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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / April 2007Hypothetical Ethical Dilemma
So as many of you know, I've applied to vet school for this coming september. I just finished my last final exam for the term today (guess why I've been fairly quiet around here lately). A bunch of us hopefuls were chatting after the exam about the interview, and we came up with an interesting ethical problem. I know how I'd react, and I'm curious how the vets around here would react (and how the non vets feel the vets should react). A client brings in an illegal exotic. The animal is well cared for. The species is relatively simple to care for, but is illegal in your location. What do you do? Seize and destroy the animal? Send the animal away? Treat the animal? (The animal isn't in distress, and you do have the knowledge required to treat the animal) The specific example we were talking about was someone brings in a pet rat for you to vaccinate (rats are illegal outside of a research setting in Alberta). Your legal responsibility (here) is (apprently) to seize and destroy the animal. So, what would you do? Dale <labrador1@ibycus.com> whittled the following words: > So as many of you know, I've applied to vet school for this coming > september. I just finished my last final exam for the term today [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dale When I picked up a Great Horned Owl that was stranded in a wheat field, and another time, a duck hit by car, both times the vets i took them to sent me to wildlife rehab. They weren't allowed to treat wild animals. I would specify that you are not allowed to treat illegal pets. I think it would depend specifically on what type of animal we're talking about. I've had plenty of people want to bring in wild birds, squirrels, raccoons, etc...animals that I'm not supposed to treat and that aren't supposed to be kept by anyone other than a trained rehabber. I decline to treat these animals, and refer people to the wildlife center, but I'm not going to turn them in. Now if someone walked through my door with a tiger cub or a poisonous snake or something with the potential to be dangerous not only to that owner but to other individuals, I might be inclined to report it. Although quite honestly I doubt anyone with that type of animal would be dumb enough to walk into a vet clinic and give over their name and info without having verified before hand how the vet in question was going to react ;-). Deborah, DVM p.s. so what would your reaction be? > So as many of you know, I've applied to vet school for this coming > september. I just finished my last final exam for the term today (guess [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Dale >I think it would depend specifically on what type of animal we're talking >about. I've had plenty of people want to bring in wild birds, squirrels, [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > p.s. so what would your reaction be? Hadn't thought too much about wildlife. That one seems like a no brainer to me. I'm thinking more along the lines of things which are often kept as pets, but aren't indigenous to the area. (like someone bringing in a monkey or some such thing, although being very unsure about proper care for a monkey I don't think I can form an opinion there). In the particular case of rats in Alberta there are actually two seperate real scenarios that motivated the scenario. Case 1: Someone brought in a rat with a lump to the clinic. They'd been trying to find someone who would even look at their pet rat (they'd had it for quite some time). The vet at the clinic had a look at the lump to see if he thought it was something that needed removing (didn't feel comfortable putting the rat under, as he had no experience with rats). This rat was a hairless variety (so no chance of surviving our winters) Case 2: Mentioned case 1 to a friend of mine (another hopeful) and she was adament that she wouldn't look at the animal. She related to me a story of someone who brought a rat in to her father to be vaccinated. They had just moved to Alberta from another province where rats are legal pets. Her father seized the rat and destroyed it. Case 1. I would have looked at the rat. If that rat ever got loose, there is no chance of it managing to successfully breed in the wild. Case 2. I probably would have told them "You weren't here, I never saw you". But I'm a little shakier on this one. The rat could conceivably get loose and breed in the wild, and we are supposedly currently 'rat-free' in Alberta. There have been cases of animals getting loose, and outcompeting local populations (the local squirrel population is mostly decended from a group that got loose from the zoo back in the 1960s). Then again, we aren't *really* rat free, so it makes it difficult. Further seizing the rat will damage the relationship between the vet and the community, and seems to violate a trust. Dale Dale writes: > Her father seized the rat and destroyed it. He destroyed someone else's property without permission? That would get him in trouble in the US.  SignatureJohn Hasler john@dhh.gt.org Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org> said in alt.med.veterinary: >> Her father seized the rat and destroyed it. > > He destroyed someone else's property without permission? In Dale's scenario, was the illegal rat property? Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. Someone who Matt failed to attribute wrote: > Her father seized the rat and destroyed it. I wrote: > He destroyed someone else's property without permission? Matt writes: > In Dale's scenario, was the illegal rat property? How could the vet know that it wasn't the property of the person who brought it to him? Seizure and destruction of "illegal" property is the business of the government, not private individuals. SignatureJohn Hasler john@dhh.gt.org Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA > John Hasler <john@dhh.gt.org> said in alt.med.veterinary: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > In Dale's scenario, was the illegal rat property? To be honest I'm not totally sure I've been given the entire story. I e-mailed a guy in the Alberta government who is responsible for information on the rat control program in Alberta, and he told me a few interesting bits and pieces. 1. Spayed and neutered rats are also illegal (this doesn't make sense to me, but the source is reputable, so is probably true), all species of rat are also illegal. 2. The law says that illegal rats have to be relocated or destroyed. 3. There was nothing in the e-mail he sent me about who would actually be euthanizing the animal, but they expect a vet to report any cases of rats being brought in. What I suspect (although this wasn't what I was told, but seems to make the most sense given the new information I have) is that the vet told the client the law, and said the animal will have to be relocated or seized and detroyed, and they said essentially "Ok destroy it then". Dale > To be honest I'm not totally sure I've been given the entire story. I > e-mailed a guy in the Alberta government who is responsible for information [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > but the source is reputable, so is probably true), all species of rat are > also illegal. .........you need to see law on that to believe it. Sounds totally ridiculous to me. What exactly is a S/N rat going to do? Eat all the grain crops in Canada? Go out and purchsee new testicles so they can breed? Or are they worried about rabies? Better start killing off all the wildlife capable of catching rabies.......oh and cows too. I'd be really interested in the year this law was enacted - liable to be back in the dark ages. OK to keep ferrets in Canada? > 2. The law says that illegal rats have to be relocated or destroyed. > 3. There was nothing in the e-mail he sent me about who would actually be > euthanizing the animal, but they expect a vet to report any cases of rats > being brought in. ........they can expect anything they want, but is it a legal requirement that they do so? buglady take out the dog before replying >> To be honest I'm not totally sure I've been given the entire story. I >> e-mailed a guy in the Alberta government who is responsible for [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> also illegal. > .........you need to see law on that to believe it. I've been looking... I haven't been able to find a copy of it (which is why I e-mailed to ask) > Sounds totally > ridiculous to me. What exactly is a S/N rat going to do? Eat all the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > interested > in the year this law was enacted - liable to be back in the dark ages. I think its roughly 1950s ish. >OK > to keep ferrets in Canada? Yep. Its also Ok to keep rats in most of Canada, just not Alberta. >> 2. The law says that illegal rats have to be relocated or destroyed. >> 3. There was nothing in the e-mail he sent me about who would actually be >> euthanizing the animal, but they expect a vet to report any cases of rats >> being brought in. > ........they can expect anything they want, but is it a legal requirement > that they do so? You know I'm not sure... I think I'll e-mail the Alberta Veterinary Medicine Association. They've probably got a better idea. > buglady > take out the dog before replying > > ........they can expect anything they want, but is it a legal requirement > > that they do so? > > You know I'm not sure... I think I'll e-mail the Alberta Veterinary Medicine > Association. They've probably got a better idea. Dale, go read this for one vet's viewpoint on these kind of issues: http://tinyurl.com/2bbdof buglady take out the dog before replying > What I suspect (although this wasn't what I was told, but seems to make > the most sense given the new information I have) is that the vet told the > client the law, and said the animal will have to be relocated or seized > and detroyed, and they said essentially "Ok destroy it then". That's different. I had the impression that the vet took it upon himself to destroy the rat. SignatureJohn Hasler john@dhh.gt.org Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, WI USA |
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