group just to "relate your own experience" to us?

shelly is a pathetic miserable stinkin obsessive
compulsive lyin animal abusin punk thug coward an
active acute chronic long term incurable mental
case like handsome happy jack morrison aka joey
finnochiarrio aka DOGMAN an janet an malinda, suja,
matty, flick, elegy, lyin frosty dahl, lyin "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn and the rest of these pathetic
miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin mental cases.

PLEASE DO NOT get The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard WRONG or be foolish enough to MISTAKE HIS KINDNESS
for weakness, Sandy in OK... otherWIZE you'll end up lookin
like professor "SCRUFF SHAKE an SCREAM 'NO!' into ITS face
for 5 seconds an lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer of the ANAL-ytic behaviorISM department at UofWI:

"As a behaviorist, I don't believe that there is "free will"
or "choice" which determines behavior. From my philosophical
standpoint all behavior is forced or determined.

For any training procedure we should ask:

1) effectiveness--does it work?

2) efficiency--does it work quickly and with minimal
resources?

3) relationship--does it strengthen or weaken the extent
our pet/friends will bond with us? [That's why we try to
almost always use positive reinforcement rather than punishement.]

Jerry, the Merchant of the Magic Box, always considers 3)
whereas we sceptics always consider 1) and 2). ;-)
--Marshall

=============

> In some cases the force is quite clear as when presenting an
> eliciting stimulus which immediately elicits a response (such
> as shining a light into a mammal's eye and the pupil contracts)
> and in other cases the force is quite obscure (as when your dog
> gets up off the floor, jumps on the couch, and settles at your
> side).

> In the method I posted for training a retrieve, it is true
> that I opened my dog's mouth and I understand why compared
> to other methods,

***(HOWER good professor means 'HOWE COME' <{}: ~ ) >)

> like the one that accompanied my post by Diane Blackman,

***(professor SCRUFF SHAKE an SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face for
five seconds an lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation
dermer means diane blankman aka Master Of Deception blankman
who deposed BY DEFAULT professor SCRUFF SHAKE as HOWER foremost
obsfucationist when he got BAGGED FOR LYIN) <{): ~ ( >

> people could describe what I did as using force.

Naaaah?

> But again, from my standpoint, all behavior is forced;
> from my standpoint volition is an illusion. As Cindy,
> cogently noted above, "force" is a difficult concept
> to address.

Well, we'll just FIX that, professor.

> My point here is that any such discussion involves
> deep philosophical and religious issues.

BWWWAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA!!!

PERHAPS this will EXXXPLAIN world wide terrorism
and child / animal abuse, civil unrest, rising
violent crime, the Holocost, etc., eh professors?

> For any training procedure we should ask:

> 1) effectiveness--does it work?

> 2) efficiency--does it work quickly and with minimal
> resources?

> 3) relationship--does it strengthen or weaken the extent
> our pet/friends will bond with us? [That's why we try to
> almost always use positive reinforcement rather than

punishement.]

> Jerry, the Merchant of the Magic Box, always considers 3)
> whereas we sceptics always consider 1) and 2). ;-)
> --Marshall

O.K. doc, grab a ringside seat and have some cotton candy
to enjoy, while watching the death-defying high wire act,
performed without a safety net...

Let's have a go at it, shall we? I'm going to explain a couple
of things to you that I'd kind of like you to keep in mind,
even though you probably won't understand what it is that I'm
saying. Otherwise, you'd have understood by now. Ferstaisch?
It would have been obvious to you, had you read my manual.

Your words, doc: "Jerry, the Merchant of the Magic Box,
always considers 3)"relationship--does it strengthen or
weaken the extent our pet/friends will bond with us?
[That's why we try to almost always use positive
reinforcement rather than punishement.]"

This con man is so smart, he's going to put himself out of
business by giving away free training information that will
obviate the need for his machine and cost him sales, in many
cases. Good competition is good for business, so why not
compete with my own interests? I'd have a hard time finding a
more worthy adversary.

Wouldn't you agree?

The motivation for such a poor business decision isn't
sheer stupidity, doc, it is indeed, number three.

As a simple uneducated professional dog trainer, doc, I'm very
aware of the urgent need to bring harmony to dog's and their
people's lives.

I realize the need for people to improve the quality
of their FAMILIES and their dogs' lives, through
learning proper handling and training techniques.

Dogs lives are at stake here, doc... As a professional
dog trainer, doc, I don't settle for second rate advice
for my dogs or my students. There is no excuse for
anything less than excellence in one's field, especially
my fields of expertise... Wouldn't you agree professor?

1) effectiveness--does it work?

The methods in my manual doc, are scientifically and
psychologically based. The techniques are precise,
and the results are repeatable consistently, on any dog,
even wolves.

The effects happen almost instantly, certainly within three or
four repetitions, if done correctly. Many other animals can be
handled the same way (my rats would come when called, and no,
I didn't use food bribes on them either), all you gotta do is
be bright enough, observant enough, and be accurate in your
timing, to use the tools properly. A five year old child could
do it, with a little help from mommy.

You'd have been able to learn a lot from reading my text, doc.
You would have learned by now (after wasting eight months),
that the Wits' End Dog Training Method has as much to do with
family, as it does with training dogs.

There is little difference between properly raising a child,
and properly raising a dog. The ideology taught in the manual
applies to your kids, your wife, and anybody important in your
life. The concepts of respect and consideration as taught in
my manual, will have significant inferences on the way we
raise our children, work, think, live, govern ourselves, and
will positively impact our society and eventually the entire
world.

The FREE Wits' End Method is not just a HOWE to manual,
it was written to make you THINK! Think about what you are
doing with your dogs, kids, mates, employers, employees,
co-workers, neighbors, government, and the entire world.

2) efficiency--does it work quickly and with minimal
resources?

Even better than that, doc. It' FREE! And no other method
works as quickly and effortlessly. HOWE COME I don't just sit
down, write a book and send it out to an editor, and put in
some old photos, and sell it and get fat?

For one thing, doc, I don't need to get fat. My machine will
make me fatter than you could ever conceive of. The
information in my manual is unsurpassed, and cannot wait for
me to polish it up and do it up so you can say it looks pretty
and reads like Louisa May Alcott wrote it. All the information
is in there, it's solid and vital, and timely...

3) relationship--does it strengthen or weaken the extent our
pet/friends will bond with us? [That's why
we try to almost always use positive
reinforcement rather than punishement.]

Number three, (of course?), needs no further explanation, doc,
cause you already agree that it is important. That's where you
are dead wrong, once again, doc. Just because you agree with
the point, does not mean you understand HOWE COME and HOWE
important it IS.

You still qualify "always use positive reinforcement," by
preceding it with "try to almost." That's because of your
limited appreciation and tremendous misunderstanding of what
is really happening. You are like a recalcitrant little child,
doc. That's HOWE COME I'm here, and you're there.

And that's HOWE COME you got to get the heel outta here, you
and your Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing Thug Cowards.

Here's what you fail to understand. The fundamentals of
properly handling and training a dog are not whether we can
make the dog stop jumping, or teach him to heel. The first
point that must be considered is the holistic concept, does
the dog want to work with us.

HOWE COME does he want to work?

He must want to work because he enjoys your company,
because of the quality of the bond you've formed,
because YOU asked him.

What is MOST IMPORTANT, is what we need to
accomplish in the big picture, not the micro aspects
of stopping the dog from peeing on the floor.

You people get so goal oriented, you focus on the pp on the
floor, instead of trying to address the true reason the pp is
there. When you do try to figure it out, you only go one level
up: too much water, didn't walk him in time, never thinking
about what may really be causing the problem. Or, you go one
level down: should have crated him, should have kept him
restricted, should have walked him every hour.

You're missing the boat.

Usually stress and anxiety, and negative attention getting
devices, are the cause. The reason they exist in the dog, is
primarily mishandling and miscommunication, and lack of
patience, anger, and frustration, and the negative methods of
communication you all endorse and use, even ever so slightly.
I've been hurt more from a harsh word from a lover, that from
any man or beast who has ever thumped me.

Sure, I get lots of people that ask me, "Jerry, HOWE COME
you won't just tell me HOWE to get my dog not to pee on the
floor?

My answer is inspired, and won't allow me to bastardize it to
make life simple for someone who will otherwise never learn
the difference between right and wrong in the handling and
management of their dogs.

This kind of people, good people just like yourself, doc,
will never develop their necessary and proper potential as
appropriate dog owners and trainers, until they are taught
the very basics of proper handling, to effect the macro of
their relationship with their dog. I'll be dealing with this
in the retrieve thread, so be there, or be square...

I could give tips all day long to help solve behavior
problems. That will put a finger in the dike, but other
problems will keep popping up in their place, because the dog
never quite learns, because he's dealing with freaking morons
like you, doc.

It seems that when you got to the point in my manual where I
criticized the universities and behaviorists for having failed
us, and paraphrased the following quote, is when I lost you.
Not surprising, doc. That's exactly HOWE COME it was there, to
separate the wheat from the chaff in this dog behavior news
group.

I wrote the entire manual specifically for this group, because
of the desperate need for decent dog training information that
was previously nonexistent here.

I've been around these guys patching up their wounded dogs all
my life, doc, and I'm sick of it. That's HOWE COME I'm here,
to facilitate some long overdue changes in the dog training
industry. Training the dogs here is secondary to solving the
problem of HOWE COME we have problem dogs.

That reason is almost exclusively: rotten training methods
used by incompetent trainers and dog abusing descartean
university trained behaviorists like professor SCRUFF
SHAKE;

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, professor of ANAL-ytic behaivorISM at UofWI.

That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.

You have been tested, doc. And you have failed miserably, doc,
as did most of the other regular posters here. It's time to do
or die. Dog's lives depend on it. You are either part of the
problem, or part of the solution. Your bloomers are showing,
doc... Here's the words you fear, doc, read 'em an' weep:

"I know that most men, including those at ease with problems
of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the
simplest and most obvious truth if it would oblige them to
admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in
explaining to colleagues, proudly taught to others, and which
they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their
lives."
Leo Tolstoy

Here's another quote, doc: "Dogs do in a way, wear their
hearts on their sleeves, so that only a scientist could
misunderstand their true feelings." Nick Dodman DVM, author
Dogs Behaving Badly. ***(dr. dodman has since been DISCREDITED
for his recommendations of shock collar CON-TRAINMENT systems.
Perhaps he was PAID OFF by the shock collar manufacturers like
the arseHOWELS in UofAlabama's shock collar "study".)

And next? BOBO The Harlequin! Revv up the tiny but spectacular
clown car, Bring on the clowns! It ain't over till the Fat Lady
sings, and she's up right after the clowns!

Here's the lowdown on our ''EXPERTS,'' the LIARS and
DOG ABUSERS of r.p.d.b:

> Psychoclown (terri willis) wrote:
> Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is
> something you twisted out of context, because you
> are full of bizarro manure.

LIAR. I'll just copy a direct quote or two or three or
four or five or six... HOWE many direct quotes would
you like???

Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and
says:

"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the
benefit of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses
not to read the article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF
YOU DON'T READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of
"twisting ears (INDEED, SHE PINCHES THEM WITH
SPIKES).

I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).

I would never advise anyone to slap a dog
(SHE'S A PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you
expect her to ADMIT THE TRUTH???).

I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever,
where slapping a dog is anything but destructive."

RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff
doesn't mean hit, it means slap. amy lyingfrosty dahl
continues:

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less
tractable dogs may require you to progress to striking
them more sharply.

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the
stick. Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to
the dummy.

Repeat, varying how hard you hit the dog,

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent
that resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their
efforts to escaping the ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead
of your thumb;

even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against
that

Say "fetch" while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear.

if the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the
shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and
the collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist!
Eventually, the dog will give in"

AND HERE'S THE REST OF THE ROUNDUP, the
posters our own respected lyingdoc doermer,
assholeciate professor of behavior at U of Wisc., who
RECENTLY endorsed the koehler method:

Diane Blackman,
Yes, diane... She's as confused and deceitful as they
come. She knits cover-ups for pronged choke collars
so she can train dogs illegally on akc showgrounds,
and so that people won't SEE the prongs and think
the less of her... She twists words better than you
can, BECAUSE SHE HASN'T GOT BAGGED FOR
LYING, LIKE lyingdoc dermer DID.

She's got a dog who's been a chronic puller for five
years, and she day boards her dogs because she can't
trust them at home alone.

Her links page has lots of lousy advice, but diane
won't edit the lousy ones that teach HURTING dogs,
because she says she doesn't know enough about
training to discern good from bad information...

Whaddaya thaink of that?

Janet Boss,
Jerks dogs around on pronged collars to make them
friendly. She's as incompetent a creature as G-D
could possibly create. I'll be throwing THAT in HIS
face when I get there... She has no business telling
people to kill their dogs because their only option is
to jerk the dog around and keep him confined for
the rest of his life.

See the thread ''interested in hearing'' and you'll see for
yourself HOWE you bums mishandle and kill dogs
because you don't have any IDEAS, and can't outwit a
puppydog...

Take a look at the thread "interested in hearing" where your
pal janet boss overlooks TWO SHOCK
CONTAINMENT DEVICES, and tells the people to jerk
and choke the dog on a pronged choke collar, and
lock the dog up at any time he can't be jerked and
choked....

The consensus of opinion of our "EXPERTS" here was
to KILL THE DOG TO BE FAIR.

Susan Fraser,
susan twists and pinches ears and toes and shocks
and chokes dogs on pronged choke collars. But she
doesn't hurt them.

Avrama Gingold,
Our Professora... She got her damned teeth knocked
down her throat when her dog finally figured out
HOWE to hurt her back, and make it look like an
accident. That's called allelomimetic behavior.
avrama had a habit of jerking him to make him heel
or come, but always made it look like the dog did it to
himself.

Dogs are smart. Don't take my word for it, that's in
the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual.

Lynn Kosmakos,
Our pathological liar? She jerks and chokes and
hangs dogs according to the koehler method. She
justifies force because there are so many dogs to
HELP and such little time to HELP them all, at the shelter
she kills dogs at.

lyinglynn writes:

> For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
> pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
> When he barks, use the line for a correction.

A CORRECTION? You're going to JERK and CHOKE
the dog out of being AFRAID... that's CORRECTION?

lyinlynn says: "I LOVE KOEHLER," and in the next
breath denies being a 'koehler trainer.' Is that because she
ALSO shocks dogs, and koehler never had a shock collar?

Pity that he was born too late to benefit from such a wondrous
teaching tool, ISN'T it???

BESIDES, WHAT'S SO WRONG being a koehelr
trainer, THAT lyinglynn AND CINDYMORON BOTH
DENY USING THE KOEHLER METHODS THEY USE and TEACH???

Or is it just that lying is in vogue???

Bob Maida,
What advice? "Don't let him do that?" Killfiles is all he
writes about. He can't talk dog training because he is
a violent dog trainer. If he opens his yap, I shove his
foot in it for him and hammer on top of his head till
he's craping toenails... He's no dog trainer.

He said he recommends cindymoron's Website to his
''students'' and they tell him HOWE much they've
benefited from it... cindymron's site has instructions
for sticking your fingers down puppies throats to
choke them out of mouthing, kneeing the dog in the chest,
shocking, throwing the dog down by his ears
and climbing on him like a wild animal, pinching and
twisting ears, choking, jerking, and sticking dog's heads
under water you've filled into a hole he's dug to break dogs
of digging.

I guess boob's student's only learned the jerking and
choking from him...

Your pal boob had been begging his ''teacher'' cap'n
fagotty to debate me here, and smarten me up. He
sent his little girl to write me a threatening letter
saying she'd sue me if I told the truth here...

Then, your pal boob suggested there would be a
motorcycle gang paying me a little visit... Do you ride,
lyindoc? I may be able to get you a good deal on some
dead bikers machines.

Cindy Tittle Moore,
A true sadist. She gets pleasure for dominating and
hurting dogs. Read her forced fetch page, that will
show you HOWE excited she gets just at the thought
of hurting dogs.

Did you see my STAY-OUT-OF-JAIL CHALLENGE to
cindymoron? Here's the deal... We get her to force
fetch train three dogs in front of a childs playground,
and I'll train three protection dogs in the same site,
and we'll see who the children are disturbed by, and
who the parents are going to call the cops on... And
then I'll show up as expert witness for the
prosecution, and we'll demonstrate her forced fetch
in front of a criminal judge and jury...

HOWE'S that for a FAIR TEST???

Denna Pace,
Says she sees a lot of value in koehler... She's got
PLENTY of problems with her own dogs running away
and being disobedient.

John Richardson,
He only hurts dogs to save them from the needle.
He's as abusive and immature as they come. He's a
clone of dogman. The dogs he can't hurt into being
friendly, he KILLS in the shelter he HELPS in. Unlike
yourself, he's too stupid to be evil. He's just doing
what koehler taught him.

Ludwig Smith,
Another koehler trainer. He's too cowardly to come out and
say what he believes. He throws around lots of non advice,
and then tells us we can get more help in koehler's books.
He's got a link to cindymoron's page on his sig file...

and Terri Willis.
The psycho clown. She wants to hurt dogs because
she is compensating for her inferiority complex. She
WANTS TO HURT DOGS.

HOWE does varying HOWE you are HURTING the dog
make it more INTERESTING?

You can't do something that's WRONG, right, NO
MATTER HOWE hard you try. Dogs DIE because of
inappropriate handling and training techniques.
There is NEVER any need to jerk and choke and
shock or pinch and twist dog's body parts or
beat dogs with sticks to MOTIVATE them.

Your pal, Jerry "The PHONY," Howe <{}: ~ ) >

--------------

Here's professor "SCRUFF SHAKE" dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

> My visual here is Little Cindy Lou Who saying "Why, Santa, Why?"

You might as well believe in Santa as much as your clicker trainin
on accHOWENTA IT DON'T WORK nodoGdameneD better than SANTA CLAWS or
he freakin Easter Bunny or Tooth Faerie <{): ~ ( >

> Anyhow

There ya go! Minus 10 pts. for SPELLIN errors... You meant 'anyHOWE'.

> - because things on public forums tend to drift
> from one location to another.

Yeah. Lucky thing they're INDELLIBLY ARCHIVED FOREVER, eh Sandy in
OK???

> As did Happy Jack Morrison, and he invited me to come?

We was talkin abHOWET janet teachin paulie to jerk an
choke his RESCUE dog Muttley on a pronged spiked pinch
choke collar an slam IT into the grHOWEND with his foot
on the leash. LIKE THIS:

paul e. schoen Wrote:

Muttley was still acting wild when I was instructed to join them,
and he really wanted to interact with the other dogs, but I had to
give him corrections every few seconds, and also just about kick
him, to keep him at my left side.

However, once the heeling was over, Muttley did a
pretty good sit, as well as a passable stay and come.

When we moved to the parking lot, we were first instructed
to do a sit-stay-come sequence, which I think Muttley did
quite well.

While the other dogs were doing their routines, Mutttley sat
(and even lay down) quietly at my side. I will confess that I
only tried the "down" position once or twice at home, and I
also often used it instead of "Off" when I wanted him to stop
jumping on me or elsewhere I didn't want him to be.

I thought I was told that the way to get the dog to go
down was to make him sit and then step on the leash.

That was awkward nd didn't seem to work.

I made him sit several times, and then tried (as I had been
told at one time) to pull the dog's front legs out to a down
position, which required me to kneel at his side. I was also
trying to pull his collar forward, and I must not have had
a solid grip on the leash.

Muttley seemed to lunge suddenly forward, which knocked
me off balance, and the attack commenced immediately.

I have already spent probably close to $1000 on this poor dog,
and I would certainly shell out a bit more if I could be reasonably
sure a different method might work.

Muttley is really a very sweet and loving dog, but he needs
more socialization with other dogs. However, it is very likely
that I will have him put down in a week.

Thanks,

Paul

-----------------

> I might stick around for a while,

That'd be greatly appreciated, Sandy in OK. You
DO appear to be a intelligent concerned dog lover
who wants to IMPROVE the state of the art of dog
trainin <{}; ~ ) >

THAT'S HOWE COME The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard has gone to you website an QUOTED your bio... and
ANAL-yzed it for your edification <{}: ~ ) >

> and when this dies down,

These pathetic miserable stinkin lyin animal murderin
mental cases are goin through their LAST EXXXTINCTION
BURST, Sandy in OK.

While The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard GREATLY APPRECIATES the heelp of SOME of you AOL
HEELers, ya'll not bein intricately familiar with janet's
very long usenet posted case history is a handicap <{): ~ ( >

> see if I like it at all.

Well, do you ENJOY watchin dog lovers jerk choke shock
bribe crate intimidate mutilate an murder innocent
defenseless dumb critters like HOWE paulie done under
janet's EXXXPER PERSONAL REAL LIFE IN PERSON INSTRUCTION?

LIKE THIS:

Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of sh.t you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=====================

> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

---------------

AND LIKE THIS:

From: Momi...@webtv.net (misty)
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:29:09 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Beth wrote:

> So, jerry's techniques didnt' work for Peach?

Never had a chance to try them on her... I was still
using the e-fence and chains to keep her in the yard.

The suggestions I received here to keep Peach home were:
build a fence... wasn't going to happen.. we plan on
putting a modular home here within the next few years...
put more fence at the top of the pen I used so both dogs
could play bitey face w/o tangling, and similar suggestions.

Jerry was the only one to mention border training... but he
was kook supreme ;-P So I ignored him... no killfiles with
webtv.. at that time Jerry had his own troll, somewhat like
Candace, so the group was not very conducive to learning anything.

At one point I even b*tched about Jerry.

By the time I tried out Jerry's manual Peach had already
ran away.

Not very good at the google groups search but you'll find my
first post at "runaway dog message 30" within that thread
is mention of the dogs taking off and being gone for 2 days.
I stopped posting for a bit... my middle boy was devastated
that his dog was gone... Zelda came home but not her mom.

The next few posts from me were ones about/to Jerry.

Then Jerry made the WETM accessible for webbes, I put it
in my e-mail (no storage otherwise on webby unless you put
stuff on a webpage) and read it, read it and read it.

Once I understood what the concept was, I implemented it
on Zelda. It worked and I now have a great housedog!

I only regret that my own distrust of Jerry caused me to
lose another wonderful dog. Peach was an absolute gem with
little kids. I and my boys still miss her. Sometimes I
still look to see if she came home when we get back from trips.

Maybe Peach would still have ran away... I don't know
and never will....

~misty

---------------

From: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:16:59 -0500
Subject: Re: Jerry, why non-physical praise?

Peach would be there sittin pretty had our pals not given
you a bum steer cause they're EMBARRASSED and AFRAID of
losing their careers and reputations....

Stick around, we're just startin to have FUN learning and
sharing...J;~)
---------------

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message news
16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do know she's
not here with us. I really can't blame anyone here for her
loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because of
how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the idea
that my using a shock collar could have any bearing on
Peach not wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my concern
became how to keep them from running off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled in the
anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world now <g>
A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely housetrained,
doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard, and doesn't bark all
the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

---------------

misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message

news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net.

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring. Two
dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not want to come
back in the yard and would run for days.

The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how to train
my dog. She is now border trained. A few minutes each day
reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.

She no longer runs out into the road, I can stop her from
chasing cats and she no longer cringes when we walk around
the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I hate the
e-fence and its collars. If you can't get a regular fence
then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog
in our yard again.

The price was too high:-( ~misty

--------------------------------

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:12208-3BB67479-427@storefull-234.iap.bryant.webtv.net.

Hi Cathy!

Yes I used The Wits End Method to train my girl, Zelda.
You can check the archives and see I'm a real person..

I post in misc.kids.breastfeeding, alt.cats rec.pets.cats.annecdotes
(not lately, my kitty died) rec.pets.dogs.behavior rec.pets.birds and
a ton of webtv firewalled ngs.

Zelda and her mom, Peach (RB) both loved to run the
neighborhood with my neighbors 2 male dogs. An e-fence
couldn't keep them home, chains pulled up and Peach could
jump/climb a 5 ft. fence.

I wrote in here for advice and felt like Jerry had jumped
down my throat. Upon re-reading his post to me..well..it
hit home hard that I was being abusive to my dog.
The thought of shocking my dog ever again makes me
want to puke.

Like I've said before... I might not like the way Jerry
treats some of the other posters but he gave me ( for _free_)
a way to teach myself and my dog.

I can let Zelda outside and not worry that a potty break
will mean she'll be gone for 2 days or, worse yet, not ever
come home...like her mom.

Zelda stopped chewing everything in sight once I started
applying Jerry's methods. One time of "bad slipper!" and
she never chewed another one up :-D

I don't post here a lot because I don't ave any problems
needing solved. I do join in occasionally or post informative
lnks. I just feel that my limited experience precludes me
from jumping in every thread <shrug> but I do read all of them.

If you want my phone number, e-mail me. We would have to
set up a time because I'm on the webbie a lot and we only
have 1 phone line.

~misty

===========

> I'd actually tried coming here before, but quite honestly,
> the Puppy Wizard posts make my eyes and brain glaze over.

INDEED. Sometimes folks GO PSYCHOTIC after just readin
The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual <{): ~ ( >

> Can't make heads or tails of them and they are very long.

That so, Sandy in OK? Seems if you bother to READ the TEXT
you'll UNDERSTAND HOWE COME those CONfHOWENDIN lenghty posts
IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE an DISCREDIT YOU an YOUR METHODS <{}: ~ ( >

> (I'm guessing that's the intent).

WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual Forums
And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research
Laboratory <{); ~ ) >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

> Sandy in OK

AND NHOWE YOU GET A DOSE OF MEDECINE:

> My name is Sandy, and I was fortunate to discover my
> first passion in life (besides the Beatles, horses and
> art) at the age of 20, in 1970,

By '70 The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard
had been professionally trainin workin dogs for six years
and was well on HIS way to developin The Sincerely Incredibly
Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy,
Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse
Training Method <{}: ~ ) >

> when I got my first Australian Shepherd. I discovered another
> passion - dog training -a few years later, in 1978, when I
> trained my first Companion Dog. Since then, I've gotten about
> 20 CDs, a dozen or so CDXs, four Utility titles and one ASCA
> OTCH. I'm an obedience judge, a rescuer and a shelter dog trainer.

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard GOT
ISSUES with so called RESCUE an SHELTER dog lovers <{): ~ ( >

> I've also had the pleasure of helping many people reach
> their own goals with their dogs as an instructor.

INDEED? You're probably very good at what you do. HOWEver,
WHAT YOU DO CAUSES the temperament and behavior problems
you're VERY GOOD a TRHOWEBLESHOOTIN, Sandy in OK, as you'll
SEE if you BOTHER to READ the lenghty DOCUMENTATION <{): ~ ) >

> Back in the 70s, I started with very traditional
> training techniques as most people did at that time.

You mean jerkin an chokin, Sandy in OK. Shock collars
was just comin into pupularity in '70 <{}: ~ ( >

> And yet, while we were successful, I wanted a way to do
> things "with" my dogs, not "to" them, and to share the
> experience more fully with them.

INDEEDY. SO you FHOWEND other methods usin BRIBERY
instead of jerkin an chokin <{): ~ ( >

> Several years ago, reading a remarkable book
> "Don't Shoot The Dog" by Karen Pryor

karen pryor is a FRAUD. She MURDERED her own DEAD
KAT on accHOWENTA she COULDN'T TRAIN IT not to sh.t
an piss in her stove top.

> and attending a seminar by Gary Wilkes,

gary wilkes SEVERLY IMPRESSED professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE an SCREAM NO! into ITS face for 5 seconds"
dermer with his DELAYED PUNISHMENT method of
clicker trainin:

From:        Marshall Dermer
Date:        Mon, Apr 10 2000 12:00 am
Email:         der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer)

In a previous message, I described how to set up a trip and alarm to
control
a dog's charging the mailbox and shredding letters. But I forgot to
describe the back-up punisher. I based my post on Gary Wilkes's
signaled-
punishment procedure.

Below, is an earlier description of Wilkes's signaled-punishement
procedure.
In his video, I believe, he used it to stop a dog from running to the
door
and jumping on guests.

***************

Gary Wilkes's _Doggie Repair Kit_

I had the good fortune to view Gary Wilkes's _Doggie Repair Kit_
video which is available at his site:

http://www.clickandtreat.com/

I had loaned out my copy of Karen Pryor's _Clicker Magic_ (an
excellent introduction to clicker training) to a student who has not
yet returned it. So, I used a search engine to find other clicker
videos I might show in my college course and discovered Wilkes's
_Doggie Repair Kit__.

The video describes a number of training procedures, but the one
that most interested me was what is called, in academic behavior
analytic circles, signaled (delayed) punishment. In this procedure
the undesirable behavior immediately produces a signal which is
followed up later (say 5 sec or so) with a punisher.

The signal that Wilkes often used was the loud alarm emitted by a
Radio Shack motion detector. (Of course, the alarm might itself be
punishing!) The delayed punisher was either a squirt of water in the
dog's face (this ain't going to work with a Lab) or a rolled-up towel
thrown at the dog.

Here is how you can put these components into action.

Consider, for example, a dog that jumps up on the couch. Place a
thin thread across the front, top of the couch which would be
moved if a dog were to jump up. One side of the thread may be
attached to the couch's side with a diaper pin or tape and the rest
crosses the couch. (Wilkes cleverly used diaper pins as ferrules in
some of his examples to keep the thread up.) At the far side of the
couch attach the thread to the motion detector and hide the
detector behind some pillows. But, make sure that the detector's
sound hole is not blocked. Now leave the room.

When your dog trips the thread and the detector moves (motion!) it
will set off its alarm sound which you follow up, a few seconds
later, with the squirt of water or the thrown towel.

In all of his examples, Wilkes not only punished undesirable
behavior but also reinforced (click and treated!) alternative
desirable behavior.

Note well, if you repeatedly use the Radio Shack alarm in this way,
it will come to function as a conditioned punisher if it already is not
an unconditioned punisher.

In summary, I strongly recommend the video.

--Marshall

PS: I don't work for Mr. Wilkes or even personally know Mr. Wilkes,
but he did send me the video _gratis_ for my course in behavior
analysis.

*********************************************************
Below is the diagram for the trip in the case of the dog
who charged the mailbox.

> | |
> | |
> . *
> Inside: trip . *
> thread----> . * <---Outside Door
> . *
> | |
> | |
> | |

********************************************************

Now, if the owner is home and knows when the mail is delivered only
the back-up punishers need to be delivered!

Having described the punishment procedure above, I prefer to use
positive reinforcement to control this behavior. I know that my dog
is a "gentle soul" and that the punishment would work, but I prefer
positive approaches.

Let us suppose that inserting mail in the box (rather than the
dogs barking down the street) evokes the dog's charging the
mailbox and removing the letters. Let us suppose that your
dog will sit (don't issue a "stay") on command.

With your dog in some room distant from the mailbox have someone
insert mail. When you & your dog hear this issue a "sit" and
when the dog sits for say (2 sec) provide a reward.

Now you will have to repeat the procedure, starting with the
insertion of the mail in the box. If the dog reliably sits
for two secs after the mail has been inserted, then increase
the interval to 3 sec. In this way, gradually increase the
time required sitting (actuallly not running to the box)
before you provide reinforcement.

Later, phase out the sit command. Indeed, if the procedure works you
may find that the sound of the mail being put into the box will
evoke the dog's sitting. You should also repeat this procedure in
different rooms. I think it may work if you can get your dog to do
something else for 5-7 sec, besides charging the mailbox, after the
mail has been inserted.

A few notes:

There is nothing special about sitting. Basically, the procedure
attempts to reinforce your dog for doing something other than
charging the mailbox at the sound of mail being placed in the box.
The procedure is called Differential Reinforcement of Other (DR0)
behavior.

Jerry's distraction procedure is basically the same procedure. He
replaces the "sit" command with novel sounds. That is, novel
sounds evoke some behavior other than charging the mailbox and this
other behavior is then reinforced with Jerry's favorite reinforcer:
praise.

The problem, of course, is that praise is not an effective
reinforcer for all dogs. Also, food may not universally work.
That is why in academic circles reinforcers are empirically
determined, that is, they are by definition, response contingent
events that increase the rate of similar behavior in the future.

--Marshall

Marshall Lev Dermer/ Department of Psychology/ University of
Wisconsin-Milwaukee/ Milwaukee, WI 53201/ der...@uwm.edu
http://www.uwm.edu/~dermer

THAT'S INSANE, dog lovers. professor SCRUFF SHAKE has
NOT been postin since his SWAN SONG Post THANKIN G-D
for The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits'End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method
Manual <{}: ~ ) >

"The procedure is called Differential Reinforcement of Other (DR0)
behavior.

Jerry's distraction procedure is basically the same procedure. He
replaces the "sit" command with novel sounds. That is, novel sounds
evoke some behavior other than charging the mailbox and this other
behavior is then reinforced with Jerry's favorite reinforcer:praise.

The problem, of course, is that praise is not an effective
reinforcer for all dogs. Also, food may not universally work.
That is why in academic circles reinforcers are empirically
determined, that is, they are by definition, response contingent
events that increase the rate of similar behavior in the future.

--Marshall

=============

professor SCURFF SHAKE is full of crap like yourself and the
rest of these pathetic dog murderin mental cases, Sandy in OK:

Distraction And Praise

Date: 2002-01-11 20:37:35 PST

"Paul B" <pand...@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message
news:5$--$$_-----$--__$@news.noc.cabal.int...

> Hello roo

> "roo" <r...@kanga.net> wrote in message
> news:a0epm0$qer$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Hiya Paul,

In this instance "bollocks" means "load of rubbish"
but you knew that,

> the manual has no dangerous suggestions at all, I'll leave
> it to others to go though this in detail. It would be a
> useful service if someone could. It would take me too long
> at the moment, (as my family kinda expect me to be
> sociable now and then at Christmas time). There are a
> number of posts from JH that have worried me too - the
>> most recent

What I said is correct, the manual has no dangerous
suggestions, your deviating and referring to recent posts
he has made.

> Some other methods aren't very helpful, I agree. I know
> you are a fan of Jan Fennell. What other dog books have
> you read that were written after 1995, Paul?

I'm not a fan of Jan (I'm a poet and I noet), I read her
book and saw her on TV and was impressed with some
of the results she achieved, but after deliberation I'm
now not so fond of her methods.

I can't recall at the moment all the books I've read,
How Dogs Think, by William E Campbell, No
Bad Dogs Just Bad Trainers by Charles Lee Kelly, Calming
Signals by a Norwegian author if I remember correctly, I
seem to recall a Bruce Fogel book, (and trying to forget
it), I've even read some of Koehler's ideas, The Dog
Whisperer by Paul Owens and a lot more but I'm not listing
them tonight. But that all seems irrelevant as we are
discussing Jerry's manual.

> Yes, distraction and praise can be helpful, but it does
> not always work in any situation. And it does not always
> work immediately, and in the mean time, you need to
> prevent problems by keeping a dog out of trouble. As Pat
> once said, you wouldn't leave dangerous medicines around
> for kids to find and eat, and hiding the garbage is a
> sensible precaution while dogs are likely to raid it, esp.
> as they can find objects in it that can harm them.

I disagree, distraction and praise is probably the only
method that does work in any situation and as immediate
as a dog can be trained.

Hiding garbage etc is a way to avoid a bin raid and
lose an opportunity to distract and praise and cure
the behavior forever, properly timed and conducted a
dog can lose interest in a behavior in one location in a
very short time (one training session).

Of course if you have to leave the dog in a situation
where it's going to do undesirable things before you
can address them then a temporary solution is required,
but to say keep a garbage bin out of the dogs reach for
ever rather than adopt a suitable training method is
ridiculous. Paul

------------------------------

Here's two Pauls:

Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p...@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsend...@aol.com

Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.

My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.

When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.

I will write to Amanda about the video.

I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.

Thanks again
Paul

=============================

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST

It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out of a cat bowl
without too much difficulty.

My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around
the bowls :-)

I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction
anytime the dogstried to eat the cats food, followed
with immediate praise. It worked a treat.

The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there
is food left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we
go out and leave the dogs with access inside through
a dog door.

Paul

Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.

> See the dogs, cats, us and pics of NZ etc at my homepage.....
> http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/paulbousie/index.html
> Updated regularly (last time 23 Jan 01) so keep coming back!!!

====================

"Paul B" <some...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3edc57c5@clear.net.nz...

> "shaper" <nom...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:3edb6bbb@quokka.wn.com.au...
> I have been reading these forums for a few weeks now, and am
> getting really confused!!
>
> but is there actually anyone who has used the methods in this
> manual with any success ?

100% TOTAL NON PHYSICAL CONTROL, NEARLY INSTANTLY,
BY NEARLY EVERY FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Student.

It's the GENTLEST, FASTEST, MOST EFFECTIVE,NON FORCE,
NON CONFRONTATIONAL, NON BRIBE, SCIENTIFIC and
PSYCHOLOGICAL technique in the Whole Wild World, BAR NONE.

> I am wanting to get a rhodesian ridgeback soon and really would like
> to know the best and most effective way of training without using food
> treats or violence (i do agree with what the guy says about food treats
> and violence)
> Thanks for any intelligent replies

I have tried his methods and found them extremely effective. There
are
several areas in particular I found useful.

He teaches you and the dog to pay attention to each other all the
time.
He teaches you to have such good communication with your dog you
don't need leash corrections or shock collars or even food, you can
get
the dogs attention any time you like by calling it or with a snap of
your
fingers.

When I trained both my dogs to "heel" or walk close to me I ended up
going to the parks and teaching them without a lead at all, that
ensured
I had to use good communication and was unable to be tempted to use
the lead to correct them.

Another part of the training I agree with is not using the "policeman"
approach, where you tell a dog "no" or react with it in such a way
that you become involved in the behaviour (by trying to stop it), this
approach often results in a dog ceasing the behaviour when you are
about but doing it when you aren't (bin raiding, counter surfing etc).

Basically you are taught to make your dog a good friend who likes
and wants to work for you for the pleasure of working for you
(setting the hierarchy is included in this), teach it to recall
reliably,
then to do everything else (sit, stay down etc etc).

Unwanted behaviours are addressed as they occur. If you understand
what you are trying to achieve and are prepared to work with it you
can
get great results.

Paul

===============================

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST

It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out of a cat bowl
without too much difficulty.

My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around the bowls :-)

I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction
anytime the dogs tried to eat the cats food, followed
with immediate praise. It worked a treat.

The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there is
food left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we go
out and leave the dogs with access inside through a dog door.

Paul

--
Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.

See the dogs, cats, us and pics of NZ etc at my homepage.....
http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/paulbousie/index.html
Updated regularly (last time 23 Jan 01) so keep coming back!!!

====================

From: Don Fitz [mailto:donfit...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003 11:53 a.m.
To: Ama...@DCFWatch.com; paulbou...@clear.net.nz
Subject: Jerry Howe

Hi,
Jerry uses your email in his posts and I was wondering

> what you have to say of his training methods.

From: "Paul Bousie" <paulbou...@clear.net.nz>
To: "'Don Fitz'" <donfit...@hotmail.com>; <Ama...@DCFWatch.com>

Cc: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: Jerry Howe

If you have read the newsgroup posts then you must
already have a good idea about what I think.

His methods are the best I have come across. They
aren't a quick fix but an entire training concept so if
you aren't in for the long haul then don't bother. If
you go his way then you have to forget all the other
gibberish that other people spew, you have to believe
in what you are doing, then and only then will you get
the results.

You can't combine his methods with other training
methods, not until you understand what you are
trying to achieve, and even then I have only ever
combined about 2 other trainers ideas and even
then just a snip of what they suggest which works
in parallel with the Wits End concept.

His methods make you as the trainer completely
responsible for your actions, his methods make
you think and work out your own solutions for
any given situation, the default (the recall) is
always there to get things under control again.

His ideas and concepts teach you to work with
the dog, to develop a team and a willingness to
work together which is surely the best way to be.
His methods don't use force or intimidation but
they do totally emphasize the absolute importance
of pack (family pack) structure, without that you
can achieve almost nothing.

If you are wondering how a dog can be trained
without any negativity the answer lies in the recall,
anytime your dog doesn't follow through with a
request you call him / her to you, since the recall
is the first thing taught and it is taught in such a
way it becomes a reflex the dog always returns
to you, it is a subordinate position for the dog and
we release it by asking for a "heel" which is an
"equal" position.

His methods are very good, his understanding of
dogs is excellent, I recommend his methods.
Paul Bousie

====================

"Paul B" <pand...@zfree.co.nz> wrote in message
news:3c2ae204@clear.net.nz...

Bollocks, the manual has no dangerous suggestions at
all, people who find the manual useful are those that
don't need to control a dog to satisfy their own ego
but simply want a well behaved dog that is easy to
live with. I would suggest the people who follow the
advice in his manual are people who have already
tried other inefficient methods and are fed up with
the poor results.

The more I think about the methods he suggests the
more sense it makes, the biggest problem is people
believe they have to be in control of the dog, tell it
whats right and wrong, dogs don't understand
our values and I don't believe they are capable of
understanding them either, so to train them we use
methods they understand. That means abstract
training, doing sometimes what appears to
almost be the opposite of what makes sense to us.

If you are purely result orientated then you will not
find Jerry's manual much use, if you love your dogs
and love to work WITH them then his manual is
your dream come true. Distraction and praise works
with any dog, when you sit back and really think about
it, it's very obvious why.

When a dog is properly distracted (and praised) of a
particular behaviour then that behaviour very quickly
becomes unfulfilling so the dog will no longer have any
interest in pursuing it, whether we are about or not,
thats the key to stopping garbage can raids and food
stealing etc etc, no force, no bad dog, just distracting it
in an appropriate manner that it no longer wishes to
pursue that behaviour.

Better than hiding the garbage can eh?

Paul

=======================

Subject: Re: Get off the bed... please?

Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbou...@clear.net.nz)
Subject: Good dogs!!! bad dogs.??
Date: 2000/10/21

Something occurred this morning that made me think how
we treat our dogs and what expectations we have of them.

Because it was a Saturday we slept in and the dogs
eventually jumped up on the bed on my wife's side. After
a brief greeting she very abruptly demanded they get down,
"OFF THE BED" she insisted, Sam looked at her perplexed,
so she repeated the "order", so Sam tried to lick her face,
"GET OFF" she said abruptly.

Sam got down but was unsure what he had done wrong. After
a bit they both came over and jumped up on my side, I patted
them etc and eventually asked them to get down, "off the bed,
good dogs" and they hopped off immediately with no prob's.

Eileen asked me why they obey me and not her so easily.
I told her they got down for me because I asked them to,
they know the command "off the bed" or "off anything" so
there is no need to demand it of them, ask them and they
will comply, demand it and they get confused because
they think you are annoyed with them but they don't know
why so they try to "make amends" which is why Sam licked her.

I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam
sit goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all, all
dogs want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they are
good then they feel an obligation to obey your request.

Telling Sam he's a good dog after he sit's apart from been too
late is also a gamble because if he doesn't sit then there's
no positive interaction.

Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good dog"
sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll find your
dog thinking then responding everytime.

Paul

=======================

From: Paul B (NOSPAMpand...@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Get off the bed... please?
Date: 2001-07-03 03:05:59 PST

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies to
every aspect of the relationship with your dog.

Paul.

========================

> I became a clicker trainer. Clicker training is a method
> of training which uses positive reinforcement to mark and
> reward for the dogs what behavior we like.

You mean your clicker method requires offerin an
witHOWELDIN attention affection an rewards <{}: ~ ( >

> The beautiful thing (to me) about clicker training is
> that the dog becomes an active and enthusiastic participant
> in the "training game."

No. The dog INCREASES anXXXIHOWESNESS and throws
meaningless mindless unthinkin anXXXIHOWESNESS
behaviors to release the treat from the human
Skinner Box <{) : ~ ( >

> It's quick, effective and a pleasure for both me and
> the dog I am working with, be it one of my own, or a
> rowdy, undersocialized dog in the shelter.

That's a load of crap, Sandy in OK:

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and learning
immediately deteriorated."

> And, it is an extremely elegant and effective method
> of communicating very precise information to our dogs.

Yeah? Well then HOWE COME you SUCCESSFUL "CLICKEROOS"
gotta jerk choke an lock dogs in boxes, an MURDER
innocent defenseless dumb critters YOU CAN'T TRAIN,
like Muttley, Sandy in OK?

> I also use other complimentary techniques and am constantly
> looking for new and better ways to communicate with dogs.

That so, Sandy in OK?

You're a REAL SPONGE for INFORMATION ain't you <{): ~ ) >

You PROBABLY READ EVERYTHING abHOWET tainin, eh Sandy in OK?

> I admit I am a bit of a "training junkie" I read everything
> I can get my hands on to help me understand how best to
> connect and communicate with dogs.

Oh, INDEEDY!:

"I might stick around for a while, and when this dies down,
see if I like it at all. I'd actually tried coming here before,
but quite honestly, the Puppy Wizard posts make my eyes and
brain glaze over. Can't make heads or tails of them and they
are very long. (I'm guessing that's the intent).

Sandy in OK

-------------

No Sandy in OK. The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey
Wizard's INTENT is to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE an DISCREDIT YOU.

LIKE THIS:

> I read everything I can get my hands on to help me
> understand how best to connect and communicate with dogs.

SEE??? SEE??? SEE???

> And I've come to understand that it involves a lot more
> than simply eliciting prescribed behaviors. Dogs are complex
> beings, with a more immediate and integrated view of things
> than most people.

You're blowin smoke up HOWER arses, Sandy in OK.

A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A HORSE Is A HORSE;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.

ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.

You GET The Critter You TRAINED

In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

ALL Temperament And Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

> In order to understand and connect with them, we
> must integrate our own approach by understanding
> them physically, emotionally and mentally.

And HOWE do you accomplish THAT by WITHOWELDIN
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TRUST an RESPECT makin your
dog's REWARDS contingient on his BEHAVIOR, thus
makin BEHAVIOR a PUNISHMENT when AVOIDED, to be
REWARDED?

> If we want our dogs to respond to the things we want
> them to do, it's important to understand the things
> that are important to them, and how they perceive a
> given situation. And of course, for every dog it is
> a little different.

Oh, you mean on accHOWENTA you DO NOT UNDERTAND
Pavlovian an Ericksonian CONDITIONIN, Sandy in OK.

> Some of the trainers, behaviorists and "dog philosophers"
> who have most influenced me are Suzanne Clothier,

susan clothier HURTS an INTIMDIATES dogs, Sandy in OK.

> Sue Ailsby, Karen Pryor, Turid Rugaas, Linda Tellington
> Jones (and our area TTouch practioner Kathy Cascade),
> and our holistic vet, Dr. Nita McNeill.

WONderful! You got ANY EVIDENCE that ANY of them
EXXXPERSTS can CURE ANY behavior problem NEARLY
INSTANTLY?

CITE some CASE HISTORIES of their methods CURING
aggression, separation anXXXIHOWESNESS, fear of
thunder, ANYTHING AT ALL Sandy in OK.

JUST WON CASE HISTORY of NEARLY INSANT SUCCESS
with ANY temperament or behavior probmlem???

BWEEEAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> I've been fortunate to attend a seminar with Suzanne
> Clothier and Pat Goodmann at Wolf Park, Indiana where
> we were able to observe and interact with the wolves),

Perhaps you met up with danoas of there?

> an instructors workshop with Suzanne Clothier at her
> lovely farm in upstate NY, also seminars with Sue Ailsby,
> Gary Wilkes, Chris Zink, Deb Spence, Brenda Aloff and
> other trainers such as Diane Bauman, Terri Arnold,
> AnneMarie Silverton, Dick and Kay Guetzloff, Jane
> Simmons Moake, Gottfried Dildei and Job Michael Evans
> as well as introductory workshops in TTouch and interspecies
> communication.

You're blowin smoke up HOWER arses you freakin ignorameHOWES.
susan clothier is a dog abusin punk thug coward mental case.

chris zink devised the SLIP CHOKE HARNESS.

brenda aloff "TRAINED" John Stossels dog to ATTACK HIM.

gary wilkes discovered DELAYED PUNISHMENT in clickeroo.

daine bauman is captain arthur haggerty's PARTNER:

captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

job michael evans promoted the death dealin ALPHALPHA ROLLOVER
which he SEZ he CAN NEVER MAKE UP for THAT DISASTERHOWES MISTAKE.

> And of course, as always, the greatest teachers are the dogs I meet.

Yeah? Sez a lot for your EXXXPERT trainers, eh Sandy in OK?

"I'd actually tried coming here before, but quite honestly,
the Puppy Wizard posts make my eyes and brain glaze over.
Can't make heads or tails of them and they are very long. (
I'm guessing that's the intent). Sandy in OK

WAS YOU LYIN THEN OR NHOWE, Sandy in OK?:

"I admit I am a bit of a "training junkie" I read everything
I can get my hands on to help me understand how best to
connect and communicate with dogs."

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!

I remain humbly, Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard at your service <{) : ~ ) >

HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU?

Reply to this Message

Sandy in OK - 19 Oct 2006 21:53 GMT

The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply_Amazing_Grand_Puppy_Wizard_@HotMail.Com
wrote:

> HOWEDY An WELCOME Newbies an AOL HEELers,
>
> HOWEDY Sandy in OK,

Gee, and I though I did way too much LSD in the 60s. Sandy in OK

Reply to this Message

GWB - 19 Oct 2006 22:21 GMT

>The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply_Amazing_Grand_Puppy_Wizard_@HotMail.Com
>wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
>Gee, and I though I did way too much LSD in the 60s. Sandy in OK

Yeah well, HOWEDY-boy must sniffed too much glue.

Reply to this Message

The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply_Amazing_Grand_Puppy_Wizard_@HotMail.Com - 20 Oct 2006 02:35 GMT

HOWEDY Sandy in OK,

> The_Insanely_Freakin_Simply_Amazing_Grand_Puppy_Wizard_@HotMail.Com
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>
> Gee, and I though I did way too much LSD in the 60s.

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing
Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard "JUST
SEZ 'NO!' to psychotropic substances an highly recommends
you do likeWIZE, Sandy in OK <{): ~ ( >

"A mind is a TERRIBLE thing to waste".

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >

I ain't been IGNORIN you, just been enjoyin watchin you givin
the lessons here abHOWETS for a pleasant change up <{) : ~ ) >

Was you LYIN then when you sez THIS?:

"I admit I am a bit of a "training junkie" I read everything
I can get my hands on to help me understand how best to
connect and communicate with dogs."

Or is you LYIN NHOWE, Sandy in OK?:

"I'd actually tried coming here before, but quite honestly,
the Puppy Wizard posts make my eyes and brain glaze over.
Can't make heads or tails of them and they are very long.
(I'm guessing that's the intent). Sandy in OK

You've heretofore been a *(self proclaimed) RESPECTABLE
DEDICATED member of the "PROFESSIONAL DOG TRAININ
community" TILL NHOWE. Don't you think it's abHOWET time
you start talkin OBEDIENCE TRAININ Vs PERSONALITIES???

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog,
Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual TRAINS ALL DOGS
And ALL HANDLERS ALL OVER The WHOWEL WILD WORLD
For ALL Behaviors And Utilities And CURES ALL Temperament
And Behavior Problems NEARLY INSTANTLY, Simply BY DOIN EVERYTHING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE
you do with your pathetic bribery, chokin, GL NECK TWISTER and
avoidance <{); ~ ) >

The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing Grand
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard got NO INTEREST
in IDENTIFYIN EXXXPOSIN an DISCREDITING you, Sandy in
OK <{}: ~ ) >

Just tell us your METHODS an The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin
Insanely Simply Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And
Horsey Wizard will simply DISCREDIT YOUR METHODS <{): ~ ) >

LIKE THIS:

Date: 12 Sep 2005 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Clicker Training for Dogs Newsgroups?

> > Hello,
> > Does anyone know of a dedicated newsgroup for
> > positive-only dog training, in particular clicker
> > training?
> > Thanks,
> > Lucy

Jen wrote:

> I would love to know of one as well. If there was
> enough people interested maybe we could start one.
> I've just started clicker training my dog and have
> been doing the positive training for a while now.
> I think it's great!!
> Jen

Jen, your request for a positive only dog training list,
needs the same answer as I give the folk who ask why I
don't have a list for what I do with biofeedback.

The method is so simple, and if you adopt it and relate
to your dog in such a positive manner you won't have any
more problems and there is no need for any more technique.

With Puppies we Ph.D. psychologists have been outflanked
by the entirely practical and effective methods described
in http://makeashorterlink.com/?K3AD21A3D Free
download, nothing sold, no mailing list, no distribution
of your name. Free support if needed.

With ADHD kids I provide similar information at
www.drbiofeedback.com and there is no need for
a list dealing with problems with kids. Apply
as directed and have happy healthy doggies or
kiddies.

Not difficult.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

P.S. jerk and choke, spanking, shocking, scruff shake,
choke, chin chucks, all those negatives, denial of
affection etc. are harmful, dranging, obscenities.

You might want to consider Pavlov's typology to
understand "hard and soft dogs" - essentially he
taught that there are outward and inward responding
organisms in weak and strong nervous systems and if
you grasp this firmly you'll shape your training
methods effectively.

Punishment ALWAYS deranges behavior, and so is
recommended and given only by deranged humans.

Of course, it doesn't matter if we are talking
dogs, cats, people, sheep, even husbands. Dr. Von

From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

=========

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff said.
> > Mike

> Ok Mike which part worked for you?

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

================================

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

BlueMoon Wrote:

Hello MOCrab.

Well, I'd take your advice and go thru the killfile as you have
recommended below, but Jerry's system Is WORKING wonders
with these two puppies in a matter of days. He may be abusive
and short-tempered with some people out there because, quite
frankly, I think he cares more about the dogs that the owner's
feelings and feels so strongly about it, it's aggravating to have
"experts" discount his methods.

My husband just got back from taking these 15 week old pups
for a walk, who now respond remarkably well to the "Zena-Zoey-
sit-good-girl!" phrase now when only said once no matter where
they are.

They also respond to the come here command. We trained them
(granted, out of order of the instructions) with the pennies in the
cans only two days ago to come to us when called. I've since
backtracked to do the exercises in the proper order.

They are calm and well-behaved and impress the Hell out of anyone who
sees them. "You're kidding, they're only 14 weeks old and they are THAT

well behaved?" Yessiree Bob, they are, and we've only had them for 12
days and have been training them (correctly for 3 days.

We still have more training exercises to do, but why fix something if
it's not broken??>?? These dogs are happy, we don't have to yell at or
scold them, they are learning to be secure and to pay attention to us
for approval and not out of fear.

I can only assume some might be threatened by this manual's methods
because it goes against all human logic on how to train a dog. It
certainly didn't make any sense to me, but I thought what the heck,
try it (even tho I still have to remind myself what to do because
my previous limited experiences with dog training were SO
DIFFERENT to the point that I almost felt like I needed to take
my brain out of my head and put it back in backwards!!!.....).....

BUT THE SYSTEM WORKS!!!

How in the world could someone just "make
something up" and it WORK?>??>?

My husband was very doubtful about this method when I told him I wanted

to try this. His dad was a vet, and certainly didn't use these methods
with the parade of dogs they had as kids. But now even HE has to admit
we're doing something right here, as our stress and frustration levels
have lowered and EVERYONE is much happier around here, especially
the dogs!

I really don't think people are used to the notion that you can train a

dog and it NOT be stressful or difficult. It's easy IF you do it just
like the manual says. It might be easier for some to NOT do it now and
go with the concept of control rather than respect and understanding,
because that's the way WE are used to thinking and heaven forbid WE
change OUR way of thinking and admit we've done some counterproductive
things in the past, right?

The results I'm seeing here with these puppies speaks volumes and
discounts what anyone tells me otherwise. This Wit's End manual is
now in a binder and we're sticking with it.

BlueMoon
------------------

Lauren wrote:

Everything Jerry does is positive reinforcement. In fact, a
lot of it is completely counter-intuitive (eg, praise the dog
even when he's doing the WRONG thing)... but for some bizarre
reason, it works.... His methods *don't* quite match up with
what Cesar does... but... I figure, if you're willing to give
it a try, the *worst* that could happen would be the dog gets
a lot of extra praise and there's no effect whatsoever :-).

The way Jerry's training works, *any* problem is sorted out
after four iterations of extinguishing the behaviour. He says
*anybody* can do it, *every* time, because if a method doesn't
work 100% of the time, for everybody, it's not a good method.

Here's *my* quick summary of it all....

Basically, Jerry's method is based on a foundation of:

a) Focusing the dog's attention on you (the Hot and Cold exercise)

b) Establishing yourself as pack leader (the Family Pack Leadership
exercise) - Note that he does this by dominating *mentally*, never
by dominating *physically* (no alph rolls, no leash corrections)

c) Praising EVERYTHING the dog does - desired or undesired !!!

This is the weird part !! because you are praising the dog
for *thinking* and *deciding* (even if he decided something
you didn't want him to do). This part is so counter-intuitive,
that a lot of people just won't even try this method of training,
because they "know" it couldn't possibly work.

You *never* show the dog displeasure, raise your tone, emphasize
a word strongly, sigh in disgust, *nothing* negative (a hard
habit for a human being to break), EVER. Everything is completely
calm and matter of fact.

All the dog ever hears is what a good dog he is, and you're
*telling* him what a great dog he is, even when he's doing
the behaviour you DON'T want him to do (!). As I said, this
makes so little sense to human beings that a lot of people
won't even *try* this method of training a dog.

d) You *never* put *any* pressure on, or pull on, the dog's
collar. the lead is *always* kept loose. NO corrections are
done by pulling on the collar (a hard habit for a human being
to break).

e) Every behaviour can be created, or extinguished, with only
four repetitions of the training session (another wildly counter-
intuitive concept).

f) Interrupting and eliminating bad behaviours from the dog's
repertoire is done by using sound distractions to condition
the dog *not* to do certain things (or, rather TO do certain
OTHER things)....

Part (f), the sound distraction part, always consists of an
unvarying sequence of saying the exact same thing, four times
in a row (the only new thing being the insertion of the command
keyword <sit, down, come, whatever>) into the sequence, and with
no tonal emphasis on the words at all... and you say all four
sequences in a row, as if they were one long monotone word...
Two of the verbal iterations are accompanied by a sound <pennies
rattling in a can> and two aren't. It's the timing of the sound
to come at the same time as the keyword, that is critical...

Iteration 1: Doggy-<keyword>-good-boy. (and he may have NO clue
what "<keyword>" means)... immediately followed by: Iteration 2:
Doggy-<keyword> <shake can with pennies on the word "<keyword>"> -
good-boy.... immediately followed by: Iteration 3: Doggy-<keyword>-
good-boy.... immediately followed by:Iteration 4: <toss can with
pennies so that *just* as you say the <keyword>, the can hits the
ground, somewhere on the far side of the dog>: Doggy-<keyword> <can
lands as you say the word "<keyword>"> - good-boy.

So, it's really: Take a deep reath: Doggy-keyword-good-boy-
Doggy-[keyword/NEARBY-SOUND]-good-boy-Doggy-keyword-good-boy-
Doggyy-[keyword/FAR-SOUND]-good-boy,

The important part is that the sound has to come from two different
locations, and it has to occur precisely when the keyword is said.

I, personally, have the most trouble with timing the toss
so that the far-away can lands precisely on the keyword.

Jerry explains how to communicate to the dog what "<keyword>"
means, with your own actions. Initially, the behaviours are
based on the dog's motion (coming, going), and the foundation
that was established in the first two exercises, and then he
focuses on extinguishing undesirable behaviours (barking,
jumping, aggression, slamming against fences, bolting through
doors). Establishing desired behaviours like "sit" and "heel"
takes up a lot of the third file.

I'm warning you right up front that Jerry's method seems
COMPLETELY counter-intuitive. Not just counter-intuitive,
it seems completely stupid, impossible, unlikely, ridiculous,
and even *uncomfortable* (for you, the human being) to do.

You reward the dog when he hasn't seemed to do *anything* yet.
(boy, do you feel stupid! "This can't work!" ... but it does.)

You reward the dog when he's very pointedly doing something you
DON'T want.... (keep that smile on your face, in your tone, and
in your body language! very difficult! "Why am I rewarding him
when he's disobeying or being bad?" Jerry explains why !! )

It's the weirdest thing in the world, and yet it seems to work anyway.

I know you don't have tons of time, and it is, of course better
to read the original author's version than a summary! But, here's
a quick summary of the exercises I'm hoping you'll think are worth
trying...

The "Hot and Cold" exercise:

- Done in four different sessions on the first day.
- Takes about 2-3 minutes. You praise the dog every time he
comes towards you, or even looks at you, even out of the corner
of his eyes. Very shortly, he's hovering close to you and keeping
at least one eye on you. Now he's paying attention.

The "Pack Family Leadership" exericise:

- Done in four different sessions on the first day. The first
session takes about 15 minutes the first time, the second session
that day takes about 12 minutes, 8 minutes for the third session,
6 minutes for the fourth session. You do it in a 60' x 60' foot
square (you'll be using a 20' x 20' section, the rest is for the
dog's 20 foot leash to play out, if he wants to roam).

Ideally each of the four sessions is done in four different physical
locations. Do this weekly for the first month, then monthly as a
"tune up" thereafter. What you do is, preferably the entire family
(although it can be done by just one person) marches very slowly
(one step per second) around the square, stopping at the corners,
talking only to each other, never pulling the dog along with them,
never looking at the dog. If he comes, or looks at the group, he
gets praised. If he looks away, or walks away, he hears nothing.

That's it!

Pretty soon, he's hovering around his "pack", seeking attention.

Now you have the foundation to build on.

You build on the "Pack Family Leadership" exercise, to get a come/
recall, by adding in the four iterations plus sound distractions,
as per Jerry's instructions.

After that, any undesired behaviour is interrupted with brief
variably alternating sound distractions

Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / October 2006

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