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Pet Forum / Miscellaneous / Animal Health / August 2008



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Dangers for cats eating mice that have ingested decon

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John2005 - 09 Aug 2008 01:59 GMT
Hi everyone,

I would like to ask if someone could please help me with the following
question.

If a cat eats a mouse that has died from ingesting Decon, could the
cat get sick or even die ? What would likely be the outcome ?

Thanks
John
Sandy, DVM - 10 Aug 2008 03:48 GMT
Assuming DeCon contains the active ingredient called warfarin, then the
risk of secondary poisoning to a dog or cat is small. I added the
assumption, because sometimes people call all rat poisons DeCon (like
Coke for cola/soda/pop or Kleenex for any tissue). If the active
ingredient is one of the second or third generation anticoagulants, such
as bromadiolone or brodificoum, then secondary intoxication is much more
likely. If there's a chance a cat has eaten a mouse killed by any
anticoagulant other than warfarin, I'd recommend testing the cat for
clotting problems and treating with Vitamin K if needed.

Hope this helps,

Sandy, DVM

> Hi everyone,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Thanks
> John
John2005 - 11 Aug 2008 23:08 GMT
Hi Sandy,

Thanks for your reply.

I would appreciate your help with a few more questions if possible.

My original question was directed at Decon and not rat poison in
general. Is Decon probably the safest rat or mouse poison to use ?

If DeCon with Warfarin is used, can you give your best guess as to
what the chances are percentage wise, that a cat could be harmed by
ingesting a mouse that had died from ingesting DeCon ?

How fast does the DeCon generally take to either immobilize and/or
kill the mouse ?  My main concern would be with a mouse ingesting
DeCon under a house crawlspace, and then going back outside the house
where a cat could get it.

My concern with mice is that the would eat through furnace and central
air conditioning plastic flex vents or eat wiring insulation. How
likely is this ?

Are there any other effective and safe options for mice control, do
those sonic devices you plug into the wall outlet to repel rodents do
anything or are they just a scam ?

Thanks for your help.
John
Sandy, DVM - 13 Aug 2008 03:57 GMT
> My original question was directed at Decon and not rat poison in
> general. Is Decon probably the safest rat or mouse poison to use ?
>  
If you must use a poison, I guess that one is OK. Personally, I use live
traps and take the critters to a nearby park and let them loose on the
other side of the river. Might not be ideal, but I have pretty good karma:-)
> If DeCon with Warfarin is used, can you give your best guess as to
> what the chances are percentage wise, that a cat could be harmed by
> ingesting a mouse that had died from ingesting DeCon ?
>  
I think the chance is slim if the active ingredient is warfarin.
> How fast does the DeCon generally take to either immobilize and/or
> kill the mouse ?  My main concern would be with a mouse ingesting
> DeCon under a house crawlspace, and then going back outside the house
> where a cat could get it.
>  
I don't know the answer to this question. I would say it takes days for
a mouse to die after ingesting an anticoagulant rodenticide. You can
guarantee that a mouse that ingests the bait will be wandering around
the environment before it dies of internal bleeding. It takes days for
dogs and cats to start bleeding internally after ingestion of these baits.
> My concern with mice is that the would eat through furnace and central
> air conditioning plastic flex vents or eat wiring insulation. How
> likely is this ?
>  
I don't know. I know they've had a ball in my beer-making supplies room.
Dried malt is a great bait for the live traps, in case you're interested:-)
> Are there any other effective and safe options for mice control, do
> those sonic devices you plug into the wall outlet to repel rodents do
> anything or are they just a scam ?
>  
I don't have any studies to back me up, but I would think if the sonic
repellents worked well, they'd be use more often. I doubt they're very
effective. I think it's like flea collars. They're still around but they
don't work worth a hoot. If they worked very well, there'd be no market
for Frontline or Advantage. The sonic products are around because enough
people buy them to keep the producers in business; but if they worked
well, we'd have no need for toxins/glue traps/snap traps/etc. As I
mentioned before, I only use live traps, so I can't tell you much about
other options. Personally, I think the glue traps are repulsive, and I
don't like the idea of breaking their neck/skull with a snap trap. Some
people say that's the quickest kill, but the idea just "gacks" me out.

Hope this helps,

Sandy, DVM
Human_And_Animal_Behaviour_Forensic_Sciences_Research_Laboratory - 14 Aug 2008 15:34 GMT
HOWEDY doctor sandy, DVM,

>> My original question was directed at Decon and not rat poison in
>> general. Is Decon probably the safest rat or mouse poison to use ?
>>
> If you must use a poison, I guess that one is OK. Personally, I use live
> traps and take the critters to a nearby park and let them loose on the
> other side of the river.

That's kindly of you, dr. sandy <{}: ~ ) >

>> Might not be ideal, but I have pretty good karma:-)

I DHOWET "karma" tally's murderin or not murderin innocent
defenseless dumb critters in your HOWES to any greater or lesser
degree than any other veterinary malpractices you inflict upon
innocent defenseless dumb critters in your veterinary malpractice.

Furthermore, in the big scheme of things *(takin reincarnation
etc. into CONsideration), it could be argued that MURDERIN
innocent defenseless dumb critters for NO VALID REASON
is actually LESS CRIMINALLY INSANE, karmically, than
unnecessarily inapupriately ignorameHOWESLY surgically
sexually mutilating and TOXIFYING for life, innocent
defenseless dumb critters for PROFIT.

<snip>

>> How fast does the DeCon generally take to either immobilize and/or
>> kill the mouse ?  My main concern would be with a mouse ingesting
>> DeCon under a house crawlspace, and then going back outside the
>> house where a cat could get it.
>
> I don't know the answer to this question.

Ahhh, the Inspired Voice of WIZEDOM, eh doc??

<snip>

>> My concern with mice is that the would eat through furnace and central
>> air conditioning plastic flex vents or eat wiring insulation.
>> How likely is this ?
>
> I don't know.

Ahhh, another Inspired Word Of Knowledge answer~!

<snip>

>> Are there any other effective and safe options for mice control, do
>> those sonic devices you plug into the wall outlet to repel rodents do
>> anything or are they just a scam ?
>>
> I don't have any studies to back me up,

You mean: "I don't know the answer to this question."

> but I would think if the sonic repellents worked well, they'd
> be use more often. I doubt they're very effective.

You mean, based on your INSPIRED WORD OF WIZEDOM, dr. sandy?

> I think it's like flea collars.

INDEED? Would that be a GUESS or INSPIRED WIZEDOM, dr. sandy?

Are you aware *(Inspirationally or otherWIZE) that sonic
repellents DERANGE animal and human behavior, dr. sandy?

> They're still around but they don't work worth a hoot.

Based upon your INSPIRED WIZEDOM given that:
"I don't have any studies to back me up," dr. sandy?

OR is that based on your GUESS, lackin any RESEARCH?

> If they worked very well, there'd be no market
> for Frontline or Advantage.

You mean the veterinary prescribed neuro toxins you SELL
to your own CASH CUSTOMERS when they come into your
veterinary malpractice seeking your INSPIRED WIZEDOM,
dr. sandy?

> The sonic products are around because enough people buy them to keep the
> producers in business; but if they worked well, we'd have no need for
> toxins/

You mean like the DEATHLY TOXINS Frontline / Advantage
etc. which you SELL in your veterinary malpractice, dr. sandy?

Perhaps there's a PROBLEM with the application of those devices?

> glue traps/snap traps/etc.

Perhaps the glue traps etc. WORK on accHOWENTA
the innocent defenseless dumb critters Inspirationally
KNOW there's a FOOD SOURCE available, dr. sandy?

> As I mentioned before, I only use live traps, so I can't tell you
> much about other options. Personally, I think the glue traps are
> repulsive, and I don't like the idea of breaking their neck/skull with a
> snap trap. Some people say that's the quickest kill, but the idea just
> "gacks" me out.

You mean, bein that you're DEADicated to SAVIN inocent
defenseless dumb critter's LIVES, for profit, of curse, dr. sandy?

> Hope this helps,

No, it didn't heelp much at all, dr. sandy.

Perhaps you should seek another INPIRATION, dr. sandy?

OR

Perhaps you should seek some SCIENTIFIC STUDIES
to BACK UP your Inspired Word of Knowledge?

> Sandy, DVM

Here's the PROBLEMO, dr. sandy. There AIN'T NO
valid SCIENTIFIC STUDIES regardin ultrasonic critter
repellents on accHOWENTA the "scientists" understandin
of the SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR is FLAWED, thereby
invalidating their "research".

What the "SCIENTISTS" from FDA *and* the sonic repellent
manufacturer's FAILED to understand is that for a REPELLENT
to work the innocent defenseless dumb critter MUST NOT KNOW
*(Inspirationally or otherWIZE), that there is a FOOD SOURCE
available in the repellent protected areas ***AND*** there MUST
BE an alternative FOOD SOURCE available.

IOW, a THIEF *(not of the veterinary malpracticioner persuasion)
will not likely break into a protected wareHOWES UNLESS he
KNOWS *(Inspirationally or otherWIZE) that the booty will be
WORTH the risk / discomfort of the deterrents *(kinda like a
cheatin spHOWES) <{}: ~ ) >

Here's a TEST I've personally done with an ultrasonic
mosquito repellent: We turned on the pool lights and
went HOWET at night to set at the swimmin pool. In
just a few minutes the skeeters was swarmin so I turned
on the ultrasonic skeeter repeller.

OF CURSE IT DIDN'T WORK.

The skeeters KNEW there was FOOD available an they
was willin to DIE to get to it, just like any rat or thief
*(veterinary malpracticioner's not withstanding).

So, we went back inside and shut off the lights an waited
a half HOWER for the skeeters to find other interests. THEN
I set the ultrasonic skeeter repeller HOWET at poolside IN
THE DARK an turned it on PRYOR to turnin on the lights
an comin back to the pool to ENJOY the evenin SANS
mosquitoes <{}: ~ ) >

Perhaps you should seek a Inspired Word Of Knowledge
from some NEW resources less grHOWENDED in the
physical plane of cash an carry EXXXISTENCE, dr. sandy?:

Welcome to The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely
Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master Puppy, Child,
Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey, SpHOWES, And Horsey
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
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Insanely Simply Amazing, Majestic Grand Master
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy, Goat, Ferret, Monkey,
SpHOWES, And Horsey Wizard, Director Of
Trainin an Research <{}'; ~ ) >

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problems and protection <{}: ~ ) >

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And Horsey Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
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                   ANY QUESTIONS, People?

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