>We recently had our family cat put to sleep; ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>kidney, and most animals seem to 'fall asleep' or at least close their
>eyes before death...
> I can't address your other questions, but someone else probably will.
[ Apologies if I've asked those questions again below; please ignore if
this is the case! ]
> Finding a vein in an animal that is aged and/or ailing, even with a very
> tiny needle, is typically difficult because of so little pressure in the
> vein.
Understood. What is it about the kidney that makes it the second choice
for injection in the sequence? For a quick effect, I assume the drugs
target the heart, brain, or nervous system; I assume it's the heart,
given the primary choice of a vein?
> The solutions used for euthanasia are actually a combination of
> chemicals designed to manipulate specific organs/systems, in a
> prescribed sequence. For example, Fatal-Plus contains sodium
> pentobarbital (390 mg/ml), propylene glycol, ethyl alcohol and benzyl
> alcohol.
(I'm not in medicine myself, but I do recognise all of those as being
not health-enhancing)
> In euthanasia by injection, the eyes do remain open. Sometimes, there
> are some agonal breaths and/or vocalizations.
I have read other recent postings of other animals "falling asleep". Is
this another drug being administered - perhaps one that's in less
frequent use these days? Or do you think perhaps the owner mistook a
sedative for the drug itself?
Thanks for taking the time to answer. It's something I'd really like to
understand now, particularly from a professional, so that I'm better
informed if I ever have to make this decision again (or advise a friend
or relative)!
Damian
Michael A. Ball - 17 Jan 2007 17:44 GMT
>...
>Understood. What is it about the kidney that makes it the second choice
>for injection in the sequence? For a quick effect, I assume the drugs
>target the heart, brain, or nervous system; I assume it's the heart,
>given the primary choice of a vein?
Damian, please, don't confuse me with a professional. I'm merely
interested in the euthanasia process, and have learned a bit online and
from observing at the animal shelter.
I once asked, in this newsgroup, if anyone could explain just how the
euthansia pharmaceutical works, but no one responded. I'm not sure the
manufacturers would be any more willing to explain. So, for now, I don't
know and don't know how to find out. :-)
When I said that the shelter uses a technique similar to the one used
for your cat, I meant that I'm not sure they aim for the kidneys--or any
specific organ. The cats never seem distressed: they merely fade away,
and their heart stops beating in five minutes or less. They take longer
than your cat, but I have no idea of why. These cats are reasonably
healthy.
>> ...Fatal-Plus contains sodium pentobarbital (390 mg/ml),
>>propylene glycol, ethyl alcohol and benzyl alcohol.
>
>(I'm not in medicine myself, but I do recognise all of those as being
>not health-enhancing)
Propylene glycol is used in food and cosmetics, among many other things.
Ethyl alcohol (ethanol) is the variety of alcohol found in beer, wine,
spirits. It is toxic to us; so, our liver gets destroyed instead of us.
Of course, once our liver is gone, we're in deep trouble! Oh, the benzyl
alcohol (o.02%) is a preservative. Bear in mind, this is only for Vortec
Pharmaceuticals' Fatal-Plus. Other brands might contain some different
things.
>...
>I have read other recent postings of other animals "falling asleep". Is
>this another drug being administered - perhaps one that's in less
>frequent use these days? Or do you think perhaps the owner mistook a
>sedative for the drug itself?
Some vets do use a sedative ahead of the euthansia mixture. I'm not
positive about this part, but I believe use of the sedative is mostly
for the benefit of the pet owner. On *hopefully* rare occasions, the
euthanizing mixture does not perform as designed. Perhaps because some
organ is attacked before the CNS. I haven't been able to learn the part,
yet. In such cases, the animal does not go peacefully, but seems to have
a drug reaction. I recently asked my vet what was happening in such
cases, and he told me he had never seen that happen.
Anyway, the sedative is just an extra step that can be used.
On dangerous dogs, the shelter sometimes leads with Ketamine to
immobilize the dog. Ketamine can be given intra muscular via a long tool
that holds the syringe. The drug acts slowly, but allows the staff a
window of time in which to administer the Fatal-Plus in a vein. The
procedure is more gentle for the dog and safer for the staff.
Please, don't think that euthanasia mixtures and sedatives are the same
thing. The owner you mentioned might have made that mistake, but they
are similar, at best.
By a vast margin, most euthanasias, via injection, seem to go well.
Some very well-respected physicians believe that such euthanasias are
more merciful than what humans experience when executed by lethal
injection. Basically, their argument is that the convict is paralyzed
first--then put to sleep--then poisoned. So, regardless of how painful
(or not) the convict can't react. Personally, I believe those doctors
have too much free time. I'm sorry for getting of the subject.
________________________
Whatever it takes.
buglady - 18 Jan 2007 00:45 GMT
> By a vast margin, most euthanasias, via injection, seem to go well.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> (or not) the convict can't react. Personally, I believe those doctors
> have too much free time.
.......The real problem is that no medical person will oversee executions
due to the Hippocratic oath. Thus the horrible example of what happened in
FL when they apparently missed the vein. At least our pets are assured
professional attention.
buglady
take out the dog before replying
John Hasler - 18 Jan 2007 01:10 GMT
> .......The real problem is that no medical person will oversee executions
> due to the Hippocratic oath. Thus the horrible example of what happened
> in FL when they apparently missed the vein. At least our pets are
> assured professional attention.
They need to hire a vet (or an experienced vet tech).

Signature
John Hasler
john@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
buglady - 18 Jan 2007 13:07 GMT
> They need to hire a vet (or an experienced vet tech).
.......I've often thought that going to a vet might be more productive than
a medical dr. for humans. ;-)
buglady
take out the dog before replying