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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / August 2008These Groups a waste of time
Don't bother posting to a.m.v or rec.p.c.h+b The are a waste of time. No really knowledgeable answers; lots of flamers and unanswered posts. Lots of info on the web, just thought I'd save others the trouble of posting here, these are crap groups. > Don't bother posting to a.m.v or rec.p.c.h+b The are a waste of time. No > really knowledgeable answers; lots of flamers and unanswered posts. Lots > of info on the web, just thought I'd save others the trouble of posting > here, these are crap groups. We respect your opinion. Now please see yourself out.  Signature8^)~ Sue (remove the x to email) ~~~~ http://wacvet.blogspot.com/ http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=wacvet http://www.myspace.com/wacvet22 I have to agree. Anything in this life is what you make of it. Sure, there are a lot of unwanted posts, but, there is also a wealth of info available from the two DVM's I've just read posts from regarding VET. school texts, etc. And this is just a tiny aspect of animal care. Many posts do go unanswered, oh well. >> Don't bother posting to a.m.v or rec.p.c.h+b The are a waste of time. No >> really knowledgeable answers; lots of flamers and unanswered posts. Lots >> of info on the web, just thought I'd save others the trouble of posting >> here, these are crap groups. > >We respect your opinion. Now please see yourself out. It does seem there are very few answers from any veterinarians or similarly trained people. > Don't bother posting to a.m.v or rec.p.c.h+b The are a waste of time. <snip> > It does seem there are very few answers from any veterinarians or > similarly trained people. Idiots abused the vets and ran them off. What would you expect? >> Don't bother posting to a.m.v or <snip insane cat group reference here> The are a waste of time. > <snip> Abused the vets? I find that very hard to believe. Are you having a bout of paranoia perhaps? >> It does seem there are very few answers from any veterinarians or >> similarly trained people. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> >> <snip> >Abused the vets? I find that very hard to believe. Are you having a bout of >paranoia perhaps?... LOL! Well, you just made one thing perfectly clear: you do not know Diddy. But thanks for the chuckle. _______________________ "Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein > It does seem there are very few answers from any veterinarians or > similarly trained people. My husband is a vet. Working 50-70 hours a week and on-call 24/7, he's lucky if he gets to his personal e-mail twice a week. Compassion fatigue and burnout is a huge thorn in vet med. When you come home you just need to turn it off and be with your family. -Sharon "Sharon Too" <askformyaddy@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in news:29SdnddYeuUCyBPVnZ2dnUVZ_qDinZ2d@posted.dundkirkandfredoniatelephon e >> It does seem there are very few answers from any veterinarians or >> similarly trained people. > My husband is a vet. Working 50-70 hours a week and on-call 24/7, he's > lucky if he gets to his personal e-mail twice a week. Compassion > fatigue and burnout is a huge thorn in vet med. When you come home you > just need to turn it off and be with your family. Maybe that's why there are so many mentally unstable, dimwitted vets? Most of these people could not make it in human medicine, they would be flunked out during real world training. Human doctors work as many or more hours and you don't see them acting unprofessionally usually, as you do so many veterinarians. You don't see them engaging in the profit motivated treatment as often either. You don't see the level of complaints against them to state licensing boards either, as you see in veterinary medicine. This is particularily poignant since most vet boards do NOTHING to discipline bad vets. This is because CHARACTER plays a large role in admitting physicians to medical school. And CHARACTER/PERSONALITY (the right stuff) plays a big part in their ever getting a chance to practice medicine. Also physicians have a code of ethics that far surpasses anything that veterinarians practice. Vet schools need to do more to screen out candidates that do not have the right stuff to become veterinarians. GPA and other grade based scores are not enough. Why must animals suffer at the hands of incompetent unprofessional actors? Oh yeah,they are just animals. > -Sharon <snipped> And one wonders why the vets and pet professionals stay away from here. ><snipped> > >And one wonders why the vets and pet professionals stay away from here. No kidding. I've worked in medical malpractice defense for over 25 years, and anyone who thinks there are more complaints against vets than against human physicians - or that human physicians always act professionally - is nuts. Mustang Sally >><snipped> >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > than against human physicians - or that human physicians always act > professionally - is nuts. I don't need to be a shyster lawyer (another profession that ranks in Gallup polls right next to drug dealers in public respect/esteem) to know in my many searches for complaints against physicians, I have visited or reviewed, I rarely find licensing complaints against physicians. However, with vets, approx. 80% of the vets I research have licensing complaints against them; mostly serious, because minor complaints are ignored by the boards. You obviously don't know how to do a good internet search, because, IF you DID, you'd see how many more web pages are devoted to outing bad veterinarians. Also, maybe if you shysters weren't so greedy and lazy we'd have less medical mistakes, since you mostly (like pigs at a trough) like to gobble the cream on the top and leave any thought of justice well behind your thirst for money. You profession's idea of justice calculates as to what tax bracket you think any case may elevate you'all to. > Mustang Sally >>><snipped> >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >You profession's idea of justice calculates as to what tax bracket you >think any case may elevate you'all to. I'm not a shyster or a lawyer, but you're an a.shole. Mustang Sally sighthounds & siberians <x@ncweb.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: > I'm not a shyster or a lawyer, but you're an a.shole. And anonymous, or at least attempting to be. No matter the attitude, I have some respect for those who put a name behind their words. Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. > sighthounds & siberians <x@ncweb.com> said in > alt.med.veterinary: > >> I'm not a shyster or a lawyer, but you're an a.shole. I'm gonna identify myself to a bunch of strangers so they can retaliate against me? You must take me for one of these idiots who call themselves professional at most veterinary clinics. Maybe you should apply? > And anonymous, or at least attempting to be. No matter the > attitude, I have some respect for those who put a name behind > their words. NOYB <NOYB@NOYB.com> said in alt.med.veterinary: > I'm gonna identify myself to a bunch of strangers so they > can retaliate against me? No problem that you don't want to stand behind your words (the owner of noyb.com might), though your anonymity certainly colours my opinion of your opinions. While I respect those anonymous posters who have built up their credibility by using cogent argumentation, that ain't you. > You must take me for one of these > idiots who call themselves professional at most veterinary > clinics. All I can say is: "Huh?" > Maybe you should apply? Ibid. Signature--Matt. Rocky's a Dog. >>>><snipped> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I'm not a shyster or a lawyer, but you're an a.shole. " No kidding. I've worked in medical malpractice defense for over 25 > years," -seems to indicate you're either a lawyer or some lackey that > works for them. In any case, you can throw names at me all day long, does not dispell the fact that your are wrong and I am right. Physicians have nowhere nears the number of consumer complaints that vets do. Physicians are trained in the sanctity of the physician patient relationship, most vets I know act more like disgruntled plumbers. Think about the reason why many people want to work with animals. It is often because they cannot effectively work with people; that is definitely the case with veterinarians in my experience. Have only met one or two that had their heads screwed on right, i.e.-had good social skills, were professional and competent. Very small percentage. And the staff they hire smacks of employees recruited from drop-outs at a local junior college or beauty school rejects. May be different in your neck of the woods, but that is the way it is here where I live. > Mustang Sally >"Sharon Too" <askformyaddy@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in >news:29SdnddYeuUCyBPVnZ2dnUVZ_qDinZ2d@posted.dundkirkandfredoniatelephon [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >veterinary medicine. ...Also physicians have a code of >ethics that far surpasses anything that veterinarians practice. Hmm. Another comedian in the crowd. Just how many "mentally unstable, dimwitted vets" do you think there are? I haven't encountered any of them. Do you realize how stupid it is to say, "Most of these people could not make it in human medicine, they would be flunked out during real world training." Wrong, most of these people have a greater affinity for animals than for humans; and you demonstrate one of the reasons why. And vet raining is definitely "real world." LOL My physician can speculate, guess and be unprofessional within reason: my vet does not have that luxury! If a vet engages in "profit motivated treatment," its because the pet owner is so ignorant and unprepared, he practically deserves the treatment. You obviously have a vast wealth of inside information. So, please, cite a verifiable source for your contention that vets receive more complaints than human doctors. While you're at it, prove that "physicians have a code of ethics that far surpasses anything that veterinarians practice." We're a fair lot here; enlighten us, please. ________________________ Whatever it takes. >Do you realize how stupid it is to say, "Most of these people could not >make it in human medicine, they would be flunked out during real world >training." Wrong, most of these people have a greater affinity for >animals than for humans; and you demonstrate one of the reasons why. And >vet raining is definitely "real world." LOL I don't know if it's still the case but about a decade ago it was more difficult to get into veterinary school than it was to get into medical school. SignatureMelinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore@panix.com Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community >I don't know if it's still the case but about a decade ago >it was more difficult to get into veterinary school than it >was to get into medical school. That's correct! I remember that time. It appears to be true now. Of course, part of the explanation is the ratio of applicants per respective type and number of schools. For our 129 medical schools, there were 138 new enrollments per school. For our 28 vet schools, there were 82 new enrollments per school. From: http://www.uc.edu/sas/preproadvising/prevet.html IS IT DIFFICULT TO GET INTO VETERINARY SCHOOL? Yes. For the 2007 school year, approximately 5740 applicants vied for fewer than 2300 available seats. From: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos076.htm There are 28 colleges in 26 States that meet accreditation standards set by the Council on Education of the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA). From: http://www.medicalschooladmission.com/ The number of first-year students enrolling at the nation's 129 medical schools in the fall of 2007 grew to a record 17,759. ________________________ Whatever it takes. > From: http://www.uc.edu/sas/preproadvising/prevet.html > IS IT DIFFICULT TO GET INTO VETERINARY SCHOOL? > Yes. For the 2007 school year, approximately 5740 applicants vied for > fewer than 2300 available seats. Wow, that's a pretty good ratio! In Alberta the numbers for 2008 were ~200 applicants for 50 positions. Don't know what the numbers were for human medicine. For the record, I don't know of a single vet or vet student that is a failed human doctor (I for one have never had *any* interest in treating people), and I've found less to complain about with most vets than I've seen in some human medical practitioners. (my apologies for feeding the trolls (not you, the OP), but I had to comment on those numbers.) Dale >> From: http://www.uc.edu/sas/preproadvising/prevet.html >> IS IT DIFFICULT TO GET INTO VETERINARY SCHOOL? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > (my apologies for feeding the trolls (not you, the OP), but I had to > comment on those numbers.) This kind of shows how you think. Anyone who disagrees with you is a "troll". I'm not here to elicit replies from others here. Just to shed some illumination on their obvious lack of perception of the way things are, not the way they want them to be. See my later post, as those that choose to work with animals are automatically suspect as lacking the ability to work with and communicate with people. This REALLY shows in most all of the vets I have known. They lack the ability to relate to, communicate with and thus help pet owner. That is one reason why there is so many complaints about veterinarians on the net. That is also why they are forever SHOUTING in their ads how much they CARE and LOVE people and animals-they are overcompensating for their own knowledge that they are lacking precisely in those areas. > Dale >>> From: http://www.uc.edu/sas/preproadvising/prevet.html >>> IS IT DIFFICULT TO GET INTO VETERINARY SCHOOL? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > This kind of shows how you think. Anyone who disagrees with you is a > "troll". I'm not here to elicit replies from others here. Sorry, have you been in this conversation before? I don't see it... Perhaps if you would stick to one anonymizing handle it would be easier for others to follow the conversation (assuming you are the OP, and you've made some follow up comments, as per the post I'm replying to, that makes a minimum of 3 handles in one conversation, which you have to admit is enough to confuse just about anyone) If the OP was not a troll, I do appologize. Let me ask you though (assuming you are the original poster by another name), would you ever walk in to a room of people hanging out, chatting, sharing information and say "Don't bother hanging out here, its a waste of time. No one here knows anything. This is a crap place to hang out" and expect to be taken seriously? Would you be overly surprised if people thought you were trying to pick a fight? Dale >>>> From: http://www.uc.edu/sas/preproadvising/prevet.html >>>> IS IT DIFFICULT TO GET INTO VETERINARY SCHOOL? [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > to, that makes a minimum of 3 handles in one conversation, which you > have to admit is enough to confuse just about anyone) You don't need to know who I am to follow the argument, now do you? You don't know much about the internet or usenet do you? > If the OP was not a troll, I do appologize. It's nothing, I just chalked it up to another wannabe vet with a thought disorder, ha! > Let me ask you though (assuming you are the original poster by another > name), would you ever walk in to a room of people hanging out, > chatting, sharing information and say "Don't bother hanging out here, > its a waste of time. No one here knows anything. This is a crap place > to hang out" and expect to be taken seriously? Would you be overly > surprised if people thought you were trying to pick a fight? Was just pointing out the obvious to anyone familiar with the usenet. It IS a crap group compared to many usenet groups, with virtually no participation by veterinarians. It think it's because they cannot CONTROL the usenet the way most of them try to control their shady practices. Also they cannot hide behind their office staff here. Here's a couple links for textbooks you asked for for you and others self-analysis before they go into vet medicine. Maybe you'll be different, as there are a few good vets out there, just very few, percentage-wise. http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2008/07/18/book-review-antisocial-personali ty-disorder-a-practitioners-guide-to-comparative-treatments/ http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P3-70548211.html http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/gately/bkpeter.htm There, I think that more closely meets your definition of trolling. ;-) > Dale > There, I think that more closely meets your definition of trolling. ;-) Pats troll gently on head and moves on. Dale HOWEDY Dale_Atkins_NOT@wannabevet.org, THANK YOU~! Welcome to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual Forums And Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory. I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of Trainin an Research <{}'; ~ ) > I've got forty five years of EXXXPERIENCE raising and training mostly giant breed working dogs for families and security specializing in temperament and behavior problems and protection <{}: ~ ) > Here's your own FREE COPY of The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Training Method Manual: http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard/777witsendmanual.htm The actual INSTRUCTION begins on the third page "*777* Wits' End Method", abHOWET 1/4 down the page starting with "Here's ALL the INFORMATION you NEED" and my phone # and instructions to CALL ANY TIME. There you will find ALL the FREE information you need to pupperly handle raise and train your pets and family. Just follow the instructions PRECISELY and ASK me if you need any additional FREE HEELP <{}': ~ ) > You'll likeWIZE find ETHICAL nutrition and heelth care practices taught on the heelth page *(last link on the left side) of my website. dale is a viciHOWES pathetic miserable stinkin rotten lyin animal murderin cretin like most of the rest of these pathetic ignorameHOWESES whom I've IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED an DISCREDITED as LIARS FRAUDS CON / SCAM / RIP OFF ARTISTS, veterinary malpracticioners and ACTIVE ACUTE CHRONIC LIFE-LONG INCURABLE MENTAL CASES <{}: ~ ( > In Love And Light, I Remain Respectfully, Humbly Yours, The WORLD'S CRUELEST Trainer, Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply A-M-A-Z-I-N-G M-A-J-E-S-T-I-C G-R-A-N-D M-A-S-T-E-R Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Ferret, Goat, Monkey SpHOWES And Horsey Wizard <{) ;~ ) > HOWE MAY I SERVE YOU <{}; ~ ) > Sincerely, Jerry Howe, Director of Research, Human And Animal Behavior Forensic Sciences Research Laboratory, BIOSOUND Scientific, Director of Training, Wits' End Dog Training 1611 24th St Orlando, FL 32805 Phone: 1-407-425-5092 (Call ANY TIME) http://www.freewebs.com/thesimplyamazingpuppywizard E-mail: Human_And_Animal_Behavior_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory @HotMail.Com Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory @HotMail.Com TheAmazingPuppyWizard @Mail.Com >>>>> From: http://www.uc.edu/sas/preproadvising/prevet.html >>>>> IS IT DIFFICULT TO GET INTO VETERINARY SCHOOL? [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > >> Dale >>Do you realize how stupid it is to say, "Most of these people could >>not make it in human medicine, they would be flunked out during real >>world training." Wrong, most of these people have a greater affinity >>for animals than for humans; and you demonstrate one of the reasons >>why. And vet raining is definitely "real world." LOL IRRELEVANT. Just because you need better grades and scores to get into some school does not make you a good person, with good motivations, nor even good veterinarian. Only means you climbed to the top of the grade heap. I was not talking about admission to schools but the flunking out of mentally unsuitable candidates during clinical training, which empirically is obvious by looking at the crop of vets practicing here. > I don't know if it's still the case but about a decade ago > it was more difficult to get into veterinary school than it > was to get into medical school. >IRRELEVANT. Just because you need better grades and scores to get into >some school does not make you a good person, with good motivations, nor >even good veterinarian. Just as repeated assertions don't constitute evidence of any sort. SignatureMelinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - shore@panix.com Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community >>"Sharon Too" <askformyaddy@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in news:29SdnddYeuUCyBPVnZ2dnUVZ_qDinZ2d@posted.dundkirkandfredoniatelepho >>n ...When you come home you just need to turn it off and be with your >>family. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>in veterinary medicine. ...Also physicians have a code of >>ethics that far surpasses anything that veterinarians practice. > Hmm. Another comedian in the crowd. Just how many "mentally unstable, > dimwitted vets" do you think there are? I haven't encountered any of > them. You don't live where I do then. Back in my home city, I had respect for veterinarians, because I knew a very good one. Competent, would treat even if the person could not afford. But that was back in bizarro world where things actually had a moral value, and "professional" meant more than something veterinarians patted themselves on the back with in their yellow page ads-usually when they say this they are the opposite. > Do you realize how stupid it is to say, "Most of these people could > not make it in human medicine, they would be flunked out during real [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > My physician can speculate, guess and be unprofessional within reason: > my vet does not have that luxury! Whose the comedian? Know how to do a google search? Guess not, because if you did you'd see tons of documentation on the lack of state licensing board action against bozo vets. In many states. Serious complaints resulting in pet deaths. Not to mention many many web pages put up specifically to out bad vets. > If a vet engages in "profit motivated treatment," its because the pet > owner is so ignorant and unprepared, he practically deserves the > treatment. Sure because the same greedy ones like to take advantage of naive consumers who believe their lieing ads and self-"reviews" on the internet, designed to get them to open their wallets/purses. No standards of professionalism, no ethics, no scruples. Profit is the name of the game. > You obviously have a vast wealth of inside information. So, please, > cite a verifiable source for your contention that vets receive more > complaints than human doctors. While you're at it, prove that > "physicians have a code of ethics that far surpasses anything that > veterinarians practice." We're a fair lot here; enlighten us, please. Gee, thanks, I think (do I detect a hint of condescention). It's called the Hippocratic Oath. No such thing, not even something close to it among veterinarians. If you are patient you will have answers and documentation to all the questions you have raised soon, :-) > ________________________ > Whatever it takes. >... >Whose the comedian? Know how to do a google search? Guess not,... >Gee, thanks, I think (do I detect a hint of condescention). It's called >the Hippocratic Oath. No such thing, not even something close to it >among veterinarians... *You* are the comedian. I use a variety of search engines. In fact, I found something you stated does not exist. From: http://www.goodnewsforpets.com/Articles.asp?ID=368 The American Veterinary Medical Association adopted the following oath in 1969: "Being admitted to the profession of veterinary medicine, I solemnly swear to use my scientific knowledge and skills for the benefit of society through the protection of animal health, the relief of animal suffering, the conservation of livestock resources, the promotion of public health, and the advancement of medical knowledge. I will practice my profession conscientiously, with dignity, and in keeping with the principles of veterinary medical ethics. I accept as a lifelong obligation the continual improvement of my professional knowledge and competence." Source: American Veterinary Medical Association I agree there is good and bad everywhere, including the vet's office. That's why much of the responsibility for the of one's pet rests on the pet's owner. I do not expect my vet to know everything; however, I expect myself to know enough to help my vet, and to speak for my pet. My vet's degree doesn't make him a great vet: me, doing my home work, makes him great. My appreciation and respect for my vet, and my love and devotion to my dog, is why we arrive at our appointments prepared. Period. Incidentally, no, you did not detect "condescension"? LOL That doesn't begin to describe what you detected. ________________________ Whatever it takes. >>... >>Whose the comedian? Know how to do a google search? Guess not,... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > *You* are the comedian. I use a variety of search engines. In fact, I > found something you stated does not exist. You misinterpreted my meaning. I did not mean oaths did not exist, but only that they are a)very weak compared to the hippocratic oath and b) aren't followed by most veterinarians, nor even by the schools that hand out their diplomas. There are still many doctors who follow the hippocratic oath, but veterinarians aren't really doctors of course. I stand by my original assertion. Most of these vets would flunk out of physician clinical training. They simply do not have the "right stuff" as defined earlier. As I told you earlier, stay tuned, the best is yet to come, all will be revealed in due time. > From: http://www.goodnewsforpets.com/Articles.asp?ID=368 > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of animal suffering, the conservation of livestock resources, the > promotion of public health, and the advancement of medical knowledge. (unless of course it hurts my profits,bruises my fragile ego or conflicts with my 9-5 schedule) > I will practice my profession conscientiously, with dignity, and in > keeping with the principles of veterinary medical ethics. (what principles, haha, what ethics?) > I accept as a lifelong obligation the continual improvement of my > professional knowledge and competence." (really, like all vets who graduated 20+ years ago, who keep golfers' hours, and only do the minumum needed to get re-licensed?) > Source: American Veterinary Medical Association > > I agree there is good and bad everywhere, including the vet's office. Bring on the malpractice lawyers. Prices will go up, but at least we will get some accountability in return and eliminate all the bad actors who think of themselves as doctors in this field. <drivel snipped> |
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