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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / December 2007Is My Anger with Our Vet Reasonable?
Our cat hadn't eaten or drunken much water in several days, so we called our vet office to have him seen. This was on Monday, and they told us the next appointment available is Thursday, but if we wanted him seen sooner we could pay extra for like an emergency visit. Am I wrong to think this is reprehensible? I can understand paying an emergency room rate if you have to go at 3 in the morning, but we just wanted an appointment within 24 hours or so. We ended up calling another vet that my brother recommended and she saw him within 3 hours and was terrific to deal with. Needless to say we are transferring care to her office now. How can a business that supposedly cares about animals have such policies? Does anyone else out there have similar experiences? Is it normal? All the money we have paid them in the past for routine care, shots, etc, and the one time we need them for a semi-emergency they want their hands in my wallet! I had a similar experience w/ a Vet I used for years for my Lab. The Lab died of old age and we got a new girl from the shelter w/ health issues. The new dog ate something toxic while we were visiting friends one day and we found her unconscious. She had a slow heart rate and was breathing but was very compromised. We transported in a blanket to the Vet who of course did not know what it was, nor did we. He drew blood and after two hours she came around, but very lethargic. He gave her an injection and when I asked what it was he said it was Rimadyl for pain. Knowing that her system was very comprised I asked him why he would do that? She was now awake but still lethargic. He said she could be in pain!! (she remained like this for 18 hours.) Now she was sleeping again. I gave her benadryl according to her wt. and called and requested to return to the office w/ her. He got on the phone and said it was Friday at 6 p.m. and he was closing - Take her to the emergency clinic. (if her respiratory rate/heart rate would have been compromised she would have been dead - the drive was 40 minutes.) He could have knocked me over with a feather telling me this - I was shocked! Needless to mention we go somewhere else now. The best thing you can do is to tell everyone that has a pet in your area about this experience to cut down on his business. > Our cat hadn't eaten or drunken much water in several days, so we > called our vet office to have him seen. This was on Monday, and they [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > shots, etc, and the one time we need them for a semi-emergency they > want their hands in my wallet! > I had a similar experience w/ a Vet I used for years for my Lab. The Lab > died of old age and we got a new girl from the shelter w/ health issues. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > you can do is to tell everyone that has a pet in your area about this > experience to cut down on his business. I neglected to mention in the above message, after the IM Rimadyl she had a drug reaction - swollen and closed eye lids and a muzzle tht wouldn't shut. That was the reason for the benadryl and the call to the vet. I am in the medical profession so I certainly know a drug reaction when I see one. >> Our cat hadn't eaten or drunken much water in several days, so we >> called our vet office to have him seen. This was on Monday, and they [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> shots, etc, and the one time we need them for a semi-emergency they >> want their hands in my wallet! Jeffy3 <jeffy3@hotmail.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: > Our cat hadn't eaten or drunken much water in several days, > so we called our vet office to have him seen. This was on [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > room rate if you have to go at 3 in the morning, but we > just wanted an appointment within 24 hours or so. If your vet had to stay after hours to accommodate you, I'd say that an emergency fee would be appropriate.  Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. > Jeffy3 <jef...@hotmail.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > -- > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog. No, this isn't it. As I said we were looking for an appointment within the next 24 hours or so. I think that at a time when a pet needs the vet the most (suspected severe illness), to hike up the rates is gouging! >No, this isn't it. As I said we were looking for an appointment within >the next 24 hours or so. You still don't know whether or not it caused the vet to stay late. If they were booked solid or if the vet had made plans for the time you took, something had to give. Do you think they would have otherwise spent that time staring at the wall? Personally, I don't have a problem with paying extra for emergency or short-notice appointments. The money's going to be made up somewhere, whether they bill you directly for it or bury the costs elsewhere. My dentist doesn't charge me extra for same-day emergencies but you absolutely would not believe what she charges for regular work. Yes, vets work to serve the greater good, but don't ask them to be a charity and you their cause. SignatureMelinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore@panix.com Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community >>No, this isn't it. As I said we were looking for an appointment within >>the next 24 hours or so. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >think they would have otherwise spent that time staring at >the wall? but at the same time, they *know* there are urgent cases that will need to be seen sooner rather than later, and they should take that into account in their scheduling. imo, at least. we keep a number of "emergency" slots open for sick pets only because when we turn the phone on at 8 every morning, there are people calling with sick pets who need to be seen. Signaturehttp://shattering.org x-no-archive:yes in headers >but at the same time, they *know* there are urgent cases that will >need to be seen sooner rather than later, and they should take that >into account in their scheduling. imo, at least. we keep a number of >"emergency" slots open for sick pets only because when we turn the >phone on at 8 every morning, there are people calling with sick pets >who need to be seen. Sure, but time held open for emergencies is lost revenue and needs to be made up somehow. Whether that means charging more for regular services or charging more for emergencies, it's got to come from somewhere. SignatureMelinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore@panix.com Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community > Sure, but time held open for emergencies is lost revenue and > needs to be made up somehow. Whether that means charging > more for regular services or charging more for emergencies, > it's got to come from somewhere. ........I don't think I've ever gone to the vet and gotten in *on time* for a scheduled appt., unless it's first thing in the AM. That says to me they're plenty busy. buglady take out the dog before replying elegy <elegy@DOGPOOPshattering.org> said in alt.med.veterinary: > we keep a number of > "emergency" slots open for sick pets only because when we > turn the phone on at 8 every morning, there are people > calling with sick pets who need to be seen. How do you anticipate that part of your business? The OP's vet may be doing that, but those spots filled. Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. Jeffy3 <jeffy3@hotmail.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: >> If your vet had to stay after hours to accommodate you, >> I'd say that an emergency fee would be appropriate. > > No, this isn't it. As I said we were looking for an > appointment within the next 24 hours or so. If the vet's busy, as many are, someone's going to have to be shuffled and the vet stay beyond regular time. > I think that at a time when a pet needs the vet the most > (suspected severe illness), to hike up the rates is > gouging! I doubt that your vet is doing that; it's more probable that you've misunderstood or have unreasonable expectations. Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. > Jeffy3 <jef...@hotmail.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > -- > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog. I appreciate everyone's thoughts. It's a big practice with several vets, and also an animal hospital for emergency visits. I'm switching to the smaller practice which is closer to home anyway. Jeffy3 <jeffy3@hotmail.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: > I'm switching > to the smaller practice which is closer to home anyway. I'm a big fan of choice. Make sure that you and the vet have good communication; to put it lightly, I find that important. Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. > How can a business that supposedly cares about animals have such > policies? Does anyone else out there have similar experiences? Is it > normal? All the money we have paid them in the past for routine care, > shots, etc, and the one time we need them for a semi-emergency they > want their hands in my wallet! I suspect there may be a communication issue here (that shouldn't be). If the only time they could accomodate you - because they had more severe cases to deal with during regular hours - is after hours, then an emergency fee would not be unethical. However, if the person on the other end of the phone did not interpret your need correctly, you should call and ask to speak to the doctor in charge or practice manager to express your concern. In our practice, if a client says it's an emergency, then it is. Please call the owner and discuss it with them. If you had this experience then someone else may have had it too. >> How can a business that supposedly cares about animals have such >> policies? Does anyone else out there have similar experiences? Is it [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Please call the owner and discuss it with them. If you had this experience > then someone else may have had it too. That's precisely what I was going to say. Call the owner and make sure that he/she is aware of what happened. It very well may be that clinic's policy to not see anybody on a "walk-in" type basis without charging an emergency fee (which is within their rights although you may not agree with it), but it is also possible that the receptionist just didn't know or didn't care. We will always see pets, even if we don't have appointments. We tell people that they will be worked in, and they may have to wait. I do know that there is a vet in our area who WILL NOT see clients if she doesn't have an open appt. She has actually sent her clients to us, because "we'll see anybody" and "we're willing to work through lunch" and she isn't! So it does happen. Deborah, DVM >She has actually sent her clients to us, because "we'll see anybody" and >"we're willing to work through lunch" and she isn't! Lunch? What's that? ;-) >>She has actually sent her clients to us, because "we'll see anybody" and >>"we're willing to work through lunch" and she isn't! > > Lunch? What's that? ;-) It's the meal you eat at 10pm on the way from the shower to the bed.... ;-) My vets also do what the staff calls "dropoffs". Appointments are full, but you've got a sick or slightly hurt but not emergent animal? Bring in the animal, one of the very experienced techs will take notes about the issue, do a quick exam, and then the pet is taken to the back where s/he can be examined, observed, and treated in the odd moments between appointments. You'll be called by the vet and talked with about the case so you can ok the treatment plan as soon as they get it figured out. I also had a note put in my file that it was ok to bump me for any routine appointment if they got jammed up. They've done it a couple of times... it's not an issue for me. Good vets are more than worth working with. My vets do not do after-hours emergencies -- they refer you to the emergency clinic/ICU that's really quite state-of-the-art -- they've got the staff and equipment and expertise to handle something that urgent. http://dovelewis.org/ Kay I do know that > there is a vet in our area who WILL NOT see clients if she doesn't have an > open appt. She has actually sent her clients to us, because "we'll see > anybody" and "we're willing to work through lunch" and she isn't! So it > does happen. ........holy cow! This is not a vet I'd use. If I'd been going there for years with an animal under her care, I can't imagine not being seen in an emergency, where all the records are, all the test results and a vet who has a knowledge of what the pet's problems are. It's not that I think vets ought to work through lunch and not go home until way past supper, but it seems to me there's a bit of an obligation to take care of current patients. Never before seen pets I can understand. buglady take out the dog before replying > I do know that >> there is a vet in our area who WILL NOT see clients if she doesn't have [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > buglady > take out the dog before replying We think it's a bit crazy too ;-). I actually had something recently happen -- Saturday morning, booked as usual (which for me is back to back with sick animals, why can Saturday's never be full with routine vaccinations????). First emergency comes in...client animal....big dog with a nasty snake bite. So I'm working on him, had just had the techs start an IV and antivenin, when in comes emergency #2. Seizuring diabetic cat -- NOT a client, she was on her way to her regular vet but she still had a 20 minute drive and she was passing by our clinic, called her vet who said "stop and get kitty seen!". There was no way I was going to turn that cat away. So I'm trying to evaluate that cat, the snake bite dog starts crashing, meanwhile the client I'd had in the exam room before emergencies #1 and #2 has been waiting more than 30 minutes for the rest of her exam....and there are records stacking up to go back. Oh well, it happens, you hate it, but you deal with it! And if you don't deal with it then I think private practice isn't really the place for you ;-) LOL. Deborah, DVM >....and there are records stacking up to go back. Oh well, it happens, you >hate it, but you deal with it! And if you don't deal with it then I think >private practice isn't really the place for you ;-) LOL. Sign me up for the support group! First emergency comes in...client animal....big dog with > a nasty snake bite. So I'm working on him, had just had the techs start an > IV and antivenin, when in comes emergency #2. Seizuring diabetic cat -- NOT > a client, she was on her way to her regular vet but she still had a 20 > minute drive and she was passing by our clinic, called her vet who said > "stop and get kitty seen!". There was no way I was going to turn that cat > away. ........bless you for that.......somehow, sometime, maybe not today <g>, you'll get your rewards for your compassion. As for emergencies piling on.......must be the moon phase. Oh well, it happens, > you hate it, but you deal with it! And if you don't deal with it then I > think private practice isn't really the place for you ;-) LOL. ........yeah, there's no way you can manage to schedule emergencies. It just happens. buglady take out the dog before replying > Our cat hadn't eaten or drunken much water in several days, so we > called our vet office to have him seen. This was on Monday, and they > told us the next appointment available is Thursday, but if we wanted > him seen sooner we could pay extra for like an emergency visit. Am I > wrong to think this is reprehensible? .........I've never had an emergency when I couldn't just take an animal in to be seen within a short period of time. If someone hauls a bleeding dog into the clinic and I have to wait past my appt, I totally understand because I've been there. One time I had a dog exhibiting signs of pancreatitis and I waited in the waiting room for two hours. She got better. I went home. But if she'd been in severe pain they would have squeezed me in sooner. These experiences cover more than one vet practice. I've never been charged extra for an emergency. .....I suspect, because (as you noted in anothr post) this practice has an emergency clinic attached to it they have different policies. All standard vet clnics deal with emergencies, because, well there always are emergencies! Some days more than others. ......For regular appts, though, these days it's hard to get any before 3 or 4 days elapses. buglady take out the dog before replying > ......For regular appts, though, these days it's hard to get any before 3 > or > 4 days elapses. Depending on client flexibility, usually we can find next day availability. Same day if there are cancelations or surgery no-shows. But if they want first or last appt of the day it may be 3-4 days. As for waiting, in our practice it may be anywhere from a few minutes (standard) to 15, maybe 20 depending on what emergencies fly in the door (critical immediate care emergencies during appointments when other doctors are not available are not daily). Last week we had 4 walk in critical emergencies within a 1 hour period in our busiest 2 hour period with only 2 doctors around. Most people were seen within 10-20 minutes of their appt. even if to get the initial stages of the appt. done. It's all how staff is used. The longest anyone waited in recent times is also last week when we had a critical dog come in and after exam & bloodwork our vet halted everything and presumed lepto, meaning we had to go into isolation protocol until results came back (4 days later, and they were positive). At that point my staff became limited temporarily and folks had to wait or reschedule. All were amazingly understanding. After all, they may be a future emergency themselves and need to take priority. Communication is so important. "buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> wrote in message: > ......For regular appts, though, these days it's hard to get any before 3 or > 4 days elapses. Regular appointments, I can generally get in within 24 hours, except I'm picky about who I take the dogs to, so we opt to wait for the right vet to have a slot. It's almost never more than 2 days. I have *never* had a vet tell me that they don't have a slot open, especially if I I feel it is an emergency and they agree upon listening to the description (last was when Khan was bleeding from his eye IIRC, and they took us as soon as we could get there). A friend of mine suspected her dog was bloating, called as the vet was closing, and they basically asked her to hop in her car and get the dog there as fast as she could, they'll take care of the rest. I have been bumped due to emergencies, and been fine with accommodating. After all, I would want other people to be reasonable about it if my dog were in distress. Suja My vets' office has emergency slots. I've always been able to get in - for emergencies anytime, and for "worried but not emergent", I can get in if I take the available slot. They've also made accommodations for me when I'd just started a new job and had a sick dog - they let me drop the dog off, and the vet saw her when she was able and then called me back. I have, unfortunately, had enough emergencies that have caused others to wait, and I keep that in mind when I'm waiting for a routine appt and get delayed. For regular appts, it usually takes me a few weeks because i want a particular vet and prefer after work or weekends. If not for those criteria, I could get in within a few days. > "buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> wrote in message: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Suja > "buglady" <buglady99@bigfootdog.com> wrote in message: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >>4 days elapses. I was surprised to call for an appt Monday at 8:30a and find the first opening was Friday at 12:45p. This thread has been an interesting read. I'm almost always there for half an hour before I see the vet, sometimes longer if there are emergencies. Kate <snip> > How can a business that supposedly cares about animals have such > policies? Does anyone else out there have similar experiences? Is it > normal? All the money we have paid them in the past for routine care, > shots, etc, and the one time we need them for a semi-emergency they > want their hands in my wallet! =========== If they are totally booked up and can't fit you in, I don't see a problem with the extra charge. I would think, though, they would always keep some time slots open for such emergencies. I have been told the same by two different vets, that if it is an emergency, they will have to charge more for the visit. When it is an emergency, I don't care I just want to get the dog to the vet and see what's wrong with the dog. If, for any reason, I am not totally happy with the vet, i.e. the vet never seems to find the problem after a slew of tests that I am paying big bucks for, and the dog's health is not getting any better, or my dog is uncomfortable with the vet, or I have to wait in the waiting room too long with my dog along with a lot of other animals, or if I have to wait to many days for an appointment, I will not hesitate to find a new vet. The only time I don't think it is fair to be charged the extra charge for an emergency visit is when I have to bring the dog back into the office, because the dog's condition has become worse, after the dog has been under the care and treatment of the vet for some particular problem at that time. I find that very upsetting. They should not charge extra for that emergency visit. > <snip>> How can a business that supposedly cares about animals have such > > policies? Does anyone else out there have similar experiences? Is it [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > I find that very upsetting. They should not charge extra for that emergency > visit. A few other people we know who have used the same vet have the same complaint. There's always an emergency charge if you need to see the vet sooner rather than a scheduled appointment. Jeffy3 <jeffy3@hotmail.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: > A few other people we know who have used the same vet have > the same complaint. There's always an emergency charge if > you need to see the vet sooner rather than a scheduled > appointment. I'm sure that one of you must have questioned that policy. What was the vet's response? Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. > Our cat hadn't eaten or drunken much water in several days, so we > called our vet office to have him seen. How many days is several? I'm not saying this is good practice from the vet's point of view, but at some very large veterinary hospitals I don't think its uncommon. I know the local 'big box' veterinary hospital is notorious charging exorbitant rates for just about anything. Reminds me of a time a few months back. Walk-in comes in from Radium (~250km away). The dog had a suspect lump in her abdomen, was lethargic and relatively anaemic. She was in for an operation later that day. (Turns out she had a 3lb ovarian tumour). Another fun story... I wasn't there for this one, but I heard about it after the fact. This happend on a saturday. Dog comes in a couple of days after a major operation, because the owner is concerned as there seems to be some kind of reaction going on with the sutures. The tech takes a quick look at it when the dog (a very bouncy Weimeraner) comes through the door, and sees them directly to an exam room. The one vet who was on duty at the time was in a appointment. The tech goes over to other exam room, and the conversation goes something like this.... Tech (in her calmest voice): Excuse me Doctor? We could use your help for a moment over in the other exam room. Vet: I'll just be one minute, and I'll be finished up here. Tech (still calm): Actually I think you'd like to see this now. Vet (not grasping the seriousness of the situation): OK, I'll just be a minute. Receptionist in the background: OH MY GOD IS THAT HIS LIVER?! Vet (to the client): If you'll excuse me for a minute. Turns out, some of the sutures had ruptured, and the 'reaction' around the incision was the dog's liver peaking out. Unfortunately, had to send the dog over to another vet to fix things up (after making sure there was no immediate danger), but the clinic covered the cost. Some days, things *are* just totally booked up. 'Fitting' you in means that someone else gets bumped, or the day just gets out of control (appointments start to stack up). Given that the cat hadn't 'eaten or drunk' much in 'several' days, I'd say this needed to be seen sooner rather than later (i.e. 24hrs could have been too long). What I'd imagine is that if you'd gone ahead, you would have been heading down right away, and not 24 hours later. I think my own vet's reaction to this would have been to have you come in, and wait in the waiting room until some time opened up (either because of a no show, or because someone gets in and out faster than expected) Dale |
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