Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / February 2008

.........First will you finally get that 6 panel thyroid run?  I would not
treat a dog with this particular constellation of ailments with phenobarb
until I knew he wasn't hypothyroid.  Think about it.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

HOWEDY dale

Erwin's the BIG dog you like to jerk an choke, ain't IT, dale?

Yeah. That's CAUSED BY you jerkin chokin intimidatin and
EXXXCESSIVELY vaccinating an feedin him commercial
garbage dog food <{}: ~ ( >

That's curiHOWES. That AIN'T a symptom of arthritis.

SEE?

Your dog is EXXXPERIENCING nerve failure, dale. It's
CAUSED BY STRESS from abusin him as you PREFER.

You mean 'anyHOWE', you pathetic piece of sh.t.

When dogs have STRESS INDUCED neuro degenerative / mylopathy
DIS-EASES, the effects appear randomly througHOWET the body; sometimes they
come on as cataracts, glaucoma, Addison / Cushings,
other times it comes on as kidney stones, irritable BHOWEL DIS-
EASE, "idiopathic" seizures, cruciate ligament failure, vestibular
syndrome, laryngeal paralysis, and of curse, cancers, phobias, bloat,
obsessive compulsive disorders, canine cognitive disease, aggression,
and death.

Yeah. Know what, dale? In forty sumpthin years of specializing
in temperament and behavior problems and raisin an trainin mostly
giant breed workin dogs for families and industry, havin owned
hundreds of dogs, I've only had WON dog who had only WON
seizure.

INDEED? And you think that's NORMAL?

You mean 'anyHOWE,', dale <{}: ~ ) >

That's often a symptom of thyroid DIS-EASE <{}: ~ ( >

Naaah? Oh, you mean your idiotic treatments DIDN'T WORK <{}: ~ ( >

                            SUCCESS!

That's ABSURD.

Erwin was DUE for seizures on accHOWENTA you're
a dog abusin punk thug coward mental case, just like
HOWE I been tellin you for years, dale.

You mean 'anyHOWE,' dale, you pathetic piece of crap.

Naaaah?? HOWE COME do you suppHOWES Erwin would have seizures?

Oh, you mean, instead of simply NOT ABUSIN him nodoGdameneD more?

Ahhhh, you're in EXXXCELLENT company, dale~!

MOST of your MENTAL CASE pals dogs GOT THE
SAME PROBLEM for the SAME REASON, dale.

You mean, the "BASICS" bein, that they're CAUSED BY STRESS,
from ABUSE, JUST LIKE cruciate ligament failure, and that the
pharmacuticals you're usin to treat him are TOXIC and can be
replaced with a little Magneseum, Maganese, and vitamin B, dale?

            BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Subject: Re: Cruciate ligament tear
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008
HOWEDY greg,

"greg" <savepep...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:fm3kcd$va1$1@aioe.org...

dale is LIAR, a DOG ABUSER, a COWARD, a FRAUD, and
an ACTIVE ACCUTE CHRONIC LIFE LONG INCURABLE
MENTAL CASE, greg <{}: ~ ( >

Have you "researched" the CAUSE of it, greg?

It's CAUSED BY EMOTIONAL STRESS.

Have you looked into HOWE COME the dog, bein a
NATURAL BORN ATHLETE ruptures their ligaments?

Arthritis is likeWIZE, a STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE, a.k.a. The Puppy Wizard's Syndrome <{}: ~ ( >

Perhaps you don't understand, greg? You're bein FLEECED.

Most likely, just like HOWE you'll be facin the other knee goin
HOWETA WHACK, UNLESS you do sumpthin DIFFERENT.

You mean the difficulty of lockin your dog in a box for six weeks?

Well good for you, greg.

You got LUCKY, eh?

Your fellHOWE dog lovers BLAME the NO KILL shelters
for all the dogs they gotta MURDER, greg <{}: ~ ( >

I can GUARANTEE you didn't get WON cent from the dog lovers here.

Well then, you should meet chris williams <{}: ~ ) >

HOWEDY dale,

"Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com> wrote in message

Top postin is evidence of a self important inconsiderate
particularly selfish, ignorameHOWES, lazy, LHOWET,
dale. It causes readers to have to go searchin for attributes
and familiarize themselves with the discussion by scrollin
all the way DHOWEN the page pryor to gettin WIZE.

news:KIYdj.51131$5l3.35770@edtnps82...> "Greg" <savepep...@gmail.com>
wrote in message news:fl6dlc$boh$1@aioe.org...

But of curse.

"LUCK is for SUCKERS. NEVER make a SUCKER'S
bet," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY <{}: ~ ( >

You mean on accHOWENTA the posters here DON'T CARE, dale?

INDEED? Perhaps, in the interest of DISCLOSURE, you
should advise the poster that you are a aspiring veterinary
malpracticioner. Wouldn't you agree, dale?

You know all abHOWET surgery, do you, dale?

Perhaps pryor to talkin SURGERY you should be EXXXAMININ
the CAUSE of cruciate ligament DIS-EASE an focusing on the
CURE for the CONdition, otherWIZE the other leg will likely
need SURGERY after a while.

INDEEDY. Some cases HEEL up all on their own given
a EXXXCELLENT diet, rest, and apupriate EXXXORCISE.

INDEED? That's what the OP was askin abHOWET, dale.
You gonna offer a small donation to HEELP him HOWET?

And you know this based on WHAAAAT, dale? Oh, NHOWE
I remember, YOUR OWN DOG GOT THE SAME PROBLEM~!

You wrote:

Sat, Dec 15 2007 4:09 pm
Subject: Cruciate --- Looking for opinions on options.

1. TPLO - Pros -- Best available, quick recovery time, he likely
won't blow the other one while waiting for this one to heal.
Cons -- More expensive.

2. Don't know the name, but it involves stabilizing
the joint with a nylon cord.

Pros: Cheaper (my regular vet can do this one).

Cons: He's on the edge of what he likes to do weight wise.
Longer recovery time. Have to keep him quieter, longer
(he's a lab remember? )

Third option, is to do nothing. He's not really bothered by it, but
then
again he's pretty stoic (it took a while to even figure out that
something
was wrong...at first I thought the stiffness might be related to
another
problem he'd been having), so I wouldn't want to have him in pain and
not
know about it.

Any thoughts on things I might not have considered?

                      -------------------

Yeah. Here's a few THOUGHTS, dale. Ever seen a 3 legged dog?
Ever NOTICE they DON'T RUPTURE their ligament? HOWE
COME do dogs "rupture" their ligament while HEELIN from a
ruptured ligament surgery, yet they DON'T rupture the remainin
leg when a leg has been amputated?

THAT'S on accHOWENTA ruptured cruciate ligament DIS-EASE
is CAUSED BY STRESS, COMMERCIAL GARBAGE DIETS,
and SURGICAL SEXUAL MUTILATION <{}: ~ ( >

ANOTHER point you MIGHT wanna notice is your dog
is HYPERACTIVE from bein JERKED, CHOKED,
BRIBED, CRATED and INTIMDIATED:

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At UofOH,
That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And
Readily Be Done Using TLC.  Tender Loving Care Is At The
Root Of The Scientific Management Of Doggies.

"All animals learn best through play," Lorenz.

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVERY LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement. IOW,
emotions, not outside rewards, are what
reinforces any behavior," Ivan Pavlov.

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and
learning immediately deteriorated.

Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) are no more well
established in research than the various dynamic therapists.
Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation of programmed
systems for learning; 2) reinforcement; 3) cognitive dissonance;
and 4) motivation, MOST SURELY DEMOLISH the claims
of operant programers."

                        ----------------------

You're a PROVEN LYIN KNOW NUTHIN DOG ABUSIN
PUNK THUG COWARD ACTIVE ACCUTE CHRONIC
LIFE LONG INCURABLE MALIGNANT MALICIHOWES
MENTAL CASE an FRAUD.

REMEMBER, dale? I told you YOU CAN'T POST your
LIES ABUSE and IDIOCY here nodoGdameneD more.

REMEMBER, dale?

I ain't playin freakin grabass with you a$$HOWELS.

BWEEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

Dogs is NATURAL BORN ATHLETES, dale. HOWE COME
do you *(as a up an comin veterinary malpracticioner) suppHOWES
MOST of the DOG LOVER'S DOGS HERE GOT CRUCIATE
LIGAMENT FAILURE, dale?

Here's a HINT, dale: Cruciate ligament DIS-EASE is CAUSED
BY EMOTIONAL STRESS from you maggots jerkin chokin
shockin bribin cratin intimidatin an surgically sexually mutilatin
your dogs.

Well just WAIT a while, dale. The PHYSICAL DAMAGE
will ONLY GET WORSE so long as you CONtinue to jerk
an choke bribe crate and intimdiate your dog, dale.

BWEEEAAAHAAAHAAAHAAA~!~!~!

This will functionally DISCREDIT you:

HOWEDY dale you pathetic dog abusing mental case,

"Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com> wrote in message
news:c%rwg.160084$771.73269@edtnps89...

Your OPINION is IRRELEVENT dale. Apupriate
nutrition AIN'T a matter of PREFERENCE or
OPINION, it's a matter of SCIENTIFIC FACT.

So, let's talk FACTS, not OPINIONS.

You might wanna ask steve crane or gaubster
to substantiate any FACTS you ain't aware of.

Yeah, but you don't know NUTHIN abHOWET it.

DO YOU, dale, you freakin dog abusin ignorameHOWES.

You're puttin your 2 cents worth in on accHOWENT of
you like to think of yourself as a source of enlightenment,
a fHOWEntain of knowledge and all abHOWET nice guy.

You're a lyin dog abusing ignorameHOWES, dale, and you know it.

BRILLIANT.

Therefore you wouldn't TRY what you don't
know nuthin abHOWET.

You'd have to STUDY up on it, dale. Shouldn't be
hard for a geniHOWES like yourself, eh good friend?

"I don't know enough about doggy nutrition to trust myself"

You mean, folks who know SUMPTHIIN abHOWET it, dale?

"I don't know enough about doggy nutrition to trust myself"

You mean, based on your admitted lack of knowledges, eh dale?

"I don't know enough about doggy nutrition to trust myself"

This'll seem fittin, eh dale?:

"I don't know enough"

You AIN'T GOT no ETHICKS, dale, you're a lyin dog
abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long
term incurable mental case and your own posted case
history will prove it.

WON'T IT, dale.

You mean, given your superior management skills, dale?

HOWE COME would you WANT your dogs to hurt innocent
defenseless dumb critters, dale? HOWE abHOWET if you had
poisonHOWES toads at your HOWES? Would your dogs likely
eat them too, dale? Of curse they would, on accHOWENT of
you wouldn't know HOWE to train them NOT to, no MOORE
than you know anything else abHOWET dogs, dale, you dog
abusing ignorameHOWES <{) : ~ ( >

You're a mental case, dale.

That's irrelevent. You admit you "don't know enough
about doggy nutrition to trust myself"

No you ain't. OtherWIZE you'd LEARN abHOWET whoat
you don't know so you wouldn't look like a ignorameHOWES.

That's irrelevent, dale.

Sez you, dale?:

Seems you know lots MOORE abHOWET kitty nutrition than dogs:

"I don't know enough about doggy nutrition to trust myself"

You can't post your idiocy here abHOWETS nodoGdameneDMOORE.

HOWEDY dale,

Yeah. We hear all about that crap from dog abusing
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term
incurable mental cases like yourself who PREFER to
HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER innocent defenseless dumb
critters like you and your punk thug coward mental
case pals here on my forums PREFER, dale.

There AIN'T NO PROBLEM so long as we can SEE WHO HURTS
INTIMIDATES and MURDERS dogs like you and your punk thug
coward mental case pals, dale.

Nuthin works better than lookin up your posted case
histories on Google and other pubicly archived news
group readers to see just who the mentally ill lying
dog abusing punk thug cowards are, dale. The definition
of punk thug coward dog abusing mental case got your
picture next to it, dale.

You can't post here nomore, dale.

I just copied a few of your pryor posts of your
own dog compulsively eatin sh.t and destroying
your car and having chronic ear infections aka
The Puppy Wizard's Syndrom and you defending
murderin innocent dogs and considering gettin a
shock fence because you can't trust your own dog
when he ESCAPSES your abuse, you freakin lying dog
abusing MENTAL CASE.

That ain't gonna heelp, dale. I don't write for
the dog abusing mental cases like yourself, I
write so new posters will get WIZE to punks like
you and your murdering dog abusing coward pals
like amy dahl and the rest of your punk thug
coward pals.

I'm just gettin started, dale.

<snip idiocy>

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
From: "Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 04:12:26 GMT

Subject: Re: poop eater

Erwin likes to chow down on other animal's poop, but
he tends to leave dog poop alone. So its only really
a problem when we're out in the woods or he gets a
whiff of the cat's litter box (or the guinea pig, or
the rabbit).

Just got to make sure he doesn't kiss me afterwards...

Newsgroups: rec.audio.car
From: "Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com>
Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 05:09:38 GMT
Subject: Dog ate my face plate :(

Left the dog in the car for about 15 minutes after a long
car ride, and he decided my stereo face plate would make
a nice snack. Anyways, it still works some of the time, but
some times none of the buttons work, and sometimes only the
ones on the right hand side work, and sometimes the CD ejects
randomly. Anyways, its not an expensive stereo, so I'm not
too worried, but what I'm wondering what people know about
the interface between the face plate and the stereo itself?

As I said its a pretty cheap one, several years old (sony
something or other), so no fancy security features.

Is it likely just not making a good connection?

I assume it isn't worth it to try to locate a new face plate?

Dale

From: "Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com>
Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2005 16:23:16 GMT
Subject: Re: Invisible Fence cost?

For the 2.5 acres that we're on, we got an estimate
between 1500-1800 Canadian. I probably won't be going
for it though, as it isn't my house, and I don't think
I'll be here long enough to justify it. Traffic really
isn't bad here either, so not that much of a concern.

The collars were about $300 each.

I think weather it is worth it or not depends a great
deal on your exact situation. I know if we were in the
city with a fenced yard, I wouldn't be considering it.

You also have to make sure you do the proper training,
and even with the proper training, it isn't fool proof.

Recently (1:30am New Years Day) had a dog turn up on my
doorstep wearing only an invisible fence collar (why he
didn't have some other ID on him is anybody's guess, maybe
he ran out the front door or something...). I *think* this
dog belonged to the owner of the local IF franchise (so he
should know how to train his dog...).

In his defence, I don't know how long he's had the dog,
or how long he's been on the system. You do hear of dogs
that will never test the boundaries though once they are
trained on them (heard of a couple in here where the fence
was off for weeks without the dog noticing).

There is also a dog down the street, who will stand at
the edge of her fence line while her collar beeps away
at her, but not cross the line.

Dale

Newsgroups: alt.pets.dogs.labrador
From: "Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com>
Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 13:44:20 GMT
Subject: Re: I'm gonna get a puppy, I 'm gonna get a puppy, I 'm
gonna
get a puppy

Well I don't get the puppy for another 8 weeks, but there
should be some pics of the litter on the breeder's website
come this weekend. I am sooooo excited. Info on the mom and
pop is at http://www.labraharvest.homestead.com/litters.html

Dale

From: "Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com>
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:47:29 GMT
Local: Mon, Aug 23 2004 9:47 am
Subject: Cats and Dogs?

Just wondering how those of you who own cats and dogs
are doing. I am a little worried about Erwin (black lab)
and Sammy (small siamese type cat).

Erwin seems to enjoy Sammy's company, but I don't think
Sammy reciprocates.

Erwin seems to think he can play with Sammy like he would
another dog (flips him over, and goes after either he neck
or his belly). I don't think Erwin would intentionally hurt
the cat, but I don't know if Sammy can take his rough-housing.

Yesterday, Sammy's claw caught Erwin under the eyelid (the
eye looks fine), which worried me too, if that had got his
eye... Today Erwin seemed to be trying to swallow Sammy's
head whole.

I'm trying to let them sort it out as much as possible (and
have done since day one), but Erwin is getting bigger and
stronger, and I am a bit worried.

Dale

From: "Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 16:31:37 GMT
Subject: Allergic Reaction? Maybe?

Recently started Erwin on Eukanuba Fish and Potato vetrinary
hypo-allergenic diet. This was a response to ear 'issues' he'd
been having that we are hoping to track down. Anyways, since
starting on the new food, the ears do look better (although I
haven't been taking him swimming as much as usual, so I'm not
sure what the causal factor is), but he has developed some small
'bumps' on his lips (rougly 2mm across, and clustered).

They don't seem at all sensitive, but they aren't going away,
and at least one of the clusters has grown. The bumps are on
his lower lip, and and inside his upper lip.

I'll be probably be taking him to the vet tomorrow just to have
him looked at, but I was wondering if anyone here has seen the
same thing?

I was thinking it might be some kind of topical reaction to
the food (i.e. he gets it on his lips, and it causes a skin
reaction).

Anyone else seen something like this?

Dale

From: "Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 00:56:35 GMT
Subject: Re: staggering gait

Hey I learnt two new words today :).

Thanks.

Dale & Erwin.

From: "Dale Atkin" <labrad...@ibycus.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:27:50 GMT
Subject: Re: Oops...How do you deal with an oops?

Just to quote the American Heritage Dictionary:
eu·tha·na·sia n.

 1.. The act or practice of ending the life of an individual
suffering from a terminal illness or an incurable condition,
as by lethal injection or the suspension of extraordinary medical
treatment.

 2.. A quiet, painless death.

You'll notice that the secondary definition says nothing
about an illness etc. Further, I would note that I find
the term 'convenience killing' is somewhat of an abuse of
language as well. (at least as much as talking about Animal
Control's euthanasia rate.).

You are bending the language to suit your particular needs.

If we take the denotative definitions, the term 'convenience
killing' is perfectly valid, yes. But you have chosen language
that has many more connotations than that. I am not saying that
euthanizing a healthy animal is ever a positive thing, but we
don't live in a perfect world.

There are limited resources that shelters etc. have to care
for animals. If they didn't euthanize animals (and no I will
not use quotes), I would imagine that the conditions for the
remaining animals would be much worse as they tried to further
stretch their budget.  They are choosing the lesser of evils,
and in a sense are being merciful to the remaining animals, so
your definition of euthanasia (mercy killing), in a sense still
applies.

<off topic, mild rant>

This conversation reminds me of a time I posted a message in
a software forum, and made a comment about the demo version
of a program being 'free'. I had one guy jump down my throat,
because I wouldn't use his GNU definition of the word free (he
maintained that in order for software to be called 'free' the
source code had to be made available, and I should use the term
gratis instead).

The fact is, the purpose of language is communication, and
I object to the arbitrary redefinition of words (George Orwell
would be proud)

</off topic, mild rant>

Anyways, I'm not trying to start an argument, just wanted
to present a counter balancing viewpoint for Amy Dahl.

Dale

                Punishment Deranges Behavior.
        "NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
                        EXCEPT
                  To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

    And how do we know this aspect of his
    advice is right?

    Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
    His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

    (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
    few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
    ill-mannered, or just plain ill.­),

    --Marshall

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

   "We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
   Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
   God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
   Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent­,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts ­to
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer

Subject: < BEFORE ->  "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
                     No Good Charlatan,"

< AFTER ->  "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
           A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
           Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
           Dog Lovers.

          'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
          A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman

          =====================

<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names.  Naive is thinking that dilettante  dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey  (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools?  I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===========

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry,  I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University.  I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques.  Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT

Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."

HOWEDY People,

Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"

From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop

Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.

This is not negative reinforcement.  Negative means no.

Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;

Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;

Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;

The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;

Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .

There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? --  too aversive.

I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD.  Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.

NO PUNISHMENT.

Must pay attention to who is the animal?

His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog?  So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.

I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.

Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.

Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.

You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.

Fondly, Dr. Von

     From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
  The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST

It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.

Works like a charm.

My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.

Sorry that slipped my mind.

I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.

Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.

Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.

Seemed he learned through osmosis.

Nice side benefit there.

It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.

I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.

I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.

I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.

Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.

Mike

"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:

No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull.  She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.

Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..

she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.

Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing.  I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.

I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.

I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..

we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.

She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty.  So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.

One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.

two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.

And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..

actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.

She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people.  she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.

She also does her commands on cue..  and doesn't look for a treat.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

   You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals.  Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD.  They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired.  If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning.  Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis.  Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source.  "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition."  Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

       "Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
       news:

       I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
       dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
       I do not know what started the problem but he came
       aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
       snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
       and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
       ad I took him with me everywhere.

       At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
       Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
       clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
       it was not working on his aggression problem.

       I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
       trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
       They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
       and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
       suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
       working as he was becoming more aggressive.

       I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
       away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
       on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
       use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

       I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
       ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
       LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
       University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
       had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
       gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
       have the people stop until he could get in control using
       treats, and work on clicker training.

       At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
       the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
       would not come when I called him and would run away when
       I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
       neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
       hasn't trained her dog"

       I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
       were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
       were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
       said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
       say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
       responsible for him."

       *(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
       DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

       As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
       going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
       Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
       Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
       He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
       not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

       The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
       I had been working for 18 months!

       Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
       from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
       I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
       blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
       can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

       I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
       -the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
       looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
       on by.

       When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
       me like "you must be out of your mind"

       The results can make a believer!!!

       Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
       Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
       in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

       He just seemed to not notice any one.

       When people talked to him or ask his name he would
       look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

       I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
       enjoy life out in public.

       If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
       was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
       Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
       toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

       My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
       dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
       out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

       I know most people would have given up on him a long time
       ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
       but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

       I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

       ================================

       From: Linda Daniel
       To: Jerry Howe
       Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
       Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression

       Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
       to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
       save so many lives.  I know at times I was so frustrated I
       thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
       have but many people would have.  The world just does not
       know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
       solve problems.

       We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
       -just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
       you could meet us would be great.  I drive so I would be
       happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

       We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
       right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
       scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
       would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
       to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

       He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
       those on rollerblades!  I have always used a gentle leader
       in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
       grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

       Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
       stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose.  He never
       pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
       a hard time getting him going--at times  I think he could
       smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

       I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

       I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
       walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
       a problem with other people and dogs.

       I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
       to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
       around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
       treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
       coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
       and not move until we backed away-

       - can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
       until I get his attention with treats.

       They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
       but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
       him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
       sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
       to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
       heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

       ----------------------------------

                    ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
                    `6_ 6  )   `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)
                    (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'
                   _..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
                  ((('   (((-(((''  ((((

     |\            _.-'~~""'~`'~)
    /, ~-,__,,,.'~      ,-;;--''
   |,4) ./  '     ;    ;/'
  '-~~;'@        (   ; ;
  _.--''    _.-_..'  .;.'
 (,_..----''' (,..--''

  Meow

/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
('  ; ')  kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

 /),,/)
(  ; ' )  kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

 /),,/)
(   ; )  kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

   /)
(  *  ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
                 The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >

WELCOME to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizards'
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog, Child, Kat And Horse Training Method Manual
Forums <{); ~ ) >

I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
Amazing Grand Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard  <{) ; ~ )

Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely  Incredibly Freakin
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    SpHOWES Training Method Manual <{) ; ~ ) >

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http://relinkz.com/EffectiveNonPhysicalDogTraininAIN'TLUCK777It'sSCIENCEAtItsBEAST
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            Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

                         IT AIN'T PRETTY.
                            <{@); ~ } >

HOWEDY dale, you pathetic miserable stinkin rotten
lyin dog abusin top postin veterinary malpracticioner
WANNABE and active, accute, chronic, life long
incurable, malignant, maliciHOWES MENTAL CASE,

Erwin has steadily increased in his deblilitation since DAY WON.

That's ABSURD, dale.

There AIN'T NO SUCH THING as "arthritis". So called
arthritis is the body's response to a compromised auto-
immune system caused by toxic veterinary malpractice,
garbage commercial dog food and STRESS from abuse.

That's curiHOWES, ain't it, dale? NO WHERE in the medical
literature will we find "ARTHRITIS" presenting itself momentarily
and intermittently.

You mean 'anyHOWE', dale, you pathetic ignorameHOWES.

You'd been jerkin an chokin Erwin on your
pronged spiked pinch choke collar.

INDEED?

Seizures are CAUSED BY STRESS from ABUSE.

MOST of your fellHOWE dog lover's dogs here, have seizures.

That's ABSURD, dale.

Your dogs are DYIN from STRESS from ABUSE.

Critters CANNOT utilize the nutrition they take in due
to STRESS from MISHANDLING, therefore they get
glaucoma, "arthritis", seizures, Cushings, Addisons,
kidney / bladder stones, irritable BHOWEL syndrome,
amongst other DEATHLY symptoms like cruciate
ligament failure, which he's got already.

You mean 'anyHOWE', dale, you pathetic ignorameHOWES.

You're fixin to put Erwin on metacam, a DEATHLY pharmacutical.
IN FACT, a reader just posted that their own dog DIED from it.

You mean Erwin is fear aggressive. THAT TOO,
is CAUSED BY your MISHANDLING <{}: ~ ( >

Naaaah?

Where in the literature does it say "arthritis" happens occasionally?

That's INSANE, dale. If you fed your dog a fresh well
balanced WHOWELSOME diet and STOPPED JERKIN
an CHOKIN IT, Erwin would recover NEARLY INSTANTLY.

"SERENDIPITY", dale? The STRESS from the veterinary
EXXXAM triggered his SERENDIPITHOWES seizure.

You mean 'anyHOWE', dale, you pathetic ignorameHOWES.

WELCOME to the club, dale~! You're in EXXXCELLENT
company~! suja, sally, and matty's dogs are likeWIZE DYIN
from seizures, amongst many other of your pathetic miserable
stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin punk thug coward active
accute chronic life long incurable malignant mental case pal's
dogs.

BWEEEAAAHAAAAA~!~!~!

Seizures are caused by STRESS, not a lack of TOXIC phenobarbital.

Perhaps you should join the seizure group on YAHOO?

You mean, the BASICS that they can be EXXXTINGUISHED
NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOIN EVERY THING
EXXXACTLY PRECISELY OPPOSITE of HOWE you and
your pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin
punk thug coward active accute chronic life long incurable
malignant mental case pals PREFER <{}: ~ ( >