 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / March 2008Feline scabies - Dr. Deb??
Notoedric mange. Wondering how common this is, particularly in FL? Personally I've never seen it before. I have a neighbor whose cat's head looks suspiciously like he has mange. He's itchy, losing hair on head (he's all white but not albino), and the ears are very red. I did some scotch tape mounts to look for fungi, looked at the ear wax for mites - nothing. She took him to the vet for it 2 weeks ago and they gave the cat a complete set of vax plus Depo Medrol. Grrrrrrrrrr! She loves her kitties, but can't seem to spend money on them. Well, half of her previous bill was vax which she could have spent on diagnosis, but then she dropped the cat off, they did what they wanted. They did no scrapes or fungal cultures. About a week after they did the vax the cat was laying around not wanting to eat. That was why she called me to begin with. I said you MUST know if he's peeing, as he's a male. If not, get to the vet. He was drinking and he finally did pee that day. He also seems to move funny in the hind end. His appetite has picked up but he's still not back to normal. My reaction would be to get complete blood work, a good physical, skin scrapes, maybe fungal culture if the scrapes were negative, but it looks more like mites to me, just the way the ear skin is inflamed and wrinkled where it joins the center of his head reminds me of all those mite ridden pit bulls you see. Apparently CA is a hotbed of this kind of mange, but never seen it on my cats here. I will keep harassing her to get to a different vet. I can excel at instilling guilt! ;-) buglady take out the dog before replying I don't think I've ever seen a confirmed case (i.e. seen mites on skin scrapings). I suspect it's probably not that uncommon, it probably just goes undiagnosed. If I've got a cat with red itchy ears, I'm going to treat for ear mites whether I see them or not. And since the treatment for ear mites is typically some type of ivermectin (i.e. milbemite or revolution), then you'd probably kill the notoedric mites as well! With your particular case, if she's not willing to do diagnostics, I'd think a dose of Revolution would be the ticket -- it'd treat pretty much anything except ringworm (but I'd think ringworm on just the head and nowhere else would be odd). If she doesn't want to go to the vet at all, lime sulfur dip is also excellent for treatment of ANY skin problem (except demodex). It's stinky but it's safe and very effective for bacteria, fungi, and parasites. I suspect the cat got sick from vaccinations, especially if it got a lot. I will see that occasionally about 7-10 days after vaccinations, they run a fever and feel miserable, and usually get better after a few days. Obviously, though, a thorough workup is ideal ;-). Hope you are successful with your bullying! Deborah, DVM > Notoedric mange. > Wondering how common this is, particularly in FL? Personally I've never [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > buglady > take out the dog before replying > I don't think I've ever seen a confirmed case (i.e. seen mites on skin > scrapings). I suspect it's probably not that uncommon, it probably just > goes undiagnosed. If I've got a cat with red itchy ears, I'm going to treat > for ear mites whether I see them or not. And since the treatment for ear > mites is typically some type of ivermectin (i.e. milbemite or revolution), > then you'd probably kill the notoedric mites as well! ............any side effects with ivermectin in cats since it's off label? > With your particular case, if she's not willing to do diagnostics, I'd think > a dose of Revolution would be the ticket -- it'd treat pretty much anything > except ringworm (but I'd think ringworm on just the head and nowhere else > would be odd). ......Now the cat has a reddish spot on the belly he's worrying and is losing hair on his legs, so wonder if it's more likely to be fungal, but since the vax and steroids happened when the cat was already itchy, could be it knocked him down enough the mites are running rampant. But I agree the cat would have been better served with Revolution than vax at the time. She put Advantage on a couple of weeks ago - any unsafe interactions between the two? If she doesn't want to go to the vet at all, lime sulfur dip > is also excellent for treatment of ANY skin problem (except demodex). It's > stinky but it's safe and very effective for bacteria, fungi, and parasites. ......Yes, that would take care of all but demodex. I'm a big fan of that stinky dip! A local vet still gives dips at his clinic. Wonder how many have eschewed this mess making stuff for drugs. Then again it's easier to dip a dog than a cat! > Hope you are successful with your bullying! ......not yet........sigh...but I have yet to get out the big guns......thanks Dr. Deb buglady take out the dog before replying Sorry I didn't reply sooner, having internet troubles.... >> I don't think I've ever seen a confirmed case (i.e. seen mites on skin >> scrapings). I suspect it's probably not that uncommon, it probably just [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > ............any side effects with ivermectin in cats since it's off label? Never seen any >> With your particular case, if she's not willing to do diagnostics, I'd > think [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > between > the two? Nope. > If she doesn't want to go to the vet at all, lime sulfur dip >> is also excellent for treatment of ANY skin problem (except demodex). [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > buglady > take out the dog before replying Hopefully you'll get it figured out and kitty will recover. Good luck! Deborah, DVM > Hopefully you'll get it figured out and kitty will recover. Good luck! ......kitty's off to vet tomorrow! <g> buglady take out the dog before replying > ......kitty's off to vet tomorrow! <g> ..........bad news, cat is FIV positive, so more diagnostics weren't done until she decides how to handle it. New vet looked at his records and couldn't find any evidence they actually tested for either FeLv or FIV when he came into the house as a stray 5-6 yrs. ago and apparently the old vet didn't even consider these diseases when the cat was there a couple of weeks ago. Grrrrrr. Could have had it yrs ago, could have gotten it later. That's why the cat was flat for a week after the vax barrage. At any rate, she managed to talk her old vet into testing her other 2 cats this afternoon (no slots avail. at new vet) as their status will affect what happens, one just came into the house in Nov. and was tested then and was negative, other is 14 yrs old and probably hasn't actually been tested for anything in yrs. Current thinking is that if they're both negative she'll rehome the young cat and just let the old cat and the FIV cat hang out together. I know she doesn't want to put the FIV cat down. She's had a rough yr anyway with a double mastectomy in Dec. .....Question: the web info says FIV mostly transmitted by cat fights. This vet said eating out of same bowl, grooming, any exchange of saliva can transmit. How likely is that? All 3 cats (all male) get along very well, FIV cat and old cat groom each other. She's lucky enough to have a very large screened in area, and while they'll miss trees and grass, at least they can go outside safely. ......when it rains it pours......... buglady take out the dog before replying > .....Question: the web info says FIV mostly transmitted by cat fights. > This vet said eating out of same bowl, grooming, any exchange of saliva [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > large screened in area, and while they'll miss trees and grass, at least > they can go outside safely. Sorry to hear about kitty. With regards to transmission, FIV is transmitted the same as human HIV, i.e. through bite wounds and sex (blood transfusions and shared needles not really an issue for most cats ;-)). Theoretically if the positive cat licked an open wound he might transmit it, but FIV is not considered to be transmitted through food bowls or grooming. Leukemia, on the other hand, most definitely IS. So are you sure that the cat has FIV and not FeLV??? Different prognosis with the two, in my book. Sick FIV cats tend to have very short lives in my experience, while even sick FeLV cats can live long lives. Deborah, DVM > Sorry to hear about kitty. With regards to transmission, FIV is transmitted > the same as human HIV, i.e. through bite wounds and sex (blood transfusions [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cats tend to have very short lives in my experience, while even sick FeLV > cats can live long lives. ........didn't you mean that the other way around - long WRT FIV, short WRT FeLV? Now I'm spreading the confusion around! ........This new vet is an old vet of mine, who has some habits I really like and left for entirely personal reasons WRT office management. He instituted some ridiculous human medical office model and I felt like a pingpong ball repeating myself to techs who knew not much with very limited vet time. His daughter, the office manager, also went postal on me once, with no apology from him. I ain't the only one who left! He came in and said he has feline AIDS, which is FIV. I can't imagine why he said the stuff he did about transmission. Well, anything's possible I suppose, just not highly likely. He said they can live a long time with FIV, so he couldn't have been talking about FeLV. Lymph nodes, eyes, teeth & gums, heart and lungs all normal and good. He's just scratching himself to death. He had a new tech in there too and I asked if the FIV test was ELISA and either she didn't know what I was talking about or wasn't prepared for a lay person to know the term ELISA and couldn't hear me so didn't really answer. The tech also told me that there could be no false positives. Huh. You wonder why I'm always on the computer! As I understand it only way to rule out false positives is with Western Blot. Doubt this cat had ever had FIV shot, taken in as full male at 4-5 months old over 5 yrs ago, so probably had no shots before she did them and got him neutered. Anyway other two cats, including 14 yr old tested negative! Yippee. Just as a point of interest he said they have seen a few cases (maybe 6) of feline scabies this past year and even a cat with demodex! He said fungal diseases went way up after the '04 canes. He's in the process of dipping all his cats and dogs for fungal diseases. buglady take out the dog before replying .....OK, yesterday she managed to snag a quick appt for today for her other two cats for FIV testing. But, she decided to call her old vet and see if they could be squeezed in ysterday, and were, so for today's appt (at the new vet) she took in the FIV cat instead. They did scrapings, imagine they got samples for fungal culture and tape mounts (have to verify this), but no one could tell her anything as vet was out treating horses. Can't vet techs diagnose mites or the lack of under the scope? The only other possibility is allergy. And from some reading I guess you can see eosinophils under the scope too? She asked again if there was anything they could give her for itching relief and this cat is now scratching like mad and more hair falling out. Nope, they didn't. I would think he could have left instructions for something for relief, even if he had to be the one to diagnose. So, if the cat has had all the samples taken, couldn't we give him a lymedip? I've got some leftover from several yrs ago. Will it still be good? And can cats take Benedryl? Of course the cat shouldn't get a steroid shot, but something to ease his misery would help. I'm now sorry I told her to go to my old vet and starting to feel POed. :-( buglady take out the dog before replying > .....OK, yesterday she managed to snag a quick appt for today for her other > two cats for FIV testing. But, she decided to call her old vet and see if [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Nope, they didn't. I would think he could have left instructions for > something for relief, even if he had to be the one to diagnose. ......they just called her and "skin scraping multiple areas and the scotch tape test - cytology" revealed nada, zip, nil and fungal culture takes 3 weeks. Cat will be prescribed something on Monday. Oh gee thanks. So, if the > cat has had all the samples taken, couldn't we give him a lymedip And can cats take Benedryl? Any contraindications for an FIV cat? buglady take out the dog before replying > So, if the >> cat has had all the samples taken, couldn't we give him a lymedip > And can cats take Benedryl? Any contraindications for an FIV cat? > > buglady > take out the dog before replying Sorry for the delay in responding, I'm still having internet troubles. No reason not to lym dip and no reason not to give benadryl. Only caveat with benadryl, you usually have to give liquid to dose it correctly (1mg per lb) and most cats hate it, start foaming at the mouth from the taste. Doesn't hurt them but looks awful. In answer to an earlier post you'd sent, in my experience it seems that sick leukemia cats live longer than sick FIV cats. There's nothing scientific behind that, just my experience. When they are asymptomatic I've seen both live for a long time. It just seems that once FIV cats show signs of illness, they go downhill fast. Deborah, DVM p.s. skin scrapings are often unrewarding, esp in cats, so neg results don't really mean a lot. and if the cat is really that itchy, and lymdip and benadryl don't help, then I'd give steroids, regardless of FIV status > In answer to an earlier post you'd sent, in my experience it seems that sick > leukemia cats live longer than sick FIV cats. There's nothing scientific > behind that, just my experience. When they are asymptomatic I've seen both > live for a long time. It just seems that once FIV cats show signs of > illness, they go downhill fast. .........Interesting. He's eating well, but sleeping a lot. buglady take out the dog before replying > p.s. skin scrapings are often unrewarding, esp in cats, so neg results don't > really mean a lot. and if the cat is really that itchy, and lymdip and > benadryl don't help, then I'd give steroids, regardless of FIV status ............Cat has been dipped 3 times. I did two of them, second time with Malaseb shampoo first. Whew, that was NOT fun! This cat acted like I was trying to drown him and he nailed me good on the second dip. I'll have to say that the shampoo made all the difference in the dip soaking in, though getting dunked twice was not good for the kitty. I found some fleas when I shampooed. I got a harness for him for the second dip and that helped, but it bled pink color all over him! He was a mess! .....Cat has been on either Chlortrimeton or Benadryl twice a day. All last week he improved fast. Finally he's back to normal and is yelling all day to get outside. He feels pretty good now, still eating well. He's getting a little fuzz on his head, so the hair is growing back. I did a second tape mount and found nothing but a few broken hairs. .......Culture was read Friday. No fungus. In summary they told her he didn't have mites either. Excuse me! Just because they didn't find them, doesn't mean they weren't there. (Is it possible it was staph or yeast that made him itch? He was on Clavamox also.) He may also be overreactive to fleas and possible mites plus the vax/steroids sent him over the moon. At any rate no more dips! I am happy! Since the life cycle of mites is 3 weeks they should be dead by now, unless they were demodex. I'll have to tell her to put Advantage on him now, to cut back on another itch stressor. .....He escaped the other day and I found him out by my house. He struggled after I picked him up as I am the devil, but he settled down a bit on the way back home, which made me feel a little better. I think the whole thing stressed me out just as much as the cat! ;-( .....I did some reading on the commercial slants available to grow fungi. Almost all the DTM has a color indicator in it, turning pink within 72 hours if there's the usual 2 or 3 ringworm species present. This vet does his own fungal cultures. AFter 2 weeks if it turns pink it's a saprophyte. She called after 7 days and they would tell her nothing. I would think they would have known by this point whether it was a ringworm fungus or not, just not what species. Altogether unsatisfying experience with my old vet. At any rate at 15-17 bucks for 10 slants, I'm wondering if I can order some for myself if I run into this situation in my own household. There's one brand that also includes pix of the culture growth of various species. I wonder how many they did? Surely more than one. I would think at least 3. Anyway, hoping it's all uphill from here. buglady take out the dog before replying |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.