Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
Home
Discussion Groups
Mammals
FerretsGuinea PigsHamstersRabbitsRats
Aquaria
GeneralMarine ReefFreshwaterPlantsCichlidsGoldfish
Birds
BirdsParrots
Miscellaneous
Animal HealthPet Loss
PetKB.com
Contact UsLink To UsSearch & Site Map

Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / February 2008



Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Metacam and Phenobarb?

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
Dale Atkin - 18 Feb 2008 00:42 GMT
Anyone heard of those two drugs not getting along well together? I think
I'll withhold the metacam until I can talk to my vet about it on Tuesday,
and see what his opinion is. I know when Erwin initially went on the
phenobarb, the vet told me he didn't think there would be any problems with
the two together, but it seems when I give him both together it makes his
joint symptoms worse, not better (today he had difficulty standing up...
never had that before).

He's been getting Metacam every other day, and phenobarb twice a day. I
noticed after the last dose of Metacam that he seemed more uncoordinated
than normal, but I chalked that up to the phenobarb levels rising. He got
better the next day, and then today I gave him his metacam, and he seemed to
get worse.

Dale
buglady - 18 Feb 2008 13:12 GMT
> Anyone heard of those two drugs not getting along well together? I think
> I'll withhold the metacam until I can talk to my vet about it on Tuesday,
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> better the next day, and then today I gave him his metacam, and he seemed to
> get worse.

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_meloxicam.html
If meloxicam is used concurrently with phenobarbital, it is especially
important that appropriate liver monitoring be performed. These two drugs
interact such that neither may work well if they are used together.
buglady - 18 Feb 2008 13:20 GMT
> Anyone heard of those two drugs not getting along well together?

http://apt.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1892%2F0891-
6640(2000)014%5B0157%3AEOLPTO%5D2.3.CO%3B2&ct=1

http://www.vetcontact.com/en/art.php?a=985&t=
Spot - 18 Feb 2008 13:41 GMT
Dale,

I've never used the two together but as a precaution I'd stop the Metcam and
have labs drawn on his liver & kidney to be sure it's not affecting them.
It's not a hard on them as Rimadyl but it can cause probelms.

Celeste

> Anyone heard of those two drugs not getting along well together? I think
> I'll withhold the metacam until I can talk to my vet about it on Tuesday,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Dale
Dale Atkin - 18 Feb 2008 15:52 GMT
> Dale,
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Celeste

I'll talk to them on Tuesday about getting this done (its a long weekend
here in Alberta... Family Day today). Erwin seems better this morning (no
metacam). Adverse effects are very much on my mind, as Erwin's (full) big
brother died after being prescribed Rimadyl (liver failure).

Dale
Dale Atkin - 20 Feb 2008 05:17 GMT
Got the following from a friend of mine in my e-mail (who got it off another
discussion board). Thought I'd repost it here. (hope the original authors
have no objection)

Dale

<< I'd like to throw in an NSAID for possible chemoprevention, but have some
worries about the liver due to the phenobarb >>

Normally, phenobarbital (PB) increases elimination of xenobiotics
(drugs with toxic metabolites) via the cytochrome P 450 pathway.
However, there is evidence that many NSAIDS increase liver toxicity

when used with PB. Some may be used that appear to have less toxic
potential. In veterinary medicine...perhaps the newer coxibs fit that
criteria however, they are not all the same as well.

Reasons:
Phenobarbital induces the metabolism of drugs (Cytochrome P-450 pathway)that
are substrates of CYP2C, CYP2D, and CYP3A; however, Phenobarbital is
eliminated predominantly by CYP2C9-and CYP2C19-dependent hepatic metabolism.
Many NSAIDS are extensively metabolized by CYP2C19 and could potentially
influence phenobarbital elimination by acting as an alternate substrate for
this isoenzyme. Hence some NSAIDs may combine with PB to induce
hepatotoxicity. Some NSAIDS ie sulindac, naproxen, ketoprofen, diclofenac,
rofecoxib, and etoricoxib have little effect on CYP2 metabolism and may be

less toxic when used with PB. Others like: ibuprofen, indomethacin,
flurbiprofen, celecoxib, valdecoxib, lornoxicam, tenoxicam, meloxicam, and
piroxicam have more of an impact and expect to be more toxic.

In addition...the use of high dose fish oils seems to
down-regulate cytochrome P-450 gene expression.

Hence, one can see a benefit of such usage.

Lester Mandelker DABVP, FAAVPT

" Impact of CYP2C9 genotype on pharmacokinetics: are all

cyclooxygenase inhibitors the same? "

Rodrigues AD.

Drug Metabolosm, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Princeton, NJ 08543, USA.
david.rodrigues@bms.com

The market withdrawals of rofecoxib (Vioxx) and valdecoxib (Bextra) have
focused considerable attention on the side effect profiles of cyclooxygenase
(COX) inhibitors. As a result, attempts will be made to identify risk
factors in the hope that physicians might be able to ensure patient safety.
At first glance, CYP2C9 genotype might be considered a risk factor because
many COX inhibitors are CYP2C9 substrates in vitro. This observation has led
some to hypothesize that a reduction in clearance, in subjects expressing
variant forms of the enzyme (e.g., CYP2C9*1/*3 or CYP2C9*3/*3 genotype),
will lead to increased exposure and a greater risk of cardiovascular or
gastrointestinal side effects. For any drug, however, one has to consider
all clearance pathways. Therefore, a number of COX inhibitors were surveyed
and it was determined that CYP2C9 plays a relatively minor role in the
overall clearance (<or=20% of the dose) of sulindac, naproxen, ketoprofen,
diclofenac, rofecoxib, and etoricoxib. CYP2C9 genotype would have no
clinically meaningful impact on the pharmacokinetics of these drugs. In
contrast, CYP2C9 genotype is expected to impact the clearance of ibuprofen,
indomethacin, flurbiprofen, celecoxib, valdecoxib, lornoxicam, tenoxicam,
meloxicam, and piroxicam. However, even when CYP2C9 is a major determinant
of clearance, it is necessary to consider CYP2C8 genotype (e.g., ibuprofen)
and, possibly, CYP3A4 activity (e.g., celecoxib, valdecoxib, and meloxicam)
also.

" N-6 and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids down-regulate cytochrome
P-450 2B1 gene expression induced by phenobarbital in primary rat
hepatocytes. "
Li CC, Lii CK, Liu KL, Yang JJ, Chen HW.

Department of Nutrition, Chung Shan Medical University, Taichung 402,
Taiwan.

In mammals, polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs) act not only as an important
energy source, but also as substrates for cellular membrane and hormone
formation. They also play key roles in cellular metabolism and gene
regulation. The objective of the present study was to determine whether
individual n-6 and n-3 PUFAs affect cytochrome P-450 2B1 (CYP 2B1)
expression induced by phenobarbital (PB) in primary rat hepatocytes. We used
100-microM arachidonic acid (AA), linoleic acid, eicosapentaenoic acid and
docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) to test this hypothesis. Phenobarbital-induced
CYP 2B1 expression was down-regulated by n-6 and n-3 PUFAs, especially AA
and DHA. Prostaglandin (PG) E2 but not PGE3 was found to down-regulate
PB-induced CYP 2B1 expression. The cyclooxygenase inhibitor indomethacin (20
microM) attenuated the down-regulation of CYP 2B1 gene expression by n-6 and
n-3 PUFAs induced by PB, and maximal attenuation was found in the AA-treated
group. We also studied the PGE2 downstream cyclic adenosine monophosphate
(cAMP)-dependent protein kinase A (PKA) pathway to determine its role in the
down-regulation of CYP 2B1 expression by AA with the use of 0.4 mM of the
adenylate cyclase inhibitor 9-(tetrahydro-2'-furyl)adenine] (SQ22536) and
7.5 microM of the PKA inhibitor H-89. Both inhibitors attenuated the
down-regulation of CYP 2B1 expression by AA. These results suggest that
PB-induced CYP 2B1 expression is down-regulated by n-6 and n-3 PUFAs through
different pathways. Prostaglandin E2 and the cAMP-dependent PKA pathway were
involved in AA down-regulation of CYP 2B1 expression, whereas the
down-regulation by n-3 PUFAs is not fully understood yet and the
glucocorticoid receptor/constitutive androstane receptor/retinoid X receptor
signal transduction cascade can be involved.

>> Dale,
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Dale
Dale Atkin - 26 Feb 2008 19:21 GMT
Just an update. The phenobarb and metacam seem to be playing together a bit
better now. I'm administering the metacam a bit more sparingly, and giving
it half way between the doses of phenobarb. It seems to help (without the
metacam, he was seeming to revert to his grouchier, growlier self when we're
out... kind of like a Jekyll and Hyde thing). Also no seizures since we've
been on the phenobarb, so that's a good thing. His levels were right where
they were supposed to be as well, when we tested them last week.

Dale

> Anyone heard of those two drugs not getting along well together? I think
> I'll withhold the metacam until I can talk to my vet about it on Tuesday,
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Dale
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2009 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.